An unprecedented night at the RNC... for possible Hatch Act violations

[ALiberalModerate]

Thanks, I was not aware wallace did that. It however in my mind does not excuse the racism in him.

Of course it doesn't.

 

[Torus34]

There was a time, early days, when President of the United States of America Donald Trump could comment about the 'swamp' in Washington and even lay the blame for its existence upon the previous administration. Those days are long gone. Whatever swamp exists, and the record of it appears to be a long and growing list of President Trump associates and appointees who have run afoul of the law, it now belongs to President Trump. He's had over three and a half years to clean things up.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

 

[cpwill]

FDR should not have done this, and this does not in any way excuse Trump's unlawful behavior.

No amount of whataboutism can explain away or defend Trump's actions, or anyone's actions for that matter. It's wrong no matter who does it.

It's wrong. Case closed. End of story. Deal with it and accept it.

And if you are going to apologize for, and defend, Trump's continual violations of the law be prepared for people to describe you personally as a bad person who supports a crook. It's not okay. It's wrong. And none of us should go around pretending that things Trump supporters are doing to defend Trump is okay. It's not. The lies should be condemned. The whatboutisms should be condemned. The excuse-making and blatant ignoring of the laws should be condemned. None of this is normal, acceptable, appropriate behavior for a citizen who loves their country. It's more about making liberals eat **** and trolling the media, and so on and so forth. And it's really really sad.

While I'm regularly the guy pointing out that a thing is wrong regardless of who does it, it does make the hyperventilating seem rather partisan and hollow when none of y'all reacted like this to Obama in 2012, but want Trump's fans to do so now.

 

[Oborosen]

I notice no one had posted about this. I am not surprised. It is really hard to keep up with the Trump administration's breathtaking violations of the law.

First Thing: an unprecedented night at the RNC – for possible Hatch Act violations | US news | The Guardian

Legal observers said the second night of the RNC may have flouted laws that prevent federal employees from taking part in political activity while on duty.



The bottom line is that Trump, his political allies, and his supporters do not care about the law.

That's going to be one hell of a trick to actually prove for the democrats and it's not like they haven't failed at these kind of things in the past.

Then again, if they do set some sort of precedent. Then that allows the republicans to go back over everything that was done for the DNC and then file the same claim if they want.

 

[Oborosen]

Black unemployment rates went down under George Wallace in Alabama. George Wallace was also the first southern governor to provide blacks with free textbooks. Does anyone remember George Wallace for either of those things? Of course not, as he should be, George Wallace is remembered as a champion of racism and Trump will be remembered as one as well.

Sorry to burst your bubble on that little dream. But your lot has repeatedly failed at making that a reality, time and time again.

Then again, we can just as easily surmise that Biden is going to be remembered as the champion of rapist. If playing by your rules is still an option that's on the table.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

While I'm regularly the guy pointing out that a thing is wrong regardless of who does it, it does make the hyperventilating seem rather partisan and hollow when none of y'all reacted like this to Obama in 2012, but want Trump's fans to do so now.

1. I can't keep track of every whataboutism, gotcha, and alleged misdeed Obama-haters like to point out. So what is it that happened in 2012 are you referring to? Also, how long are we going to play this game where Obama-haters use some sort of event, like Obama picking his nose, to justify the most outrageous and illegal behavior on the part of Trump.

2. You use the phrase hyperventilating...I don't understand this phrase. How much of the Republic, how much of the Constitution, how much of our laws are Trump supporters willing to destroy to get what they want? Apparently, based on the things Trump supporters have said over the past few years...everything.

Well, not me... I'm not going there.

I care.

I care about our Republic.

And it's a problem when the President routinely breaks the law and violates the Constitution.

 

[madman]

Well that was helpful. Not at all trolling or flamebaiting.

hits a bit close to home, eh?

 

[Noodlegawd]

I notice no one had posted about this. I am not surprised. It is really hard to keep up with the Trump administration's breathtaking violations of the law.

