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An Honest Conversation about Race

i will attempt an honest discussion about race. I honestly dont care about race. Couldnt give half a damn . I respect the hell out of people that choose to create a life for themselves regardless of the obstacles. I have disdain for people that make excuses and blame others for their failings. I loathe people that exploit the race situation for gain. Black, white, brown, yellow, green...doesnt matter even a little bit. People of every race fit in all of those categories.
 
I have a question that may or may not be off topic in this thread.

If Zimmerman did not have a gun and Trayvon was brought up on felony assualt charges would he be charged with a hate crime?

I have to believe had the roles been reversed and someone overheard a white man say "a creepy a** n***** is following me" before attacking a black man it would be charged as a hate crime.

Sorry if this is off topic it was just something I was curious about.
 
Josie said:
Okay, so you think I wrote the OP. :doh
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oops...that's embarrassing. I did think you wrote that post. I guess I saw it as being consistent with the point of view you have represented here.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Why did Trayvon not call 911? Well you have to begin to understand that traditionally a lot of blacks don't trust the police to respond on time if at all to their problems..
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Honestly, I don't even think it goes that deep. My guess would be that he didn't think it was that serious even if he was nervous especially if he thought he could get away. I honestly don't think my first response would be to call 911 in that situation especially if I were on the phone with someone already and close to home.

In fact, I think the fact that so many people view Martin not calling 911 as automatically suspect is a symptom of the way black people are dehumanized by a lot of people. It's the same with how people view Martin's friend not calling 911 as automatically suspect and with how people view Martin potentially not going straight home as automatically suspect. In all three cases, certain people automatically assume that Martin and his friend's actions can only be explained in terms of sinister motivations. There is no consideration that either of them were just kids who didn't realize the seriousness of the situation. There is no attempt to use empathy to understand his potential mindset. There is barely any acknowledgement that Martin could have been legitimately afraid. It's as if his humanity has been erased from the conversation about him. That to me, speaks a lot to how black people - especially men - are perceived by a lot of people in this country.
 
I am bored with race. Don't give a damn either. Communities and races need to get their acts together. Like getting an education, stop with the unwed births, stop beating up those kids and being so rough. Most of all women take pride in yourselves and stop letting those guys take advantage of you.
 
I keep waiting for a black leader OTHER than the usual characters that have dominated the discussion over the past few decades. Fresh leadership, fresh ideas, a new direction. Someone who won't use the word "injustice" to describe every issue to the point where the word itself becomes meaningless. Someone not afraid to speak the truth about the REAL issues in their communities without being called an uncle tom.

somebody needs to step up or else their entire race just falls further and further behind
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Honestly, I don't even think it goes that deep. My guess would be that he didn't think it was that serious even if he was nervous especially if he thought he could get away. I honestly don't think my first response would be to call 911 in that situation especially if I were on the phone with someone already and close to home.

In fact, I think the fact that so many people view Martin not calling 911 as automatically suspect is a symptom of the way black people are dehumanized by a lot of people. It's the same with how people view Martin's friend not calling 911 as automatically suspect and with how people view Martin potentially not going straight home as automatically suspect. In all three cases, certain people automatically assume that Martin and his friend's actions can only be explained in terms of sinister motivations. There is no consideration that either of them were just kids who didn't realize the seriousness of the situation. There is no attempt to use empathy to understand his potential mindset. There is barely any acknowledgement that Martin could have been legitimately afraid. It's as if his humanity has been erased from the conversation about him. That to me, speaks a lot to how black people - especially men - are perceived by a lot of people in this country.
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Kids often make themselves out to be tougher than they really are. That's not a black or white thing. It's a kid thing.

