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An Open Letter to LGBTQ+ Movement Leaders

(Let's clarify: 1) I'm in a particularly combative mood today and want to burn off some steam. 2) I am dissatisfied with where the LGBTQ+ movement is going for the reasons outlined below, whereas --logically-- I should be a part of it. 3) There are some parts on here that may not be accurate. I have no problem being corrected if I get something wrong, 4) in my life so far, no modern-day movement that I am aware of and that I qualify for represents me and -specifically me- only, 5) It seems that I actually have -missed- the part/direction of the movement I would have otherwise thought represented me by a few decades, so this is part of the frustration, 6) This is not directed at individual people who are of the LGBTQ+, and 7) This is part of a larger stress that I have in general of a feeling of not belonging to any one movement or fitting in with society))





Dear LGTBQ+ Movement leaders


This purpose of this letter is being written by a bigendered gay (or asexual) male. I have felt increasingly isolated from your movement, whereas I feel I should really be part of it. There are barriers that have been created between your movement and my wanting to join it and be part of the community.





Last I knew, the movement was about being an accepted and valued part of society. If this has changed, then please stop reading here.





I am aware that you cannot possibly pay the proper emphasis to every single person of every single orientation that you claim to present. However, I am concerned that there have been specific parts of the movement that have accidentally alienated even the people that you represent.





  • I don’t need a preferred name or pronoun. As a cisgendered gay male, I recognize that is particularly touchy for those who are transgender. First of all, the only group where genders and pronouns seem to matter is the T and Q part of the acronym. I find it bizarre that I would even have this as a required part of LinkedIn profile. A nickname I understand. I even understand the need for transgenders to need to be referred to by their new identity that they are transitioning to for psychological and emotional reasons. If I found out that you had a preferred name, I would respect that. But being a cisgender male, this is a nonissue for me and about 98% of the people in the world. There’s no need to require it for the 98% of people who don’t need it.




The reason I am concerned about this is because the pretense it sets, that everyone should be treated equally, actually sets a pretense of being different. The question of gender conformity affects only 2-5% of people, the T (transgender) in your movement. The fact that I have to fill out a new line on the application backfires because if I fill out that I want to be called Susan, it signals that I am different. I am more concerned with the effect this has on the ability of transgendered individuals to be hired.





While jobs do not usually discriminate on basis of sexual orientation (and those who do, won’t tell you), this is easily a question that can be manipulated to, among other things:


  • Say that they do not fit with the office culture (a generic excuse for a specific reason of “oh my God this person is too different from me).
  • Ask stupid questions of MtF and FtM job candidates (along the lines of “so… are you going to want pregnancy leave, or…?”.
    • Note that this is also potentially illegal (I’m not sure of the -exact- law here), but that it will not stop someone ignorant of the law to from doing this
  • Use the answers you give to force you out of a job later on
    • To use a non-LGTBQ+ issue I have disclosed twice that I have Asperger’s to an employer, and both I have suspected they have used that information against me to push me out of a job (and was done in such a way that I cannot definitively prove either occasion without jumping through a ton of hoops, which I really don’t want to do, and nor will really anyone else unless the discrimination is can be proven easily).




In this case, I fear a potential backfire.





Next, I don’t want my orientation to be “accepted” in the way it is today. Some religious people can’t understand the “idea” of being gay, and no amount shoving-it-down-their face and forcing them to legally accept it will change that. Put another way, bosses should to accept your existence, rather than accept your orientation. It’s a different, radical, and conservative approach all in one, I know! (Insert the standard “self-hater” comments here).





Consider how the world would be different if:


  • A police officer may not respect you because your skin color is different, but knows that he has to treat you the same as people of his skin color under the law or be fired (or worse — see: George Floyd’s now-convicted killer)
  • A gay person was treated as if he/she was no better or no lesser than all the other employees in the room




So, what I want to see the movement change to is acknowledge the right to -exist.- You can hate me all you want, but I am a human being with a certain number of rights afforded by the law. I expect that you follow the law and respect my rights like any other human being, but I am not expecting you to greet me with open arms if you do not like the person I am. I don’t even think giving a million dollars to you will change your mine.





