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Anecdotal Observations on Re-opening where YOU live

Paradoxical said:
Fools shrug the truth off as a conspiracy theory so they can maintain their lies.
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Not really. There's just no credence in your assumptions because you provide no evidence to your claims. Sweden has not mandated masks, but people use them to some degree; plus they have been social distancing. They also have the benefit of a largely compliant citizenry; something we do not thanks to the "freedumb" folks. When you start using the "sheep" nonsense, it's easy to see you don't have a serious point to make.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Not really. There's just no credence in your assumptions because you provide no evidence to your claims. Sweden has not mandated masks, but people use them to some degree; plus they have been social distancing. They also have the benefit of a largely compliant citizenry; something we do not thanks to the "freedumb" folks. When you start using the "sheep" nonsense, it's easy to see you don't have a serious point to make.
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Do you know that there is some talk that Sweden has achieved immunity?
 
ElChupacabra said:
Yes, it's been increasing for a while now; driven in part by the fact many companies and industries now consist of technology driven work. Companies with an international presence or which have outsourced some of their work to foreign workers have had to build the infrastructure to accommodate this work style. Then, of course, the move to cloud computing makes things even easier. My employer is a large international company, so I've seen these things change over the years. Most of the software developers work out of India and Eastern Europe, and the need for travel by executives has pushed the need to have access to their software.

In my experience, productivity rising isn't surprising. I've always found the idea that working remotely somehow meant people would just slack off, but I haven't found that to be the case even before the pandemic. It's all about how people are managed and the implementation of tools to track productivity so one can hold people accountable. For me, the challenge of working from home is knowing when to call it a day. When your home is your office, there's a tendency to check emails, spend an hour or two on a project I'm working on etc. well beyond the hours for which I'm compensated; you have to build discipline on managing your time.

The real benefit is having flexibility and more time with your family (if you have one). The tasks you normally found difficult to do because you didn't have the time, are now possible. The two hours a day I don't spend commuting are there for me to exercise and spend with my wife and daughter. Local errands can be scheduled during lunch etc. I've found these conveniences an improvement to my quality of life, and has not affected my productivity in the slightest. My day is spent in meetings and when I'm not in those, I'm working on reaching my deadlines. I think how some view work is still based on the old factory mentality where people have to have supervisors watching their every move. For those working remotely, we're professionals being compensated well to deliver results, so our reputations and career growth are tied to our productivity.
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Interesting. Companies Start to Think Remote Work Isn’t So Great After All - WSJ

Not all people or companies are finding wide scale, long term work from home sustainable. I can see how it is a great option for many people and many jobs, but the challenges are real, it seems.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Yes, it's been increasing for a while now; driven in part by the fact many companies and industries now consist of technology driven work. Companies with an international presence or which have outsourced some of their work to foreign workers have had to build the infrastructure to accommodate this work style. Then, of course, the move to cloud computing makes things even easier. My employer is a large international company, so I've seen these things change over the years. Most of the software developers work out of India and Eastern Europe, and the need for travel by executives has pushed the need to have access to their software.

In my experience, productivity rising isn't surprising. I've always found the idea that working remotely somehow meant people would just slack off, but I haven't found that to be the case even before the pandemic. It's all about how people are managed and the implementation of tools to track productivity so one can hold people accountable. For me, the challenge of working from home is knowing when to call it a day. When your home is your office, there's a tendency to check emails, spend an hour or two on a project I'm working on etc. well beyond the hours for which I'm compensated; you have to build discipline on managing your time.

The real benefit is having flexibility and more time with your family (if you have one). The tasks you normally found difficult to do because you didn't have the time, are now possible. The two hours a day I don't spend commuting are there for me to exercise and spend with my wife and daughter. Local errands can be scheduled during lunch etc. I've found these conveniences an improvement to my quality of life, and has not affected my productivity in the slightest. My day is spent in meetings and when I'm not in those, I'm working on reaching my deadlines. I think how some view work is still based on the old factory mentality where people have to have supervisors watching their every move. For those working remotely, we're professionals being compensated well to deliver results, so our reputations and career growth are tied to our productivity.
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Your work habits sound similar to those I used to employ.

