• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

An open letter, to CIA, US Navy, and DOD, which need funds, for climate change intel:

bobgnote

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
131
Reaction score
18
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The following information may not have gotten through, to the CIA, at their website, since I kept getting an error message:

Hello, I am a US citizen, who has read: CIA Opens Center on Climate Change and National Security
September 25, 2009

https://www.cia.gov/news-informatio...-on-climate-change-and-national-security.html

I have also read, how the company has to keep this quiet:

CIA Keeps Its Climate Work Under Wraps | Mother Jones

The CIA's Weather Underground | Mother Jones

So I wasn't able to find any reference, to this center, when I ran a search, at the CIA website, for any information, about climate change. Of course, I would normally visit NASA or AGU or NOAA or some magazine, like Nature or Physics Magazine, since I like to read serious studies and reports.

But for practical purposes, I feel compelled to use this form, to contact the agency, since climate change is obviously underway, past all tipping points, in the way, of runaway global warming. We may find ourselves in the difficult position, of whistleblower.

If we are to be whistleblowers, I recommend a loud burst, of this activity, to immediately direct strategic media. Losing is not an option.

Our recent solar cycles have been mild, including the current cycle 24, a lot of perennial cap and glacial ice has melted, and so global temperatures should be subject, to some sort of stabilizing counter-forcing. But temperatures have risen.

We are seeing more high temperature records, than low temperature records, and this trend will tend, toward 20-1, by 2050, and this may reach 50-1, by 2100. El Nino events will tend to overbalance La Nina events, progressively.

Natural disasters are up. This must continue. One big El Nino event, and the Sacramento area will flood. One earthquake, and it won't even take a really big event, to get the middle of California all wet.

The East Coast and Gulf areas are probably a write-off. It will take about a 1.6 C rise, to finish Greenland's ice, and we will likely see that surpassed, without solar intensity getting worse, but the intensity will certainly increase, while CH4 and more CO2 out-gas, from warming lands and waters, particularly in the Arctic. Then SLR will surely take the Atlantic coast and more.

Ordinarily, the Pleistocene-Holocene maximum for CO2 is 280 ppm, whereupon CO2 would slowly decrease, and temperatures would jump around, but decline, over 80-100K years, until CO2 reaches 180 ppm, and then CO2 and temperatures would shoot up, to the usual maximum area, which is where we are, today.

But somebody started burning a lot of wood, coal, and oil, while riding around in cars, to work in factories, or to cut forests, with chainsaws. Some of these people won't own up, to what happened, when people simultaneously increased emissions, with several different pollutants, while injuring CO2 respiration.

These people are severally seditious, and I think the CIA needs to notice their active tendency, to issue propaganda, which is similar, to flat-earth theory, but which is called "skepticism," and maybe some call their appetite for false media, 'conservatism.'

As a result, none of the 450,000 elected officials, in the USA is effectively planning, to engage CO2-neutral biomass OR to radically re-green, despite the urgency of need, for our security, against accelerating climate degeneration. We haven't even caught up to Henry Ford's hemp ethanol and plastic, evident since the Model T, or to his indestructible plastic, 1941, see YouTube.

We don't get to have calcified hemp hurds, to make termite-resistant houses and other structures. We also need switchgrass and algae, with ultrasound processing, to make ethanol. But we don't have a lot of this, or genetically engineered plants, to re-green deserts and polluted areas, which must be reclaimed, lest existing human habitats fail.

When the northern ice albedo (reflectivity) fails, northern summers will add a lot of warmth, while East Antarctic ice will eventually start sliding, into the warming oceans. SLR is already accelerating, so any increase in storm severity can wreck a lot of the US. Tornado alley now goes, from California, to Poland, no joke.

But when the heavier seas engage in such tidal lunacy, as precedes seismic and volcanic events, the volcano on the island of La Palma will erupt, one more time, which may be the eruption, which calves up to 1/3 of the island, into the Atlantic, which will swamp D.C. and most of the East Coast. How much will we get back, after that happens?

The oceans are acidifying, from absorbing too much CO2, which will upset the food chain, but when the oceans enlarge and warm, jellyfish will take over, as top predator, but any fish we eat will likely come from farms. When the oceans warm up, a lot, SLR will move, toward the 70 m level, which will be catastrophic, to any people, left alive.

Storms will be more numerous and powerful. But when that SLR squeezes off big volcanoes, we will enter into a phase, of severe disruption, of all human media. When Long Valley blows, the SW will be a mess.

But when Yellowstone blows, the US breadbasket will get taken out. I believe the reason the Russians once had a 50-megaton Tsar-bomba is they intended to cut into the Yellowstone magma chamber, with tactical nukes, and then they could detonate the big bomb, in the plume, right over the magma chamber, so any lahars or ash-fall would be deadly and pernicious.

Of course, some fallout would reach Europe and Asia, but the US would be destroyed, without even resorting to a lot of accurate targeting, by other ICBMs, if somebody targeted Yogi Bear, first. Good thing the Russians dismantled that Tsar-bomba.

To the point: I believe the anti-AGW skeptics are seditious, by degree. I don't see why they have gathered so much media, including opposition, to CIA funding, which has apparently forced the company to necessary silence, about the vital Center on Climate Change and N.S. That somebody got through the evil rip-offs and zombies, in the US, to make such a vital center is impressive, but this will continue to suffer funding difficulty, with the NOAA and any other vital agency, since funding is mis-allocated, by seditious profiteers.

If we stop all human emissions and start re-greening, now, SLR would still go up several feet. We need to be secure, here.

So I have some recommendations, and if you would like to reply, please engage my e-mail.

1. We have to remove people, from public media, who won't admit to climate change threats, especially if they pretend no global warming or human activity is related. These people are obtuse, in their denial, of circumstances and science, and they are now actively obnoxious and seditious, in a way, which is a lot more threatening, to national security, than any nut-job Marxists ever were:
a. don't underestimate nut-job Marxists, since the former Soviet Union was and Russia is an oil exporter, so advocates of Russian media do not actively oppose the US drug war, which prevents hemp, from its rightful place, in the US energy market;

2. We need to lose the war on drugs, ASAP. The inclusion of marijuana as a Schedule I drug was designed, to protect the petroleum and coal industries, from competition, while an enormously corrupt prison industry developed, so the US funds directly 25% of the world's detainees, while funding the drug war AND its carbon footprint, around the world, using the primary resources, of only 5%, of the world's population (US residents), in the course of corrupting all media agendas, so carbon emissions are severally multiplied, while funding for vital services is impaired (got funding troubles, hey now, we don't need anymore Op.FF fiascos, during a drug war);

3. We have to disassociate from seditious religions and their support for Israel, ASAP. Christians started easing into support, for the invasion of Palestine, as of the industrial revolution, and the 1882 invasion of Palestine, by Zionist settlers was the likely cause, of the Mahdi Rebellion, in Egypt, 1886. This trend will not desist. Israel is a nuisance, related to organized criminal media, generally, and to support Zionism and to guarantee Israel's defense and oil supply is a world-class nuisance, which continues to lead US failures, in the Middle East:
a. The US supports Sunnis, including as minority tyrants, such as Saddam in Iraq and the King of Bahrain, over Shiite majorities
b. I believe the CIA has in the past supported UBL, Saddam, and the Shah, which has failed, given US support for Israel and for corporate development, of national oil supplies
c. Some sort of failure will result, from US refusal, to recognize incompatible policies, which are all contributing, to consumption of sequestered carbon, while manipulating fossil fuel and other markets, which the US cannot control, since US oil production peaked, in 1970;

We must minimize our carbon footprint, re-green deserts and polluted areas, or we will lose human habitat, at a rate, which will force our ocean organisms into general extinction, but our human population and our culture will fail, in such a way, which will challenge US security, to its very limits, sooner, rather than later.

Extinctions are already 100x normal, but some estimates predict we will officially enter Mass Extinction Event 6, by 2022. If we fail to re-green, in an aggressive way, we can challenge the Permian-Triassic Extinction, 251-253 m.y.a., for the leading extinction event, of all time, but that event was enhanced, by some sort of strike, by a carbonaceous meteorite. Of course, never underestimate the ability of humans, to devise nuclear weapons and bad nuclear power plants, with bad cores and cooling systems!

We are out-gassing CO2, at about 10x the rate, preceding the PETM extinction, 56 m.y.a., and since we are out-gassing CH4, from Arctic areas, we have all the GHG preconditions met, to engage a high death toll, in the course, of a mass extinction event.

Of course, if humans keep on arguing, over practically everything, and corruption continues to rule, so cartels and gangs and their courts and lawyers are everywhere and anywhere, we are not likely, to minimize our carbon footprint, are we. So corruption and its carbon footprint has to go, while we need to get CO2-neutral biomass, going, already, and we need to re-green deserts and polluted areas. Any other course will lead to catastrophic failure, of human and animal habitat.

We need to grow hemp, in fertilizer-salted fields, and we need to grow switchgrass, on semi-arable lands. We can grow algae, by some kind of high-tech method. We need to put mangroves, in some places, and we need plants, unknown, to replace forests, damaged by alternating droughts and deluges, which made them susceptible, to beetle infestations and wild-fires.

Your thoughts, please! I hope you developed a sense of urgency, similar to mine, or national security is jeopardized.

Apparently, Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter and a host of other media 'conservatives' aren't being helpful. But I know one guy, who is a registered Republican, who leads, at finding scientific media, in my little group of AGW students. Another guy is probably a Democrat, while I tend to be a Green. Too bad all the Democrats in office come up with is cap-and-trade, since that leads to gridlock and boondoggle, with Republicans, who revel in devising media agendas, for the corrupt Democrats to imitate.

Gridlock and boondoggle is what the Democrats and Republicans thrive on. Help discourage this seditious, wasteful, big carbon-footprint behavior, since the warming and climate change tipping points are eluding our current media, of control. Human survival and US security will take a more aggressive approach, than having many geeks gather, to argue, over cap-and-trade or whether the heat waves, during mild solar cycles and record ice melts are indicative, of climate change. Hey! Climate is changing.

The US can fail, by large degrees, so let's go.
 
Re: An open letter, to CIA, US Navy, and DOD, which need funds, for climate change in

You've taken various bits of information that are based in reality, inflated them and made incorrect correlations, and then squeezed in a few tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

There are probably numerous underlying issues, but I would say a big piece is that you're getting a lot of your information from non-scientific sources.
 
Re: An open letter, to CIA, US Navy, and DOD, which need funds, for climate change in

You've taken various bits of information that are based in reality, inflated them and made incorrect correlations, and then squeezed in a few tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

There are probably numerous underlying issues, but I would say a big piece is that you're getting a lot of your information from non-scientific sources.

You've refused to refer to any bits of information, constructed a straw man, inflated him, called him a bastard, and put a tinfoil hat on your own creation, to label it a conspiracy.

There are underlying issues, in your ridiculous rant, so you won't even make a decent attempt, at ad hominem, so I'd say a big piece is you've called yourself "Deuce," which means you aren't much more than the number, which corresponds.

Run along and wipe. If you try this sort of nonsense, with the government agencies, which are having problems, with people like you, you won't get as much of an analysis. They'll sack you, like you are an OWS nutjob. As it is, your rant smacks of RWNJ lunacy.
 
National Intelligence Assessment, of security challenges by climate change, June 2008

June 26, 2008:

National Intelligence Assessment finds that climate change poses national security threat | Grist

A National Intelligence Assessment of the security challenges presented by climate change, which Congress requested last year, has been completed, and the intelligence community has come to the same conclusion that many have before: Climate change poses a threat to national security.

The report looks at the national security implications of climate change through 2030, and concludes that changing weather patterns could contribute to political instability, disputes over resources, and mass migration, National Intelligence Council chairman Thomas Fingar told a joint meeting of the House Intelligence Committee and the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Climate Change today.

Congress was first briefed on the report last week; today’s hearing allowed the committee to question Fingar, Energy Department intelligence chief Rolf Mowatt-Larssen, and National Intelligence Council counsel Matthew Burrows and economics officer Karen Monaghan about the new report.

Fingar told the committees that their assessment, which used projections on climate change from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and U.S. government climatologists, found that water scarcity and decreased agricultural productivity could force migration, and that migration and resource scarcity “could cause or aggravate tensions between migrants and received populations.” Their report also finds that severe weather events could have significant economic costs, which could further destabilize affected regions.

“It would have wide-ranging implications for national security because it will aggravate existing problems,” said Fingar. The effects would be especially problematic in countries where governments are already unstable, Fingar added, with places like Sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, and Central and Southeast Asia being the most vulnerable to drought, flooding, extreme weather, and food shortages.

The 58-page report itself has been listed as a classified document, so it is not available to the public, a fact that representatives from both sides of the aisle criticized today. It was intended to be a declassified document, but the agencies involved maintain that elements included therein are too sensitive to make available to the public. Both Intelligence Committee member Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Select Committee Chair Ed Markey (D-Mass.) said they would issue requests to the appropriate agencies that the report be declassified.

The report is the result of a collaboration between the National Intelligence Council — which coordinates the work of 16 government intelligence agencies, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the military intelligence arms — and government science programs like the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency, and the U.S. Climate Change Science Program.

Several Republican members of the committees raised questions as to the accuracy of the report’s projections, and suggested that the intelligence community should not have been tapped to work on this. “It’s a waste of time, a waste of resources for the intelligence committee to be working on this,” said Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), ranking member of the Intelligence Committee.

Asked the level of confidence he has in the assessment, Fingar said his confidence was “low to moderate,” which provided fuel for Republican ire over the assessment. But as NIC’s Burrows pointed out later in the panel, their findings “may in fact be an underestimate” of the effects of climate change.

Other Republican members expressed annoyance that the committees were not talking about how to ease energy prices. “Instead of taking this crucial action, Congress will today again talk about the global warming instead of the real threat of high gas prices and energy dependence,” said James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.), ranking minority member of the Select Committee. Sensenbrenner also said that he has a “skeptical view” of the “entire issue” of climate change.

Fingar maintained that the report is based on the best available scientific evidence, as well as the best available intelligence estimates about potential hot zones. He noted that this is an issue where “intelligence” as he would normally define it isn’t particularly helpful. “We can’t steal mother nature’s intentions … we don’t have body of information comparable to that which is available in other situations.”

Former United Kingdom Foreign Minister Margaret Beckett, retired Admiral Paul Gaffney, and Army War College professor Kent Hughes Butts also testified in a second panel to the security threats posed by a warming climate. Also on that panel were Lee Lane of the American Enterprise Institute and Marlo Lewis of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, who argued that the impacts of climate change aren’t so bad, and that acting on it could possibly imperil U.S. economic and military strength.

It's hard to say who gets me more p.o.'d, over this, Democrats or Republicans?

I have more Democrats in my face, but if Republicans are actually around, I think they are worse, right away.

Let's see which ones go extinct, first!
 
Re: An open letter, to CIA, US Navy, and DOD, which need funds, for climate change in

You've refused to refer to any bits of information, constructed a straw man, inflated him, called him a bastard, and put a tinfoil hat on your own creation, to label it a conspiracy.

There are underlying issues, in your ridiculous rant, so you won't even make a decent attempt, at ad hominem, so I'd say a big piece is you've called yourself "Deuce," which means you aren't much more than the number, which corresponds.

Run along and wipe. If you try this sort of nonsense, with the government agencies, which are having problems, with people like you, you won't get as much of an analysis. They'll sack you, like you are an OWS nutjob. As it is, your rant smacks of RWNJ lunacy.

That's me alright. One of those right wingers refusing to see the truth about global warming.
 
