An Obamacare fiasco could blow up on Democrats right before the midterms

[LetsGoBrandon]

What's your point about your crash?
Yes, you got off lightly but not all crash victims are so lucky.

If you really think there isn't a health care crisis in the US then fine but it's obvious to everyone else that you have and that the private model preferred by Republicans is an utter disaster.
Again why should so many Americans need to resort to Gofundme to pay for medical costs?
The US is supposed to be the richest country in history and you have people dying because they can't afford medical bills.

That's what your side is arguing should be expanded.

I am by no means claiming that the US Healthcare system is perfect and does not need to be fixed. My point is that such a fix cannot be a UK type system or a Canadian type system. It would not work here and I am not convinced it works well in the UK or Canada. If it did, there would be no rationing or long waiting lists. We prefer a market based solution. The runaway cost that we are dealing with now is a result of too much government tinkering.

 

[TomFitz]

Some emergency government services are part of incorporating cities and have nothing to do with federal taxes. My emergency services are from the county and largely covered by my property taxes.if they would be good enough to eliminate my property taxes, I'll gladly pay for those services myself.

If you ride the ambulance, Medicare and Medigap get billed.

 

[RF667799]

I'm retired, but the insurance I had at work went from being free to me paying almost $400 a month on premiums. So too did the deductibles rise. The coverage was average, but the medicine plan was very good. All my medication copays were very reasonable. It seems that more and more companies are moving towards employees paying a greater share of the cost. I can't remember what their share of the costs were for premiums, but I was flabbergasted.

My insurance was free- paid by my employers- and I had the option to keep it and self-pay when I retired. I chose that option. $1250 a month. But the coverage is 500/1000 deductible and 2000/4000 max out of pocket per year. 10% co-pay. It also covers dental and eyeglasses. It's pricey compared to the subsidized "Marketplace", but I figure the peace of mind of being able to effectively budget has been worth it so far.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

There's nothing affordable in the Affordable Care Act. I'm speaking from first hand experience. Even with the subsidies I'm still looking at medical bills over $9000 and those don't even include the premiums for a Bronze plan of over $400 even with the subsidies. Of course it could be said that it could be worse without the ACA. I'll keep that in mind as I pay for the next several years for the current medical bills. Maybe, like college students, Biden will come up with a plan to forgive my medical debts.

I thought conservatives believed in individual responsibility.

 

[Peter]

I am by no means claiming that the US Healthcare system is perfect and does not need to be fixed. My point is that such a fix cannot be a UK type system or a Canadian type system. It would not work here and I am not convinced it works well in the UK or Canada. If it did, there would be no rationing or long waiting lists. We prefer a market based solution. The runaway cost that we are dealing with now is a result of too much government tinkering.

In what way is it not working in Canada or the UK?
Both systems are extremely popular and are extremely efficient.
The subject of rationing has been blown out of all proportion by Republicans as a scare tactic as can be seen by the stupid "Death panels" they bang on about.

My mother has had cancer multiple times and been treated excellently every time with no long waiting times.
Republicans have been on a decades long smear campaign against any nations healthcare system that's similar to single-payer.

 

[Peter]

My insurance was free- paid by my employers- and I had the option to keep it and self-pay when I retired. I chose that option. $1250 a month. But the coverage is 500/1000 deductible and 2000/4000 max out of pocket per year. 10% co-pay. It also covers dental and eyeglasses. It's pricey compared to the subsidized "Marketplace", but I figure the peace of mind of being able to effectively budget has been worth it so far.

That's great for you but I suspect you had a very good job and a company who didn't try and screw you.
Not everyone is as lucky as you.

 

[highroller]

There's nothing affordable in the Affordable Care Act. I'm speaking from first hand experience. Even with the subsidies I'm still looking at medical bills over $9000 and those don't even include the premiums for a Bronze plan of over $400 even with the subsidies. Of course it could be said that it could be worse without the ACA. I'll keep that in mind as I pay for the next several years for the current medical bills. Maybe, like college students, Biden will come up with a plan to forgive my medical debts.

did you borrow the money from the federal government? No? You'll have to ask your private debtor if they will forgive your loan.

I thought conservatives believed in individual responsibility.

They do until they don't.

 

[Overitall]

My insurance was free- paid by my employers- and I had the option to keep it and self-pay when I retired. I chose that option. $1250 a month. But the coverage is 500/1000 deductible and 2000/4000 max out of pocket per year. 10% co-pay. It also covers dental and eyeglasses. It's pricey compared to the subsidized "Marketplace", but I figure the peace of mind of being able to effectively budget has been worth it so far.

How long have you been under that plan? I'm curious as to if it goes up year to year.

Iirc, my wife's Bronze plan had a deductible of $6500. It didn't take long to reach it when having chemo and associated scans every three months.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I am by no means claiming that the US Healthcare system is perfect and does not need to be fixed. My point is that such a fix cannot be a UK type system or a Canadian type system. It would not work here and I am not convinced it works well in the UK or Canada. If it did, there would be no rationing or long waiting lists. We prefer a market based solution. The runaway cost that we are dealing with now is a result of too much government tinkering.