For lack of a better term, I often used the term "hourly mentality" meaning that the worker does not start until the horn or the bell is sounded. Stops for the same reason.

Salaried or commission types seem like sharks. Never stop swimming and act when the opportunity presents itself or is created.

Problem solvers are working the problems, beating the deadlines, building their teams around the clock and often, even when sleeping, as they dream about their boss's or direct reports' actions and words.

I don't remember a time when my team or members of it got together that there was NOT a spontaneous business out break.

Looking back now, I have to blame my embarrassingly bad golf scores on split concentration as we were talking about business while I was 4-putting a green. I think that what is known as "My Truth". ;)
 
code1211 said:
Facts seem to give Democrat-Socialists a real problem.
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I hope you're right and I'm wrong. I guess we'll know in two months if millions of doses of a vaccine is distributed. I'm not sure how that could be accomplished when zero have been delivered as of today. They would need to start shipping 1.5 Million doses every day, beginning today, to hit that benchmark. If we wait two weeks until September 1st, that number rises to 2 million a day, every single day, to reach that goal. Which vaccine is this, anyway?
 
What if...? said:
Actually, the percentage that end up in the hospital and the percentage of those who die are the relevant numbers here. Case numbers only point to spread.

And then there's the focus on deaths only, ignoring the horrid, suffocating illness most survive, and the lasting/permanent damage they suffer.

When one is suffocating, their body thinks that it is dying. And that's a ****ed up way to spend weeks.
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The deaths are tragedies. The suffering is real.

Finding a statistic that reflects the efforts to control problem(s) is what I was addressing.

Deaths are what they are. The methodologies used to classify deaths as Covid-deaths seem to be unchanged throughout the pandemic. It is a consistently tracked statistic.

With the changing levels of testing, both the cases and the spread, as they are tracked by the changed testing, will change even if there is not a change in the reality on the ground.
 
What if...? said:
It doesn't target anyone. It spreads merrily through the groups who don't die as much. But ultimately that's where the vulnerable get it from.

And without looking I'm going to say influenza also impacts the elderly and infirm more than the young.
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I have looked at this. You're right if we measure the death rates. The two illnesses seem to claim fatalities at about the same rates according to the various age groups.

Taking it one step further, both seem to claim fatalities sorted by age group at very similar rates sorted by age groups.

In both cases, these rates are very close the rates resulting from to all other causes of death. Covid deaths and death from all other causes sort at about the same percentages for age groups.

Deaths from all factors hit about 92.1% in the age group older than 60 years. This is almost identical to Covid in Indiana which is currently right at 92%.

Both Covid and the Flu seem to kill those that already weakened by some other factors.
 
Metric Mouse said:
Interesting. Companies Start to Think Remote Work Isn’t So Great After All - WSJ

Not all people or companies are finding wide scale, long term work from home sustainable. I can see how it is a great option for many people and many jobs, but the challenges are real, it seems.
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Yeah, it's not going to be a perfect fit for every company. As I mentioned in my prior comment, companies that already have established processes for remote workers will be able too scale and onboard workers. So if you're a tech company that's using project management tools and apps to handle your remote teams, getting others to follow suit isn't as daunting as if you have to build from scratch. There's a discipline that's required as well, and that's another issue that tends to pop up; but slackers are slackers, so it's up to management to implement measures to keep people on point.
 
ElChupacabra said:
There is talk that there are advanced civilizations in space too. What matters is the evidence to support it.
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You could Google it. Or, you could tell me the reason their death rate has plummeted. Will you do either? Nope.
 
