America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office

[Conservative]

You don't speak for anyone other than yourself.

I am one of the 55% of the American people who approve of the job Trump is doing on the economy. The results support my position not yours

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

 

[Conservative]

The government borrows available funds from the private sector to make good on its obligations. This is simply a matter of fact.

Yes it does and that creates the interest expense which is the 4th larges budget item now and why the deficit is rising. 7 interest rate hikes since Trump took office

 

[Conservative]

It has been weeks now and YOU still can't show us where the US Gov. has Discretionary revenue of 2 T
You say we have taxes just for Discretionary spending
yet the TOTAL revenue ( you do know what TOTAL means don't you? every cent the US gov. takes in in a year ) was only 3.4 T and you have mandatory spending that has to be taken out of that first and that leaves you about 700 B NOT 2 Trillion
have a nice night

You are totally incapable apparently of reading, the data and link have been posted here many times. learn how to do research instead of just buying the left wing opinions. Treasury through BEA.gov will give you the revenue from taxes created to fund discretionary budget items. As I continue to point out you have no idea what taxes you pay or their purpose. Your lack of understanding is staggering

Oh by the way I do know what TOTAL means but total comes from all Taxes paid NOT just the taxes created to fund discretionary items. Do you know what the unified budget is? Have a nice day

 

[Conservative]

Conservatives make that assertion all the time. But a recover from a financial collapse is different from a business cycle recovery. The better comparison is with other nations who were similarly affected by the crisis. In that vein, the US did really well, thanks in no small part to the Democratic stimulus, even if it was not as large as it should have been. No thanks to the Republicans.

View attachment 67272805

Do you have any idea what the components of GDP are?? pretty chart, how about putting numbers on it then the numbers for 2017-2019? There is a real loyalty to Obama and liberalism why?

 

[Conservative]

Trump ruined his own economy.

55% of the American people tell a different story

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

 

[Conservative]

I am not the one that made the statement and can't back it up
You said there is 2 T in discretionary funds from taxes just for those funds
FACT is you can't get it through your thick head that the US gov. has TOTAL revenues of 3.4 T that is it and after you deduct the spending for the mandatory programs ( 2.7 T ) you only have what is left to spend on discretionary programs
You made the statement so it should be simple for you to show us where this dedicated tax is for discretionary spending
it isn't there, there is only the money left over from the total the Gov. takes in after they pay for the mandatory programs
again 3.4 T - 2.7 T = 700 billion for discretionary spending
have a nice night

I have backed it up, you ignored it. You have no understanding of the budget line items and what makes up discretionary and mandatory spending. This is getting tiring posting links only to be ignored. You are the one with the problem, total revenue isn't enough to cover TOTAL expenses which are Mandatory PLUS Discretionary spending items. Please learn what makes up both those categories and the taxes created to fund them? You are a typical liberal, poorly informed and poorly educated on the taxes you pay and their purpose. Have a nice day

 

[Conservative]

I love how you romanticize over a poll that doesn't even include a Democrat candidate

I love how you romanticize over polls on Trump's popularity without a Democratic Candidate selected

 

[jonny5]

America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office


New York (CNN Business)The US economy in 2019 grew at its slowest pace in three years, according to preliminary data from the Commerce Department.

The economy expanded by 2.3% last year, its lowest level since 2016, when growth stood at 1.6%.
The economy under President Donald Trump has been consistently strong but not electric. In its best year, 2018, the economy expanded at a 2.9% clip. In 2017, it grew by 2.4%.
The dropoff in 2019 was because personal consumption and exports fell, according to the Commerce Department.

---

Critics of Obama said his economy was mediocre because he never had GDP growth at 3% or higher. Neither has Trump, with low unemployment and a trillion dollar deficit that's basically fiscal stimulus.
Trump promised on the campaign trail that he'd bring in 4, 5, and maybe 6% growth. Didn't happen. His tax-cuts were supposed to be the economic miracle to boost growth. It didn't happen. His tariffs were supposed to help exports. Exports fell.