I am not for a fully nationalized solution like they have in the UK, however I think it is worth pointing out that no country on earth wants a healthcare system like ours. Canadians could vote in a healthcare system like ours any day if they wanted our system, but they don’t, in fact they would likely revolt if their government even suggested it.

You can’t have a pure market based healthcare system because most of healthcare is a market failure. Hell, better than half the healthcare markets in the United States is a monopoly with one healthcare system controlling the entire market.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

My insurance was free- paid by my employers- and I had the option to keep it and self-pay when I retired. I chose that option. $1250 a month. But the coverage is 500/1000 deductible and 2000/4000 max out of pocket per year. 10% co-pay. It also covers dental and eyeglasses. It's pricey compared to the subsidized "Marketplace", but I figure the peace of mind of being able to effectively budget has been worth it so far.

It should be pointed out that your plan is obviously very heavily subsidized by your employer and it’s likely they are self insured.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

How long have you been under that plan? I'm curious as to if it goes up year to year.

Iirc, my wife's Bronze plan had a deductible of $6500. It didn't take long to reach it when having chemo and associated scans every three months.

Have you looked at HSA compatible plans? Generally, if you know you will have a lot of healthcare spending in a year, they are the best option as there is no coinsurance after you hit your deductible.

 

[RF667799]

How long have you been under that plan? I'm curious as to if it goes up year to year.

Iirc, my wife's Bronze plan had a deductible of $6500. It didn't take long to reach it when having chemo and associated scans every three months.

I've been under that plan for about 20 years, 3 of them retired. The first year I was retired, it cost nothing.
It actually did go up this year...to $1262 a month. When I hit 65, it's supposed to go down to $950 or so. I have to check more into how that works. I assume it covers as usual for my wife, but becomes a supplement to Medicare for me.

 

[RF667799]

It should be pointed out that your plan is obviously very heavily subsidized by your employer and it’s likely they are self insured.

When I was working, employers paid 100% of the premiums and more. But no, it is a plan with a regular insurance provider contracted by my union.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

When I was working, employers paid 100% of the premiums and more. But no, it is a plan with a regular insurance provider contracted by my union.

I understand that, but someone is subsidizing much of the premiums because it would be much higher than $1,262 for someone near retirement age due the risk that poses for an insurer. Everyone wants to blame insurers and pharma for high healthcare costs because that is who they are paying, but insurer's profits are just a small percentage of premiums, and drugs are less than 10% of overall healthcare spending. The problem is the providers. Healthcare costs are so high because we have orthopedic surgeons earning $800,000 a year or more, plastic surgeons billing $20,000 or more for a few minutes of their time doing facial stitches in an ER, neurologists billing $5000 or more to spend 2 minute glancing at a CT scan, hospitals charging $900 for a $20 dollar metabolic panel because they bill for each result individually even though its one lab test...

My wife worked in corporate insurance defense for years and would pull medical records and billing all the time. If it were any other industry, we would call common medical billing practices in the United States fraud and extortion, because that is what much of it is, and it is why we pay such high health insurance premiums and still have high out of pocket expenses.

 

[RF667799]

I understand that, but someone is subsidizing much of the premiums because it would be much higher than $1,262 for someone near retirement age due the risk that poses for an insurer. Everyone wants to blame insurers and pharma for high healthcare costs because that is who they are paying, but insurer's profits are just a small percentage of premiums, and drugs are less than 10% of overall healthcare spending. The problem is the providers. Healthcare costs are so high because we have orthopedic surgeons earning $800,000 a year or more, plastic surgeons billing $20,000 or more for a few minutes of their time doing facial stitches in an ER, neurologists billing $5000 or more to spend 2 minute glancing at a CT scan, hospitals charging $900 for a $20 dollar metabolic panel because they bill for each result individually even though its one lab test...

My wife worked in corporate insurance defense for years and would pull medical records and billing all the time. If it were any other industry, we would call common medical billing practices in the United States fraud and extortion, because that is what much of it is, and it is why we pay such high health insurance premiums and still have high out of pocket expenses.

Being subsidized by all the 20 somethings in the pool of insured.

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post.

 

[Deuce]

I am by no means claiming that the US Healthcare system is perfect and does not need to be fixed. My point is that such a fix cannot be a UK type system or a Canadian type system. It would not work here and I am not convinced it works well in the UK or Canada. If it did, there would be no rationing or long waiting lists. We prefer a market based solution. The runaway cost that we are dealing with now is a result of too much government tinkering.

Why would there be inherently long waiting lists? We have more doctors and MRI machines than Canada. That's the bottleneck, not some arbitrary regulatory requirement.

Our market-based solution has failed miserably. Only fools would prefer it. We have the worst system in the first world. It's absurd that you claim government influence is the reason our costs are high when entirely-nationalized systems are cheaper. Are you telling me we have more government tinkering than the UK with nationalized healthcare?

You people need to figure this out. Of all the arguments against universal healthcare, cost is the one you literally cannot possibly make.

