UtahBill said:
No, I don't admit that government is the problem, but acknowledge that no government is perfect since imperfect beings are running it. Some forms of government are certainly less perfect than others. It is not a given that government begets tyranny. Perhaps you can tell us how our republic tyrannizes you?
It is my experience that a libertarian can have intellect, but typically doesn't use it very well. The ability to do that comes with age and experience. Then it is called wisdom. On the path to wisdom, it is the journey that is most important, because we can never know if or when we have reached the destination. That does not matter to anarchists, Utopians, or even extreme left/right democrats/republicans. People with closed minds who stubbornly cling to their own ideas in the face of the collective better judgemen ts of the rest of the world will never gain wisdom. They aren't even on the path.
I suppose you can name a few well known persons, tho, who are exceptions to that concept? Or perhaps an example of a successful anarchy in the history of the world?
I would submit to you, that the "collective better judgement" has not been manifestly expressed, rather institutions of power of have been merely tolerated.
Furthermore, discuss with me, about my ideas, not mythical people you make up to pretend to make a point. My mind is one that would hardly be closed, at least not anymore. It's Receptive and active. I used to hold the same false beliefs that Man cannot exist without the state, and the state served as benevolant benefactor to Humanity. I even used to be a Marxist Socialist. Then some people argued their points, I did some reading, and came to another conclusion: Volitional cooperations makes civilizations, not thugs with guns. Thugs with guns destroy civilizations. The groups, with the most thugs and guns are States. The People working together to achieve their own personal ends has given us never before seen wealth and prosperity that would make kings or emperors of a few short centuries ago jealous. More often than not, people have done these things IN SPITE of the state.
The Enlightenment, Industrial Age, and Scientific revolution were brought about AGAINST the will of State (or varient/ally Church). When human ingenuity tore itself from the shackles of Kings and Tyrants, the World exploded with productivity, wealth, health and prosperity never before imagined.
Prior to the French Revolution, French weavers would not work, until the recieved explicit orders from the king, what threadcount should be made for what fabric. They were fined or imprisoned if they worked without such explicit orders. Hamurabi's Code, the oft heralded first laws of the land, devistated the markets of Babylon because the state tried to determine that prices of all goods by fiat. American's have an obesity problem, due in fair part to the US government Subsidy of corn.
The history of the state has NOT BEEN, as some would suggest, benevolence and egalitarianism. It has been a history of interference, repression, violence and war.
There is no doubt, that a state CAN do good things. Often however, these good things, are what people have done, would do, or would continue to do for themselves anyway. The State just charges more, because they can arrest and imprison those that don't pay.
Have you noticed the parelles yet between Organized crime, and the state? Taxation=Protection money. If you don't pay, you suffer harm at the hands of the person claiming to be your protector.
People tell libertarians and Anarchists all the time, that we need the government to lock up the bad guys (while not serving justice in the process). How many bad guys are there? ~1% of the American Male Population (according the the DOJ) has served 1 year or more in prison, or is currently doing so. Bear in mind, as many as 1/2 of people in prisons now are there for non-violent crimes. So one may say 1/2 of 1% of the American Male population is "bad men." it's much lower for women, virtually negligable when accounting for only the violent portion.
So, the bad people may make up what? Between 1/4 of 1% to 1/2 of 1% of the American Population. That's 0.25% to 0.5%.
We have so few really bad people in this country, and world, is it really necessary to spend 40% of GDP on Federal, State and Local for protection, roads, Education, and income assistance?
I don't ask at once for perfect government, (in fact I never ask that, I know it's a myth, even though statists tell me that all good comes from government), I ask at once for better government.
Anarchy is the ideal, and maybe never achievable, but it's the GOAL to strive for. Just because there are a bunch of weak-hearted, irresponsible, nay-sayers does not deter me from working to improve the world, as little as I can.
One more thing, don't pretend just because one's old, means one is wise. You seem reasonable, as much as can be expected, but you're not special or unique in the quality of your professed wisdom.
Furthermore, a truly wise man would note how uncollected the collective world is.
I have some suggested reading for you:
For a New Liberty: the Libertarian Manifesto by Murray Rothbard. A fairly short book on some anarcho-capitalist ideas.
The Discovery of Freedom by Rose Wilder Lane. Grand-daughter of Laura Ingles Wilder, and exceedingly wise woman in her study of HIstory and Humanity.
Human Action by Ludwig von Mises. A challenging treatise on economics by the Single most Wise and Intelligent Author I have every encountered (next to Shakespear for his, but without the Literary flair, and maybe DaVinci for his intellect). Why not try it, it's free. A free treatise on
Human Action , what a great gift to the world.
Also, might I suggest the two link in my signature.
Human Action , and economics in general, are tremendous ways to undertake the study of ALL humanity.
Since you're retired, you have some time to spare. Hell, I'm not retired and I have that time to spare. Just use your time wisely, open your mind, and have a whirl.
