An Honest Conversation about Race (1 Viewer)

[Josie]

Here they go again. “They” being the outrage-machine, the institutional left. Now that the jury returned the only possible verdict based on the actual evidence in the Zimmerman case, we’re being told we need to have a “national conversation” or an “honest conversation” about race. I would actually welcome an honest discussion about race, but the truth is that’s not the conversation we’re going to have.

You see, an honest discussion about race wouldn’t start with the premise that Trayvon Martin is the Emmett Till of the 21st century. Till was tortured then murdered in cold blood for flirting with a white woman. At the time Trayvon Martin was killed, he was sitting on top of George Zimmerman, pounding Zimmerman’s head into a concrete sidewalk. We’re not having an honest conversation until those things are acknowledged by the people demanding an honest dialogue.

An honest conversation wouldn’t start with completely ignoring the fact that Trayvon Martin was in Sanford, Florida because he had been suspended from school. Right about now is where the hucksters will claim I’m “blaming the victim.” But this is exactly my point. If we’re supposed to be having an open and frank discussion, we also have to look at all the factors that may have led to this tragic incident. No, instead we’re told we’re not allowed to look into why it could be that a 17 year old boy walking home from 7-11 thought confronting an unknown man was an option.

By all accounts, Martin had gotten away. That’s corroborated by Zimmerman’s and Rachel Jeantel’s testimony. Per Zimmerman’s account, Trayvon had run down the path behind the townhomes and was out of sight. Jeantel testified that Trayvon had made it to his father’s backyard – well out of sight from Zimmerman, we now know – when she was on the phone with him that night. If we’re going to have an honest discussion about race, we need to have an honest discussion about why Trayvon Martin chose to go and confront Zimmerman after he had gotten away. I have yet to see one commentator on the subject ask why Martin didn’t call 911. We’re not having an honest discussion about this situation so how can we possibly have an honest dialogue about the broader issue?

I’ve seen many race commentators, even the President, suggesting that Martin was somehow acting out in frustration that he was being followed because he was black. What we do know is that Rachel Jeantel and Martin thought Zimmerman was a “creepy ass cracka.” Why would a normal 17 year old kid go and confront an unknown man he thought was “creepy”? We’re not having that discussion because the race commentators don’t really want to have that discussion.

Unlike President Obama, who tried to say he could have been Trayvon Martin 35 years ago, I actually grew up in a rough part of New York. By the time I was 17, I had seen racism and bigotry from a perspective Obama could never have experienced. I’m a “white Hispanic.” For most of my childhood I lived in a predominantly black neighborhood in Queens called Jamaica. I was the “minority.” In 8th grade my family moved to Woodside which is a “whiter” neighborhood. And guess what? I was the “minority” there too. But it took the bigots a little longer to figure that out because I could pass for an Italian / Mediterranean. I got to see bigots be bigots until the point where they realized I wasn’t one of them. I got to interact with them behind the facade and watched their faces as they realized they’d been exposed. I got to enjoy seeing them try to “make up for it” and be extra nice to me. I’ve seen racism and bigotry from both sides. I was discriminated against by both blacks and whites. Anyway, the point is I took offense at Obama pretending he had some common ground – besides skin color – with Trayvon Martin. I have more common ground with Trayvon than Obama will ever have. And at the age of 17, I would have never confronted a man I didn’t know in a dark alley when I had gotten away and was a few yards from my home. Ever.

But we can’t have that conversation. We’re not allowed to discuss, during this “honest conversation”, the motivations of both people involved in the incident that caused the “honest conversation.” If we were, we’d be discussing the hip-hop culture and its macho bull****. We’d be discussing broken families. We would be discussing street fighting. We would be discussing how a kid gets suspended three times from school. We’d dive into the world Trayvon Martin lived in to see what transpires during 17 years of life that would give someone the idea that jumping a guy you didn’t know was a thing you could do without serious consequences.

But we’re not having that conversation. We’re not being honest.