Finally, and this ties back to the acceptance thing: gay pride parades. I have absolutely no problem with being gay and being proud. Our collective rights as a group have grown a lot since Stonewall and other protests. My ancestors (if I had any gay ancestors) found hard to get us the rights we have to day, and we should be proud of how far we’ve come.





However, and this may be a select group of people at the parade, and not the whole group, but … gay parades have gotten the reputation for being sexually risqué. Nothing quite says “I am different than you are” than putting your sexual orientation on full display. It acts as a wedge, rather than a true statement of pride.



--------

Dear Straight/Heteronormative People:
You're not off the hook: I have a whole, similar rant for you, too. :)
 
I'm responding to the first couple of paragraphs only. I'll read the rest later.

Sir, you have stumbled upon the main flaw in identity politics. You depend on your membership in a group for your self worth and then lament that you are not esteemed as an individual.

There's only one movement in which your value as an individual will be honored. That's libertarianism. You would start by valuing yourself as an individual.

After that who else would you need?
 
(trimmed for length)

No matter what tactics a movement uses, however nonviolent they are, someone will STILL find a way to whine and complain about them.

May I suggest you quit whining and start adapting?
 
Sir, you have stumbled upon the main flaw in identity politics. You depend on your membership in a group for your self worth and then lament that you are not esteemed as an individual
The issue is that there is a movement out there that -claims- to represent me. Apparently in the 1970s with Stonewall and the like, they were way closer to representing me. I don't necessarily have to be a -part- of a movement, I just get mad when they go in a direction that I don't want to go and then claim to represent me. But yes, identity politics ironically does rob one of their individual identity. Hence why I belong to political party. I swear, I should have been born in some other democracy or something :p

To take it out of LGTBQ+, I used to have Asperger's. (I don't know if I qualify for it any more since the redoing of the DSM.) There's a group called Autism Speaks who used to run ads in the 90s about what a burden autistic children were on parents. But yet, they "claimed" to represent autistic people.

May I suggest you quit whining and start adapting?
You did pick up accurately on the "whining" part ;)

Again, it's not the individuals in the movement I have a problem with. The problem I have is with leadership in that they claim to represent me. While I know they can't accurately reflect everyone in the group, I also can't help being associated with the movement at this point. So if I say, "I'm gay," they will think of the movement and might come to the conclusion that I support everything the group does, including identity politics. If I said, "I'm gay, but I don't support the movement," they might think there was something mentally wrong with me.

I think the movement as a whole has improved society for people like me, and I thank them for that, the direction they're going as of 10-15-2021 is not the direction I think they should be going. That doesn't mean that on 10-16-2021, they start going back in the right direction. But the trend is largely negative since roughly when Trump was elected, where they slowly started becoming almost a parody of themselves.

Just like in the 90s, if I said I had Aspergers, someone might think "oh, you're a burden on your parents," and if I said I wasn't, then they might wonder what was wrong with them. This is also especially true since, until relatively recently, they had no one on the board of the group who was autistic.

So, in general, right now, both Autistic Speaks and the LGBTQ+ movement is causing me on a personal level more harm than good. But I intend to praise them when they get it right. I just want to be treated legally on a level playing field like everyone else. I have no desire for people to bend over backwards to accommodate something that (usually) doesn't become an issue at work, anyway.
 
There's only one movement in which your value as an individual will be honored. That's libertarianism. You would start by valuing yourself as an individual.

After that who else would you need?

It seems to me that we next mix of the various philosophies. Call it Libertaridemocratreenupublicanism if you will.

1) Libertarianism - emphasis on the individual when it comes to their body, life choice, and individual, daily decisions (Amendment 10: All powers herein not enumerated to the federal government are reserved to thee state government OR the people)
2) Green - emphasis on protecting the environment and consumer protection (or used to be before 2016's election).
3) Democrats - emphasis on common-sense regulations (i.e., don't put a rusted-out chemical tank near the lake that is a major water source) AND the safety net
4) Republicans - to make the programs from 2 and 3 (and 1, if there are any - forget if they want any programs, or just want to demolish the ones that they think are dumb) run smoothly.