First Thing: an unprecedented night at the RNC – for possible Hatch Act violations | US news | The Guardian

Legal observers said the second night of the RNC may have flouted laws that prevent federal employees from taking part in political activity while on duty.



The bottom line is that Trump, his political allies, and his supporters do not care about the law.

Notably absent from this post or the link is any actual analysis of how any of this violated the Hatch Act, specifically.

But I bet you probably lost a lot of skin from wringing your hands over all the unethical speeches at 2012 DNC by:

Ken Salazar, U.S. Secretary of the Interior.
Kathleen Sebelius, U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services
Arne Duncan, U.S. Secretary of Education
Eric Shinseki, U.S. Secretary of Veteran's Affairs
Tom Vilsack, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture
Karen Mills, Administrator of the Small Business Administration

All those secretaries, I'm surprised Obama's ACTUAL secretary didn't speak.

Seriously, Trump does plenty of stuff that is worthy of legitimate criticism. But some Democrats are just too stupid to pick their battles, and can't even get out of their own way.

 

[braindrain]

1. I can't keep track of every whataboutism, gotcha, and alleged misdeed Obama-haters like to point out. So what is it that happened in 2012 are you referring to? Also, how long are we going to play this game where Obama-haters use some sort of event, like Obama picking his nose, to justify the most outrageous and illegal behavior on the part of Trump.

2. You use the phrase hyperventilating...I don't understand this phrase. How much of the Republic, how much of the Constitution, how much of our laws are Trump supporters willing to destroy to get what they want? Apparently, based on the things Trump supporters have said over the past few years...everything.

Well, not me... I'm not going there.

I care.

I care about our Republic.

And it's a problem when the President routinely breaks the law and violates the Constitution.

Yes the left was fine when Obama was doing similar things but we are supposed to pretend their outrage now has nothing to do with politics and only about the good of the country.

Sorry missy people are not that gullible.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Sorry to burst your bubble on that little dream. But your lot has repeatedly failed at making that a reality, time and time again.

Then again, we can just as easily surmise that Biden is going to be remembered as the champion of rapist. If playing by your rules is still an option that's on the table.

The author of the Violence Against Women Act will be remembered as a champion of rapists... Sure man... How many Trump accusers did you trip over on your way to make that claim?

 

[cpwill]

1. I can't keep track of every whataboutism, gotcha, and alleged misdeed Obama-haters like to point out. So what is it that happened in 2012 are you referring to?

The Obama administration had a whole series of cabinet officials address the Democratic Convention, just as Pompeo did. I would welcome being proven wrong here, but, don't recall a single individual claiming to be Very Upset about Trump admin officials addressing the RNC even mentioning that it was a problem, then.

Also, how long are we going to play this game where Obama-haters use some sort of event, like Obama picking his nose, to justify the most outrageous and illegal behavior on the part of Trump.

As I said, if something is wrong, it's wrong regardless of who does it. The point being raised here is that, if someone (or the media) don't care when "their" guy does X, but is Very Concerned or angry when the
other guy does "X", then it seems unlikely they actually care about "X", and more likely they just care about using "X" as a partisan club.

Think for a second, for example, about how seriously you take any Trump fan who claims that Joe Biden's history of making women feel uncomfortable and the accusations of sexual assault should disqualify him from being President, and that Democrats should refuse to vote for him because of it.

2. You use the phrase hyperventilating...I don't understand this phrase. How much of the Republic, how much of the Constitution, how much of our laws are Trump supporters willing to destroy to get what they want?

The Hatch Act is not in the Constitution.

Apparently, based on the things Trump supporters have said over the past few years...everything.

Well, not me... I'm not going there.

I care.

I care about our Republic.

And it's a problem when the President routinely breaks the law and violates the Constitution.

Indeed. Trying to govern via Pen And A Phone was and is a terrible thing for the Republic. Trump has continued and expanded the Imperial Presidency even further, the our detriment. But, again, if we want our critiques here to be taken seriously when you level it, we have to be willing to level it at our own team as well .

