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opendebate

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So, I'm new here and I came here hoping to gain a deeper understanding of people who think differently than me politically. So far, I haven't quite managed to accomplish that so, I will try a more direct route. Would anyone care to share with me what their core political beliefs are, what party (if any) you believe best represents them and why?
 

ecofarm

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I'm a pro-life (mild), green (market based), hawk (dempeacetheory for bio and social diversity) libertarian. Obviously, those qualifiers exist because such are not the general platform of libertarians; they are the issues in which I do not stand with that (general) platform.

For the reasons in my signature, below.
 

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So, I'm new here and I came here hoping to gain a deeper understanding of people who think differently than me politically. So far, I haven't quite managed to accomplish that so, I will try a more direct route. Would anyone care to share with me what their core political beliefs are, what party (if any) you believe best represents them and why?


I have difficulty believing people can be defined by one "party". People have kiddingly said I was schizoid and a recent poll I took on political beliefs proved it. There is a current term, unknown to me till my neighbor told me, called "3fers". They actually fall into three parties based on varying degrees of political ideology. I am a 4er. I wander in a desolate aloneness of no strict adherence to any one ideology. :cuckoo::cuckoo:
 

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Well I'm 23 and I'm a conservative with a libertarian lean because I have seen in the history of my family what can be done when people are left to fufill their dreams. For example in my family I had both my grandfathers go from dirt poor farmers to a business owner which just sold for a considerable amount and accountant for a big oil company. It is this history that has taught me to do what you can on your own and lean on your community when you need help. It is this reliance on community especially the church not the government. So I would rather have less taxes so I can do more good in my community.
 

opendebate

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Well I'm 23 and I'm a conservative with a libertarian lean because I have seen in the history of my family what can be done when people are left to fufill their dreams. For example in my family I had both my grandfathers go from dirt poor farmers to a business owner which just sold for a considerable amount and accountant for a big oil company. It is this history that has taught me to do what you can on your own and lean on your community when you need help. It is this reliance on community especially the church not the government. So I would rather have less taxes so I can do more good in my community.

This implies to me an enormous faith in human nature.
 

opendebate

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I have difficulty believing people can be defined by one "party". People have kiddingly said I was schizoid and a recent poll I took on political beliefs proved it. There is a current term, unknown to me till my neighbor told me, called "3fers". They actually fall into three parties based on varying degrees of political ideology. I am a 4er. I wander in a desolate aloneness of no strict adherence to any one ideology. :cuckoo::cuckoo:

Not sure why some would see it as cuckoo.Explain that to me.
 

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I firmly believe that women have the right to choose their own healthcare solutions and should make their own choices concerning their bodies.
Therefore, I can't be a Republican.
 

opendebate

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I firmly believe that women have the right to choose their own healthcare solutions and should make their own choices concerning their bodies.
Therefore, I can't be a Republican.

So if the Republican party became more open to this idea could it change your choice of parties?
 

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For me it's all about the way I view the world. I'm an Ultra-Conservative bordering on an Authoritarian. Those views were what I grew up with, what I was taught by the people around me, and what I have come to believe in due to my own personal experiences in life. Mostly they are due to my near total distrust of human beings and my belief that very few in this world are truly capable of living a proper and appropriate life on their own.
 

ecofarm

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For me it's all about the way I view the world. I'm an Ultra-Conservative bordering on an Authoritarian. Those views were what I grew up with, what I was taught by the people around me, and what I have come to believe in due to my own personal experiences in life. Mostly they are due to my near total distrust of human beings and my belief that very few in this world are truly capable of living a proper and appropriate life on their own.

And yet you have no respect for authority (you'd sooner kill cops than subject yourself to the justice system - for beating women). Isn't that weird? I'd say it's not so much authoritarian as self-centered BS.
 

opendebate

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For me it's all about the way I view the world. I'm an Ultra-Conservative bordering on an Authoritarian. Those views were what I grew up with, what I was taught by the people around me, and what I have come to believe in due to my own personal experiences in life. Mostly they are due to my near total distrust of human beings and my belief that very few in this world are truly capable of living a proper and appropriate life on their own.


Seriously? So how does that play out? You don't trust human beings but you do trust some of them to create and then police a system that forces others to lead what they decide are proper and appropriate lives?
 

brothern

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So, I'm new here and I came here hoping to gain a deeper understanding of people who think differently than me politically. So far, I haven't quite managed to accomplish that so, I will try a more direct route. Would anyone care to share with me what their core political beliefs are, what party (if any) you believe best represents them and why?
I try to use my (and other's) life experiences to apply what I have learned to inform my political views. I don't want to become an ideologue or dedicate myself to a single world view, because in the end I want to be right and advocate for the best possible solution. I try to adhere to freethought (opinions should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism).

I throw myself into the 'Libertarian - Right' category. I think I currently lie within the realm of classical liberalism which in "current" terms is fiscal responsiblity, small government and social progressiveness. Usually I am voting Republican, but would swing to a conservative Democrat.
 

Tigger

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And yet you have no respect for authority (you'd sooner kill cops than subject yourself to the justice system - for beating women). Isn't that weird? I'd say it's not so much authoritarian as self-centered BS.

I have no respect for any authority that does not have a moral foundation to it. Nor should anyone else. That's the difference. A proper Authoritarian government is governed by the Morals and Values which are laid out at the creation of the nation/government. Not unlike what the Founders of this nation tried to do. Their mistake, and the issue corrected by the Authoritarian ideals is that there is no means for ensuring a properly moral citizenry and ensuring the government does not leave it's Constitutional boundaries.
 

ecofarm

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I have no respect for any authority that does not have a moral foundation to it.

Laws against beating people are founded in morals.

You have no respect for authority. Stop calling yourself an authoritarian. Your positions are self-centered inhumane BS.

Enjoy the wood fairies (granted, everyone needs someone who likes them, even if it's hallucinogenic fantasy), but stop pretending such beliefs are founded in anything other than a steaming pile of garbage.
 
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Tigger

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Seriously? So how does that play out? You don't trust human beings but you do trust some of them to create and then police a system that forces others to lead what they decide are proper and appropriate lives?

Yes, seriously. There are very few people that I have faith or trust in. It is that small group of people, probably less than 3% of the US population and definitely less than 1% of the overall world population who I would like to see in charge. By constantly checking and double-checking to ensure those people maintain a properly moral and decent lifestyle and therefore have the necessary traits to run the government, we would dramatically improve this country's economic status and move this nation towards being a considerably better place to live for those who are willing and capable of living properly. It might not be so much fun for those who can't or won't but well that's their problem.
 

Tigger

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Laws against beating people are founded in morals.

That depends on who is getting beaten and why.

You have no respect for authority. Stop calling yourself an authoritarian. Your positions are self-centered inhumane BS
.

I have a ton of respect for appropriate authority. I learned that very early on in my life from my family. It's a lesson I have not lost over the years. Theproblem is finding an appropriate authority these days. Yes, my positions are very self-centered. When you're one of a very few decent people you know, they tend to become that way as a means of self-defense if nothing else.

... stop pretending such beliefs are founded in anything other than a steaming pile of garbage.

A steaming pile of garbage?.... Are you talking about the US Government, the United Nations, The European Union, or some other current governmental entity?
 

opendebate

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I try to use my (and other's) life experiences to apply what I have learned to inform my political views. I don't want to become an ideologue or dedicate myself to a single world view, because in the end I want to be right and advocate for the best possible solution. I try to adhere to freethought (opinions should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism).

I throw myself into the 'Libertarian - Right' category. I think I currently lie within the realm of classical liberalism which in "current" terms is fiscal responsiblity, small government and social progressiveness. Usually I am voting Republican, but would swing to a conservative Democrat.

Okay, I have a lot of respect for that approach (opinions based on reason and logic....) and since you lean conservative maybe you can help me understand something. I don't mean to offend but it seems to me that many socially conservative policies reflect rather short term thinking fiscally. And since conservatives are all about hanging on to their money it seems to be a contradiction. For instance, it makes sense to me to provide people with a quality education and keep them healthy (preventative care). It seems like it would lesson the odds that they will develop a long-term dependency on government assistance, not to mention less loss in some private industry (ie: healthcare)

Educate me.
 

opendebate

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Yes, seriously. There are very few people that I have faith or trust in. It is that small group of people, probably less than 3% of the US population and definitely less than 1% of the overall world population who I would like to see in charge. By constantly checking and double-checking to ensure those people maintain a properly moral and decent lifestyle and therefore have the necessary traits to run the government, we would dramatically improve this country's economic status and move this nation towards being a considerably better place to live for those who are willing and capable of living properly. It might not be so much fun for those who can't or won't but well that's their problem.

You realize that can not be sustained don't you?
 

opendebate

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Yes, seriously. There are very few people that I have faith or trust in. It is that small group of people, probably less than 3% of the US population and definitely less than 1% of the overall world population who I would like to see in charge. By constantly checking and double-checking to ensure those people maintain a properly moral and decent lifestyle and therefore have the necessary traits to run the government, we would dramatically improve this country's economic status and move this nation towards being a considerably better place to live for those who are willing and capable of living properly. It might not be so much fun for those who can't or won't but well that's their problem.

So what is living a proper life? I mean, how specific do you get?
 

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Okay, I have a lot of respect for that approach (opinions based on reason and logic....) and since you lean conservative maybe you can help me understand something. I don't mean to offend but it seems to me that many socially conservative policies reflect rather short term thinking fiscally. And since conservatives are all about hanging on to their money it seems to be a contradiction. For instance, it makes sense to me to provide people with a quality education and keep them healthy (preventative care). It seems like it would lesson the odds that they will develop a long-term dependency on government assistance, not to mention less loss in some private industry (ie: healthcare). Educate me.
It does reflect short term thinking, lol. At the same time we can't consider 'conservatives' and 'progressives' or 'Republicans' and 'Democrats' to be fully consistent. Each group is a summation of millions of different political viewpoints, which when combined, don't make coherent sense. A fiscally-minded person could want preventive care while a hands-off person could oppose preventive care; both are conservative, it only happens that the hands-off person is louder on this particular issue. In another issue, he could be drowned out by a contending viewpoint that is also considered 'conservative'. We work with a black-white political system in a gray world.

Anyhow, a conservative believes that everyone ought to be looking after herself and her loved ones. That she is the best to know about her life condition (which is true) to make her own life decisions. That trumps most everything. If she chooses to live an unhealthy lifestyle or avoid educating herself, we may chide her for doing that, but it her right to do so. And I think most conservatives believe that to be the ultimate understanding of what personal freedom is and ultimately what will allow for people to empower themselves.

I don't believe that to be universally true.

Progressives, I feel, take that too far in the entirely opposite direction. That the community, government, experts or "you choose the authority" know how to shape a person's economic or personal success, and that the authority can also be successful in implementing that vision. Generally that leads to an intrusive government, which more often than not mucks things up because of unpredictiability, false assumptions, faulty policy implementations, screwy incentives or a want to micromanage. (Of course, companies and other organizations do that as well.) What may work for someone to encourage preventative care (e.g. 'tax credits for a healthy lifestyle') may in fact be detrimental to another person; or perhaps at its worse cause harm because one activity deemed as 'healthy' by the legislation might be discovered as cancerous, or in another case might prove for an incentive to fraudently claim tax credits.

It's a no win situation. But beyond that, mandated education and preventive care makes sense to me as well. We're social being that do not live in isolated bubbles.
 
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Tigger

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You realize that can not be sustained don't you?

I respectfully disagree. In fact the sort of system that I believe in sustains itself very simply - by only allowing those individuals who can live up to the standards of the society to benefit from the soecity in terms of things like Rights/Privileges, the ability to own property, the ability to vote or hold office, etc....

So what is living a proper life? I mean, how specific do you get?

It's a specific set of ideals based on the ideas of Personal Responsibility and Traditional Morals and Values. It's really about making sure that you take care of yourself and your family. It's about not counting on the government to bail you out when things go bad. That is what your family, friends, and local private charities are for, not the government. It's about proving you're willing and capable of giving something back to the country, and be loyal to it before you're allowed to take adcantage of the benefits of being a citizen of the country. It's about understanding that Right and Wrong are not maleable concepts and that Life has NEVER been about Fun or Happiness above doing what one Should do. I culd get a lot more specific, but then I'd probably be sitting here ranting for hours on end.
 
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