America's Corporate Taxes are SO HIGH that... [W:49]

[fmw]

Most deductions are reasonable deductions that deal with the costs of doing business and all these that you mentioned fit that category. When I think of loopholes, I think of gaps where some sneaky corporate accountants can leverage poorly worded or thought out tax law to make deductions that were never intended by the law. Like a law that would relieve you of a property tax burden if you had agricultural income.... and you stick a couple beehives on your estate and sell a couple pounds of honey to some friends in order to save yourself 50,000.00 in property taxes.

The costs of doing business to arrive at a net profit on the P&L are defined by law. So are the loopholes. Since consumers eventually pay all corporate taxes, they should contact their congressman if they wish to increase their taxes. Their congressman would probably interested in any tax increase. They always are.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The costs of doing business to arrive at a net profit on the P&L are defined by law. So are the loopholes. Since consumers eventually pay all corporate taxes, they should contact their congressman if they wish to increase their taxes. Their congressman would probably interested in any tax increase. They always are.

But that's why consumers buy outsourced products. So they don't have to pay the US taxes on manufacturing!

 

[Papa bull]

The costs of doing business to arrive at a net profit on the P&L are defined by law. So are the loopholes. Since consumers eventually pay all corporate taxes, they should contact their congressman if they wish to increase their taxes. Their congressman would probably interested in any tax increase. They always are.

It's funny to hear people talk about raising corporate taxes as though that's really "sticking it to the man", all the while not realizing that the man that that ultimately ends up bending over and taking it up the arse is the man in the mirror and every other consumer and worker in the country. Unless someone is one of those that pay no taxes and get government checks, raising corporate taxes amounts to raising their own taxes. It reduces the gains in their retirement accounts, it costs them more at the checkout line and it may even cost them their jobs.

 

[Lord of Planar]

It's funny to hear people talk about raising corporate taxes as though that's really "sticking it to the man", all the while not realizing that the man that that ultimately ends up bending over and taking it up the arse is the man in the mirror and every other consumer and worker in the country. Unless someone is one of those that pay no taxes and get government checks, raising corporate taxes amounts to raising their own taxes. It reduces the gains in their retirement accounts, it costs them more at the checkout line and it may even cost them their jobs.

Worse yet, it hurts our global competition. We would have more products affordable if we didn't tax their production. Here we are, taxing production, adding cost to products we export, then most countries tax on consumption. Then we wonder why we can't sell very many products. Now other counties tend not to tax exports, and we tend not to tax consumption, making foreign products cheaper.

Yes people... I know there is more than that. However, if we taxed like the rest of the world did, we would be more competitive in the world markets than we are now.

 

[Papa bull]

Worse yet, it hurts our global competition.

Like I said, it could cost people their jobs and this is one of the reasons for many corporations why it's outsource or die.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Like I said, it could cost people their jobs and this is one of the reasons for many corporations why it's outsource or die.

Its so obvious, why don't people see it?

 

[Carjosse]

I disagree. Most corporations can show a good profit because they can deduct so many things and end up paying low or no taxes. It hurts the ones more that cannot deduct so may things. Now I am of the mind that corporate taxes is double taxation. Either tax the stock holders, or the corporation. Not both. That said, as long as we have corporate taxes, wouldn't it be better to lower the tax rate, and remove all deductions beyond the cost of doing business?

Again that is a major tax loophole issue they need to pay taxes or have a minimum amount of tax that must be paid even with deductions but there shouldn't that many deductions. You need close loopholes and prevent off shoring.

 

[washunut]

Most deductions are reasonable deductions that deal with the costs of doing business and all these that you mentioned fit that category. When I think of loopholes, I think of gaps where some sneaky corporate accountants can leverage poorly worded or thought out tax law to make deductions that were never intended by the law. Like a law that would relieve you of a property tax burden if you had agricultural income.... and you stick a couple beehives on your estate and sell a couple pounds of honey to some friends in order to save yourself 50,000.00 in property taxes.

Fair enough. There are a couple of ways to fix the problem you pose. First the tax court can rule that adding a few beehives does not constitute a farm, or the congress can explicitly close the loophole ( less likely).

 

[Papa bull]

Fair enough. There are a couple of ways to fix the problem you pose. First the tax court can rule that adding a few beehives does not constitute a farm, or the congress can explicitly close the loophole ( less likely).

Actually, the example was taken from memory from a state issue where they just wrote a stupid law and the word got around on how to exploit it. That happens in the business community and at the federal level, too. The problem with the loopholes that remain open usually aren't that no one bothers to close them - it's more an issue of whether or not closing the "loophole" would do more harm than good because it could be a very important bit of tax code even if it's one that is difficult to write in such a way as to assure abuse cannot take place. That's usually why we have these "loopholes" in place over long periods of time. One of the so-called "loopholes" is the deferment of taxes on unrepatriated profits from foreign operations. It's often called a "loophole" but it's actually sensible tax code and even though it may arguably get abused, it's too important and rational a piece of tax code to eliminate it.