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Notably absent from this post or the link is any actual analysis of how any of this violated the Hatch Act, specifically.

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...title5-partIII-subpartF-chap73-subchapIII.pdf

Page 4:

§ 7324. Political activities on duty; prohibition

(a) An employee may not engage in political activity—

(1) while the employee is on duty;

(2) in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties by an individual employed or holding office in the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof;

(3) while wearing a uniform or official insignia identifying the office or position of the employee; or

(4) using any vehicle owned or leased by the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof.

But I bet you probably lost a lot of skin from wringing your hands over all the unethical speeches at 2012 DNC by:

Ken Salazar, U.S. Secretary of the Interior.
Kathleen Sebelius, U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services
Arne Duncan, U.S. Secretary of Education
Eric Shinseki, U.S. Secretary of Veteran's Affairs
Tom Vilsack, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture
Karen Mills, Administrator of the Small Business Administration

§ 7324. Political activities on duty; prohibition

(a) An employee may not engage in political activity—

(1) while the employee is on duty;

(2) in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties by an individual employed or holding office in the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof;

(3) while wearing a uniform or official insignia identifying the office or position of the employee; or

(4) using any vehicle owned or leased by the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof.

All those secretaries, I'm surprised Obama's ACTUAL secretary didn't speak.

I'm surprised Trump just doesn't start murdering his political opponents. Trump supporters would be okay with it.

Seriously, Trump does plenty of stuff that is worthy of legitimate criticism. But some Democrats are just too stupid to pick their battles, and can't even get out of their own way.

You're right about one thing. Democrats must pick their battles because Trump's lawbreaking is limitless and it's hard to convince people to focus on one particular criminal act if Trump is committing all sorts of crimes.

It's also hard to criticize Trump when Republicans and Trump supporters simply do not care about the law.

This idiot, this incompetent thuggish fool is using the White House as the backdrop for his convention, and you no Trump supporter has the moral clarity or the courage to call it out.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Yes the left was fine when Obama was doing similar things but we are supposed to pretend their outrage now has nothing to do with politics and only about the good of the country.

Sorry, missy, Obama did not do anything remotely similar to using the White House as a backdrop to a political convention and doing goofy things like conducting official naturalization ceremonies for new citizens.

Sorry missy people are not that gullible.

Sorry, missy...as I scan the posts by Trump supporters it appears to me that a significant portion of the population may, in fact, be that gullible.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

The Obama administration had a whole series of cabinet officials address the Democratic Convention just as Pompeo did. I would welcome being proven wrong here, but, don't recall a single individual claiming to be Very Upset about Trump admin officials addressing the RNC even mentioning that it was a problem, then.

§ 7324. Political activities on duty; prohibition

(a) An employee may not engage in political activity—

(1) while the employee is on duty;

(2) in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties by an individual employed or holding office in the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof;

(3) while wearing a uniform or official insignia identifying the office or position of the employee; or

(4) using any vehicle owned or leased by the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof.

--

The SOS position is an especially important job, one where it makes a whole lot of sense for the SOS to not appear to be partisan, and instead, to represent the Republic as a whole, especially when the SOS is in a foreign country representing the interests of the nation.

So, yes, Pompeo giving a political speech from Israel is worse than what anyone in the Obama administration did. That's just one out of multiple dozens of violations of the Hatch act the Trump administration has committed over the past few years.

As I said, if something is wrong, it's wrong regardless of who does it. The point being raised here is that, if someone (or the media) don't care when "their" guy does X, but is Very Concerned or angry when the other guy does "X", then it seems unlikely they actually care about "X", and more likely they just care about using "X" as a partisan club.

§ 7324. Political activities on duty; prohibition

(a) An employee may not engage in political activity—

(1) while the employee is on duty;

(2) in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties by an individual employed or holding office in the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof;

(3) while wearing a uniform or official insignia identifying the office or position of the employee; or

(4) using any vehicle owned or leased by the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof.

Think for a second, for example, about how seriously you take any Trump fan who claims that Joe Biden's history of making women feel uncomfortable and the accusations of sexual assault should disqualify him from being President, and that Democrats should refuse to vote for him because of it.

The big issue with the whataboutisms as it pertains to the propaganda in support of Trump that Trump supporters themselves write and spread on social media and political forums is the magnitude of the activity on Trump's part. It's like comparing someone stealing a candy bar from a 7-11 and then Trump robbing a bank or something. There are several orders of magnitude difference in Trump's behavior across a whole host of issues. And quite literally. A significant politician will lie or exaggerate maybe several times a month or something. Trump has done it over 20,000 times. There's just no contest in terms of the depravity of Trump's character and actions.

And tonight he's going to give a speech from the White House. No modern president has accepted his party’s nomination for re-election from the White House. That's wrong even if the Hatch act doesn't apply to the President. It's more messed up than any criminal violation of the Hatch Act that anyone has ever participated in since it became law even though the President himself doing it is not illegal.

The Hatch Act is not in the Constitution.

My reference to the Constitution was intended to be about Trump's continual and repeated violations and degradations of the Constitution throughout his term in office.

Indeed. Trying to govern via Pen And A Phone was and is a terrible thing for the Republic. Trump has continued and expanded the Imperial Presidency even further, the our detriment. But, again, if we want our critiques here to be taken seriously when you level it, we have to be willing to level it at our own team as well .

I have no problem criticizing the Democrats. For me to level the same sort of criticism at the Democrats you will have to find violations as grotesque and abusive as what the Trump administration has been doing. Nobody can unless they lie and exaggerate. That's the bottom line. And just repeating propaganda you heard on Tucker Carlson's show isn't good enough for me. Prior to the Trump administration, about 30% to 50% of the people I voted for during the course of my life at the local, state, and federal levels were Republicans. Now, it's going to be 100%. Why? Because Republicans have sold their soul and sold out Republic.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

That's going to be one hell of a trick to actually prove for the democrats and it's not like they haven't failed at these kind of things in the past.

Then again, if they do set some sort of precedent. Then that allows the republicans to go back over everything that was done for the DNC and then file the same claim if they want.

It's not about Democrats or Republicans in the grand scheme of things.

Do you, as an American citizen, care that the law is being broken? No matter who it is?

The answer, quite obviously, based on your response, is no.

That's the problem, and the general lack of concern on the part of citizens is the problem in the long term.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...title5-partIII-subpartF-chap73-subchapIII.pdf

Page 4:

§ 7324. Political activities on duty; prohibition

(a) An employee may not engage in political activity—

(1) while the employee is on duty;

(2) in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties by an individual employed or holding office in the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof;

(3) while wearing a uniform or official insignia identifying the office or position of the employee; or

(4) using any vehicle owned or leased by the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof.



§ 7324. Political activities on duty; prohibition

(a) An employee may not engage in political activity—

(1) while the employee is on duty;

(2) in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties by an individual employed or holding office in the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof;

(3) while wearing a uniform or official insignia identifying the office or position of the employee; or

(4) using any vehicle owned or leased by the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof.



I'm surprised Trump just doesn't start murdering his political opponents. Trump supporters would be okay with it.



You're right about one thing. Democrats must pick their battles because Trump's lawbreaking is limitless and it's hard to convince people to focus on one particular criminal act if Trump is committing all sorts of crimes.

It's also hard to criticize Trump when Republicans and Trump supporters simply do not care about the law.

This idiot, this incompetent thuggish fool is using the White House as the backdrop for his convention, and you no Trump supporter has the moral clarity or the courage to call it out.

For someone who never stops complaining about how much Trump lies, you sure are doing a good job of imitating him. Your blatant lies of omission are still lies.

(b)(1) An employee described in paragraph (2) of this subsection may engage in political activity otherwise prohibited by subsection (a) if the costs associated with that political activity are not paid for by money derived from the Treasury of the United States.

