Americans Turn In Passports as New Tax Law Hits.....

[TurtleDude]

Yeppers. They are a pain in your ass and you in theirs.

when people fear their government we have a dictatorship

when the government fears its citizens we have a free constitutional republic

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Divided allegiances.

there is no division
Your allegiance is to no one but yourself, if your government seeks to enslave you,
you are left with few options

 

[PirateMk1]

I have serious issues with the US (and many state) Tax System. About the same amount of issues that I have with US Citizens who cannot by loyal to this nation and this nation alone; and/or who seek to avoid their duties as US Citizens. If you don't like the system and are unwilling to work to change it then either accept it or leave. Just don't expect us to let you back in or to let you take your US Assets with you when you go.

A Man cannot serve Two Masters.

That's your problem Tigger. You have a master other than yourself. I don't and wont. I bend my knee for no man. The US was built on the unique UNDUPILCATED concept the men and women here in this nation are their OWN masters. Its a shame really that people don't understand their history and its true importance and the uniqueness that is our country.

 

[joko104]

Which should be - NO ENTRY AT ALL, so far as I'm concerned.



States exist to ensure that people act in a proper manner and maintain appropriate morals and values. Any Man who does not agree with the morals and values of the Nation He calls home has a duty to either Overthrow the Government of that Nation or to Leave that Nation.

What makes your message so interesting is if the government were as you wish, who would be in categories that government would most least tolerate would include you. What you are posting about is a duty for political correctness statements and actions as dictated by the government. That certainly isn't who you are. So, which duty are you following? To overthrow the government or leaving the country - leaving everything behind?

 

[PirateMk1]

Which should be - NO ENTRY AT ALL, so far as I'm concerned.



States exist to ensure that people act in a proper manner and maintain appropriate morals and values. Any Man who does not agree with the morals and values of the Nation He calls home has a duty to either Overthrow the Government of that Nation or to Leave that Nation.

OUR nation was NOT founded on that principle. OURS is founded on the concept of the SOVEREIGN individual. Our governments prime function is that of providing a mechanism to settle disputes between ourselves and to present a unified front to the outside world. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

These people have the freedom to make the economic decision. If someone who lives in the US but keeps money overseas in an effort to reduce taxes, then I have an issue with that. If someone is physically living and working in another country (expats), then what the government is doing is an excessive burden on these people.

 

[Mr X]

That's your problem Tigger. You have a master other than yourself. I don't and wont. I bend my knee for no man. The US was built on the unique UNDUPILCATED concept the men and women here in this nation are their OWN masters.

lol. Try telling that to the slaves in the 18th & 19th century.

 

[Mr X]

Are there any other countries that taxes its citizens even if they live and work in another country?

I don't really agree with that idea.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

lol

hah so you agree that people living under socialist oppression are no better than slaves
dang now that's refreshing

 

[Mr X]

lol. Try telling that to the slaves in the 18th & 19th century.

hah so you agree that people living under socialist oppression are no better than slaves
dang now that's refreshing

Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. I wasn't talking about socialism or agreeing with anything...strange.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

lol. Try telling that to the slaves in the 18th & 19th century.

you bring up slaves from hundreds of years ago
and self identify with a philosophy that killed over 100 million people in the 20th century
so the story goes

 

[PirateMk1]

lol. Try telling that to the slaves in the 18th & 19th century.

I aint. They be dead. Further the problem was rectified. The US is not perfect nor has ever been perfect. Individual sovereignty is the basis of the foundation if you care to read about it. If you don't wish live as your own master then may your shackles rest lightly around your ankles.

This nation is in the process of evolution into one of TWO paths. The first being back toward the model of Europe of socialist democracy or sum such similar governmental model where people are subservient to the government. The government being only accountable to itself. The other admittedly less likely path which our founders envisioned is that of actualized sovereign individuals that our government is shrunken to the minimum size necessary to resolve disputes between ourselves and to defend ourselves from forces without. Where most of the population are self employed artisans, craftsmen, tradesmen, businessmen, and the like and most people who work for someone do so as a type of apprenticeship or to gather enough funds to start their own business. Industrial innovation is quickly and quietly evolving such that we will be forced to choose between to two ideas. The status quo is changing. We can either be in charge of our destiny or allow others to take charge of it.

 

[joko104]

Seems like we are all debating Tigger, but it is Tigger's message that is the dangerous one.

Populous revolts towards authoritarian government - whether to the left such as Russian Revolution, The French Revolution, Chinese Revolution, Venezuela - or to the right such as in Germany, Italy and Japan - are by lower income disempowered people like Tigger who want to government to take control and make people be right. In the end, it is those people who are the most victimized by getting their wish, because they have no power, no money, and no influence - and therefore no matter what the model of government is, the more powerful and authoritarian the government is, they more they are the defenseless victims of it.