One thing people seem to overlook all too often is that politicians WANT to get tax money. They want to find tax money in every nook and cranny possible. When they'are arguing against taxes, it's over something they perceive to be a real problem, not because they don't want the revenue to spend on the pork they need to brag to their constituents about.

 

[washunut]

Actually, the example was taken from memory from a state issue where they just wrote a stupid law and the word got around on how to exploit it. That happens in the business community and at the federal level, too. The problem with the loopholes that remain open usually aren't that no one bothers to close them - it's more an issue of whether or not closing the "loophole" would do more harm than good because it could be a very important bit of tax code even if it's one that is difficult to write in such a way as to assure abuse cannot take place. That's usually why we have these "loopholes" in place over long periods of time. One of the so-called "loopholes" is the deferment of taxes on unrepatriated profits from foreign operations. It's often called a "loophole" but it's actually sensible tax code and even though it may arguably get abused, it's too important and rational a piece of tax code to eliminate it.

One thing people seem to overlook all too often is that politicians WANT to get tax money. They want to find tax money in every nook and cranny possible. When they'are arguing against taxes, it's over something they perceive to be a real problem, not because they don't want the revenue to spend on the pork they need to brag to their constituents about.

On the last point I do not even consider that a loophole. Hard to tax a corporation that is outside the U.S. just because the parent is U.S. based.

 

[Papa bull]

On the last point I do not even consider that a loophole. Hard to tax a corporation that is outside the U.S. just because the parent is U.S. based.

I don't, either, but a lot of people do. If an American corporation makes money from their Australian operations, Australia is going to get their pound of flesh from them. Unless those profits get "repatriated", they're not really American profits even though the parent corporation has a headquarters here.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

I don't, either, but a lot of people do. If an American corporation makes money from their Australian operations, Australia is going to get their pound of flesh from them. Unless those profits get "repatriated", they're not really American profits even though the parent corporation has a headquarters here.

It's the main reason Apple decided to issue bonds to pay dividends rather than bring the funds back to the US from overseas facing a 35% tax...

 

[SheWolf]

They should taxes.

so none of the people who earned money working for facebook paid taxes? their salaries did not contribute to other businesses etc? tell me are we better off having facebook around or not? the problem with the left is its parasitic attitude that businesses only exist to fund often wasteful government programs used to buy the left votes.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Fair enough. There are a couple of ways to fix the problem you pose. First the tax court can rule that adding a few beehives does not constitute a farm, or the congress can explicitly close the loophole ( less likely).

Why not just not have such deductions?

Even if we do, I have always advocated having a scope and purpose attached to all laws, that renders the black and white of new laws null and void if they fall outside the scope and function. Many deductions tax attorneys find were never intended for the people who get them.

 

[Zalatix]

Worse yet, it hurts our global competition. We would have more products affordable if we didn't tax their production. Here we are, taxing production, adding cost to products we export, then most countries tax on consumption. Then we wonder why we can't sell very many products. Now other counties tend not to tax exports, and we tend not to tax consumption, making foreign products cheaper.

Yes people... I know there is more than that. However, if we taxed like the rest of the world did, we would be more competitive in the world markets than we are now.

No we wouldn't. Our wage levels would smack us right back down.

What we really need to compete in the mercantilist sham that you call global competition is Chinese level wages... or a severely devalued dollar.

 

[Zalatix]

It's funny to hear people talk about raising corporate taxes as though that's really "sticking it to the man", all the while not realizing that the man that that ultimately ends up bending over and taking it up the arse is the man in the mirror and every other consumer and worker in the country. Unless someone is one of those that pay no taxes and get government checks, raising corporate taxes amounts to raising their own taxes. It reduces the gains in their retirement accounts, it costs them more at the checkout line and it may even cost them their jobs.

Facebook paid zero taxes.

So to charge them 1% taxes they're going to move overseas? Fine, then ban them from doing business in America. Make them fear being locked out of the American market more than afraid of being outpriced by foreigners. But that takes balls.

By the way those corporations make use of our law enforcement and our roads. Why can't they pony up for that? Why let them FREELOAD and put the burden on everyone else?

Got any justifications for that?

 

[cpwill]

Facebook paid $0 taxes in 2012 and got $429 million in tax refunds. While earning $1.1 BILLION in profits.

Our corporate taxes are too high, darn it!

Facebook Paid No Income Taxes In 2012: Report

:shrug: meanwhile Wal-Mart and other retailers pay pretty much just about the nominal rate.

The problem with our tax code is not that it is too high - it's that it is too complex. We need to reduce complexity and rates in order to maintain revenue, while allowing both Face Book and Wal-Mart to pay roughly equally.

 

[cpwill]

Facebook paid zero taxes.

So to charge them 1% taxes they're going to move overseas? Fine, then ban them from doing business in America.

Yeah. We can borrow the Chinese technology and build a Great Cyber Wall of America to keep out all the 'dangerous' information flows that Americans don't really need, anywho. :roll: