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Ami Horowitz: The Truth Behind the Caravan.

Captain Adverse

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Again, while surfing YouTube I found another Video I think informs a discussion about a misunderstood topic in our Forum...in this case Migrant vs. Immigrant in the Caravans coming north to our borders.


Points raise by the video:


1. Around 90% of the participants are male, not an equal mix of males, females, and children.

2. The move is highly organized and well-funded. A major organizer is World Without Borders (Pueblo Sin Fronteras). The United Nations is also involved.

3. Most of the migrants are not fleeing "oppression," but rather simply seeking jobs and economic advantages.

4. There is a sizeable minority of violent and criminal elements within the group.

My opinion? This trend of mass caravan movement is an organized attempt to circumvent normal immigration requirements, special interest groups working the "refugee" system to their advantage and the disadavantage of other legal immigrants from other parts of the world.

It is no secret that I am personally opposed to allowing migrant invasions, being more in favor of legal merit-based immigration processes. For example:

There has been a lot of debate surrounding how America should handle the issues of Latin American immigrants and Moslem refugees...However, I think we need to recognize that we are actually dealing with two types of "huddled masses," Immigrants and Migrants. They are not the same thing, and I suggest we not lump them together when developing public policy on immigration...

IMO people are allowing emotional arguments to cloud their judgement on the issue. It is true we are a wealthy nation...currently. But there are only 350 million of us as opposed to what; 5 - 7 Billion people worldwide? Could we possibly survive as a nation economically if we just allowed an unlimited, unrestricted flow of alleged "refugees seeking asylum" when they are really just migrants seeking a better economic life?

I argue that if these caravan groups are truly "asylum seekers" then per international law they should apply for it at the first "Free" nation they arrive in. Then they can settle and seek LEGAL immigration to the United States per normal application processes. Otherwise we are simply encouraging the same sorts of problems the E.U. is facing with Merkel's policies of unrestricted migration from the Middle East. That is as historically proven, people seeking a refuge where they can recreate their own culture to the detriment of the culture that welcomed them so openly.
 
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biglawnmower

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Again, while surfing YouTube I found another Video I think informs a discussion about a misunderstood topic in our Forum...in this case Migrant vs. Immigrant in the Caravans coming north to our borders.


Points raise by the video:


1. Around 90% of the participants are male, not an equal mix of males, females, and children.

2. The move is highly organized and well-funded. A major organizer is World Without Borders (Pueblo Sin Fronteras). The United Nations is also involved.

3. Most of the migrants are not fleeing "oppression," but rather simply seeking jobs and economic advantages.

4. There is a sizeable minority of violent and criminal elements within the group.

My opinion? This trend of mass caravan movement is an organized attempt to circumvent normal immigration requirement, working the "refugee" system to their advantage and the disadavantage of other legal immigrants from other parts of the world.

It is no secret that I am personally opposed to allowing migrant invasions, being more in favor of legal merit-based immigration processes. For example:



IMO people are allowing emotional arguments to cloud their judgement on the issue. It is true we are a wealthy nation...currently, but there are only 350 million of us as opposed to what? 5 - 7 Billion people worldwide? Could we possibly survive as a nation economically if we just allowed an unlimited, unrestricted flow of alleged "refugees seeking asylum" when they are really just migrants seeking a better economic life?

thanks for the video. very informative
 

Anarchon

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Basically, the caravan couldn't exist without the logistical support of those outside agencies. The UN is attacking the US. LOL.
 

NeverTrump

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Again, while surfing YouTube I found another Video I think informs a discussion about a misunderstood topic in our Forum...in this case Migrant vs. Immigrant in the Caravans coming north to our borders.


Points raise by the video:


1. Around 90% of the participants are male, not an equal mix of males, females, and children.

2. The move is highly organized and well-funded. A major organizer is World Without Borders (Pueblo Sin Fronteras). The United Nations is also involved.

3. Most of the migrants are not fleeing "oppression," but rather simply seeking jobs and economic advantages.

4. There is a sizeable minority of violent and criminal elements within the group.

My opinion? This trend of mass caravan movement is an organized attempt to circumvent normal immigration requirements, special interest groups working the "refugee" system to their advantage and the disadavantage of other legal immigrants from other parts of the world.

It is no secret that I am personally opposed to allowing migrant invasions, being more in favor of legal merit-based immigration processes. For example:



IMO people are allowing emotional arguments to cloud their judgement on the issue. It is true we are a wealthy nation...currently. But there are only 350 million of us as opposed to what; 5 - 7 Billion people worldwide? Could we possibly survive as a nation economically if we just allowed an unlimited, unrestricted flow of alleged "refugees seeking asylum" when they are really just migrants seeking a better economic life?

