An Analogy For Understanding the Pro-Choice View

[aociswundumho]

No. Pro-birthers provide excuses and/or religious beliefs mostly.

Doesn't matter. If it's consistent with the idiotic democratic process then you should have no problem with it.

And if politicians don't know what is best for society, they shouldn't be making laws about what is best for the life of a pregnant person (or transgender person), that should be between the person and their doctor.

Congrats, you finally got something right. Too bad you don't really believe it.

If they are selling drugs that are causing societal problems outside of regulation of those drugs, they should face legal consequences. I don't care about your choices of what goes into your body.

Yes you do, that's why you support political regulation - in order to criminalize people like me and the people I buy from.

State lawmakers are still politicians, government. I'm all for abortion not being banned at all. Leave it up to the woman and her doctor. Having rules related to safe medical practices does not equate to "this should be banned, regulated to not being available at all".

No, you can't have it both ways. If it's under political control, then it's always subject to restrictions or an outright prohibition. Women today who do not have access to abortion providers can blame progressivism, because it was early do-gooder progressives who put doctors and healthcare under state control.

 

[roguenuke]

Doesn't matter. If it's consistent with the idiotic democratic process then you should have no problem with it.



Congrats, you finally got something right. Too bad you don't really believe it.



Yes you do, that's why you support political regulation - in order to criminalize people like me and the people I buy from.



No, you can't have it both ways. If it's under political control, then it's always subject to restrictions or an outright prohibition. Women today who do not have access to abortion providers can blame progressivism, because it was early do-gooder progressives who put doctors and healthcare under state control.

Are you just making shit up?

I don't care what goes into your body. I do care about certain things that should be regulated to not cause societal problems. I don't agree that the government gets it rights when it comes to what should be regulated and/or what regulations are needed. Marijuana for instance, should be legal, regulated like alcohol and/or cigarettes rather than as it is federally now.

I can have it a number of ways, as that is how we actually work to balance society, recognizing that things are not black or white.

 

[Geoist]

Are you just making shit up?

I don't care what goes into your body. I do care about certain things that should be regulated to not cause societal problems. I don't agree that the government gets it rights when it comes to what should be regulated and/or what regulations are needed. Marijuana for instance, should be legal, regulated like alcohol and/or cigarettes rather than as it is federally now.

I can have it a number of ways, as that is how we actually work to balance society, recognizing that things are not black or white.

To wundumho, politics is an all or nothing game. Either you're all in for ancap 'freedoms'or you're all in for total state control of everything. There is no gray area. There is no nuance.

 

[roguenuke]

To wundumho, politics is an all or nothing game. Either you're all in for a ancap 'freedoms'or you're all in for total state control of everything. There is no gray area. There is no nuance.

That seems to be the case with a lot of people on the right, and even many on the extreme left. There is something about certain political viewpoints that leaves people incapable of understanding complexity, recognizing situations as being gray, a number of options.

 

[Geoist]

That seems to be the case with a lot of people on the right, and even many on the extreme left. There is something about certain political viewpoints that leaves people incapable of understanding complexity, recognizing situations as being gray, a number of options.

As someone coming from the far left, I 100% agree. Tankies, alt-left types, and Bernie-or-busters fit this mold.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

Some pro-lifers struggle to understand why anyone could be pro-choice even when they agree a zygote/fetus is a life. Here's an analogy to help understand. It may not be perfect but it's the best one I've got so far to explain my own position (and if any other pro-choice folks have a better one I could adopt, I'd love to read it):

Let's say you get into a car accident. Let's say that car accident was your fault. Now let's say you wake up in the hospital with an IV line hooked up and transferring your blood to the other car crash victim. They say you are the same blood type and you have to stay hooked up because, after all, it's your fault this person ended up here.

Questions:
Do you believe you should have no say in this?
Do you believe you have a right to break off this involuntary blood transfusion?

That's because anti-choice people, and many conservatives for that matter, lack empathy. They can't possibly fathom people think differently from them. They can't fathom someone may be against abortions but pro choice.

And pretty much that lack of empathy is why conservatives tend to be complete selfish people and project themselves onto others, because they think others must think exactly like they do since they lack empathy

 

[mrjurrs]

Some pro-lifers struggle to understand why anyone could be pro-choice even when they agree a zygote/fetus is a life. Here's an analogy to help understand. It may not be perfect but it's the best one I've got so far to explain my own position (and if any other pro-choice folks have a better one I could adopt, I'd love to read it):

Let's say you get into a car accident. Let's say that car accident was your fault. Now let's say you wake up in the hospital with an IV line hooked up and transferring your blood to the other car crash victim. They say you are the same blood type and you have to stay hooked up because, after all, it's your fault this person ended up here.

Questions:
Do you believe you should have no say in this?
Do you believe you have a right to break off this involuntary blood transfusion?

Good try but...imo it falls apart by having the other victim already be alive. The pregnancy has many potential issues with viability that abortion has nothing to do with. Also, you should include the increased risk of the blood transfusion killing you, or you and the other victim.

 

[Geoist]

Good try but...imo it falls apart by having the other victim already be alive.

But that's the beauty of the analogy, imo. Pro-lifers already say the embryo/fetus is alive and therefore should be afforded rights. We are not going to convince a pro-lifer based on that argument. It would have to take the libertarian argument of 'your right to swing your fists ends when my nose begins' to sway them.

The pregnancy has many potential issues with viability that abortion has nothing to do with. Also, you should include the increased risk of the blood transfusion killing you, or you and the other victim.

I'll definitely consider those examples for the analogy. Thanks.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The thing with the right wing is they never say what they mean. You can argue if a foetus is human all you like. What they mean is, we hate sexually active women and want them to suffer

The ultimate goal for the RW movement goes WAY beyond criminalizing abortion.

Sex is only for procreation
ALL sex outside of marriage between a man and woman must be criminalized again
ALL sex not intended FOR procreation needs to also be illegal
Reintroduction of "unnatural sex" laws
ALL contraception methods, even between married couples, must be illegal again
Sex education must be entirely outlawed

And to all who argue these are extreme minorities I would remind you that it only took ONE MAN
to bar a sitting president the chance to nominate a Supreme Court justice, in order to ensure passage of such laws in the wake of overturning Roe.
The final objective is to remove a woman's rights to her own body.

To those who offer that men's sperm means that they have more rights than said now captive women, once that sperm is inside her body,
it no longer belongs TO that man anymore because he gave it TO the woman.
If you voluntarily leave your refrigerator in my garage you no longer have the right to tell me what I can do with it unless we both signed a contract stipulating what specific rights we both agree on.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As someone coming from the far left, I 100% agree. Tankies, alt-left types, and Bernie-or-busters fit this mold.

The above is why I am glad that I discovered Justin Rosario.

 

[ChrisIsLeft]

The ultimate goal for the RW movement goes WAY beyond criminalizing abortion.

Sex is only for procreation
ALL sex outside of marriage between a man and woman must be criminalized again
ALL sex not intended FOR procreation needs to also be illegal
Reintroduction of "unnatural sex" laws
ALL contraception methods, even between married couples, must be illegal again
Sex education must be entirely outlawed

And to all who argue these are extreme minorities I would remind you that it only took ONE MAN
to bar a sitting president the chance to nominate a Supreme Court justice, in order to ensure passage of such laws in the wake of overturning Roe.
The final objective is to remove a woman's rights to her own body.

To those who offer that men's sperm means that they have more rights than said now captive women, once that sperm is inside her body,
it no longer belongs TO that man anymore because he gave it TO the woman.
If you voluntarily leave your refrigerator in my garage you no longer have the right to tell me what I can do with it unless we both signed a contract stipulating what specific rights we both agree on.

Correct. The party of small government wants fine grained governmnet control over your life. Certainly they want to control and own women

 

[mrjurrs]

But that's the beauty of the analogy, imo. Pro-lifers already say the embryo/fetus is alive and therefore should be afforded rights. We are not going to convince a pro-lifer based on that argument. It would have to take the libertarian argument of 'your right to swing your fists ends when my nose begins' to sway them.



I'll definitely consider those examples for the analogy. Thanks.

I get it. Well said.

 

[weaver2]

Some pro-lifers struggle to understand why anyone could be pro-choice even when they agree a zygote/fetus is a life. Here's an analogy to help understand. It may not be perfect but it's the best one I've got so far to explain my own position (and if any other pro-choice folks have a better one I could adopt, I'd love to read it):

Let's say you get into a car accident. Let's say that car accident was your fault. Now let's say you wake up in the hospital with an IV line hooked up and transferring your blood to the other car crash victim. They say you are the same blood type and you have to stay hooked up because, after all, it's your fault this person ended up here.

Questions:
Do you believe you should have no say in this?
Do you believe you have a right to break off this involuntary blood transfusion?

So women are the same as an irresponsible driver who who totaled a car and caused life threatening injuries to the passenger. 75% of the women that get abortions are poor women or low wage workers. They do not have health insurance that covers the most effective but expensive contraceptives and so they are left with cheap but high risk of failure contraceptives. In addition 38,000 abortions are preformed every year for women whose partner has sabotaged her efforts at birth control and she has become pregnant.

Find another analogy, one that shows a scintilla of respect for women and a working knowledge of the statistics on contraceptive use and failure.

 

[Geoist]

So women are the same as an irresponsible driver who who totaled a car and caused life threatening injuries to the passenger. 75% of the women that get abortions are poor women or low wage workers. They do not have health insurance that covers the most effective but expensive contraceptives and so they are left with cheap but high risk of failure contraceptives. In addition 38,000 abortions are preformed every year for women whose partner has sabotaged her efforts at birth control and she has become pregnant.

Find another analogy, one that shows a scintilla of respect for women and a working knowledge of the statistics on contraceptive use and failure.

Jesus dude, triggered much? This analogy isnt for progressives who are already pro-choice. This is for the pro-life crowd. Do you understand what it takes to try and convince the other side on such a contentious issue? One needs to meet them halfway first before bringing them over.

I didn't say the driver was irresponsible. I said the accident in the scenario is 'his fault.' You can be a responsible driver and still have an accident that is your fault just as you can be responsible with sex and still have an 'accident.'

I stated in the op the analogy isnt perfect, especially for every scenario. But I think it can appeal to conservatives at least who are on the fence on the issue.

 

[weaver2]

Jesus dude, triggered much? This analogy isnt for progressives who are already pro-choice. This is for the pro-life crowd. Do you understand what it takes to try and convince the other side on such a contentious issue? One needs to meet them halfway first before bringing them over.

I didn't say the driver was irresponsible. I said the accident in the scenario is 'his fault.' You can be a responsible driver and still have an accident that is your fault just as you can be responsible with sex and still have an 'accident.'

I stated in the op the analogy isnt perfect, especially for every scenario. But I think it can appeal to conservatives at least who are on the fence on the issue.

Triggered? It's my right's that are being denied right now by the SC right now so yes, I'm a bit triggered. You have the luxury of taking a calm objective neutral look at the abortion issue. Your rights aren't being taken away.

 

[Phys251]

Should everyone be forced to donate their body after their death?

No.

AOCI, you just made a pro-choice argument.

 

[Geoist]

Triggered? It's my right's that are being denied right now by the SC right now so yes, I'm a bit triggered. You have the luxury of taking a calm objective neutral look at the abortion issue. Your rights aren't being taken away.

And during this time the anger should be directed to the people taking away your rights, not towards your allies.