ElChupacabra said:
You're the one making the point. Notice that when I mention something, I cite the source.
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I cited the source of no or minimal deaths in Sweden and you know it.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Oh we're back to that again? You never responded with anything substantive other than your opinion.
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I posted that the death rate in Sweden is near zero and suggested it is due to herd immunity and asked others to come up with an alternative explanation.

The same thing with the four states that have the highest death rates now have minimal deaths. I get crickets. You guys run away or say "It's the MASKS! It's the masks!" forgetting that every state is wearing them and that Sweden isn't.

The logic and critical thinking is just not in evidence on these boards. One guy suggested that people who don't get COVID if in the same room with a COVID carrier are just lucky.
 
Grand Mal said:
Do you know that Sweden has failed miserably judged against their neighbours Norway and Finland?

Deaths per million
Norway- 48
Finland- 60
Sweden- 573

Deaths last 24 hour period
Norway- 1
Finland- 0
Sweden- 6

Coronavirus Update (Live): 22,271,633 Cases and 782,830 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
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I am aware that their death rate WAS higher. I posted to that effect. Now, without a shutdown and no masks, there's has basically stopped while mask wearing, shut down America is still going strong. And when I ask your tribe why? I get crickets.
 
Paradoxical said:
I am aware that their death rate WAS higher. I posted to that effect. Now, without a shutdown and no masks, there's has basically stopped while mask wearing, shut down America is still going strong. And when I ask your tribe why? I get crickets.
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Why was there only one Covid death in Norway and none in Finland in the past 24 hour period and 6 in Sweden if Sweden has achieved immunity? In that same period Sweden shows 173 new cases, Norway 55 and Finland 21.
Wanna compare the USA to Canada?
 
Grand Mal said:
Why was there only one Covid death in Norway and none in Finland in the past 24 hour period and 6 in Sweden if Sweden has achieved immunity? In that same period Sweden shows 173 new cases, Norway 55 and Finland 21.
Wanna compare the USA to Canada?
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I don't CARE what those other countries are doing and you bringing it up is a standard diversionary tactic to allow you to avoid the question. I submit that Sweden has gained immunity. No masks, No shutdown No ruination of lives now or the decades to come.
 
Paradoxical said:
I posted that the death rate in Sweden is near zero and suggested it is due to herd immunity and asked others to come up with an alternative explanation.

The same thing with the four states that have the highest death rates now have minimal deaths. I get crickets. You guys run away or say "It's the MASKS! It's the masks!" forgetting that every state is wearing them and that Sweden isn't.

The logic and critical thinking is just not in evidence on these boards. One guy suggested that people who don't get COVID if in the same room with a COVID carrier are just lucky.
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Now if you were applying logic and critical thinking, then you'd have to respond to the counterpoints I made to this conclusion you've posited. I have repeated numerous times that it is not just masks, but a combination of measures which include social distancing. There's been social distancing in place in both the US northeast and in Sweden; the difference in the latter is they haven't mandated it but people are practicing on their own. The thing to consider with death rates is the demographic of the impacted groups and the fact we have better treatment methods than we did when this first started.
 
Paradoxical said:
I don't CARE what those other countries are doing and you bringing it up is a standard diversionary tactic to allow you to avoid the question. I submit that Sweden has gained immunity. No masks, No shutdown No ruination of lives now or the decades to come.
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See, if you actually read before you replied instead of trying to find new ways to say the same bull**** you would have noticed that Sweden couldn't have possibly have 'gained immunity' if they still put up daily new cases and daily new deaths.
 
Coming home from an appointment this morning I decided to take a different route. On a back street of mostly light industry there it was: a blue, standalone mail drop box. The paint was a little faded and there was some trash underneath. I pulled over and checked it out. The dropslot had spiderwebs weaved back and forth. The hinged door opened with a little force and a load squeak. The little card in the plastic window was weathered and damaged beyond recognition.