Critics of Obama were right. And critics of Trump are right too. He's not doing enough to reign in spending and reform the govts financial interference. Congress is to blame as well. The GOP congress could have done a lot to get the govt out of our lives in 2016 and they didnt. Democrats have done even less since they took the House back.

All of them need to reduce spending, end the welfare state, reduce the size of govt, pay off the debt, and cut taxes. 2.5% is better than under Obama, but not good enough.

Since inevitably this is all about winning elections and not actually improving anything, Id still rather have 4 more years of 2.5% growth than whatever disaster or stagnation the democrats will bring us.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I have backed it up, you ignored it. You have no understanding of the budget line items and what makes up discretionary and mandatory spending. This is getting tiring posting links only to be ignored. You are the one with the problem, total revenue isn't enough to cover TOTAL expenses which are Mandatory PLUS Discretionary spending items. Please learn what makes up both those categories and the taxes created to fund them? You are a typical liberal, poorly informed and poorly educated on the taxes you pay and their purpose. Have a nice day

You keep pretending that there are some sort of mandatory and discretionary federal revenue (stream?) categories intended to match the mandatory (higher priority?) and discretionary (lower priority?) spending categories. That is simply not so, in fact, 100% of annual non-defense, federal discretionary spending is in excess of (total) annual federal revenue - thus becomes the annual "budget" deficit. Our annual federal "budget" now calls for (total) spending of about $1T more than (total) federal revenue will cover.

 

[MTAtech]

Critics of Obama were right. And critics of Trump are right too. He's not doing enough to reign in spending and reform the govts financial interference. Congress is to blame as well. The GOP congress could have done a lot to get the govt out of our lives in 2016 and they didnt. Democrats have done even less since they took the House back.

All of them need to reduce spending, end the welfare state, reduce the size of govt, pay off the debt, and cut taxes. 2.5% is better than under Obama, but not good enough.

Since inevitably this is all about winning elections and not actually improving anything, Id still rather have 4 more years of 2.5% growth than whatever disaster or stagnation the democrats will bring us.

Ok, what spending would you cut that would trim a trillion dollars?

Don't fool yourself into thinking Trump's growth rate is better than Obama's. It isn't -- and Obama did it without slashing taxes on the rich and corporations.

 

[Conservative]

You keep pretending that there are some sort of mandatory and discretionary federal revenue (stream?) categories intended to match the mandatory (higher priority?) and discretionary (lower priority?) spending categories. That is simply not so, in fact, 100% of annual non-defense, federal discretionary spending is in excess of (total) annual federal revenue - thus becomes the annual "budget" deficit. Our annual federal "budget" now calls for (total) spending of about $1T more than (total) federal revenue will cover.

Look, I have zero respect for a few posters here but do have respect for you. I am posting the link but the problem here remains the unified budget that was created by LBJ and thus the co-mingling of funds collected by the Federal gov't. The fact remains taxes were created to fund various line items in the budget which I have pointed out over and over again but LBJ decided along with a Democratic Congress that there was more money coming in than going out in the 60's and the Vietnam War needed to be funded so they created the unified budget which put the mandatory spending items on budget thus putting the revenue from the FICA taxes that fund those items into the General fund to be spent as the Congress and President wanted. That became the problem we are facing today as the money was "borrowed" but never repaid.

Now for the reality

US Federal Budget Breakdown

On March 11, 2019, President Donald Trump released his budget request for fiscal year 2020. Under his proposal, the federal budget would be a record $4.746 trillion. The U.S. government estimates it will receive $3.645 trillion in revenue. That creates a $1.101 trillion deficit for October 1, 2019, through September 30, 2020.

Government spending is broken down into three categories: Mandatory, listed at $2.841 trillion; Discretionary spending, forecasted to be $1.426 trillion; and interest on the national debt, $479 billion. Each category of spending has different subcategories that require funding.

