• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Amnesty?

Awesome!

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
1,462
Reaction score
260
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Do you think amnesty is a good idea for all of the illegals that are currently in this country? We could tax them and start to know who we have in this country, which may help our efforts to fight illegal immigration, or would that just make 50 million people rush our borders etc.?
 

Hoplite

Technomancer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,779
Reaction score
1,077
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
The way I see it, amnesty is the only realistic choice.

We make amnesty available on the condition that the person applying receive a probationary citizenship where they are required to pay taxes, be seeking employment or currently employed, are conditionally eligible for select social programs on a needed basis, and do not violate the law. Not only do we get productive members of our society, but we get a huge boost in tax revenues as well has not having to spend as much money trying to deport people.

The alternatives are not positive ideas.

We could institute a mass deportation....which would cost probably billions, strip away a workforce most of the Southwest depends on, and end up with the same problem in five years.

We could do what we're doing....which is solving nothing and costing us money.

We could round people up and execute them.....and I shouldnt even have to point out the problems with that .
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,340
Reaction score
16,230
Location
A place where common sense exists
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The way I see it, amnesty is the only realistic choice.

We make amnesty available on the condition that the person applying receive a probationary citizenship where they are required to pay taxes, be seeking employment or currently employed, are conditionally eligible for select social programs on a needed basis, and do not violate the law. Not only do we get productive members of our society, but we get a huge boost in tax revenues as well has not having to spend as much money trying to deport people.

The alternatives are not positive ideas.

We could institute a mass deportation....which would cost probably billions, strip away a workforce most of the Southwest depends on, and end up with the same problem in five years.

We could do what we're doing....which is solving nothing and costing us money.

We could round people up and execute them.....and I shouldnt even have to point out the problems with that .


Why is it that proillegals like to pretend that the only solutions are Amnesty,rounding up people or mass deportation?
 
Last edited:

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,340
Reaction score
16,230
Location
A place where common sense exists
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Do you think amnesty is a good idea for all of the illegals that are currently in this country?
Not only no but hell no. If they are caught then they should be jailed for a minimum of 6 months like the law(for first offense) says they can and then deported. They should be banned from tax payer funded services everything from section 8 housing, public housing, welfare, public education, food handlers permits, drivers, ID and anything else. When the police pull anyone over for some traffic offense they should check the legal status.

We could tax them and start to know who we have in this country, which may help our efforts to fight illegal immigration, or would that just make 50 million people rush our borders etc.?
They tried the same thing before in the mid 1980s, in exchange for 3 million amnesty citizens we got 12-20 million plus more illegals and token enforcement. I also imagine that the same scumbags who hired illegals just replaced the amnesty citizens with more illegals seeing how one of the reasons dishonest businesses hire illegals in the first place is because illegals can not ask for things like fair wages and benefits like a legal citizen can. With states like Arizona and Oklahoma enacting anti-illegal immigration laws, Amnesty should have a snowballs chance in hell.
 

Tucker Case

Matthew 16:3
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
45,603
Reaction score
22,539
Location
Everywhere and nowhere
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Federal amnesty should not happen. It should be left ot the States to decide who is or is not a legal resident of said state.
 

ptif219

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
13,156
Reaction score
1,038
Location
melbourne florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Amnesty rewards law breakers and sends a message it is ok to break the law and cross the border.
 

mike2810

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
23,022
Reaction score
8,076
Location
arizona
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I am not for amnesty. first we must stop the flow of illegals that enter into the US everyday. I do think we need a well thought out migrant worker program or temporary worker program for those who work in the agriculture area.

Any solution of handling the millions who are here illegally needs to address that they committed a crime. It needs to address does the person really want to be an American or are they here just for the dollar and their allegence is with some other country? For those that want to become an American, then some method of restituation/penality to be paid to America needs to be put in place. Some method of assurance that they will assimilate into the US needs to be addressed. Also we would need to address how the illegals who want to become citizens should be handled compared to those who are trying to become citizens legally. For those that just want the dollars/job, they should be deported. A more efficient way to handle temporary or migrant workers can enter the US needs to be developed. Also any immigration reform needs to address the "anchor baby" situation by having the intereptaton of the 14th admendment settled once and for all.

First secure the borders, then lets deal with those who are here illegally and those who want to enter the US.
 

amyk629

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Messages
43
Reaction score
19
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I say no to amnesty. People who are for amnesty are not thinking about what happens after. Amnesty wouldn't solve the problem of illegals coming here, it would only solve the problem with the illegals who are currently in our Country. Amnesty will send messages to those who want to come here illegally to hurry up and do so, and it will also suggest that we have no other better ideas on how to treat this huge problem.
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,340
Reaction score
16,230
Location
A place where common sense exists
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
I say no to amnesty. People who are for amnesty are not thinking about what happens after.
You should not underestimate anyone especially the pro-illegals crowd. They know what happens after amnesty because amnesty or so-called immigration reform/compromise happened before.

it will also suggest that we have no other better ideas on how to treat this huge problem.
This is true. Pro-illegals pretend that the only solutions are mass roundup, mass deportation or Amnesty. States doing what Arizona and Oklahoma did and enforcing their anti-illegal immigration laws will cause most illegals to leave on their own.
 

Westpac Pirate

New member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
12
Reaction score
1
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Ok, so we pass amnesty with a whole laundry list of requirements. It's not like the illegals have a reputation for living their lives abiding by the laws of the land. I would agree we need to adjust the number of imigrants from Mexico. Secure the border first though. Even if we didn't have a problem with Mexico it would be the strategic thing to do considering the war with terrorism. IMHO. Thanks.
 

Hoplite

Technomancer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,779
Reaction score
1,077
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Why is it that proillegals like to pretend that the only solutions are Amnesty,rounding up people or mass deportation?
What alternative solutions do you have?
 

Goshin

The Hammer of Chaos
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,504
Reaction score
50,051
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
No. I'm not into rewarding people for committing unlawful acts, sorry.
 

Mell

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
145
Location
Germany
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Do you think amnesty is a good idea for all of the illegals that are currently in this country? We could tax them and start to know who we have in this country, which may help our efforts to fight illegal immigration, or would that just make 50 million people rush our borders etc.?
If they are already working in the country, they might as well have some ligitimate status, for their own protection. It does not necessarily mean they need to have full immigrant status.
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,340
Reaction score
16,230
Location
A place where common sense exists
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
What alternative solutions do you have?
Most of these just by themselves would reduce illegal immigration be encouraging illegals to flee to somewhere more tolerant of illegal immigration.

1.Require police to verify the legal status of everyone they make legal contact with(traffic offenses, DUI checks and etc.

2. Ban tax payer funded services to illegals. That means no welfare, Section 8 housing, food stamps, driver's licenses, IDs, Food handlers permits, vehicle registrations/car tag renewal, WIC, public schools and any other tax payer funded services.

3. Require proof of citizenship to enroll kids into school.

4.Increase the penalties for hiring illegals such as making those who hire illegals subject to the same assets seizure forfeiture laws that drug dealers and other criminals who profit from illegal activities are subject to. Require prison time and increased fines.

5.Mandatory 6 month jail sentences for first time offenders who violate our immigration laws before deportation. Which illegal immigration is already punishable up to 6 months in jail for first offense.

6.Require financial institutions such as banks,check cashing and money wiring services to verify the legal status of their customers. Since this is the computer age this should be very simple and easy.

7.Repeal the INS act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children. This would basically end anchor babies.

8. Ban day labor sites.

9.add more border guards.

10.militarize the border

11. Jail those who knowingly aid or harbor illegals.

12.Require hospitals to notify authorities of illegals.

13.Since real estate agents,property owners and car dealerships can do credit checks and all sorts of other checks then require those car dealerships,landlords and real estate agents to verify legal status of applicant and ban illegals from purchasing or renting any property and cars.

14.Push for an amendment to ban citizenship to children born here to non-citizens and require that at least the mother be a citizen or a father with a DNA test to grant birthright citizenship. This may not be necessary seeing how the federal government passed the Indian citizenship act of 1924 and the nationality act of 1940 that made anyone born in the US a citizen seeing how section 1 of the 14th amendment does not apply to just anyone born on US soil.

15.Any illegal who caught shall have dna samples,photo and finger prints taken and stored in a data base use to permanently deny that individual entry into this country.

16.Temporarily cut of citizens from countries we have the most illegal immigration problems with entry into this country.Once it has been determined that a huge significant portion of illegals of those countries have been deported(after serving their sentences) back to their countries then we can resume letting in citizens of those countries after passing thorough background checks.
 

rivrrat

Goddess of Bacon
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
13,988
Reaction score
6,593
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Amnesty didn't work before, no reason to think it would work now.

But, amnesty is more than just "make them all citizens". To me, it really depends on the conditions of the amnesty offered.
 

Hoplite

Technomancer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,779
Reaction score
1,077
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
1.Require police to verify the legal status of everyone they make legal contact with(traffic offenses, DUI checks and etc.
Good luck getting the public to accept that :D

2. Ban tax payer funded services to illegals. That means no welfare, Section 8 housing, food stamps, driver's licenses, IDs, Food handlers permits, vehicle registrations/car tag renewal, WIC, public schools and any other tax payer funded services.
Can you prove they're getting these services now?

3. Require proof of citizenship to enroll kids into school.
Yes, because if they're here, they're better off ignorant!

4.Increase the penalties for hiring illegals such as making those who hire illegals subject to the same assets seizure forfeiture laws that drug dealers and other criminals who profit from illegal activities are subject to. Require prison time and increased fines.
You do realize that about 30-40% of the base economy in the Southwest is done by undocumented workers, right?

5.Mandatory 6 month jail sentences for first time offenders who violate our immigration laws before deportation. Which illegal immigration is already punishable up to 6 months in jail for first offense.
Sweet, we can pay for their room and board for six months and accomplish nothing!

6.Require financial institutions such as banks,check cashing and money wiring services to verify the legal status of their customers. Since this is the computer age this should be very simple and easy.
Again, good luck getting people to vote for that.

8. Ban day labor sites.
You do realize that day laborer sites are used by MORE than just illegals...

10.militarize the border
Which is illegal...

11. Jail those who knowingly aid or harbor illegals.
More taxpayer money wasting for accomplishing nothing.

This is getting ridiculous, who is going to PAY for all of these new proposals? You arent getting any tax money and voters sure as hell arent going to vote for half this stuff. You're proposing we turn the US back to the McCarthy era where everyone is paranoid about undocumented immigrants left and right. I'm sorry but that is not a solution. Hell if it ever got that bad here, I'd go out of my way to help undocumented immigrants.
 

Westpac Pirate

New member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
12
Reaction score
1
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If they are already working in the country, they might as well have some ligitimate status, for their own protection. It does not necessarily mean they need to have full immigrant status.
The fact that someone has broken the law and givien an illegal a job in the US does not give said illegal any legimate status and makes the employer a criminal.
 

Mell

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
145
Location
Germany
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
''Amnesty didn't work before, no reason to think it would work now.''

What stopped it working?
 

Mell

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
145
Location
Germany
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Anyway, dont some countries need the labour the illegal workers provide...
 

amyk629

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Messages
43
Reaction score
19
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Good luck getting the public to accept that :D
That's not how it works. The public doesn't accept or vote for laws or provisions to laws for them to go into effect.

Can you prove they're getting these services now?
I live in MA and a bill was just recently passed to elliminate illegals from getting benefits such as welfare, section 8 housing, and so on. So these services were provided and are provided in other states.
 

Mell

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
145
Location
Germany
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
More illegals
People complaining about illegals doesnt necessarily mean it is not working.

Many wealthier countries often have a shortage of farm labour for example, because the citizens no longer want to do it.
 

liblady

pirate lover
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
16,165
Reaction score
5,060
Location
St Thomas, VI
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Do you think amnesty is a good idea for all of the illegals that are currently in this country? We could tax them and start to know who we have in this country, which may help our efforts to fight illegal immigration, or would that just make 50 million people rush our borders etc.?
yes, i do. amnesty with restrictions, of course, but it's the only cost effective way to deal with the poeple who are already here. in conjunction, though, a MUCH tougher stance on illegal immigration as well as more border security.
 

Hoplite

Technomancer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,779
Reaction score
1,077
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
That's not how it works. The public doesn't accept or vote for laws or provisions to laws for them to go into effect.
You dont live in California, do you?

I live in MA and a bill was just recently passed to elliminate illegals from getting benefits such as welfare, section 8 housing, and so on. So these services were provided and are provided in other states.
Do you have evidence beyond a reactionary ban and anecdotal evidence?
 

amyk629

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Messages
43
Reaction score
19
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
The bill requires a person seeking benefits to produce proof that he or she is here legally by providing either a valid Massachusetts driver's license or identification card, U.S. military card, Coast Guard Merchant Mariner card, military dependent’s identification card or Native American tribal document. Anyone who could not produce one of those documents would have the option to execute a notarized affidavit stating that he or she is a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident or is otherwise lawfully present in the United States.

The measure provides many exemptions from the requirement and allows people who cannot produce the necessary identification to still receive emergency medical treatment, immunization and services such as soup kitchens, crisis counseling and intervention and short-term shelter.
___________________

Before this bill illegals could get benefits because no proof of citizenship was required. Did you hear about the car accident in MA between Rep. Mike Moran and an illegal immigrant who was speeding, drunk and a fugitive? Well ICE couldn't touch him because of a bill that was shut down by MA Govenor Deval.
 
Top Bottom