• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamentalism

Are there any differences between the christian right and islamic radicals?


  • Total voters
    50

Columbusite

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
808
Reaction score
6
Location
Columbus
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I have no idea what "arrogant to facts" is supposed to mean, but one is defined as a Christian Fundi by holding 5 ideals as true:
1. Inerrancy of the Scriptures
2. The virgin birth and the deity of Jesus
3. The doctrine of substitutionary atonement through God's grace and human faith
4. The bodily resurrection of Jesus
5. The authenticity of Christ's miracles (or, alternatively, his premillennial second coming)


I would think all this could be summed up by fundamentalists adhering to a literal interpretation of the Bible. I have never heard of a fundamentalist that doesn't believe in Christ's miracles.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,259
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I would think all this could be summed up by fundamentalists adhering to a literal interpretation of the Bible. I have never heard of a fundamentalist that doesn't believe in Christ's miracles.

Your typical Fundi will attribute scripture inerrancy to the modern bible of their choice, yes.

Where I differ with an a-typical Fundi is that I attribute scripture inerrancy to the original texts, and further realize, acknowledge and admit to various mistranslations in modern scripture.
 

jfuh

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
16,631
Reaction score
1,227
Location
Pacific Rim
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I have no idea what "arrogant to facts" is supposed to mean, but one is defined as a Christian Fundi by holding 5 ideals as true:
1. Inerrancy of the Scriptures
2. The virgin birth and the deity of Jesus
3. The doctrine of substitutionary atonement through God's grace and human faith
4. The bodily resurrection of Jesus
5. The authenticity of Christ's miracles (or, alternatively, his premillennial second coming)
As was clarified with 1069 what I meant to say was oblivious to facts.
Hence the rejection of the earth being any more than a few thousand years old, the insistence on creation.
To your 1. Inerrancy of scriptures, how can that be when the bible itself is full of self contradictions.

Finally I must ask, which do you hold higher, the teachings of christ or the deity of christ?
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,259
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

As was clarified with 1069 what I meant to say was oblivious to facts.

Understood.

Hence the rejection of the earth being any more than a few thousand years old, the insistence on creation.

Only those who take translated scripture literaly believe in creationism though.

To your 1. Inerrancy of scriptures, how can that be when the bible itself is full of self contradictions.

Mmmm...this is where I piss off all the other Fundies reading through this thread.....the bible is not scripture. It is a reasonable representation of scripture in translation, but the bible is not the trusted written word of God itself.

The very fact that the bible contains error proves this.

The written word of God contains no error, therefore anything which does contain error is not the written word of God.

The bible contains error, therefore the bible is not the written word of God…it is something ells.

Finally I must ask, which do you hold higher, the teachings of christ or the deity of christ?

They are one in the same, the man and his word.
 

cherokee

Devil Dog
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
7,486
Reaction score
789
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Checked the headlines again today and all the terrorists reports and or threats are from Islam based groups. Go figure.
just like yesterday, and the day before and the day before that..

Anybody have news of a Christian based group carrying out an attack and or plan?
Anything?
 

jfuh

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
16,631
Reaction score
1,227
Location
Pacific Rim
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Checked the headlines again today and all the terrorists reports and or threats are from Islam based groups. Go figure.
just like yesterday, and the day before and the day before that..

Anybody have news of a Christian based group carrying out an attack and or plan?
Anything?
Unibomber - was he muslim?
 

jfuh

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
16,631
Reaction score
1,227
Location
Pacific Rim
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Only those who take translated scripture literaly believe in creationism though.
You do not? Then you're not a fundy

Jerry said:
Mmmm...this is where I piss off all the other Fundies reading through this thread.....the bible is not scripture. It is a reasonable representation of scripture in translation, but the bible is not the trusted written word of God itself.

The very fact that the bible contains error proves this.

The written word of God contains no error, therefore anything which does contain error is not the written word of God.

The bible contains error, therefore the bible is not the written word of God…it is something ells.
So which "scriptures" are the word of god? Mark is quite contradictory with Mary - don't even get started with Judas - yet all "scriptures".

Jerry said:
They are one in the same, the man and his word.
The man is not quite the deity that I'm emphasizing here.
 

python416

Active member
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Messages
484
Reaction score
2
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

They are different in a few ways, but the major material similarities include:

1) they both do not accept differing opinions of believes in a pluralistic fashion

2) they both drive world events towards the "end of days"

3) they both value life of those they see as non-believer as less than their own, in practice


The ways that they differ don't really matter as much as those attributes they share. Any group that wants to bring the world to an end should be treated as the enemy of those who want this planet to continue on (like me).
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,259
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

You do not? Then you're not a fundy.

So which "scriptures" are the word of god? Mark is quite contradictory with Mary - don't even get started with Judas - yet all "scriptures".

The man is not quite the deity that I'm emphasizing here.

I'm afraid that I am unable to adequately discuss my opinion on this further until I can efficiently read and speak Hebrew.

Despite that, however, I have found that I am quite adapt at defending the bible from accusations of hypocrisy.....this is mainly because such observations of hypocrisy stem from translated works, which, again, will inherently contain errors if for no other reason than Hebrew doesn't directly translate into English.

By examining a spicific objection and looking up the Hebrew words involved, correcting a "hypocrisy" is possible, and is good exorcize for learning scripture as well.
 

nes

Active member
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Messages
382
Reaction score
6
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I'm not offended at all. I believe people have the right to speak out their beliefs. With America having a population of over 250 million, I think its expected with that many people, some would disagree within a certian religion.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,975
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I'm not offended at all. I believe people have the right to speak out their beliefs. With America having a population of over 250 million, I think its expected with that many people, some would disagree within a certian religion.

The US population is well over 300,000,000, currently.
 

Inuyasha

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
1,510
Reaction score
58
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I was with you until the bolded statement. while FCCs are a bitch to deal with when they involve themselves in politics, they aren't trying to send everyone else to hell. on the contrary, they are trying to spread their message so that the rest of us can go to heaven.


I am not so sure i would want to go to heaven if i had to spend it with Pat Robertson.. he might put a hit on me if I didn't agree with him. Or how about Falwell? How'd you like to spend eternity with that sicko? Or Jimmy Swaggart? Fundamentalists are dangerous no matter what their religion or politics.
 

cherokee

Devil Dog
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
7,486
Reaction score
789
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Unibomber - was he muslim?

Not sure..I think I remember reading he was anti-tech.
 

Inuyasha

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
1,510
Reaction score
58
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Not sure..I think I remember reading he was anti-tech.

He was a Polish Catholic with roots right here in Chicago.

He had nothing to do with any Muslims (although there are Muslims in Poland for the past 500 plus years).
 

cherokee

Devil Dog
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
7,486
Reaction score
789
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

He was a Polish Catholic with roots right here in Chicago.

He had nothing to do with any Muslims (although there are Muslims in Poland for the past 500 plus years).

Kool thanks for the info...;)

I'm really looking Christian based groups.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
546
Location
We can't stop here this is bat country!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

How so exactly?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

"She had sex outside of marriage stone her."

"Turn the other cheek."

"Smite at thy neck."

Not really seeing the connection there. :confused:

It's good to be a godless heathen objectiveness is fun.
 

Inuyasha

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
1,510
Reaction score
58
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Kool thanks for the info...;)

I'm really looking Christian based groups.

The Muslims of Poland was also an interesting thing for me when I first learned about it from a friend of mine in Krakow. he is an anthropologist, Here's an article that might serve as an introduction. in this case the source seems pretty good.

Islam in Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

nes

Active member
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Messages
382
Reaction score
6
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

How so exactly?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I don't see that quote anywhere in the bible, must your quote.

I think that obviously your not understanding the story. In the story, everyone that wanted to punish her sinned themselves but weren't stoned to death. It doesn't give them right to stone someone else to death without sinning. Even someone who hasn't sinned would sin by throwing the first stone at her (judging someone else). The 10 commandments aren't the only things in the bible that would cause you to sin. I think the bible has stories that are quite anti-government, the bible doesn't even talk about countries / government much.

At the time, the (jewish) government was the one that allowed people to stone people to death. No where in the bible does it condone it as many people would like you to believe. Also following orders from a government does not prevent you from sinning if you do a sinful act.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,975
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I don't see that quote anywhere in the bible, must your quote.


John, chapter 8, verse 7.



1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

(... at which point, as the old joke goes, a stone came flying out of the crowd and knocked the woman unconscious. Jesus peered into the crowd, squinting, caught sight of the culprit, and sighed with exasperation, "Jeez, Mom! You're really starting to p!ss me off!") :mrgreen:
 

Felicity

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
11,946
Reaction score
1,717
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

(... at which point, as the old joke goes, a stone came flying out of the crowd and knocked the woman unconscious. Jesus peered into the crowd, squinting, caught sight of the culprit, and sighed with exasperation, "Jeez, Mom! You're really starting to p!ss me off!") :mrgreen:
:lamo That was a good one 1069--I'd never heard that one before!
:angel?:
 

nes

Active member
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Messages
382
Reaction score
6
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

doesn't match the bold print of your post

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Your leaving out "at her" which I believe implies he only meant making the statement for that certain situation intending it to be for one person, knowing that nobody else would be able to first cast a stone at her.
 

cherokee

Devil Dog
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
7,486
Reaction score
789
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

John, chapter 8, verse 7.



1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

(... at which point, as the old joke goes, a stone came flying out of the crowd and knocked the woman unconscious. Jesus peered into the crowd, squinting, caught sight of the culprit, and sighed with exasperation, "Jeez, Mom! You're really starting to p!ss me off!") :mrgreen:

damn that was too funny...
 

jfuh

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
16,631
Reaction score
1,227
Location
Pacific Rim
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

He was a Polish Catholic with roots right here in Chicago.

He had nothing to do with any Muslims (although there are Muslims in Poland for the past 500 plus years).
Bingo - a fundamentalist
When you become so wrapped up in your self righteousness seeing in only black and white - you start to think that regardless of the actions your actions are always right.
Just the same as the pathetic morons protesting at abortion clinics or advocating the killing of all abortion physicians.
Source 1
source 2


It's just that these days the only press coverage of "terrorists" are muslim - fact is we have just as many christian fundamentalists here. the mentalities between the two are indifferent.
 

nes

Active member
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Messages
382
Reaction score
6
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Lets see here, I believe that a small group of people do not represent an entire group of people. I don't put stickers in the back of a (my) car to show my beliefs. I have never went out to publicly protest anything. Just because some liberals publicly protest the Iraq war doesn't mean all of the liberals are against it. The name of this topic should be "Certain American Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamentalism."

I bet you that deaths caused by Muslim extremist (suicides) would statistically far outnumber deaths caused by Christian conservatives.
 

Columbusite

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
808
Reaction score
6
Location
Columbus
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I bet you that deaths caused by Muslim extremist (suicides) would statistically far outnumber deaths caused by Christian conservatives.

Christians had quite a head start, but they didn't have the weapons Muslims have now, so they can easily catch up in a relatively short period of time. Both Christian & Muslim extremists are whackjobs and I wouldn't say one is better than the other because they have killed quite as many people. Both are awful and an embarassment that they exist in this century.
 
Top Bottom