 

[TomFitz]

I was in a huge care accident just over 10 years ago at the age of 58. One ambulance ride and one night in the hospital. No operations. Less then $100.00 in medical bills.

I am not into opinion poll extrapolation data. It's weighted towards the desired result and exaggeration. I am 68 and middle class and with one exception have never had a family member, friend, or work colleague fail to pay medical bills for surgery or anything else.

Cost is definitely an issue in the US that needs to be addressed, however the solution must be market based, not socialized medicine. And everyone is treated regardless of ability to pay. There is a safety net available to those who truly cannot afford to may. It's called Medicaid and free clinics.

I guess you were a union man, or worked for the government and had gold plated health insurance.

You clearly take that situaltion for granted. And you already announced your preference for projecting your unusual experience by assuming that everyone else has the same thing.

Perhaps you can explain why the US is the ONLY country in the developed world where people go bankrupt over medical bills.

Your last paragraph harkens back to the days when Ronald Reagan said the same thing. That was a false and callous remark then, and it is worse now.

Because the last thing ANY Republican administration wants to do is reform American health insurance and health care.

 

[TomFitz]

Why would there be inherently long waiting lists? We have more doctors and MRI machines than Canada. That's the bottleneck, not some arbitrary regulatory requirement.

Our market-based solution has failed miserably. Only fools would prefer it. We have the worst system in the first world. It's absurd that you claim government influence is the reason our costs are high when entirely-nationalized systems are cheaper. Are you telling me we have more government tinkering than the UK with nationalized healthcare?

You people need to figure this out. Of all the arguments against universal healthcare, cost is the one you literally cannot possibly make.

Fools prefer it because they don’t know anything else. And since right wing political marketing only speaks the language of big pharma, the AMA, hospital chained etc, they take it for granted when they get their big co pay bills. And they take it for granted when the local small town or regional hospital is closed by the conglomerate.

And they fall for con like Medicare Advantage Plans.

 

[Deuce]

Fools prefer it because they don’t know anything else. And since right wing political marketing only speaks the language of big pharma, the AMA, hospital chained etc, they take it for granted when they get their big co pay bills. And they take it for granted when the local small town or regional hospital is closed by the conglomerate.

And they fall for con like Medicare Advantage Plans.

My personal favorite was seeing someone recently post their bill where they got charged for a hug. "Brief emotional support," I believe was the term on the bill.

Capitalism is the best, you guys!

 

[Cope]

Again, I didn't "bring up" SNAP, you DID, so bro, it is entirely within the context of "govt benefits" to discuss SNAP, especially since YOU DID bring it up before I did.


Which I am allowed to do.

Yes, you are. It's called nit picking. Bad form, but you do you.

Again, you brought it up BEFORE I entered the discussion, I'll keep reminding you, you introduced it into the discussion, not me.

Now, you are still on the hook for providing a link to that poll YOU cited. Get busy and stop failing by not providing it or going on stupid false tangents about who brought up a subject you introduced.

 

[Cope]

My personal favorite was seeing someone recently post their bill where they got charged for a hug. "Brief emotional support," I believe was the term on the bill.

Damn! For real? If so I think I have finally found my wife a job in her retirement!

Capitalism is the best, you guys!

 

[reflechissez]

When the ACA was passed Republicans said it wouldn’t be very good. Democrats said it would be excellent and more affordable. Republicans said if it’s so great then why won’t Congress flip to it? Democrats said that was a great idea and they were going to do that because it’s such a great program. Then as soon as they had to switch to it and their staffers were going to have to pay for it (even with their subsidies) they were scared they couldn’t get people to work for them if they had to buy insurance through the exchanges they had created. The whole point of getting Congress on it was to make sure that they were invested in making sure it was a program that would be high quality and affordable as promised. But, as soon as Democrats saw what it was they changed the rules to exempt themselves.

show your work

 

[reflechissez]

My insurance was free- paid by my employers- and I had the option to keep it and self-pay when I retired. I chose that option. $1250 a month. But the coverage is 500/1000 deductible and 2000/4000 max out of pocket per year. 10% co-pay. It also covers dental and eyeglasses. It's pricey compared to the subsidized "Marketplace", but I figure the peace of mind of being able to effectively budget has been worth it so far.

It's also pricey compared to medicare.

 

[RF667799]

It's also pricey compared to medicare.

I'm not eligible for Medicare yet. From what I understand, Medicare doesn't have the coverage my plan has. I have to see how it works when I have to sign up for Medicare. I know the premiums on my plan will go down to about 950 when I turn 65.

 

[rahl]

I am by no means claiming that the US Healthcare system is perfect and does not need to be fixed. My point is that such a fix cannot be a UK type system or a Canadian type system. It would not work here and I am not convinced it works well in the UK or Canada. If it did, there would be no rationing or long waiting lists. We prefer a market based solution. The runaway cost that we are dealing with now is a result of too much government tinkering.

why wouldn't it work here? And we already have rationing in the US. Market based solutions don't work for healthcare. It is simply not a typical commodity or service. It's why we pay more than double for our healthcare, and get worse results. Every other first world nation with a single payer system gets better care than we do, at a fraction of the cost we pay.