Let's look at this rationally. If a kid, black or white, has adopted a clothing style and way of carrying themselves that is even a Hollywood version of "gangsta" they do so because that's the way they WANT to be perceived. I did the same thing in the 70's and used to get a kick out of walking around looking all hard and then, when I crossed paths with a nervous person, smiling and saying "Hello!". I used to get all kinds of chuckles out of folks response. The fact of the matter is that if a person is trying to give a particular impression and others buy into that perception well....that's what the kid was going for.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
That to me, speaks a lot to how black people - especially men - are perceived by a lot of people in this country.
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I think the only thing you spoke to was your perception that all non-black citizens are racist.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I love that you continue to not examine the possibility that YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.






LOL
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Anyone who refuses to accept the possibility that they are part of the problem has a problem.
 
shrubnose said:
Anyone who refuses to accept the possibility that they are part of the problem has a problem.
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How am I part of the problem?
I get up in the am and go to work, I help customers at a heavy truck dealership that are of all races and come from many parts of the world.
I go home, go out or stay. Either way I dont dwell on race as any issue at all. You act like a criminal, do criminal things, I dont care what color you are. I will call you out as a scumbag.
How does any of that make me part of the problem?
 
VanceMack said:
i will attempt an honest discussion about race. I honestly dont care about race. Couldnt give half a damn . I respect the hell out of people that choose to create a life for themselves regardless of the obstacles. I have disdain for people that make excuses and blame others for their failings. I loathe people that exploit the race situation for gain. Black, white, brown, yellow, green...doesnt matter even a little bit. People of every race fit in all of those categories.
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So how do you tell the difference between legitimate real disadvantages and excuses?
 
joko104 said:
Naw, once you start calling other members "racist" - regardless of who started it - which contextually may be allowed and even relevant - you still have at that point abandoned your status to complaint of name-calling.
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I don't mean to call anyone racist. I do think we can have a prejudice or racism can be effecting our perspective without us even realizing it. That in my mind does not make someone a racist. It may not be the RIGHT way to apply to term but since we are talking about my words you might as well understand what I believe.
 
CRUE CAB said:
How am I part of the problem?
I get up in the am and go to work, I help customers at a heavy truck dealership that are of all races and come from many parts of the world.
I go home, go out or stay. Either way I dont dwell on race as any issue at all. You act like a criminal, do criminal things, I dont care what color you are. I will call you out as a scumbag.
How does any of that make me part of the problem?
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I didn't say that you are part of the problem. What I said was that anyone who refuses to accept the possibility that they are part of the problem has a problem.

That's a totally different statement and idea.
 
shrubnose said:
Anyone who refuses to accept the possibility that they are part of the problem has a problem.
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So along the lines of 'honest discussion', would it be fair to say such people include many in the black community?
 
opendebate said:
So how do you tell the difference between legitimate real disadvantages and excuses?
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Dont have a leg? OK...thats a disadvantage. Sad because 150 years ago somebodies great great grammas slave owner chopped off their leg and you just have never gotten over it? Thats an excuse.

Lots of people suffer disadvantage. They grow up in ****ty home environments. They grow up with NO home environments. They experience abandonment, abuse, neglect. Life sucks...grab a bucket.

Look at the current case being discussed. No racial or ethnic history caused Trayvon Martin to turn around from his daddy's girlfriends house and hunt down the guy that was following him and then jump the guy and commence to beating him down. His actions werent racially motivated and frankly, not all that uncommon for ANY typical hotheaded 17 year old. When this thing first kicked off I stated then and now...I can understand being jacked up that someone was following you. Turns out...the guy following him wasnt a racist white skinhead looking for a negro to kill. It wasnt a predatory white child molester. Turns out...the guy was a resident, a neighborhood watch officer. He happened to be Hispanic...but thats not at all relevant. Race...was not a factor. Making race a factor is a ploy by race-baiters and idiots. Trayvon Martin could have been any hotheaded 17 year old that reacted poorly to being followed by a neighborhood watch officer. Had he gone home, not a problem. Had he confronted Zimmerman and said hey...why are you following me? And been told "Im a neighborhood watch officer and I have never seen you here before and its 11 at night" and had TM responded...Oh...cool! Glad to know that. I'm Trayvon and Im staying with Ms Jean...she is my dads girlfriend and just lives right over there" then the appropriate response from Zimmerman would/should have been, OK...cool...nice to meet you. I'm George. I stay across the street over there. If you need anything, holler." Pooof...done.

But thats not what happened. 17 year old kid got pissed and attacked the neighborhood watch guy and commenced to kicking the neighborhood watch guys ass and after getting his head bashed into the ground, the guy pulled a gun and shot the attacker. Didnt have to happen. Whole lot of things could have been handled a whole lot better. And yet...here we are.

Race wasnt a reason and shouldnt be thrown out there as an excuse. Actions, behaviors, consequences...NOW we are talking.
 
Arbo said:
So along the lines of 'honest discussion', would it be fair to say such people include many in the black community?
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Go back and re-read the statement, it excludes no one and includes everyone who refuses to accept the possibility that they are part of the problem.

Now, do you get it?
 
VanceMack said:
Dont have a leg? OK...thats a disadvantage. Sad because 150 years ago somebodies great great grammas slave owner chopped off their leg and you just have never gotten over it? Thats an excuse.

Lots of people suffer disadvantage. They grow up in ****ty home environments. They grow up with NO home environments. They experience abandonment, abuse, neglect. Life sucks...grab a bucket.

Look at the current case being discussed. No racial or ethnic history caused Trayvon Martin to turn around from his daddy's girlfriends house and hunt down the guy that was following him and then jump the guy and commence to beating him down. His actions werent racially motivated and frankly, not all that uncommon for ANY typical hotheaded 17 year old. When this thing first kicked off I stated then and now...I can understand being jacked up that someone was following you. Turns out...the guy following him wasnt a racist white skinhead looking for a negro to kill. It wasnt a predatory white child molester. Turns out...the guy was a resident, a neighborhood watch officer. He happened to be Hispanic...but thats not at all relevant. Race...was not a factor. Making race a factor is a ploy by race-baiters and idiots. Trayvon Martin could have been any hotheaded 17 year old that reacted poorly to being followed by a neighborhood watch officer. Had he gone home, not a problem. Had he confronted Zimmerman and said hey...why are you following me? And been told "Im a neighborhood watch officer and I have never seen you here before and its 11 at night" and had TM responded...Oh...cool! Glad to know that. I'm Trayvon and Im staying with Ms Jean...she is my dads girlfriend and just lives right over there" then the appropriate response from Zimmerman would/should have been, OK...cool...nice to meet you. I'm George. I stay across the street over there. If you need anything, holler." Pooof...done.

But thats not what happened. 17 year old kid got pissed and attacked the neighborhood watch guy and commenced to kicking the neighborhood watch guys ass and after getting his head bashed into the ground, the guy pulled a gun and shot the attacker. Didnt have to happen. Whole lot of things could have been handled a whole lot better. And yet...here we are.

Race wasnt a reason and shouldnt be thrown out there as an excuse. Actions, behaviors, consequences...NOW we are talking.
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Are you capable of discussing the statements you have made here without getting into personal attacks? I would like to respond but honestly, I'm pretty tired of the nonsense.
 
opendebate said:
Are you capable of discussing the statements you have made here without getting into personal attacks? I would like to respond but honestly, I'm pretty tired of the nonsense.
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Who did I attack?

See the last sentence...thats what it is truly all about.
 
Yes, opendebate. I agree with the article that I posted. What would you like to ask?
 
VanceMack said:
Who did I attack?

See the last sentence...thats what it is truly all about.
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I am not accusing you of attacking. It just happens a lot here, I don't know your posts and I would rather not go in blind. Your post is a little aggressive so I was just asking if you were up for it? Some people don't really want a healthy debate, they just want to scream their opinions at you. Just testing the water.
 
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