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And public schools are USELESS?

Stace said:
But make no mistake, private school students can fail just as miserably as public school students....it's all in their attitude.


You've got me thinking here... (SOMEBODY GET A FIRE EXTINGUISHER!):mrgreen:

Private school students do better because mommy and daddy have to
write that check every month. Motivation (read: pressure) is applied
from home every time they have to pull out that checkbook. The public
system, one I blame for failing (probably misguided on my part), is
funded by the same public. A public which does not provide direct
funding to the system.

It's oft' been said that politicians would be held more accountable to their
constituency if the constituency had to pull out their collective checkbooks
every month and write a check to the taxman. Maybe the answer
lies in billing parents monthly for the "privilege" of going to a public
school. Think motivation would improve? I would venture a guess that
this system would improve scores, motivation, decrease truancy, in
essence -- succeed!

By billing parents the kids would have to answer to the parents. The
parents would provide funding directly to the board. The board would
would approve curriculum and disburse funds. The teachers would
provide the environment and knowledge. The kids would provide the
ears and brains. The federal government would provide.... oh, that's
right - nothing.:spin:

Under my system you'd see PlayStation and GameBoy go bankrupt.
 
XShipRider said:
You've got me thinking here... (SOMEBODY GET A FIRE EXTINGUISHER!):mrgreen:

Private school students do better because mommy and daddy have to
write that check every month. Motivation (read: pressure) is applied
from home every time they have to pull out that checkbook. The public
system, one I blame for failing (probably misguided on my part), is
funded by the same public. A public which does not provide direct
funding to the system.

It's oft' been said that politicians would be held more accountable to their
constituency if the constituency had to pull out their collective checkbooks
every month and write a check to the taxman. Maybe the answer
lies in billing parents monthly for the "privilege" of going to a public
school. Think motivation would improve? I would venture a guess that
this system would improve scores, motivation, decrease truancy, in
essence -- succeed!

By billing parents the kids would have to answer to the parents. The
parents would provide funding directly to the board. The board would
would approve curriculum and disburse funds. The teachers would
provide the environment and knowledge. The kids would provide the
ears and brains. The federal government would provide.... oh, that's
right - nothing.:spin:

Under my system you'd see PlayStation and GameBoy go bankrupt.

You have a point. What is applied at school must also be applied at home as well. You can't act like an animal at home and be expected to act like an angel at school. Teachers and parents need to work together and instill the same set of rules and principles in the child. It should not solely be the teachers responsibilty to make a child behave and learn. The majority of that should lie on the parents. With having said that, it would make the teacher's job much easier if the parents would do their job at home.
 
alphieb said:
You have a point. What is applied at school must also be applied at home as well. You can't act like an animal at home and be expected to act like an angel at school. Teachers and parents need to work together and instill the same set of rules and principles in the child. It should not solely be the teachers responsibilty to make a child behave and learn. The majority of that should lie on the parents. With having said that, it would make the teacher's job much easier if the parents would do their job at home.
AMEN TO THAT....except that I think the teacher shouldn't have to do much at all in that area.
It is the parents job to deliver to the school a child that is ready and willing to learn. No amount of teacher/school effort can always overcome the damage that some parents do to their children.
If a child is not there to learn, he should be sent home until he is.
My wife has been teaching 27 years, and this is her last year. She has one 14 year old who is her first, and last, lost cause. I expect to see his name, and his little brother's name, in the newspaper one of these days, being arrested, and then his parents will be blaming the system for not helping them undo all the damage they have done.
None of our children deserve to be left behind, but it happens more often because of bad parenting than bad teaching.
 
UtahBill said:
AMEN TO THAT....except that I think the teacher shouldn't have to do much at all in that area.
It is the parents job to deliver to the school a child that is ready and willing to learn. No amount of teacher/school effort can always overcome the damage that some parents do to their children.
If a child is not there to learn, he should be sent home until he is.
My wife has been teaching 27 years, and this is her last year. She has one 14 year old who is her first, and last, lost cause. I expect to see his name, and his little brother's name, in the newspaper one of these days, being arrested, and then his parents will be blaming the system for not helping them undo all the damage they have done.
None of our children deserve to be left behind, but it happens more often because of bad parenting than bad teaching.

Of course, I agree totally with that. By working together, I mean when a child gets punished at school, the teacher should notify the parent so the child can be punished at home too. When my child is in trouble at school, I told his teacher to notify me so that he can be punished at home as well. I received two notes from her, the second time, he was punished a lot longer. So far no notes in several months. It is my job to mold him at home.
 
alphieb said:
Of course, I agree totally with that. By working together, I mean when a child gets punished at school, the teacher should notify the parent so the child can be punished at home too. When my child is in trouble at school, I told his teacher to notify me so that he can be punished at home as well. I received two notes from her, the second time, he was punished a lot longer. So far no notes in several months. It is my job to mold him at home.
We need more good mommies like you!!!!
 
XShipRider said:
You've got me thinking here... (SOMEBODY GET A FIRE EXTINGUISHER!):mrgreen:

Private school students do better because mommy and daddy have to
write that check every month. Motivation (read: pressure) is applied
from home every time they have to pull out that checkbook. The public
system, one I blame for failing (probably misguided on my part), is
funded by the same public. A public which does not provide direct
funding to the system.

It's oft' been said that politicians would be held more accountable to their
constituency if the constituency had to pull out their collective checkbooks
every month and write a check to the taxman. Maybe the answer
lies in billing parents monthly for the "privilege" of going to a public
school. Think motivation would improve? I would venture a guess that
this system would improve scores, motivation, decrease truancy, in
essence -- succeed!

By billing parents the kids would have to answer to the parents. The
parents would provide funding directly to the board. The board would
would approve curriculum and disburse funds. The teachers would
provide the environment and knowledge. The kids would provide the
ears and brains. The federal government would provide.... oh, that's
right - nothing.:spin:

Under my system you'd see PlayStation and GameBoy go bankrupt.


Private V. Public Schools

Remember Jack Nicholson's great line in, A Few Good Men? "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth?" Just kidding, . . . . . . . . . maybe?

The real difference has nothing to do with how things are funded. (1.) When a parent makes a decision to pay private school costs they likely care about their kids education with something more that lip service! (2.) Private schools do not always do better than public schools. A well watered myth! The public school I taught at had better test scores than any of the local private schools because of the parents and the kids in that school (65% Asian American). It has little to do with private or public, but rather the attitude of the parents and the attitude they instill in their kids! (3.) In lower economic areas private schools can pick and choose students as the wish and not provide for kids with special problems or bad attitudes. Any public school could raise their scores if they got to play by private school rules! I went to a Catholic school and the school told parents to shape up their kids attitude or put in him in the public school! Most private school parents support the school. Not always so with public school parents! Also many private school's cook the books as to their student achievement and problems. I had a student with a poor attitude that was behind grade level in reading by testing. He was transferred to a private school and grew two years in reading development in one year. Due to poor behavior he came back to my public school the next year and tested a year behind in reading! Whoops! Draw your own conclusions! Many of my students returned to visit me from "Drug Free" private high schools and told me it was a joke! Private schools and students learn quickly the proper role to play! Public schools are a little more honest about problems because they aren't getting checks every month from parents! They can be! Without tenure many teachers would be afraid to be honest. Private school teachers have to think about their jobs when they speak! What private school is going to say we have a serious problem with drugs in our school, but you son will love it here! I've heard private schools deny drug problems when I could list some of the kids well known to be using and distributing them! It just wasn't good advertising to be honest! All schools have problems, because our culture has problems!
 
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Mr. D said:
Private V. Public Schools

Remember Jack Nicholson's great line in, A Few Good Men? "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth?" Just kidding, . . . . . . . . . maybe?

The real difference has nothing to do with how things are funded. (1.) When a parent makes a decision to pay private school costs they likely care about their kids education with something more that lip service! (2.) Private schools do not always do better than public schools. A well watered myth! The public school I taught at had better test scores than any of the local private schools because of the parents and the kids in that school (65% Asian American). It has little to do with private or public, but rather the attitude of the parents and the attitude they instill in their kids! (3.) In lower economic areas private schools can pick and choose students as the wish and not provide for kids with special problems or bad attitudes. Any public school could raise their scores if they got to play by private school rules! I went to a Catholic school and the school told parents to shape up their kids attitude or put in him in the public school! Most private school parents support the school. Not always so with public school parents! Also many private school's cook the books as to their student achievement and problems. I had a student with a poor attitude that was behind grade level in reading by testing. He was transferred to a private school and grew two years in reading development in one year. Due to poor behavior he came back to my public school the next year and tested a year behind in reading! Whoops! Draw your own conclusions! Many of my students returned to visit me from "Drug Free" private high schools and told me it was a joke! Private schools and students learn quickly the proper role to play! Public schools are a little more honest about problems because they aren't getting checks every month from parents! They can be! Without tenure many teachers would be afraid to be honest. Private school teachers have to think about their jobs when they speak! What private school is going to say we have a serious problem with drugs in our school, but you son will love it here! I've heard private schools deny drug problems when I could list some of the kids well known to be using and distributing them! It just wasn't good advertising to be honest! All schools have problems, because our culture has problems!

We are in agreement with the "attitude" adjustment necessary from
parents. Apathy is like a disease, in this case hereditary.

I'm not sure who mentioned drug problems, I don't think I did.

One of the problems recently encountered in Ohio (others too, I don't know)
is the integration of special education students (read: students with
disabilities either mental or physical) into the regular classroom. This had
the detrimental effect of slowing the pace of the class to the lowest
common denominator, the special needs student(s). When we inquired at
a board meeting why this was the case we were told this is now dictated
by law as special education classes were deemed discriminatory.

P.S. Both my kids are in the public system. I count my blessings because
our school is a high performing school, well funded and parents are involved.
The PTA is strong and active in this community.
 
XShipRider said:
One of the problems recently encountered in Ohio (others too, I don't know)
is the integration of special education students (read: students with
disabilities either mental or physical) into the regular classroom. This had
the detrimental effect of slowing the pace of the class to the lowest
common denominator, the special needs student(s). When we inquired at
a board meeting why this was the case we were told this is now dictated
by law as special education classes were deemed discriminatory.

P.S. Both my kids are in the public system. I count my blessings because
our school is a high performing school, well funded and parents are involved.
The PTA is strong and active in this community.

That doesn't have to be that way. Usually if special ed kids need that much extra help an aid, special materials, and equipment are provided to work directly with the special ed kids. The concept is that special ed kids learn far more and adjust to the world better through normal class interaction than being separated out. It should never bring down the level of the teaching, but it can be extra work for the teacher. My view is that special ed. kids need to be in the regular classroom, but funding for aids and materials have to be provided to make it work so as not to slow down the progress of the class! If teachers don't get that support they need to let parents know and all scream together! I've had blind kids and kids who spoke limited english in my classes and it can be made to work. One of the best resources are the other kids in the classroom. It reinforces their learning, builds character and teaches them great social skills to help another kid along!

Students are a much wasted resource in our educational system. If I ran a school, kids would do most of what was needed around the school as part of their "whole" education! We greatly under estimate what children can do when properly supervised and given real responsibility. Years ago children where necessary contributers to our society! Then we placed them above all other humans to their harm! Valuing all humans equally is the goal, not valuing children above adults! It spoils and weakens them, and someday they will have to be lowered to adult status! It will be a shock some will not recover from!
 
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