An end to racism

[Catz Part Deux]

Funny enough from my experience, it is white people who are the most accepting. Africans ... well, not so much.

Class matters more than race in UK, which is both good and bad in a way

Class is difficult to transcend. There are all sorts of unspoken, non-verbal and verbal cues that tell us about a person's class. The type of words they use, the sports they enjoy, the brands of clothing they wear, the tone of voice and accent they use.

It is hard to strip those things away and make them invisible.

In the U.S., some people acquaint a southern accent with stupidity.

And you know how much accents distinguish a person in the U.K. from being "posh" or working class.

 

[Laila]

And you know how much accents distinguish a person in the U.K. from being "posh" or working class.

Lol yeah.

Non British people couldn't probably distinguish the difference but in Britain you can tell what region a person comes from and what class just by their accent.

I have a very strong cockney accent apparently (i have no idea if it is true) which did use to be looked down upon as 'working class'

 

[WI Crippler]

In the U.S., some people acquaint a southern accent with stupidity.

Its funny, because even in the south there is your stereotypical southern accent, and people who still have what is referred to as a "proper" southern accent, which sounds completely different.

A southern accent is so hard to avoid developing once you move here. I'm currently in transition. I find myself mixing nothern(almost Canadian) accent with a slight southern accent all the time.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Its funny, because even in the south there is your stereotypical southern accent, and people who still have what is referred to as a "proper" southern accent, which sounds completely different.

A southern accent is so hard to avoid developing once you move here. I'm currently in transition. I find myself mixing nothern(almost Canadian) accent with a slight southern accent all the time.

I have a white trash southern accent, because I am descended from hillbillies from South missouri. My good friend, Gail, has a very upscale Southern accent, because her family is "old monied" Southern.

TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

Yankees can't tell the difference, but you sure as hell can tell the difference if you live down here.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

We each deserve a decent shot at health, prosperity and happiness...

Why's that? How does anyone deserve a single damn thing before they're even capable of earning it, or taking it, for themselves?

"Its just what we are" is a cop out. We have evolved genetically, so there is no reason our caveman instincts cant evolve, although at a slower pace.

Except for the fact that our caveman instincts are still perfectly justified and still help us survive in the modern world. We can't trust strangers one iota more than we could ten thousand years ago, and we are still happiest and most secure when we are surrounded by the people who are most like us, our friends and family. Our instincts are good, and we should trust them.

People whose family and childhood friends are of different races learn not to be racist, but they're still just as insular and tribal as anyone else. It's our belief in primitive superstitions like "race" that is at fault, not our instinctual tendency toward xenophobia and prejudice.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I have a very strong cockney accent apparently (i have no idea if it is true) which did use to be looked down upon as 'working class'

The same holds true in the U.S. There are the elite prep school northeastern accents, and then there are the brooklyn and bronx and philly and jersey accents, very white working class. There is a Texas accent which is distinct from a hill country (South Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, West Virginia) accent, which is distinct from the several very different southern accents that exist in Georgia.

I think a cockney accent sounds cool, personally.

But, in the U.S., anyone with a british accent, generically, is assumed to be better educated and more upper class than the average American.

Just in my community, lower class southern blacks sound TOTALLY different from upper class southern blacks.

 

[WI Crippler]

Yankees can't tell the difference, but you sure as hell can tell the difference if you live down here.

To be fair I probably couldn't tell the difference between someone from Bwoston, or New Joisey, but they could.

The first time I heard the upscale southern accent, it really threw me for a loop. I had no idea where the woman was from. I thought she was some foreigner that was just really proper with her english because she didn't know any slang.

 

[Laila]

I think a cockney accent sounds cool, personally.

But, in the U.S., anyone with a british accent, generically, is assumed to be better educated and more upper class than the average American.

Just in my community, lower class southern blacks sound TOTALLY different from upper class southern blacks.

You can also tell by where they live geographically. Certain areas, especially country estates signify wealth.