Instead, we’re getting “Trayvon Martin = Emmett Till.” Instead, we’re getting “You’re a racist if you agree with the jury’s verdict.” Instead, we’re getting “America is a racist country.”

An honest conversation about race? Bring it on.

But that’s not going to happen.
- See more at: http://www.therightsphere.com/2013/07/an-honest-conversation-about-race/#sthash.JwruTvFt.dpuf

 

[Arbo]

Spot on and well said. :applaud:applaud

 

[DashingAmerican]

That's racist.

 

[Ahlevah]

Why would a normal 17 year old kid go and confront an unknown man he thought was “creepy”?

Not only confront, but then attack the "creepy ass crackah" and then be painted as "child victim." Makes me want to vomit.

 

[StillBallin75]

ho lee ****. blaming hip-hop for Trayvon's actions is like blaming the NFL for Aaron Hernandez's actions. It's ****ing asinine. All of the things you listed (broken families, suspensions, etc.) are symptoms of a wider societal problem. They are not causes in and of themselves.

a TRULY honest discussion about race would treat these issues as part of a bigger picture, instead of being intellectually lazy and saying "oh it's just their black culture" when it comes down to the causes.

Why did Trayvon not call 911? Well you have to begin to understand that traditionally a lot of blacks don't trust the police to respond on time if at all to their problems. Why is that? well we can talk about it, but the conversation can't just start with "well trayvon didn't call the police because he's stupid and listens to hip hop." Why did trayvon confront Zimmerman? I dunno, maybe he was "standing his ground"? Maybe Zimmerman was pursuing him so he had no choice but to confront him? Did Trayvon no Zimmerman was armed?

If we're going to have to really be honest about race, we can't start this conversation was "oh this kid was a wannabe thug who wanted to beat the **** out of a creepy ass cracker because he watched one too many hip hop videos." A real honest conversation about race doesn't begin with trying to blame the victims.

 

[Arbo]

ho lee ****. blaming hip-hop for Trayvon's actions is like blaming the NFL for Aaron Hernandez's actions. It's ****ing asinine. All of the things you listed (broken families, suspensions, etc.) are symptoms of a wider societal problem. They are not causes in and of themselves.

@Jose, hey look it only too until post 5 for someone to do exactly what the OP said happens...

 

[Rainman05]

There is no such thing as an honest conversation about race in a pluriracial society at a public discourse level. Why? Because not everybody who can participate is qualified or of a proper intellectual capacity. You can't have a discussion about race with Jesse Jacksons in the spotlight. You can't have a discussion about race with Rush Limbaughs in the spotlight. You can't have a discussion about race with Obama in the spotlight.

You want a discussion about race? Bring in men and women of caliber of all colors and creeds. Kick out the hippies and the people with a short fuse. There is no such thing as "we are all one race" or "there is no such thing as race". Bring in people who stand up for the conventional POV and from the most radical POVs. And let them talk it out. And then put money into funding research to sort out the question marks that need to answered everytime there is no consensus answer to find. And then, accept that answer as truth.

You know why there are treatments in medicine specific to each race for specific diseases? Because there are racial differences. Do you know why there are warnings in the black community about diabetes? Because blacks get diabetes more often and easier. You know why doctors aren't racists for giving different treatments to different races when it's needed? Because it's god damn needed in order to ensure the best care.

But since the public at large is stupid and any attempt to bring an elevated sense of discussion will be ignored or disrupted. So you have short, stupid, impotent explanations to complex problems which usually adds to the problem instead of solving it.

 

[shrubnose]

Here they go again. “They” being the outrage-machine, the institutional left. Now that the jury returned the only possible verdict based on the actual evidence in the Zimmerman case, we’re being told we need to have a “national conversation” or an “honest conversation” about race. I would actually welcome an honest discussion about race, but the truth is that’s not the conversation we’re going to have.

You see, an honest discussion about race wouldn’t start with the premise that Trayvon Martin is the Emmett Till of the 21st century. Till was tortured then murdered in cold blood for flirting with a white woman. At the time Trayvon Martin was killed, he was sitting on top of George Zimmerman, pounding Zimmerman’s head into a concrete sidewalk. We’re not having an honest conversation until those things are acknowledged by the people demanding an honest dialogue.

An honest conversation wouldn’t start with completely ignoring the fact that Trayvon Martin was in Sanford, Florida because he had been suspended from school. Right about now is where the hucksters will claim I’m “blaming the victim.” But this is exactly my point. If we’re supposed to be having an open and frank discussion, we also have to look at all the factors that may have led to this tragic incident. No, instead we’re told we’re not allowed to look into why it could be that a 17 year old boy walking home from 7-11 thought confronting an unknown man was an option.

By all accounts, Martin had gotten away. That’s corroborated by Zimmerman’s and Rachel Jeantel’s testimony. Per Zimmerman’s account, Trayvon had run down the path behind the townhomes and was out of sight. Jeantel testified that Trayvon had made it to his father’s backyard – well out of sight from Zimmerman, we now know – when she was on the phone with him that night. If we’re going to have an honest discussion about race, we need to have an honest discussion about why Trayvon Martin chose to go and confront Zimmerman after he had gotten away. I have yet to see one commentator on the subject ask why Martin didn’t call 911. We’re not having an honest discussion about this situation so how can we possibly have an honest dialogue about the broader issue?

I’ve seen many race commentators, even the President, suggesting that Martin was somehow acting out in frustration that he was being followed because he was black. What we do know is that Rachel Jeantel and Martin thought Zimmerman was a “creepy ass cracka.” Why would a normal 17 year old kid go and confront an unknown man he thought was “creepy”? We’re not having that discussion because the race commentators don’t really want to have that discussion.

Unlike President Obama, who tried to say he could have been Trayvon Martin 35 years ago, I actually grew up in a rough part of New York. By the time I was 17, I had seen racism and bigotry from a perspective Obama could never have experienced. I’m a “white Hispanic.” For most of my childhood I lived in a predominantly black neighborhood in Queens called Jamaica. I was the “minority.” In 8th grade my family moved to Woodside which is a “whiter” neighborhood. And guess what? I was the “minority” there too. But it took the bigots a little longer to figure that out because I could pass for an Italian / Mediterranean. I got to see bigots be bigots until the point where they realized I wasn’t one of them. I got to interact with them behind the facade and watched their faces as they realized they’d been exposed. I got to enjoy seeing them try to “make up for it” and be extra nice to me. I’ve seen racism and bigotry from both sides. I was discriminated against by both blacks and whites. Anyway, the point is I took offense at Obama pretending he had some common ground – besides skin color – with Trayvon Martin. I have more common ground with Trayvon than Obama will ever have. And at the age of 17, I would have never confronted a man I didn’t know in a dark alley when I had gotten away and was a few yards from my home. Ever.

But we can’t have that conversation. We’re not allowed to discuss, during this “honest conversation”, the motivations of both people involved in the incident that caused the “honest conversation.” If we were, we’d be discussing the hip-hop culture and its macho bull****. We’d be discussing broken families. We would be discussing street fighting. We would be discussing how a kid gets suspended three times from school. We’d dive into the world Trayvon Martin lived in to see what transpires during 17 years of life that would give someone the idea that jumping a guy you didn’t know was a thing you could do without serious consequences.

But we’re not having that conversation. We’re not being honest.

Instead, we’re getting “Trayvon Martin = Emmett Till.” Instead, we’re getting “You’re a racist if you agree with the jury’s verdict.” Instead, we’re getting “America is a racist country.”

An honest conversation about race? Bring it on.

But that’s not going to happen.
- See more at: An Honest Conversation About Race | The Right Sphere

America isn't a 'racist country', But anyone who denies the fact that there are a lot of White racists in the USA is out of touch with reality.

Time and change will eventually solve the USA's racism problem. The racist,xenophobic,misogynistic, homophobes on the far right will not be part of that solution, they will always be part of the problem up to the time that they fade away and disappear from sight.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.

 

[ttwtt78640]

ho lee ****. blaming hip-hop for Trayvon's actions is like blaming the NFL for Aaron Hernandez's actions. It's ****ing asinine. All of the things you listed (broken families, suspensions, etc.) are symptoms of a wider societal problem. They are not causes in and of themselves.

a TRULY honest discussion about race would treat these issues as part of a bigger picture, instead of being intellectually lazy and saying "oh it's just their black culture" when it comes down to the causes.

Why did Trayvon not call 911? Well you have to begin to understand that traditionally a lot of blacks don't trust the police to respond on time if at all to their problems. Why is that? well we can talk about it, but the conversation can't just start with "well trayvon didn't call the police because he's stupid and listens to hip hop." Why did trayvon confront Zimmerman? I dunno, maybe he was "standing his ground"? Maybe Zimmerman was pursuing him so he had no choice but to confront him? Did Trayvon no Zimmerman was armed?

If we're going to have to really be honest about race, we can't start this conversation was "oh this kid was a wannabe thug who wanted to beat the **** out of a creepy ass cracker because he watched one too many hip hop videos."

That is indeed a very good place to start when discussing crime/criminal justice matters - actually using the American law enforcement and criminal justice system. Perhaps it is high time that "African-American traditions" change and we, as an entire nation, live by and respect that legal system. Using street justice and "creepy ass cracka" nonsnese have shown us how an "innocent" unarmed teenager can get themselves killed over basically nothing. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why Martin chose to knock down, pin and continue to beat Zimmerman. Perhaps you can tell us why Jeantel thought it perfectly acceptable to lie under oath, and to investigators and purposefully omit "upsetting" things. Perhaps you can explain why "snitching" (reporting crime to police) is a very serious offense in "African-American culture".

 

[Fisher]

There cannot be an honest discussion if the names Martin or Zimmerman are part of it because too many white folks are having their "Suck it, we won" moment.

 

[Medusa]

as long as only rightist ones claim martin was guilty and deserved to be killed ,it is never a satisfactory and agreeable kind of argument

 

[Arbo]

America isn't a 'racist country', But anyone who denies the fact that there are a lot of White racists in the USA is out of touch with reality.

Time and change will eventually solve the USA's racism problem. The racist,xenophobic,misogynistic, homophobes on the far right will not be part of that solution, they will always be part of the problem up to the time that they fade away and disappear from sight.

Hey look, another one that fits the description in the OP of why there can be no 'honest discussion'.

BTW, there has been a hell of a lot of 'time and change' since man took his first steps on this planet, and yet man x still hates man y. So good luck with the false belief that 'time' will solve any issues.

Edit, and I see two more posts by similar people that are part of the problem when it comes to having an 'honest discussion'. I'd bet money none of them see themselves and their attitudes as part of the problem.

 

[CRUE CAB]

The best and most informative conversation about race is the one that never happens.
Its 2013. Live your live in a respectful manner and no one will care what color you are.

 

[CRUE CAB]

as long as only rightist ones claim martin was guilty and deserved to be killed ,it is never a satisfactory and agreeable kind of argument

I really dont care what color Martin was, he punched a man then went about beating him into the concrete. I would say everything I have said about him, had he been white.

 

[CalGun]

What a joke. You speak of which you know nothing. Republican Party runs scared to death of true race hating people and I'm glad they do. This case involves no one of such hatred. I worked in LE and hd the distinct pleasure of encountering s racist organization that went over the lines and I was very happy to send 7 of them to prison for conspiracy and prevent them from committing a crime against others. I had to interact with that group, they make my skin crawl and I doubt very many people in this country have ever really encountered such hatred so I get irritated when some one that knows NOTHING about the Republicsn party would claim it would support such people.

America isn't a 'racist country', But anyone who denies the fact that there are a lot of White racists in the USA is out of touch with reality.

Time and change will eventually solve the USA's racism problem. The racist,xenophobic,misogynistic, homophobes on the far right will not be part of that solution, they will always be part of the problem up to the time that they fade away and disappear from sight.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.

 

[Josie]

I tried having this discussion with one of my black friends and she immediately got defensive and cried racism. :sigh:

 

[Medusa]

I really dont care what color Martin was, he punched a man then went about beating him into the concrete. I would say everything I have said about him, had he been white.

that man was following him

 

[CRUE CAB]

I tried having this discussion with one of my black friends and she immediately got defensive and cried racism. :sigh:

My black friend say Martin was a fool that got what he was asking for.
Docs words were, dont mess with people.

 

[CalGun]

And as long as leftist want to claim a community volunteer should just let himself be liked by a juvenile thug because of the color of his skin there will never be any kind of agreeable discussion. I also find it offensive that media / govt wants us to honor such a thug and I could care less what race he is. I care only that he tried to kill another and was demonstratively heading down the path in life that creates far more problems then worth.

as long as only rightist ones claim martin was guilty and deserved to be killed ,it is never a satisfactory and agreeable kind of argument

 

[joko104]

I can't even begin to explain how tired I am of hearing the media talking heads and political talking heads talk about race. I think the vast majority of people don't think about race or racism at all, and among ordinary people who do it doesn't mean much to them. I also think the incessantly declaring this severely handicaps African-Americans primarily by giving them big chips on their shoulders and thinking somehow shouting out "racist!" at other people helps them.

It is American culture that virtually everyone blames others for their life, their failures, the unfairness of life, AND for their own crippling psychological disturbances.

 

[opendebate]

Here they go again. “They” being the outrage-machine, the institutional left. Now that the jury returned the only possible verdict based on the actual evidence in the Zimmerman case, we’re being told we need to have a “national conversation” or an “honest conversation” about race. I would actually welcome an honest discussion about race, but the truth is that’s not the conversation we’re going to have.

You see, an honest discussion about race wouldn’t start with the premise that Trayvon Martin is the Emmett Till of the 21st century. Till was tortured then murdered in cold blood for flirting with a white woman. At the time Trayvon Martin was killed, he was sitting on top of George Zimmerman, pounding Zimmerman’s head into a concrete sidewalk. We’re not having an honest conversation until those things are acknowledged by the people demanding an honest dialogue.

An honest conversation wouldn’t start with completely ignoring the fact that Trayvon Martin was in Sanford, Florida because he had been suspended from school. Right about now is where the hucksters will claim I’m “blaming the victim.” But this is exactly my point. If we’re supposed to be having an open and frank discussion, we also have to look at all the factors that may have led to this tragic incident. No, instead we’re told we’re not allowed to look into why it could be that a 17 year old boy walking home from 7-11 thought confronting an unknown man was an option.

By all accounts, Martin had gotten away. That’s corroborated by Zimmerman’s and Rachel Jeantel’s testimony. Per Zimmerman’s account, Trayvon had run down the path behind the townhomes and was out of sight. Jeantel testified that Trayvon had made it to his father’s backyard – well out of sight from Zimmerman, we now know – when she was on the phone with him that night. If we’re going to have an honest discussion about race, we need to have an honest discussion about why Trayvon Martin chose to go and confront Zimmerman after he had gotten away. I have yet to see one commentator on the subject ask why Martin didn’t call 911. We’re not having an honest discussion about this situation so how can we possibly have an honest dialogue about the broader issue?

I’ve seen many race commentators, even the President, suggesting that Martin was somehow acting out in frustration that he was being followed because he was black. What we do know is that Rachel Jeantel and Martin thought Zimmerman was a “creepy ass cracka.” Why would a normal 17 year old kid go and confront an unknown man he thought was “creepy”? We’re not having that discussion because the race commentators don’t really want to have that discussion.

Unlike President Obama, who tried to say he could have been Trayvon Martin 35 years ago, I actually grew up in a rough part of New York. By the time I was 17, I had seen racism and bigotry from a perspective Obama could never have experienced. I’m a “white Hispanic.” For most of my childhood I lived in a predominantly black neighborhood in Queens called Jamaica. I was the “minority.” In 8th grade my family moved to Woodside which is a “whiter” neighborhood. And guess what? I was the “minority” there too. But it took the bigots a little longer to figure that out because I could pass for an Italian / Mediterranean. I got to see bigots be bigots until the point where they realized I wasn’t one of them. I got to interact with them behind the facade and watched their faces as they realized they’d been exposed. I got to enjoy seeing them try to “make up for it” and be extra nice to me. I’ve seen racism and bigotry from both sides. I was discriminated against by both blacks and whites. Anyway, the point is I took offense at Obama pretending he had some common ground – besides skin color – with Trayvon Martin. I have more common ground with Trayvon than Obama will ever have. And at the age of 17, I would have never confronted a man I didn’t know in a dark alley when I had gotten away and was a few yards from my home. Ever.

But we can’t have that conversation. We’re not allowed to discuss, during this “honest conversation”, the motivations of both people involved in the incident that caused the “honest conversation.” If we were, we’d be discussing the hip-hop culture and its macho bull****. We’d be discussing broken families. We would be discussing street fighting. We would be discussing how a kid gets suspended three times from school. We’d dive into the world Trayvon Martin lived in to see what transpires during 17 years of life that would give someone the idea that jumping a guy you didn’t know was a thing you could do without serious consequences.

But we’re not having that conversation. We’re not being honest.

Instead, we’re getting “Trayvon Martin = Emmett Till.” Instead, we’re getting “You’re a racist if you agree with the jury’s verdict.” Instead, we’re getting “America is a racist country.”

An honest conversation about race? Bring it on.

But that’s not going to happen.
- See more at: An Honest Conversation About Race | The Right Sphere

Maybe you can't have an honest conversation about it because you can't see your own views that could easily be interpreted as racist . You seem to consistently want people to see things your way or they are wrong and they are stupid or they are a fool. Frankly, I think you can do better. I have faith in you. I also have faith in conservatives, independents etc. as a whole and am certain this kind of dialogue is indeed possible if people make an honest effort to hear instead of be heard

 

[joko104]

And as long as leftist want to claim a community volunteer should just let himself be liked by a juvenile thug because of the color of his skin there will never be any kind of agreeable discussion. I also find it offensive that media / govt wants us to honor such a thug and I could care less what race he is. I care only that he tried to kill another and was demonstratively heading down the path in life that creates far more problems then worth.

It is despicable that Trayvon Martin is being presented as representing the typical African-American teenager and that he is a martyr of the African-American civil rights movement.

 

[Naptyme]

America isn't a 'racist country', But anyone who denies the fact that there are a lot of White racists in the USA is out of touch with reality.

Time and change will eventually solve the USA's racism problem. The racist,xenophobic,misogynistic, homophobes on the far right will not be part of that solution, they will always be part of the problem up to the time that they fade away and disappear from sight.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.

Considering the sheer number of white people in this country I don't believe it is a stretch to say there are more racist white people than the entire population of african-americans. I honestly believed it was slowly beginning to die out (quite literally with the past generations). However it seems to me that the past few years it has been increasing. My personal opinion is both liberal and conserative media is purposefully stoking the flames of racism just so they can have something to report on.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

I saw the thread title and thought that maybe, just maybe, a conservative on this forum was opening their mind. Then, I saw the first four words: "Here they go again." And it went downhill from there. What a misleading thread title (you have a history of those, by the way). You aren't interested in an "honest conversation about race" - it seems that most conservatives aren't. But honestly, that's okay with me. You have to be ready for that kind of conversation in order to have it. It doesn't seem most conservatives are ready - the rest of us will be here if you ever are.

 

[joko104]

Maybe you can't have an honest conversation about it because you can't see your own racist views. You seem to consistently want people to see things your way or they are wrong and they are stupid or they are a fool. Frankly, I think you can do better. I have faith in you

It would seem the correct response she should make is "No, you're the racist" back to your complaining of others insulting you by using a worse personal insult yourself.