If the government became as authoritarian as the way he thinks government should be, he would be more victimized by it than nearly anyone else on this forum because his thoughts, words and ways are most out of the loop of the views of current government and the masses. Authoritarian governments only tolerate mousey totally submissive people in word and action. Such a government would not tolerate Tigger - or this forum for that matter.

 

[Tigger]

rejected as both stupid and fascist

Well, you're batting .500 on that, TD.

So what you are saying is you like the Hugo Chavez model in which all foreign owned assets are seized by the government. Swell.

If all foreigners put up their assets for sale and pulled there $$ out, the USA economy would collapse by the end of the week. America is largely now owned by foreigners. It is their money, not American IOU funny-money, holding our economy together. The moment the government even talked of seizing foreign assets, our economy goes Great Depression times 5.

It is amazing how many respond to the rich deciding to take their money elsewhere with "good ridden." That is HOW DEEP hatred of wealth has become in this former capitalistic society. Other countries greatly WANT rich people to come there. They literally SELL citizenship. The USA so hates wealthy people many Americans want them to leave and take their filthy money with them. And, guess what? They - meaning you too - are getting their wish.

Those foreign assets would be sold off to private citizens. Of course all foreign assets owned by US Citizens would need to be disposed of as well. That includes foreign segments of US Companies and vice versa. Coca Cola can decide it it's an American company or a foreign one. If it's a foreign one its trademarks and patents are void in the US. Likewise with private citizens... you can have US assets OR foreign ones. Take your pick.

If we've become that entwined with our enemies, then maybe it's time for this country to go belly up. Hell, considering we required foreign assistance from France to found this nation to begin with because only 1 in 6 families in the Colonies had the balls to stand up to England, maybe this nation should never have been born to begin with.

I don't hate wealthy people. I hate ANYONE who is willing to put MONEY ahead of MORALS and VALUES. Regardless of whether they're roasting rate on a garbage can fire or eating beluga caviar from sterling silver trays.

That's your problem Tigger. You have a master other than yourself. I don't and wont. I bend my knee for no man. The US was built on the unique UNDUPILCATED concept the men and women here in this nation are their OWN masters. Its a shame really that people don't understand their history and its true importance and the uniqueness that is our country.

We all have a Master other than ourselves. IT's simply a matter of whether or not we want to accept that or not. I understand that the Founders of this nation were incredibly naive in believing that certain ideals and values did not need to be written down. Things like the ideal that this nation was one of morality and values, not one of social chaos and unlimited opportunities to act in an immoral and inappropriate manner.

What makes your message so interesting is if the government were as you wish, who would be in categories that government would most least tolerate would include you. What you are posting about is a duty for political correctness statements and actions as dictated by the government. That certainly isn't who you are. So, which duty are you following? To overthrow the government or leaving the country - leaving everything behind?

The FBI and I already know the answer to that. You can take from that statement what you will.

OUR nation was NOT founded on that principle. OURS is founded on the concept of the SOVEREIGN individual. Our governments prime function is that of providing a mechanism to settle disputes between ourselves and to present a unified front to the outside world. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

YOUR nation may be based on that by MINE most definitely is not. MY nation ended in the parlor of a home in Appomatox Courthouse almost a century and a half ago. It WAS a nation that my family had bled and killed to found less than a century before and one that we wore chestnut and gray to defend.

 

[joko104]

Well, you're batting .500 on that, TD.



Those foreign assets would be sold off to private citizens. Of course all foreign assets owned by US Citizens would need to be disposed of as well. That includes foreign segments of US Companies and vice versa. Coca Cola can decide it it's an American company or a foreign one. If it's a foreign one its trademarks and patents are void in the US. Likewise with private citizens... you can have US assets OR foreign ones. Take your pick.

If we've become that entwined with our enemies, then maybe it's time for this country to go belly up. Hell, considering we required foreign assistance from France to found this nation to begin with because only 1 in 6 families in the Colonies had the balls to stand up to England, maybe this nation should never have been born to begin with.

I don't hate wealthy people. I hate ANYONE who is willing to put MONEY ahead of MORALS and VALUES. Regardless of whether they're roasting rate on a garbage can fire or eating beluga caviar from sterling silver trays.



We all have a Master other than ourselves. IT's simply a matter of whether or not we want to accept that or not. I understand that the Founders of this nation were incredibly naive in believing that certain ideals and values did not need to be written down. Things like the ideal that this nation was one of morality and values, not one of social chaos and unlimited opportunities to act in an immoral and inappropriate manner.



The FBI and I already know the answer to that. You can take from that statement what you will.