I argue that if these caravan groups are truly "asylum seekers" then per international law they should apply for it at the first "Free" nation they arrive in. Then they can settle and seek LEGAL immigration to the United States per normal application processes. Otherwise we are simply encouraging the same sorts of problems the E.U. is facing with Merkel's policies of unrestricted migration from the Middle East. That is, people seeking a refuge where they can recreate their own culture to the detriment of the culture that welcomed them so openly.

Why hasn't Trump tweeted about it since he lost the House Election??? Especially now since the Democrats have more power and this person just exposed the lies of the liberal MSM??? :mrgreen: Trump Fail.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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Obsession with the "caravan" is basically a litmus test for racists and nutjob conspiracy theorists at this point.
 

ttwtt78640

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IMHO, the goal is to force the US to increase foreign economic aid. If the US will not do this 'voluntarily' then it will be forced to do so by having these folks (primarily younger males) sending payments (proceeds of their vastly increased earnings in the US) back to their relatives in their homeland(s). I have seen estimates that up to 1/3 of some nation's populations have 'settled' in the US for the obvious economic benefits. This will only get worse as more goods/services become 'rights' (like EMTALA and a free K-12 education) to any that reside (legally or not) within the US borders.
 

Mycroft

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Why hasn't Trump tweeted about it since he lost the House Election??? Especially now since the Democrats have more power and this person just exposed the lies of the liberal MSM??? :mrgreen: Trump Fail.

Who cares?

What's important...what the MSM doesn't want to talk about...is that they lied about these mobs.

But don't worry. They'll be stopped at the US border. Then they'll be Mexico's problem.
 

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Obsession with the "caravan" is basically a litmus test for racists and nutjob conspiracy theorists at this point.

Caravans such as what we're discussing don't originate organically. There definitely is are political motives to organizing, supplying and promoting these caravans. Among those motives is sowing discord in the US. It's an act of "agitprop" against the US. In that way it is no different than the Russian Twitter "assault" most of the left is so worked up about. The difference is that these caravans involve using real people, many who have been misled with regard to what to realistically expect when they get to the border. The organizers WANT to see detention camps set up at the border because it bolsters their agenda. They WANT to be able to send out pictures of kids separated from their adult escorts. They WANT some militia group to get out of hand and kill a border crosser. That kind of thing works wonders for their cause.

The groups that set this kind of thing up aren't helping the poor in Honduras. They're using the poor in Honduras (and elsewhere) to promote their own political agenda.

They are also using the left in America to promote their agenda.

To the social globalists EVERYONE is a tool to promote their agenda.
 

ttwtt78640

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Why hasn't Trump tweeted about it since he lost the House Election??? Especially now since the Democrats have more power and this person just exposed the lies of the liberal MSM??? :mrgreen: Trump Fail.

When forced (by federal court rulings) keeping of DACA/DAPA fails in the SCOTUS then Trump will have been handed a list of many self-described illegal aliens ripe for deportation. At that point, demorats will (must?) agree to trade (full?) funding for the Great Wall of Trump (and possibly other immigration 'reform') for legislation re-instating DACA/DAPA. Wait and see.
 

<alt>doxygen

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I remember that Horowitz guy from this:

Stockholm Syndrome
In December 2016, Horowitz's 10-minute film Stockholm Syndrome, which explores the "cultural and religious clashes between liberal Swedes and the recent influx of refugee immigrants", was released on FoxNews.com and YouTube.[19][20] Filmed in September 2016 in Sweden[21] it features what Horowitz described as "no-go zones". Horowitz said police told him that "when we're pursuing a suspect, and they cross that threshold, and there's about 30 or 40 of them in Sweden, they will not pursue".[21] The film includes audio footage that he says is of himself being "punched, kicked and choked" by Arabic-speaking men that he was trying to film in Husby, Stockholm.[22][23][24] Horowitz's commentary on the relationship between immigration and crime in Sweden appears to have influenced President Donald Trump's false claims on the same subject.[2]

Many of Horowitz's statements about Sweden in the film and in subsequent interviews were described as false by fact-checkers, news organizations and criminologists as well as Swedish authorities.[2] Two policemen who were featured in Horowitz's film said that Horowitz edited answers and questions to misrepresent them.[25] Two cameramen involved in the project later concurred, after reviewing the raw film, that the footage had been unethically edited to misrepresent the subjects.[26][27] Horowitz denies it, but refused to show the raw material.[28]

I wouldn't take his film at face value. Do some DD before considering it, imo.