Now for the 2019 revenue

Apps Test | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

Table 3.2. Federal Government Current Receipts and Expenditures

Table 3.2. Federal Government Current Receipts and Expenditures
[Billions of dollars] Seasonally adjusted at annual rates
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: January 30, 2020 - Next Release Date February 27, 2020

Line 2017 2018 2019
Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4
1 Current receipts 3532.2 3496.2 3535.8 3541.5 3446.9 3469.3 3545.4 3529 3576.7 3606.3 3622 ---
2 Current tax receipts 1987.6 2003.7 2042.9 2042.4 1921.5 1943.5 1971.4 1987.9 2018.6 2027.6 2036.3 ---

The taxes that created that 2.036 trillion in revenue were taxes created to fund discretionary budget items(FIT, CIT, Excise, ETC) like the military, VA, Congress, HHS, Education, Commerce, Courts, Transportation, etc

Taxes that paid for the Mandatory spending which is entitlement programs of SS and Medicare makes up the rest of the revenue.

Make sense to you now or do you have further questions?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Look, I have zero respect for a few posters here but do have respect for you. I am posting the link but the problem here remains the unified budget that was created by LBJ and thus the co-mingling of funds collected by the Federal gov't. The fact remains taxes were created to fund various line items in the budget which I have pointed out over and over again but LBJ decided along with a Democratic Congress that there was more money coming in than going out in the 60's and the Vietnam War needed to be funded so they created the unified budget which put the mandatory spending items on budget thus putting the revenue from the FICA taxes that fund those items into the General fund to be spent as the Congress and President wanted. That became the problem we are facing today as the money was "borrowed" but never repaid.

Now for the reality

US Federal Budget Breakdown



Now for the 2019 revenue

Apps Test | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

Table 3.2. Federal Government Current Receipts and Expenditures



The taxes that created that 2.036 trillion in revenue were taxes created to fund discretionary budget items(FIT, CIT, Excise, ETC) like the military, VA, Congress, HHS, Education, Commerce, Courts, Transportation, etc

Taxes that paid for the Mandatory spending which is entitlement programs of SS and Medicare makes up the rest of the revenue.

Make sense to you now or do you have further questions?

Nope, because you failed to show any revenue (taxes) "dedicated" for paying interest on the national debt or funding Medicaid (and other "mandatory" entitlements). Trying to pretend that "discretionary" revenue more than covers discretionary spending is pure fantasy on your part and you know it.

 

[Conservative]

Nope, because you failed to show any revenue (taxes) "dedicated" for paying interest on the national debt or funding Medicaid (and other "mandatory" entitlements). Trying to pretend that "discretionary" revenue more than covers discretionary spending is pure fantasy on your part and you know it.

Look, I gave you the link and showed you the line item for the discretionary tax revenue collected. There is no tax specifically for the interest expense but why don't you figure out what the 1.47 trillion discretionary expense PLUS interest expense comes to versus the Revenue of 2.036 trillion?? I don't PRETEND that discretionary revenue is more than discretionary spending plus the debt service isn't a fantasy, IT IS FACT!!!!

 

[ttwtt78640]

Look, I gave you the link and showed you the line item for the discretionary tax revenue collected. There is no tax specifically for the interest expense but why don't you figure out what the 1.47 trillion discretionary expense PLUS interest expense comes to versus the Revenue of 2.036 trillion?? I don't PRETEND that discretionary revenue is more than discretionary spending plus the debt service isn't a fantasy, IT IS FACT!!!!

You pretend that Medicaid and interest on the national debt were to be funded by the FICA payroll tax (or by borrowing) with nothing but your own assertion that it is so.

 

[Kushinator]

I am one of the 55% of the American people who approve of the job Trump is doing on the economy. The results support my position not yours

You speak for nobody but yourself.

 

[Conservative]

You pretend that Medicaid and interest on the national debt were to be funded by the FICA payroll tax (or by borrowing) with nothing but your own assertion that it is so.