This is the classic way that these philosophies can be used.
 
The issue is that there is a movement out there that -claims- to represent me. Apparently in the 1970s with Stonewall and the like, they were way closer to representing me. I don't necessarily have to be a -part- of a movement, I just get mad when they go in a direction that I don't want to go and then claim to represent me. But yes, identity politics ironically does rob one of their individual identity. Hence why I belong to political party. I swear, I should have been born in some other democracy or something :p

To take it out of LGTBQ+, I used to have Asperger's. (I don't know if I qualify for it any more since the redoing of the DSM.) There's a group called Autism Speaks who used to run ads in the 90s about what a burden autistic children were on parents. But yet, they "claimed" to represent autistic people.


You did pick up accurately on the "whining" part ;)

Again, it's not the individuals in the movement I have a problem with. The problem I have is with leadership in that they claim to represent me. While I know they can't accurately reflect everyone in the group, I also can't help being associated with the movement at this point. So if I say, "I'm gay," they will think of the movement and might come to the conclusion that I support everything the group does, including identity politics. If I said, "I'm gay, but I don't support the movement," they might think there was something mentally wrong with me.

I think the movement as a whole has improved society for people like me, and I thank them for that, the direction they're going as of 10-15-2021 is not the direction I think they should be going. That doesn't mean that on 10-16-2021, they start going back in the right direction. But the trend is largely negative since roughly when Trump was elected, where they slowly started becoming almost a parody of themselves.

Just like in the 90s, if I said I had Aspergers, someone might think "oh, you're a burden on your parents," and if I said I wasn't, then they might wonder what was wrong with them. This is also especially true since, until relatively recently, they had no one on the board of the group who was autistic.

So, in general, right now, both Autistic Speaks and the LGBTQ+ movement is causing me on a personal level more harm than good. But I intend to praise them when they get it right. I just want to be treated legally on a level playing field like everyone else. I have no desire for people to bend over backwards to accommodate something that (usually) doesn't become an issue at work, anyway.
I appreciate your respectful reply. I've worked with many children with Asperger's and they can be a burden on their parents, as all children can be. I agree that singling Asperger's kids out for that seems more advocating for their parents than for them.

One concern: Your post appears to attribute this quote:

May I suggest you quit whining and start adapting?
to me.

That was Phys251.

No matter what tactics a movement uses, however nonviolent they are, someone will STILL find a way to whine and complain about them.

May I suggest you quit whining and start adapting?
Accusing someone who disagrees with you of "whining" is a way to stop debate not further it. I avoid it myself, unless a particular poster become repetitive and unresponsive.
 
I appreciate your respectful reply. I've worked with many children with Asperger's and they can be a burden on their parents, as all children can be. I agree that singling Asperger's kids out for that seems more advocating for their parents than for them.

One concern: Your post appears to attribute this quote:


to me.

That was Phys251.


Accusing someone who disagrees with you of "whining" is a way to stop debate not further it. I avoid it myself, unless a particular poster become repetitive and unresponsive.

If you don't want bullshit called out, then stop spewing it. Simple. 🤷‍♂️
 
If you don't want bullshit called out, then stop spewing it. Simple. 🤷‍♂️
I don't mind being called out on my bullshit. If someone shows me that it's bullshit, I'll own it, and change.

I don't have enough hours in the day if people are going to start mistakenly calling me out on yours.
 
I appreciate your respectful reply. I've worked with many children with Asperger's and they can be a burden on their parents, as all children can be. I agree that singling Asperger's kids out for that seems more advocating for their parents than for them.

One concern: Your post appears to attribute this quote:


to me.

That was Phys251.


Accusing someone who disagrees with you of "whining" is a way to stop debate not further it. I avoid it myself, unless a particular poster become repetitive and unresponsive.

Yes, that was Phys251. I don't know how to quote multiple posters in a single post, which is why I had a quote with no user given to it. Please let me know how to do it so I can do better next time :)
 
That's badly written. It passes as a Rant Post but for your own blog you should be editing more and trying for more of a Personal Manifesto.