Personally, I don't feel threatened by that "caravan". Trump/Fox/Hate Radio have been ignoring it since the election went by <- weird, that (not).
 

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Thanks for putting that out there. Many people still somehow have some faith in cnn.
 

Mycroft

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Democrats get more power and you don't care? Wow.

That isn't what I was referring to, but no...I don't care about the Dems, either.

Thing about their "more power" is...it isn't useful to them and they'll just screw things up with it anyway.
 

Doc91478

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Again, while surfing YouTube I found another Video I think informs a discussion about a misunderstood topic in our Forum...in this case Migrant vs. Immigrant in the Caravans coming north to our borders.


Points raise by the video:


1. Around 90% of the participants are male, not an equal mix of males, females, and children.

2. The move is highly organized and well-funded. A major organizer is World Without Borders (Pueblo Sin Fronteras). The United Nations is also involved.

3. Most of the migrants are not fleeing "oppression," but rather simply seeking jobs and economic advantages.

4. There is a sizeable minority of violent and criminal elements within the group.

My opinion? This trend of mass caravan movement is an organized attempt to circumvent normal immigration requirements, special interest groups working the "refugee" system to their advantage and the disadavantage of other legal immigrants from other parts of the world.

It is no secret that I am personally opposed to allowing migrant invasions, being more in favor of legal merit-based immigration processes. For example:



IMO people are allowing emotional arguments to cloud their judgement on the issue. It is true we are a wealthy nation...currently. But there are only 350 million of us as opposed to what; 5 - 7 Billion people worldwide? Could we possibly survive as a nation economically if we just allowed an unlimited, unrestricted flow of alleged "refugees seeking asylum" when they are really just migrants seeking a better economic life?

I argue that if these caravan groups are truly "asylum seekers" then per international law they should apply for it at the first "Free" nation they arrive in. Then they can settle and seek LEGAL immigration to the United States per normal application processes. Otherwise we are simply encouraging the same sorts of problems the E.U. is facing with Merkel's policies of unrestricted migration from the Middle East. That is as historically proven, people seeking a refuge where they can recreate their own culture to the detriment of the culture that welcomed them so openly.

Undercover Investigator Exposes True Agenda Behind Migrant Caravans
Reporter embedded in caravan exposes leftist group funding and mainstream media cover-up

https://neonnettle.com/news/5641-undercover-investigator-exposes-true-agenda-behind-migrant-caravans

IMO, any person with more than two brain cells knew this is being covertly organized and funded. Many have surmised that Soros is one of the many sponsors.
The far reaching goal of Soros and the globalists is to force feed all Western societies with third-word migrants. The more the better. In this manner all Western societies are diluted beyond recognition and nationalism, which they detest because it blocks their plans, is eliminated. From here it is a much easier task to set up their new world order as everything is diluted and there are effectively no more borders. This is the end game.
Just look at Europe, Sweden, and Denmark. Their societies are hurdling towards collapse because they are being overwhelmed by migrants who do not know or care about civil order. They are transforming their cultures, and this is by design.

 

Bodhisattva

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Obsession with the "caravan" is basically a litmus test for racists and nutjob conspiracy theorists at this point.

Obsession... yes. But most that talk about it are expressing a valid worry about a precedent being set.
 

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Undercover Investigator Exposes True Agenda Behind Migrant Caravans
Reporter embedded in caravan exposes leftist group funding and mainstream media cover-up

https://neonnettle.com/news/5641-undercover-investigator-exposes-true-agenda-behind-migrant-caravans

IMO, any person with more than two brain cells knew this is being covertly organized and funded. Many have surmised that Soros is one of the many sponsors.
The far reaching goal of Soros and the globalists is to force feed all Western societies with third-word migrants. The more the better. In this manner all Western societies are diluted beyond recognition and nationalism, which they detest because it blocks their plans, is eliminated. From here it is a much easier task to set up their new world order as everything is diluted and there are effectively no more borders. This is the end game.
Just look at Europe, Sweden, and Denmark. Their societies are hurdling towards collapse because they are being overwhelmed by migrants who do not know or care about civil order. They are transforming their cultures, and this is by design.


LOL! No, Europe, Sweden and Denmark (who are both in Europe) are not hurtling towards collapse and they're not being overwhelmed.
 

Rogue Valley

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I argue that if these caravan groups are truly "asylum seekers" then per international law they should apply for it at the first "Free" nation they arrive in.

Most are not fleeing a dictatorship. Most are fleeing endemic poverty, chronic unemployment, political indifference, and cartel violence. In those respects Mexico is little better than Guatemala.

As for your esteemed author Ami Horowitz.....

Horowitz came to some prominence after the release of his 10-minute documentary Stockholm Syndrome, on the relationship between immigration and crime in Sweden. Horowitz's commentary on the subject appears to have influenced President Donald Trump's rhetoric on the same subject. Many of Horowitz's statements about Sweden in the film and in subsequent interviews were described as false by fact-checkers, news organizations and criminologists as well as Swedish authorities.[2]

Little different than TAAC.
 

Doc91478

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Mexican Journalist Reveals the Truth About the Caravan​



https://townhall.com/columnists/rac...-reveals-the-truth-about-the-caravan-n2536154
Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernández told Vice President Mike Pence that “the caravan was organized by leftist organizations.” Left-wing organizations are providing assistance. They include the coalition CARA Family Detention Pro Bono Project, which stands for the Catholic Legal Immigration Network, the American Immigration Council, the Refugee and Immigration Center for Education and Legal Services and the American Immigration Lawyers Association. At least three of the groups are funded by George Soros’ Open Society Foundation.



Sounds like the caravan folks fit right in with Antifa and the Progressive Marxist Socialist Democrat Party.
We share nothing in common with the Left. Absolutely Nothing! It’s about time we start accepting it. The Progressive Left is at War with us. Today’s radical Progressive Marxist Socialist Democrat Party is the Socialist Party. They are Marxist Communist Bolsheviks. They are Anti-America, Anti-U.S. Constitution, Anti-Capitalism, Anti-God. Their Liberalism is a Mental Disorder. We are at WAR with these insane people who call themselves Progressives. Progressives are Regressive, wanting the U.S. to return to a time Before the Declaration of Independence, Before the U. S. Constitution, Before the U.S.A.! They are Tyrants who want to control every aspect of our lives! Radical liberals are a cancer on American society and they must be eliminated from the face of the Earth. Democrats (AKA liberals) have no place in this nation because they want this nation to give to YOU instead of learning how you can support IT. Again, we are at WAR with these people and in WAR, the enemy DIES!! Bill Ayers told us that he would have to murder at least 25 million Americans once they gained control.
 

Doc91478

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The invasion of the Central Americans Illegal Alien migrants in such great numbers is just another form of the Cloward-Piven theory. Trump is justified in what he's doing and from what I understand people from Honduras, Guatemala, and San Salvador already have been hurt. As usual you have to follow the money. Who is funding the logistics to enable all these people to travel from these countries to the borders of the U.S.?
Mexico certainly is not helping matters.
 

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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/oc...-migrant-caravan-to-jews-fleeing-nazi-germany


This gal is so stupid, the people who look up to her or thinks she's smart make me shake my head.
This article in Tablet Magazine, The Gaza Delusion-The conflict isn’t between two nations, but between two irreconcilable worldviews, by Liel Leibovitz, highlights an issue common to the Mexican border "caravan", the Middle East dispute and the left-right arguments underlying both. At first blush the controversies have little in common. The U.S. appears to be taking a gut-wrenching and heartless position regarding the Guatemalan-Honduran "caravan" (not my view but a description of other views). The Gazans, organized by Hamas, appear to be either foot-soldiers in the ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict or people who just want to go "home." In both cases "right-wing" governments, i.e. Trump and Netanyahu, resist what is seen, by some, as simple humanity. The "left-wing" view is a sunnier attitude exemplified by the Mamas and Papas in Go Where You Wanna Go, Do What you Wanna Do. The liberal side of the argument believes in a "world without borders."

The Tablet article, The Gaza Delusion-The conflict isn’t between two nations, but between two irreconcilable worldviews, highlights the contrasting views:

If, like me and like most Israelis, you believe that humanity could hardly do better than to arrange itself by nation state, you shouldn’t have much difficulty understanding why a border is among the key emblems of national sovereignty, and why violating it brazenly and violently is going to be met with the harshest response imaginable. But what if you believe otherwise? What if you believe, like so many on the progressive left these days, that nation states aren’t efficient guardians of individual liberties and serviceable embodiments of our collective values but, rather, a remnant from bygone, benighted times? What if you believe that we are all global citizens now, and that our evolution will not reach its apogee until we shed the silly notion that Israelis and Palestinians—or, for that matter, Americans and Portuguese and Congolese and Laotians—are inherently different and focus instead on transcending our differences en route to an Isaiah-like end times of harmony and peace?