As I got back in my car I couldn't help but think - The result of the election may depend on what is dropped into that box. :cool:
 
We've been relatively fortunate here in the far South West of England; only 14,000 recorded cases from a population of around 5 million, and 1,200 fatalities. Folk have been largely behaving themselves and adhering to lockdown regulations. One issue has been the seasonal influx of vacationers from other parts of the country, post-lockdown easing, who crowded our beaches, unprotected. Locals have been staying well clear of them. We must still wear masks on public transport, including taxis, and in stores. No mask, no entry, no exceptions.

No coronavirus deaths recorded across the entire South West in last 24 hours - Somerset Live

First COVID-19 death at Royal Devon and Exeter Hospital in exactly a month - Devon Live
 
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ElChupacabra said:
Now if you were applying logic and critical thinking, then you'd have to respond to the counterpoints I made to this conclusion you've posited. I have repeated numerous times that it is not just masks, but a combination of measures which include social distancing. There's been social distancing in place in both the US northeast and in Sweden; the difference in the latter is they haven't mandated it but people are practicing on their own. The thing to consider with death rates is the demographic of the impacted groups and the fact we have better treatment methods than we did when this first started.
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So, now you are saying the Swedes stayed 6 feet apart from one another while in the parks, on the streets and in the restaurants? May I see this evidence?

Even if that were true, and the pictures I saw show that it is false, then the mask theory is STILL wrong.

I don't know what it is with your group, or why you refuse to use common sense. Sweden HAD a relatively high death rate compared to similar countries. I have admitted this and even brought it up in a post as it was higher than the United States, at least at one point. The gap is now closing somewhat because COVID is now infecting and killing people in areas that were relatively unscathed before in America. 574 per million for Sweden and 529 for the United States.

Now go look at the chart for New York, New Jersey, Mass and Connecticut, who were formerly some of the highest death rates per million in the entire world or anywhere between 1200 to 1800 per million and their death rate gas dropped like a rock in a pool to near nothing. We can't bury our heads in the sand and say it's the masks because every state has been wearing masks just like those four states and yet now the OTHER states are seeing major increases. The people in the four states mentioned were getting infected and dying long after they started wearing masks in almost identical numbers to Sweden which did not wear masks.We need to look at immunity and how it works and we are clueless. The medical professionals and science are still in the dark as to how ity works. I said early on and still say that millions have or had COVID and just don't know it because they were either not in poor health to begin with or for whatever reason(s) their chemical makeup was such that the virus just did not enter their bodies. We as a race just don't have the answers to this.

Here is a new story.

Coronavirus outbreak on Seattle fishing boat may offer insight into immunity | Fox News

While 104 of the 120 crew members would test positive for the coronavirus -- the three who had neutralizing antibodies beforehand didn't become infected...........While 104 of the 120 crew members would test positive for the coronavirus -- the three who had neutralizing antibodies beforehand didn't become infected...........Greninger said that the 15 other crew members who never became infected possibly had jobs on the boat that protected them from exposure
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So we had three people in close quarters who had COVID before and did NOT get it. The important thing to note, though, is the other 15 crew members who did not get and never had it before. Even though the article speculates that they "possibly" had jobs that protected them. I don't see ANY research they did on that and that is the most important thing of all they should research. Why didn't THOSE 15 people become infected? Where were they all the time? I suggest that those 15 have a barrier of some sort that just stops the virus from even entering their bodies. No one knows this.

It appears that some just do not get this virus. Like the Spanish flu, not all ever even got it. Not all that do will die. We are flying ny the seats of our pants with a lack of knowledge and humans think living in a bubble will protect them. When we do that, the next time something comes around our immune system will be shot from lack of use and we WILL all die. That should scare the crap out of the readers here. Like the Martians who invaded earth and hadn't ever been exposed to germs and viruses, humans will be dying in the streets.
 
Grand Mal said:
See, if you actually read before you replied instead of trying to find new ways to say the same bull**** you would have noticed that Sweden couldn't have possibly have 'gained immunity' if they still put up daily new cases and daily new deaths.
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Holdovers
 
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