Really? I have never heard of such a thing.
I've spoken to Americans before when i bump into them in C london and they are lost but no, they don't appear fazed at all
I think it is more the sterotype some Americans have of Britain. Tea, Queen, love shakespeare, unbearably posh (which we all aren't) rather than the accent in itself

I live in South London in a typically very wealthy area and the secondary school i went to had a large group of middle classes and cockney accents was seen as a minus amongst that 'elite'

 

[Anima]

Lol yeah.

Non British people couldn't probably distinguish the difference but in Britain you can tell what region a person comes from and what class just by their accent.

I have a very strong cockney accent apparently (i have no idea if it is true) which did use to be looked down upon as 'working class'

Mhm, the same applies is Scotland, really. I have a Glaswegian accent, which is looked down on as "common" because Glasgow as a city has a lot of problems with poverty and crime.

There's also an added tension up here between whether or not the language you speak and the words you use are closer to Standard English, or Scots. The west coast tends to be a predominantly Scots speaking area, whereas the east coast and east-central Scotland, tend to use a dialect closer to Standard English. English speakers think we're low-class, and we return the favour with terms like "Anglo Jocks."

We as a species just seem unable to get along without erecting all these artificial barriers to keep people out, and keep them in their place.

 

[Laila]

Mhm, the same applies is Scotland, really. I have a Glaswegian accent, which is looked down on as "common" because Glasgow as a city has a lot of problems with poverty and crime.

There's also an added tension up here between whether or not the language you speak and the words you use are closer to Standard English, or Scots. The west coast tends to be a predominantly Scots speaking area, whereas the east coast and east-central Scotland, tend to use a dialect closer to Standard English. English speakers think we're low-class, and we return the favour with terms like "Anglo Jocks."

We as a species just seem unable to get along without erecting all these artificial barriers to keep people out, and keep them in their place.

Regional boundaries are really strong.
The scots i have ran into dislike the English, as if they are still holding a grudge for what occured hundreds of years ago seriously

No better than England then.
Southerners which is what i am is always accused of looking down on Northerners, which we don't. I think they just have a inferiority complex so much so that Harman introduced that bill to stop discrimination against northerners.

And lol at 'Anglo-jocks'
I can see how subtle you lot are at insulting =P

 

[Anima]

Regional boundaries are really strong.
The scots i have ran into dislike the English, as if they are still holding a grudge for what occured hundreds of years ago seriously.

I can't speak for the folks you ran into, but I wouldn't say most of us dislike the English, really. It's more of a sbiling rivalry thing. There's people who dislike the English, and I've met English people who dislike us (like that editorial in the Times a few years back that talked about "Scots sitting in dirt huts around their peat fires"), but I'd say their the minority in both our countries.

No better than England then.
Southerners which is what i am is always accused of looking down on Northerners, which we don't. I think they just have a inferiority complex so much so that Harman introduced that bill to stop discrimination against northerners.

I heard about that, yeah, and I thought it was utterly ridiculous. There's always going to be regional rivalry, and you can't change that with silly bills.

And lol at 'Anglo-jocks'
I can see how subtle you lot are at insulting =P

lol Oh yeah, subtle as a slap in the face. That actually dates back to when academics in Edinburgh, around the time of the Union, would run seminars to help Scottish people purge Scots from their dialect to sound more like the English, (and the English had nothing nice to say about us or our language at that point either) so that's a really, really old term.

 

[Laila]

I can't speak for the folks you ran into, but I wouldn't say most of us dislike the English, really. It's more of a sbiling rivalry thing. There's people who dislike the English, and I've met English people who dislike us (like that editorial in the Times a few years back that talked about "Scots sitting in dirt huts around their peat fires"), but I'd say their the minority in both our countries.

Oh so have i.
And i'm almost dumbfounded they still remember what occured decades ago. Let it go you weirdos

I heard about that, yeah, and I thought it was utterly ridiculous. There's always going to be regional rivalry, and you can't change that with silly bills.

lol Oh yeah, subtle as a slap in the face. That actually dates back to when academics in Edinburgh, around the time of the Union, would run seminars to help Scottish people purge Scots from their dialect to sound more like the English, (and the English had nothing nice to say about us or our language at that point either) so that's a really, really old term.

There has also been anger about London hosting Olympics (i know right?)
And rugby world cup, and possible footbal cup if we win it.