YOUR nation may be based on that by MINE most definitely is not. MY nation ended in the parlor of a home in Appomatox Courthouse almost a century and a half ago. It WAS a nation that my family had bled and killed to found less than a century before and one that we wore chestnut and gray to defend.

So basically you have a suicidal wish about government change? You want it to change in a way that would destroy you? That is more than a little bizarre to candid about it.

 

[ecofarm]

Seems like we are all debating Tigger, but it is Tigger's message that is the dangerous one.

Meh, this is nothing. Tigger's message is: 'kill cops instead of subjecting yourself to the justice system'.

 

[ecofarm]

We all have a Master other than ourselves.

But we haven't all seen Forest Faeries to prove it to ourselves.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

I aint. They be dead. Further the problem was rectified. The US is not perfect nor has ever been perfect. Individual sovereignty is the basis of the foundation if you care to read about it. If you don't wish live as your own master then may your shackles rest lightly around your ankles.

This nation is in the process of evolution into one of TWO paths. The first being back toward the model of Europe of socialist democracy or sum such similar governmental model where people are subservient to the government. The government being only accountable to itself. The other admittedly less likely path which our founders envisioned is that of actualized sovereign individuals that our government is shrunken to the minimum size necessary to resolve disputes between ourselves and to defend ourselves from forces without. Where most of the population are self employed artisans, craftsmen, tradesmen, businessmen, and the like and most people who work for someone do so as a type of apprenticeship or to gather enough funds to start their own business. Industrial innovation is quickly and quietly evolving such that we will be forced to choose between to two ideas. The status quo is changing. We can either be in charge of our destiny or allow others to take charge of it.

Sadly the commies are winning this fight

 

[Tigger]

Populous revolts towards authoritarian government - whether to the left such as Russian Revolution, The French Revolution, Chinese Revolution, Venezuela - or to the right such as in Germany, Italy and Japan - are by lower income disempowered people like Tigger who want to government to take control and make people be right. In the end, it is those people who are the most victimized by getting their wish, because they have no power, no money, and no influence - and therefore no matter what the model of government is, the more powerful and authoritarian the government is, they more they are the defenseless victims of it.

I'm a well-employed, middle class individual, thank you very much. In the end those who would be most victimized by a system such as the one I suggest are those who simply cannot or will not follow the rules. It's that simple. If you cannot live your life within the limitations of a decent society, then you do not deserve to reap any reward from that society. If that were to mean unpleasantnes for myself, then so be it.

If the government became as authoritarian as the way he thinks government should be, he would be more victimized by it than nearly anyone else on this forum because his thoughts, words and ways are most out of the loop of the views of current government and the masses. Authoritarian governments only tolerate mousey totally submissive people in word and action. Such a government would not tolerate Tigger - or this forum for that matter.

What you fail to realize is that it is the current Government and masses that are out of line with proper society. Therefore it is not myself but many of you who would find yourselves at the unpleasant end of the Government if it were to work the way I believe it should. In a proper society places such as this would still exist, though in a slightly different manner and with greater oversight.

So basically you have a suicidal wish about government change? You want it to change in a way that would destroy you? That is more than a little bizarre to candid about it.

I don't see how it is you suggest this is a suicidal ideal. I do believe that this nation needs to become much more Nationalistic and Isolationist, if not Authoritarian. If that were to lead to my downfall or the death of the nation, so be it.

 

[Fisher]

I'm an Authoritarian, Fisher. I believe in Nationalism as part of that. What is here should STAY HERE. What is out there should STAY THERE. Choose which side of the wall you want to be on and accept that you're not going to get a second chance if you make the wrong choice. It's that simple.

You would so totally hate living next door to me. My kids and feral cats are trespassers by nature.

 

[Tigger]

You would so totally hate living next door to me. My kids and feral cats are trespassers by nature.

I believe in fences and firearms. It wouldn't be an issue.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

What is here should STAY HERE

was the motto of the East German border guards?

 

[Fisher]

I believe in fences and firearms. It wouldn't be an issue.

I believe in one of those things too, so might still would be

 

[DVSentinel]

lol. Try telling that to the slaves in the 18th & 19th century.

And yet those slaves were better cared for and often had better lives than all but the elites under every socialist system ever tried. Very few "masters" were as capricious or oppressive as a socialist system. Socialism is nothing but slavery to the lazy and stupid. Only the lazy and stupid would ever fall for the promises of a false paradise offered by socialism.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

the false paradise offered by socialism

Quite true only under socialism would you kill the state's 'property' and bulldoze them into mass graves,
a slave owner wouldn't think of doing such a thing heh slaves are a capital asset
lawd DV this easier than shooting ill-liberals in a public swimming pool