Re: An open letter, to CIA, US Navy, and DOD, which need funds, for climate change in

That's me alright. One of those right wingers refusing to see the truth about global warming.

So do you even have a position on something, at this thread? Your other posts on warming aren't that obtuse. Maybe you just need a thread, where nobody else is offering a RWNJ straw man or ad hominem, so here you are, without anything but implied opposition, to company policy.
 
Re: An open letter, to CIA, US Navy, and DOD, which need funds, for climate change in

Go Navy:

Defense.gov News Article: Navy Task Force Assesses Changing Climate

WASHINGTON, July 31, 2009 – Rapidly diminishing sea ice, melting glaciers, rising sea levels, increased storm severity -- all are possible consequences of a climate that mounting evidence suggests is changing significantly.

As the scientific community works to understand the changing climate, the chief of naval operations has created a task force, headed by Rear Adm. David Titley, the Navy's senior oceanographer, to better understand and evaluate its implications for maritime security.

“Task Force Climate Change was initiated … to assess the Navy’s preparedness to respond to emerging requirements, and to develop a science-based timeline for future Navy actions regarding climate change,” Titley explained in a July 28 interview on Pentagon Web Radio’s audio webcast “Armed with Science: Research and Applications for the Modern Military.”

"Because the Arctic is changing faster than any other place on the planet, our first deliverable will be a strategic roadmap proposing actions for the Navy regarding the Arctic region,” Titley said.

This may include an assessment of how maritime strategy applies to the Arctic region, potential improvements in infrastructure, and recommended investments in force structure and capabilities to prepare for the challenges presented by the changing climate, he explained.

Titley was interviewed while staying in Barrow, Alaska, the northernmost city in the United States, located 350 miles north of the Arctic Circle, where he was joining Rear Adm. Nevin Carr, chief of naval research, for a visit to the Coast Guard Cutter Healy, an icebreaker supporting scientific research in the Arctic Ocean. The visit was intended to observe retrieval of several bottom-moored buoy sensors funded by the Office of Naval Research.

"Observations from these buoys will give us a better science-based and fact-based understanding of what is going on in the Arctic," Titley explained.

Global climate change may present many challenges to national security, Titley said. Rising sea levels from the melting of glacial and sea ice are of specific interest to the Navy due to the coastal location of many of its bases. “We need to understand what it will take to protect these valuable investments,” he said.

Increasing ocean temperatures may compound the problem. “As the ocean temperature warms, thermal expansion may be a significant … and under-estimated component of sea level rise,” Titley commented.

“We are also very interested in the distribution of extreme weather events,” Titley said, explaining that while the mean global temperature may be rising, some regions may experience extreme heating while others are seeing colder-than-normal temperatures.

Titley explained that changing ocean currents and precipitation patterns may produce regional droughts and floods that could have severe consequences for stressed and poor populations, who have the least ability to adapt to a quickly changing environment. “This could result in an increased potential for large-scale humanitarian assistance and disaster relief efforts,” he noted.

The Arctic already is experiencing dramatic changes. “Since satellite observations began in 1979, we have seen a 40 percent decrease in perennial, or multiyear, sea ice,” Titley said. This decline in sea ice, he added, is opening up the Arctic for more human activity, including resource exploration and ecotourism in the near term, and the potential for increased commercial shipping and fishing in the decades to come.

“As the climate changes and the sea lanes start to open, the United States Navy has a role to play in maritime security, working with our Coast Guard and international partners to ensure the sea lanes remain open and navigation is free for all,” Titley said.

Titley discussed the intricate dynamics of ocean currents influencing the changes that are occurring in the Arctic. “The more I learn about the complex Arctic environment,” he said, “the more I realize that we still have significant aspects of the basic oceanography to understand before we are going to be able to accurately forecast and model these interactions.”

The Navy has a long history of polar operations, Titley noted, and the earliest indications of decreasing ice thickness were reported by Navy submarines in the 1990s. Since then, he added, the Navy has funded various scientific studies there in collaboration with other federal agencies and numerous partners in the world of academia and research.