(2) Paragraph (1) applies to an employee—(A) the duties and responsibilities of whose position continue outside normal duty hours and while away from the normal duty post; and (B) who is—(i) an employee paid from an appropriation for the Executive Office of the President; or (ii) an employee appointed by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, whose position is located within the United States, who determines policies to be pursued by the United States in relations with foreign powers or in the nation-wide administration of Federal laws.

For the purpose of this subchapter—(1) ‘‘employee’’ means any individual, other than the President and the Vice President,employed or holding office in—(A) an Executive agency other than the Government Accountability Office;(B) a position within the competitive service which is not in an Executive agency; or (C) the government of the District of Columbia, other than the Mayor or a member of the City Council or the Recorder of Deeds; but does not include a member of the uni-formed services;

 

[eman623]

hits a bit close to home, eh?

Your comment is a classic trollish response when trolling is pointed out.

No, it's not hitting close to home. Not even a little bit. It's still trolling and flamebait.

 

[snakestretcher]

I notice no one had posted about this. I am not surprised. It is really hard to keep up with the Trump administration's breathtaking violations of the law.

First Thing: an unprecedented night at the RNC – for possible Hatch Act violations | US news | The Guardian

Legal observers said the second night of the RNC may have flouted laws that prevent federal employees from taking part in political activity while on duty.



The bottom line is that Trump, his political allies, and his supporters do not care about the law.

Trump has never cared about the law. He views encounters with the law as an occupational hazard.

 

[NWRatCon]

The big issue with the whataboutisms as it pertains to the propaganda in support of Trump that Trump supporters themselves write and spread on social media and political forums is the magnitude of the activity on Trump's part. It's like comparing someone stealing a candy bar from a 7-11 and then Trump robbing a bank or something. There are several orders of magnitude difference in Trump's behavior across a whole host of issues. And quite literally. A significant politician will lie or exaggerate maybe several times a month or something. Trump has done it over 20,000 times. There's just no contest in terms of the depravity of Trump's character and actions.
....
My reference to the Constitution was intended to be about Trump's continual and repeated violations and degradations of the Constitution throughout his term in office.

I have no problem criticizing the Democrats. For me to level the same sort of criticism at the Democrats you will have to find violations as grotesque and abusive as what the Trump administration has been doing. Nobody can unless they lie and exaggerate. That's the bottom line. And just repeating propaganda you heard on Tucker Carlson's show isn't good enough for me. Prior to the Trump administration, about 30% to 50% of the people I voted for during the course of my life at the local, state, and federal levels were Republicans. Now, it's going to be 100%. Why? Because Republicans have sold their soul and sold out Republic.

Again, my friend, you are doing yeoman's service. CPWill is one of the very few "conservative" posters here who is reachable, so I laud the effort.

Your 7-11/bank robber analogy is appropriate. It is hard to even catalog, much less quantify or qualify, the numerous legal, constitutional, and moral violations committed by Trump, and his minions, on a daily basis, and the level of hypocrisy engaged in by his supporters is astounding. Jaywalking, while illegal, is incomparable to using government resources to violently and illegally clear a public area of peaceful protesters exercising their constitutional right of assembly for a photo op, although both involve "crossing the street." That is the level of "equivalency" being attempted, here.

I never claimed that Obama was the second coming, but to try to equate ANY of his behavior, or that of his cabinet, to the routine behavior of Trump and his cabinet is like tarring Mother Theresa for being the equivalent of Jack the Ripper on the morality scale. Consider the remarkable stability of the Obama administration - no drama Obama - with Trump's unprecedented revolving door of appointments (many of which are brazenly illegal): Michael Flynn, convicted of lying to the FBI; Steve Bannon, indicted for fraud; Sebastian Gorka - can't even get a security clearance; Tom Price, left under a cloud of scandal for misuse of government resources; Ryan Zinke, same; Scott Pruitt, same - not mentioning those that are still there doing the same kind of self-dealing and unethical conduct - Ben Carson, Mike Pompeo, Steve Mnuchin, Wilbur Ross, the list goes on.... and on.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Trump has never cared about the law. He views encounters with the law as an occupational hazard.

I agree with you.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Notably absent from this post or the link is any actual analysis of how any of this violated the Hatch Act, specifically.

This is your hero...forcing these Marine Guards to break the law.



Page 4:

§ 7324. Political activities on duty; prohibition

(a) An employee may not engage in political activity—

(1) while the employee is on duty;

(2) in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties by an individual employed or holding office in the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof;

(3) while wearing a uniform or official insignia identifying the office or position of the employee; or

(4) using any vehicle owned or leased by the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

other than the President and the Vice President

I agree with this. And never said otherwise.

For someone who never stops complaining about how much Trump lies, you sure are doing a good job of imitating him. Your blatant lies of omission are still lies.

This is outrageous.

Let me explain to you how wrong you are.

1. What Trump is doing is far worse than a simple violation of the law. He is forsaking his duties as President. But who am I kidding? No Trump supporter cares one bit about the Constitution do they?

Furthermore, while it's important that we recognize that while it is not illegal for Trump to behave unethically in this manner, it is still WRONG -- IF NOT a violation of the "Take Care" clause of the Constitution -- for Trump to force other people in his administration to violate the Hatch act.

The Take Care Clause means that the president may neither breach federal law himself nor order his subordinates to do so, for defiance cannot be considered faithful execution. The Constitution also incorporates the 1689 English Bill of Rights’ bars on dispensing with or suspending the laws. Hence the president can neither authorize private violations of the law (issue individualized dispensations) nor nullify statutes (wholly suspend their operation).

Article Two of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

The Heritage Guide to the Constitution

2. Outside of the context of his Constitutional violation, supposing ALL he did was violate the spirit of the Hatch act himself, and suppose he did not order a single subordinate to violate the Hatch Act..it's important that we recognize that while it is not illegal for Trump to behave unethically in this manner, it is still WRONG. Trump is not now behaving in a manner consistent with good ethical conduct. Has he ever?

--

Trump supporters support a thug and a criminal...

The lengths, the mental gymnastics, you will go to in order to support your cult leader. I truly pity you. You are following a deceiver, a sort of anti-christ, hell-bent on destroying our Republic...

All because your parents and your community did not teach you what America means. They did not teach you the founding values and principles of our country.. Or worse, you don't care.

 

[Noodlegawd]

This is your hero...forcing these Marine Guards to break the law.

View attachment 67293025

Page 4:

§ 7324. Political activities on duty; prohibition

(a) An employee may not engage in political activity—

(1) while the employee is on duty;

(2) in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties by an individual employed or holding office in the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof;

(3) while wearing a uniform or official insignia identifying the office or position of the employee; or

(4) using any vehicle owned or leased by the Government of the United States or any agency or instrumentality thereof.

Jesus, there you go lying again.

I never said I even like Trump (I don't), let alone that he is my hero. The fact that I'm calling out your nonsense doesn't mean that he is.

And thanks for once again demonstrating your apparent inability to read:

For the purpose of this subchapter—(1) ‘‘employee’’ means any individual, other than the President and the Vice President,employed or holding office in—(A) an Executive agency other than the Government Accountability Office;(B) a position within the competitive service which is not in an Executive agency; or (C) the government of the District of Columbia, other than the Mayor or a member of the City Council or the Recorder of Deeds; but does not include a member of the uniformed services;

 

[W_Heisenberg]

This is where Trump will be giving his speech tonight.



Do you Trump supporters think this is appropriate?

 

[SCrider]

I notice no one had posted about this. I am not surprised. It is really hard to keep up with the Trump administration's breathtaking violations of the law.

First Thing: an unprecedented night at the RNC – for possible Hatch Act violations | US news | The Guardian

Legal observers said the second night of the RNC may have flouted laws that prevent federal employees from taking part in political activity while on duty.



The bottom line is that Trump, his political allies, and his supporters do not care about the law.

No, it's cool, no one likes that law anyway.

party of law and order.....