Well ... i'm black so that doesn't count me right? I mean, i know i'm english but i'm not Anglo lol xD

 

[Anima]

Oh so have i.
And i'm almost dumbfounded they still remember what occured decades ago. Let it go you weirdos.

Quite frankly, yeah. Both sides need to move into the 21st century and realise that no matter what happens, we'll always be the other nation's closest neighbour, and we need to get along.

There has also been anger about London hosting Olympics (i know right?)

I didn't see much of that, although I'm sure some people were.

And rugby world cup,

Again, haven't seen much. I think that's probably from the same minority.

and possible footbal cup if we win it.

To be fair, when England wins the football, they never shut up about it, so I'll give you that one!

Well ... i'm black so that doesn't count me right? I mean, i know i'm english but i'm not Anglo lol xD

lol I think we can find it in our hearts to give you a pass.

 

[Laila]

To be fair, when England wins the football, they never shut up about it, so I'll give you that one!

lol I think we can find it in our hearts to give you a pass.

Woop! How lovely of you

To be fair to us, when do we ever win it? When we win, we deserve to shout about it because it is so damn rare lol

When England is in the final or something, that is the only time you will see me shouting at the screen watching Football

 

[Anima]

Woop! How lovely of you

To be fair to us, when do we ever win it? When we win, we deserve to shout about it because it is so damn rare lol

When England is in the final or something, that is the only time you will see me shouting at the screen watching Football

lol Okay, you have a good point there! I know the feeling, I hate tennis usually but I watched all of Murray's matches at Wimbeldon, and I was wncing and cheering and shouting and getting right into the spirit. I think this may have been the first Wimbledon that actually got a decent amount of Scottish viewers, becase usually we're just not bothered about it.

 

[Laila]

lol Okay, you have a good point there! I know the feeling, I hate tennis usually but I watched all of Murray's matches at Wimbeldon, and I was wncing and cheering and shouting and getting right into the spirit. I think this may have been the first Wimbledon that actually got a decent amount of Scottish viewers, becase usually we're just not bothered about it.

I watch wimbledom whenever it is on every time so this one was nothing new.
But MTW Russell was hilarious on Murray.
How fickle the British are =D

 

[windovervocalcords]

keep your faith to yourself.

when you have evidence you can share it.

I have faith in human beings ability to change their attitudes about race. Life experience informs that faith.

We now have a mixed race POTUS. That would never have happened in 1964.
Attitudes can and do change.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I have faith in human beings ability to change their attitudes. Life experience informs that faith.

Faith is inherently irrational.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Faith is inherently irrational.

Taking one word out of context is inherently irrational.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Taking one word out of context is inherently irrational.

I don't believe that it was out of context. This entire thread has shown how arbitrary discrimination is. Your faith is not in line with history, science, or human sociology.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I don't believe that it was out of context. This entire thread has shown how arbitrary discrimination is. Your faith is not in line with history, science, or human sociology.

Excuse me. We have Barack Obama in office. That would not have happened in the past. Attitudes have changed. This is the truth.

Racism exists, but not in the same way it once did in our country. Attitudes have changed. That's the truth of how things are. Martin Luther King had a dream and we, as a nation, have moved significantly in the direction of his dream.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Excuse me. We have Barack Obama in office. That would not have happened in the past. Attitudes have changed. This is the truth.

Racism exists, but not in the same way it once did in our country. Attitudes have changed. That's the truth of how things are.

Classism, however, remains alive and well.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Classism, however, remains alive and well.

I agree, catz.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I agree, catz.

Thus, nothing has really changed, except on the surface. Yay you! You won racism!

 

[stekim]

You may be able to minimize "isms", but it's impossible to eliminate them. People like to view themselves as part of a group. They identify with that group and many take a dislike to groups they see as different or opposite. It's been going on since the first tribe of people ran into another tribe of people. I guarantee they did not like each other. From sea to shining sea people embrace "isms". Always have. Always will. And don't think because steps have been made in fighting one "ism" that it's not being replaced by another one. Cynical? Maybe. But if being right means being cynical I'll take being right.