The latter isn’t so much of a pipe dream these days. Much power, after all, rests with multinational corporations that have made their mint by eradicating our traditional relationships with the two most formidable barriers facing mankind, space and time. Facebook, which lets you connect with anyone, anywhere, at any time, now has a market value of around $500 billion, more or less the gross domestic product of the entire nation of Sweden. If you grew up connecting primarily on digital platforms, if you know many people who see their costly education as a passport that allows them to pick up and work in different cities across the globe; if you have little use for the peculiarities of tradition and the constraints of location, why would a nation state strike you as anything but an anachronism?....Isn’t technology and the future all about breaking down barriers? So why are these meanies in uniform over there opening fire?

We must show compassion, and help where we can. However, I agree with the logic of the article, that we, in the West, cannot just let the "world" in.
 

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I remember that Horowitz guy from this:



I wouldn't take his film at face value. Do some DD before considering it, imo.

Personally, I don't feel threatened by that "caravan". Trump/Fox/Hate Radio have been ignoring it since the election went by <- weird, that (not).

I don't doubt that being that you are in Florida and won't have to deal them personally.
 

<alt>doxygen

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I don't doubt that being that you are in Florida and won't have to deal them personally.

I have stated that. There are folks on this board that live hear the borders. They may have different priorities, and I understand that.

Trump now has about 1 soldier at the border for each of those migrants, if that makes you feel better.
 

What if...?

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Again, while surfing YouTube I found another Video I think informs a discussion about a misunderstood topic in our Forum...in this case Migrant vs. Immigrant in the Caravans coming north to our borders.


Points raise by the video:


1. Around 90% of the participants are male, not an equal mix of males, females, and children.

2. The move is highly organized and well-funded. A major organizer is World Without Borders (Pueblo Sin Fronteras). The United Nations is also involved.

3. Most of the migrants are not fleeing "oppression," but rather simply seeking jobs and economic advantages.

4. There is a sizeable minority of violent and criminal elements within the group.

My opinion? This trend of mass caravan movement is an organized attempt to circumvent normal immigration requirements, special interest groups working the "refugee" system to their advantage and the disadavantage of other legal immigrants from other parts of the world.

It is no secret that I am personally opposed to allowing migrant invasions, being more in favor of legal merit-based immigration processes. For example:



IMO people are allowing emotional arguments to cloud their judgement on the issue. It is true we are a wealthy nation...currently. But there are only 350 million of us as opposed to what; 5 - 7 Billion people worldwide? Could we possibly survive as a nation economically if we just allowed an unlimited, unrestricted flow of alleged "refugees seeking asylum" when they are really just migrants seeking a better economic life?

I argue that if these caravan groups are truly "asylum seekers" then per international law they should apply for it at the first "Free" nation they arrive in. Then they can settle and seek LEGAL immigration to the United States per normal application processes. Otherwise we are simply encouraging the same sorts of problems the E.U. is facing with Merkel's policies of unrestricted migration from the Middle East. That is as historically proven, people seeking a refuge where they can recreate their own culture to the detriment of the culture that welcomed them so openly.

How about we just do the supply side thing and hammer employers until the won't hire illegals anymore out of fear of being bankrupted by fines.

Until then, y'all are just scapegoating powerless people while defending the real culprits: Americans breaking American laws creating an illegal immigrant problem out of greed.
 

What if...?

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When forced (by federal court rulings) keeping of DACA/DAPA fails in the SCOTUS then Trump will have been handed a list of many self-described illegal aliens ripe for deportation. At that point, demorats will (must?) agree to trade (full?) funding for the Great Wall of Trump (and possibly other immigration 'reform') for legislation re-instating DACA/DAPA. Wait and see.

How long exactly is this wall going to take to build?

How many crimes will he commuted by illegals before it is finished as opposed to how many if we started seriously pounding employers with fines right now, today?

And fines would mean it would cost taxpayers little or nothing.

How many billions would Trump's Folly cost?
 

ttwtt78640

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How long exactly is this wall going to take to build?

How many crimes will he commuted by illegals before it is finished as opposed to how many if we started seriously pounding employers with fines right now, today?

And fines would mean it would cost taxpayers little or nothing.

How many billions would Trump's Folly cost?

I agree that we need both better border security (including a wall/fence where appropriate) and much better interior enforcement. Obviously, criminals (mainly gang/cartel members) don't much care about their employment status and can now easily return if deported.

I have suggested that we mandate an annual eVerify certification for each and every US worker (W-2 employee or 1099 subcontractor) That allows a fairly simple change to the federal income tax (FIT) code, making it illegal to deduct any direct labor costs of non-certified employees/subcontractors, to effectively prevent the profitable use of illegal labor.

Fines require convicting the employer of a federal crime which has a significant costs of enforcement (actual on-site inspection of each employer's workforce). Changing the FIT code to deny the deduction of the costs for using any non-certified labor is simple and we already have fairly decent FIT auditing enforcement.
 
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