An end to racism

[windovervocalcords]

Thus, nothing has really changed, except on the surface. Yay you! You won racism!

???????????????

 

[windovervocalcords]

You may be able to minimize "isms", but it's impossible to eliminate them. People like to view themselves as part of a group. They identify with that group and many take a dislike to groups they see as different or opposite. It's been going on since the first tribe of people ran into another tribe of people. I guarantee they did not like each other. From sea to shining sea people embrace "isms". Always have. Always will. And don't think because steps have been made in fighting one "ism" that it's not being replaced by another one. Cynical? Maybe. But if being right means being cynical I'll take being right.

The 'ism' I fight is cynicism.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

You may be able to minimize "isms", but it's impossible to eliminate them. People like to view themselves as part of a group. They identify with that group and many take a dislike to groups they see as different or opposite. It's been going on since the first tribe of people ran into another tribe of people. I guarantee they did not like each other. From sea to shining sea people embrace "isms". Always have. Always will. And don't think because steps have been made in fighting one "ism" that it's not being replaced by another one. Cynical? Maybe. But if being right means being cynical I'll take being right.

Do you know what's really interesting? Atlanta is a perfect case study in segregation.

 

[stekim]

the 'ism' I fight is cynicism.

And you are clearly losing. Like I said! But at least you aren't black.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

the 'ism' I fight is cynicism.

You're so cute when you get all crusadey.

But it isn't 1964 anymore.

 

[windovervocalcords]

You're so cute when you get all crusadey.

But it isn't 1964 anymore.

Civil rights and equality and liberty are still worth fighting for--we couldn't make any changes without the Gandhi's and the MLK's to inspire us to dream. We can choose to be inspired or choose to be cynical.

 

[stekim]

Do you know what's really interesting? Atlanta is a perfect case study in segregation.

Oh yeah. Atlanta is one of the most segregated places in America. Asians, whites and blacks tend to live amongst others of their "type". Not universally, of course, but the trend is apparent. The most unsegregated place appears at first glance to be midtown. Until you realize that gays identify more as being gay than by skin color, so they migrate there.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Civil rights is still worth fighting for--we couldn't make any changes without the Gandhi's and the MLK's to inspire us to dream. We can choose to be inspired or choose to be cynical.

So, when do you plan to sue the affluent blacks of Atlanta for self-segregating?

 

[stekim]

I'm inspired to be cynical.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I'm inspired to be cynical.

I like cynical idealism.

 

[stekim]

I like cynical idealism.

It means I know I can only do so much. Like with your job. You can help people, but you can't eliminate gangs. That doesn't mean it's a waste of time, but one needs to know one's limits. Ending "isms" isn't going to happen.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

It means I know I can only do so much. Like with your job. You can help people, but you can't eliminate gangs. That doesn't mean it's a waste of time, but one needs to know one's limits. Ending "isms" isn't going to happen.

I think Wind can do it by herself. I have faith in her.

 

[apdst]

Some say it happens when we stop talking about race--others say it happens when a movement for an end to it takes hold in the imagination of the citizens.

What do you say?

I say it's never going to happen. As long as someone can point out yet another example of how whites hate blacks, racism is never going away.

A few years ago, a hangman's noose was just a hangman's noose. Don't let anyone see you with one, now. A hangman's noose is a simple and very useful knot and when I first went to work in the oilfield used them all the time for various purposes on my trucks. Not long after it became one of the hallmarks of racist symbolism, I was told, in no uncertain terms to cease and desist. Today it's a noose, tomorrow it'll be a hoe, or a rake, or what the hell ever. I'm waiting for someone to claim that a mule team pulling a wagon is racist, because slaves hauled cotton out of the fields with the same kind of equipment, or a mule is some referrence to, "40 acres and a mule".

Racism ain't never going away and as long as you continue to beat up on whites for every little chicken**** perception of racism you gaurantee it's survival.

 

[stekim]

I say it's never going to happen. As long as someone can point out yet another example of how whites hate blacks, racism is never going away.

A few years ago, a hangman's noose was just a hangman's noose. Don't let anyone see you with one, now. A hangman's noose is a simple and very useful knot and when I first went to work in the oilfield used them all the time for various purposes on my trucks. Not long after it became one of the hallmarks of racist symbolism, I was told, in no uncertain terms to cease and desist. Today it's a noose, tomorrow it'll be a hoe, or a rake, or what the hell ever. I'm waiting for someone to claim that a mule team pulling a wagon is racist, because slaves hauled cotton out of the fields with the same kind of equipment, or a mule is some referrence to, "40 acres and a mule".

Racism ain't never going away and as long as you continue to beat up on whites for every little chicken**** perception of racism you gaurantee it's survival.

Plus, when whites whine about racism it doesn't help. Talk about a group that needs to shut up.

 

[apdst]

That's why I keep saying that as long as people--especailly white people--keep crying about it, it's never gonna go away. Or, should I say as long as people keep buying into it?

 

[gunner]

I think that to some degree, it will always be a part of us. Who amongst us isn't scared of strangers? Race plays a role in the internal determination that someone is a "stranger" because of how we are wired internally. Education plays a role, in my opinion, in reducing overt racism, but discrimination will always be a part of us. We prefer our friends over strangers. We prefer attractive people over ugly people. We prefer people who share our religious or political views over people who are different.

It is a part of who we are. The ways in which we discriminate change, but discrimination remains.

Those thoughts are manufactured. We are not programmed to like, or dislike a particular person. Your fear stems from YOU, not from the stranger [white-mans fear of black-men]. i,m not scared of a stranger, for being a stranger. But, i would be apprehensive of a stranger acting strange. If you have a diverse circle of friends and are outgoing, not insular in your outlook-you should be able to adapt.

Paul

 

[windovervocalcords]

So, when do you plan to sue the affluent blacks of Atlanta for self-segregating?

As if affluent white folks don't self-segregate.......ho hum.

 

[stekim]

As if affluent white folks don't self-segregate.......ho hum.

Well, they don't prefer to live around poor black people. But that's not racism.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Well, they don't prefer to live around poor black people. But that's not racism.

That's right, and the topic is an end to racism. I suppose you could have made the same point to catz--she is the one who brought up affluent blacks self segregating as a racism issue.

IT is forced segregation that expresses racism.

 

[Gardener]

The ability to understand some of the underlying causes of racism shouldn't necessarily lead one to abandon any desire to lessen its effects. In fact, an understanding of the social mechanisms makes one BETTER able to deal with the issue if one only so desired.

While I agree that xenophobia is natural, and is product of the process where we distinguish between self and otherness in varying degrees, that does not mean I have no empathy for those getting the short end of the stick.

I see two different trains of thought here -- how do we understand it, and what should we do (if anything) to combat it. The ability to understand does not preclude the ability to form moral judgements.

 

[apdst]

As if affluent white folks don't self-segregate.......ho hum.

Affluent blacks don't live in da hood, either.

 

[windovervocalcords]

The ability to understand some of the underlying causes of racism shouldn't necessarily lead one to abandon any desire to lessen its effects. In fact, an understanding of the social mechanisms makes one BETTER able to deal with the issue if one only so desired.

While I agree that xenophobia is natural, and is product of the process where we distinguish between self and otherness in varying degrees, that does not mean I have no empathy for those getting the short end of the stick.

I see two different trains of thought here -- how do we understand it, and what should we do (if anything) to combat it. The ability to understand does not preclude the ability to form moral judgements.

How do we understand racism and what should we do to combat it? Those are the questions I'm interested in.

We don't all agree on what racism is. Some people say it's the institutionalized bias that arises in the criminal justice system for example, which makes the phenomena of a disproportionate number of minorities in prison open to question.

Others label any form of discrimination as racism, such as that which still exists in some places in our country with housing.

Still others label using the N word as racist.

My point is that inspite of our differences we can create a peaceful world, one that is relatively free of discrimination, where we can actualize the dream of MLK and see the view from the mountain top.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Affluent blacks don't live in da hood, either.

Yes. Aflluent people have more choices in housing. Some choose to live in 'da hood' and in racially diverse areas.

Then what happens is a gradual gentrification and pretty soon they make the areas prosperous. Gays and lesbians are reknown for moving into ethnically diverse neighborhoods where we feel more comfortable and gentrifying da hoods.

Having low cost housing continues to be a problem when we have prosperity. In Bend, Oregon, lots of wealthy people have moved in and bought up property but the service industry which they created a need for continues to have problems finding affordable housing.

 

[apdst]

Yes. Aflluent people have more choices in housing. Some choose to live in 'da hood' and in racially diverse areas.

A do-gooder, or two, but not a general rule. I doubt there are very many people who are going to buy a $250,000 home in a run down neighborhood. Well, they would ahve to build it, because there aren't any houses in those neighborhoods that are worth 250 g's.

The black folks that do live in rich neighborhoods don't want an OG walking down their street anymore than a white person in the same neighborhood.

My point is that inspite of our differences we can create a peaceful world, one that is relatively free of discrimination, where we can actualize the dream of MLK and see the view from the mountain top.

That'll never happen. If were suddenly all equal, the Dems would lose millions of votes, because they couldn't run on the, "I'm going to protect you from the racist white man", platform. If discrimination doesn't exist, someone on the Left is going to invent it. The firefighter test in Conneticut. No black firemen passed the test, so there must be racism at work, somewhere. It's rediculous and I, along with alot of other folks in this country, are sick of hearing about it.

Dr. King would spit in the faces of the Civil Rights Industry and the Liberals, if he were still alvie.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

That's right, and the topic is an end to racism. I suppose you could have made the same point to catz--she is the one who brought up affluent blacks self segregating as a racism issue.

IT is forced segregation that expresses racism.

I know that you missed it, though others here did not (Laila, for one). Racism exists WITHIN the black community. It isn't just something that whites do to blacks, it's something blacks do TO THEMSELVES.