No, please post where I made that claim?? Now stop acting like a liberal, 2.03 trillion in revenue from taxes created to fund discretionary line items in the budget are more than enough to fund those discretionary items along with interest expense. Medicaid is part of the discretionary budget not mandatory and is funded by both federal AND state dollars

How Much Medicaid and Medicare Cost Americans

 

[Conservative]

You speak for nobody but yourself.

Which is no different than you, so what is your point. Mine is that I am in the majority based upon the poll numbers on the economy. You remain as always in the minority on every major issue in this country.

 

[ttwtt78640]

No, please post where I made that claim?? Now stop acting like a liberal, 2.03 trillion in revenue from taxes created to fund discretionary line items in the budget are more than enough to fund those discretionary items along with interest expense. Medicaid is part of the discretionary budget not mandatory and is funded by both federal AND state dollars

How Much Medicaid and Medicare Cost Americans

Nonsense.

The discretionary budget does not include Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. These are part of the mandatory budget. These programs were authorized by previous Acts of Congress. The mandatory budget estimates how much it will cost to provide these benefits.

Current US Discretionary Federal Budget and Spending

Mandatory—or direct—spending includes spending for entitlement programs and certain other payments to people, businesses, and state and local governments. Mandatory spending is generally governed by statutory criteria; it is not normally set by annual appropriation acts. Outlays for the nation’s three largest entitlement programs (Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid) and for many smaller programs (unemployment compensation, retirement programs for federal employees, student loans, and deposit insurance, for example) are mandatory spending.

What is the difference between mandatory and discretionary spending? | Congressional Budget Office

 

[Conservative]

Nonsense.



Current US Discretionary Federal Budget and Spending

What is nonsense are people like you ignoring the problem and claiming that FIT cuts caused the deficit to swell. Use some common sense here, states and federal dollars go into Medicaid so stop making a fool of yourself. Take the revenue from taxes that fund discretionary budget items, subtract from that discretionary budget items, interest expense and Medicaid and give us the results.

 

[Kushinator]

55% of the American people tell a different story

Which is no different than you, so what is your point. Mine is that I am in the majority based upon the poll numbers on the economy. You remain as always in the minority on every major issue in this country.

All we can expect from you is lies, hypocrisy, and fallacies. In fact, you're not knowledgeable enough in this realm to identify such a poor debate strategy... known as argumentum ad populum, or appeal to the majority. It is a fallacy and it is about the best we can expect from you:

Argumentum ad populum is a type of informal fallacy, specifically a fallacy of relevance, and is similar to an argument from authority (argumentum ad verecundiam). It uses an appeal to the beliefs, tastes, or values of a group of people, stating that because a certain opinion or attitude is held by a majority, it is therefore correct.

Appeals to popularity are common in commercial advertising that portrays products as desirable because they are used by many people or associated with popular sentiments instead of communicating the merits of the products themselves.

The inverse argument, that something that is unpopular must be flawed, is also a form of this fallacy.

The fallacy is similar in structure to certain other fallacies that involve a confusion between the justification of a belief and its widespread acceptance by a given group of people. When an argument uses the appeal to the beliefs of a group of experts, it takes on the form of an appeal to authority; if the appeal is to the beliefs of a group of respected elders or the members of one's community over a long time, then it takes on the form of an appeal to tradition. It is also the basis of a number of social phenomena, including communal reinforcement and the bandwagon effect. The Chinese proverb "three men make a tiger" concerns the same idea.

One who commits this fallacy may assume that individuals commonly analyze and edit their beliefs and behaviors based on majority opinion. This is often not the case.

The facts remain:

1.) nominal gdp growth fell from $1.060 trillion in 2018 to $836 billion in 2019 with tax and regulation cuts firmly in place.

2.) interest expense grew by $50 billion for FY 2019.

3.) there are no such thing as discretionary taxes.