Titley pointed out that another example of collaboration is the National Ice Center, a joint operation among the Navy, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the Coast Guard. The center charts sea ice worldwide for safety of navigation and operations, and their measurements have been crucial to quantifying the changes that are occurring in the Arctic, he said.

Titley said the Navy has many assets that can assist in understanding the changing climate. From a wide array of data-gathering sensors and platforms to super-computing facilities that process the data and create predictions, Navy assets continuously work to provide comprehensive knowledge of the physical environment.

“The naval oceanography program exists to provide environmental information to the operating fleet, allowing it to operate more safely and effectively,” Titley said.

“I like to say that we are operating in nature’s casino; I intend to count the cards,” he quipped.
 
I left a little message, for the Navy, via the DOD website:

I regularly read, how the CIA, DOD, and Navy need climate change strategy. I came across Admiral Titley's June 2010 article, in the DOD news:

Defense.gov News Article: Navy Official Discusses Climate Change Investment Strategy

The following information requires an immediate update:

He added that the Navy wants to ensure a “safe, stable, and secure Arctic."

Titley said the main goal of Task Force Climate Change is to ensure the Navy is not taken by strategic surprise, and he expressed satisfaction that climate change is being considered in strategic war games and limited objective experiments. He described these as “thinking exercises” that examine various strategic scenarios to determine how to handle them, to evaluate whether the assets are available to handle them, and to identify shortfalls.

“Nobody knows what the future will entail,” Titley said, “but if you run a range of scenarios, and you see that there are common capabilities and capacities that you would need to answer those scenarios, then you can really inform a future budget debate.”

Biographies:
Navy Rear Adm. David W. Titley
Related Sites:
"DoD Live" Bloggers Roundtable

WHAT NONSENSE! Every time CO2 concentrations shoot up, not as fast as they are rising, today, the Earth suffers a MASS EXTINCTION EVENT, which can be found, in existing coral records, if you seach the internet.

Our GHGs include a lot of out-gassing methane and industrial GHGs, so we will find, the Arctic ice will fail, as the oceans acidify, which will cause the demise of most desirable ocean species, AS ALWAYS HAPPENS, IN THE EVENT OF A SUDDEN RISE, IN CO2, except the Earth never suffered industrial GHGs, before.

When that northern ice albedo fails, every summer, northern summers will feature a lot more absorbed energy, and then Greenland and East Antarctic ice will begin to fail, dramatically.

Got a gay bath-house, which needs closing, already? Proposing carbon credits is like raising the price of admission, to go on in and spread HIV.

Proposing fracking is like letting crank dealers in, with free needles, which get dirtied right up, and the AIDS gets deadlier.

IF you want to be a global force, for GOOD, you have to legalize pot, catch up with Henry Ford's hemp ethanol and plastic, and also grow algae and switchgrass, to process ethanol with ultrasound, while making the hemp, into darned near anything.

If we are going to LIVE, we need to re-green all deserts and polluted areas AND minimize corruption AND its carbon footprint.

Any questions? Live or die, your choice, Admiral. But leaving off at nonsense, about how nobody knows what is happening means your budget will get attacked, by seditious conspirators. Eh?
 
Re: I left a little message, for the Navy, via the DOD website:

After the largely ignored multiple rehashes of the same old alarmist spam most posters would have gotten the message by now but you just cant seem to help yourself nonetheless :roll:
 
Re: I left a little message, for the Navy, via the DOD website:

After the largely ignored multiple rehashes of the same old alarmist spam most posters would have gotten the message by now but you just cant seem to help yourself nonetheless :roll:

Despite your 100% failure rate, you persist in straw man arguments, this time starting with an unreferenced spam allegation, during an un-punctuated, RWNJ-style, non-specific, personal allegation.

What part of methodical, related reports and studies don't you agree with? If you can't reference your disagreements, you might consider reading something else, since you can't reference your posts, which indicates you aren't reading my posts.

YOU are engaged in baiting. Get back under your bridge.
 
Back
Top Bottom