Personal pronouns are one of the Fronts in the Culture War. I'm sorry if you feel you're being excessively called on to take sides, but that's what being part of a coalition is. Cis bigots are combative about something which should have been settled fifty years ago when the chair of a committee became known as "chairperson" when their gender was unknown. "Chair" is fine too, the ambiguity is tolerable. Some of our allies do not accept "he" nor "she" and we must hold the line at "they" until we can make current some less ambiguous system like "ze/zer" to express most plainly "gender other than he or her".

Sure, it really does not help that some on our side want third genders recognized. But rather than telling them off, I would use them as cannon fodder. They're going to get slaughtered but they might help open the breach for "they" or something better.

I might reply on some of your other points, but I was irritated by your unwillingness to fight the battle at hand. Male gays have it pretty good now, but it's because of wide support in the straight cis community and to turn on the minor TQ faction now would be a big mistake for all LGBTQ. Maybe you even owe Lesbians more than you realize.
 
Yes, that was Phys251. I don't know how to quote multiple posters in a single post, which is why I had a quote with no user given to it. Please let me know how to do it so I can do better next time :)

Moving quotes around is easier if you turn off BB code, using the [ ] buttons in the top-right.
 
No matter what tactics a movement uses, however nonviolent they are, someone will STILL find a way to whine and complain about them.

May I suggest you quit whining and start adapting?
Who's whining? It's the LBGTWXYZ community, that's who. Now they want to be called a certain way, and celebrated in schools. You know what, we never even talked about gender and heterosexuality in school when I was growing up, and we didn't celebrate it there either. They always want something more, like their own restrooms. 4% of the population trying to tell 96% what to do. They're overplaying their hand, and people are getting tired of it. You want to live that lifestyle, fine; but don't tell me or my kids what to do or think.
 
And it's not even the "whining" as you say that bothers me. I also blame the leaders of the movement, especially with the bathroom stuff and the baker thing. These were not issues until the leaders decided it was. And you get into a weird situation where ridiculous outcomes can happen if you follow this through to an exaggerated (but logical) conclusion:
* There are no man/woman bathrooms at all, and anyone who comes it will have to take a risk they will see the genitalia of the opposite sex. This, among many other reasons, including rape, will make all public bathrooms a safety hazard.
* Consumers of baked good will no longer be able to choose which baker to go and must go to the same baker in the same location for everything.

The "Correct" (polite?) response for a baker is if I or another gay person walks in and they are religious is to say, "I could do this for you, but my heart's not going to be in it for religious reasons [or whatever reason]. But, I hear there's an LGBTQ+ baker on the other side of town." <-- problem solved, we're all respected in the end. The baker doesn't have to lie that s/he's going to give the gay couple unenthusiastic service, while the gay people now know of a safer option in town. A wedding day is a special day, yada yada, and you want the best service, not just some baker who's going to turn in some mediocre service.

I have no problem with people wanting more rights, but let's not make a human rights issue out of something that wasn't even on the radar for most people, including most people of the LGBTQ+ radar until someone made a stink! I have no problem with designated transgender bathrooms. There, I've solved the problem.

Also lifestyle and orientation are different and has been proven overtime. Another way of saying this is you can have a flamboyant -lifestyle- even though you were -born- gay.

As far as "telling your kids what to do or think," there only needs to be two things that should be taught:
* Gay people, though different from you, are still entitled to the same rights and protection that any American citizen gets.
* Gay people, though different from you, are still human. You should treat them as you would others your age.

Everything else will eventually sort itself out as they naturally progress in their individual political thought, etc.

You could have a sex ed class if you want, but that's not really needed. Your kids will get older and figure out the basic differences as they learn normal sex ed, such as that orientation is the way people are born, but there are lifestyle choices within that, yada yada yada. So if you want to minimize it, think of it as straight guys act macho masculine and many gay guys act ... the opposite of that. But stay to the facts, don't go indoctrinating people to specific political beliefs.

You don't have to grant special favors or anything like that. Sometimes, the most powerful allies are the ones who just accept your existence and your right to live your life however you please.
 
I wish the Cispremacists would look in the goddamn mirror for a change
 
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