4.) real GDP growth is anchored between ≈ 1.5% and 2.5%.

All you've ever brought to the debate table is hypocrisy, dishonesty, and ignorance. Which is why you lose.

 

[ttwtt78640]

What is nonsense are people like you ignoring the problem and claiming that FIT cuts caused the deficit to swell. Use some common sense here, states and federal dollars go into Medicaid so stop making a fool of yourself. Take the revenue from taxes that fund discretionary budget items, subtract from that discretionary budget items, interest expense and Medicaid and give us the results.

I have made no such claim. I have offered ample proof that current federal revenue is insufficient to cover current federal spending and no amount of spin on your part is going to alter that fact. The basic (root cause of the?) problem is that federal revenue is at about 17% of GDP while federal spending is at about 20% of GDP - no matter how big GDP gets it will not fix that basic imbalance.

 

[Conservative]

Nonsense.



Current US Discretionary Federal Budget and Spending



What is the difference between mandatory and discretionary spending? | Congressional Budget Office

Here is the real nonsense, Cost for Medicaid in 2019 was estimated at 406 billion of which the federal gov't funds 61-62% with the states funding the rest. That would make the Federal cost 251 billion, add that to the Discretionary budget spending PLUS debt service and what do you come up with vs. the Discretionary budget revenue generated? You explain to us all the difference adds up to a trillion dollar deficit? Why is this so hard for you and others to understand? The problem remains entitlement spending and the abuse of the FICA dollars collected for decades as it was borrowed. We are paying that price now

Medicaid and State Budgets: Checking the Facts (Yet Again) – Center For Children and Families

 

[Kushinator]

What is nonsense are people like you ignoring the problem and claiming that FIT cuts caused the deficit to swell.

Tax revenue is about $300 billion less than it would have been. The economy didn't grow in the fashion that you and other's predicted... had the economy grown by 4%, the deficit would have likely been reduced, but it didn't materialize. The President and his staff have failed you (they didn't fail me because i've called it right every step of the way).

 

[Conservative]

I have made no such claim. I have offered ample proof that current federal revenue is insufficient to cover current federal spending and no amount of spin on your part is going to alter that fact. The basic (root cause of the?) problem is that federal revenue is at about 17% of GDP while federal spending is at about 20% of GDP - no matter how big GDP gets it will not fix that basic imbalance.

Yes but like most liberals you are looking at the unified budget and not addressing the real problem which isn't discretionary spending, it is the abuse of our dollars by the Congress for decades. Trump is taking a hit over the deficit growing but has little control over the items that are really causing that deficit.

Look, that was an issue for Obama and all previous presidents as well, but Obama's problem was purely revenue related as his shovel ready jobs stimulus didn't create the shovel ready jobs and his interest expense was half of what Trump's is

Why is it you and others have a problem with people keeping more of what they earn? How has that reduced the revenue as the facts don't show that. Further the facts are state and local coffers are setting records that wouldn't have happened without the tax cuts so rather than look purely at Federal revenue why aren't you and others looking at the benefits created by the tax cuts and the real problem with the deficit, entitlement/mandatory spending which is what Congress has to tackle but won't because that buys votes

 

[Conservative]

Tax revenue is about $300 billion less than it would have been. The economy didn't grow in the fashion that you and other's predicted... had the economy grown by 4%, the deficit would have likely been reduced, but it didn't materialize. The President and his staff have failed you (they didn't fail me because i've called it right every step of the way).

That is your opinion as once again you believe we would have the same economic activity without the tax cuts. You cannot prove that. You cannot prove that over 6.6 million jobs(new taxpayers) would have been created without that pro growth economic policies. You cannot prove that state and local coffers would be setting records now without the tax cuts or that charities wouldn't be receiving record revenue or the companies wouldn't be paying record dividends. Your entire focus is on Federal gov't revenue and not federal gov't expenses that should be shifted back to the states particularly all social spending excluding SS and Medicare which are funded by FICA