• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Americans Turn In Passports as New Tax Law Hits.....

MMC

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
56,981
Reaction score
27,029
Location
Chicago Illinois
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
The number of Americans choosing to give up their citizenship has spiked dramatically this year as the government works to implement a new disclosure law aimed at stamping out tax evasion.

Some of the rush may be caused by Americans hoping to avoid the new disclosure requirements. Others living abroad say they are giving up their U.S. passport because they are tired of dealing with overly complicated tax filings.



Unlike most countries, the U.S. continues to tax citizens on all income, regardless of where it is earned or where they reside. For expats, filing taxes in two countries often means wrestling with a huge mountain of paperwork.

The increase comes as the U.S. prepares to implement the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, a new law that requires foreign institutions to report all assets owned by Americans.

The measure, approved by Congress in 2010, is aimed at recouping some of the hundreds of billions the government says it loses each year in unpaid taxes. The law also requires individuals with overseas assets to file additional forms.

Even individuals who are not among the super rich are considering giving up their citizenship -- especially when lower tax rates beckon in other countries.

For those who haven't paid their taxes, giving up citizenship isn't an easy way out. The government can still go after former citizens if evidence of tax evasion surfaces.

Plus, there's no statute of limitations and the IRS could then collect back taxes, said Scott Michel, president of Caplin & Drysdale, an international tax law firm.....snip~

Americans Turn In Passports as New Tax Law Hits - Yahoo! Finance

We do need to deal with Tax reform.....that is a fact. How much longer can we put it off? What do you think about people who would give up their Citizenship to avoid or try to avoid paying their taxes owed here?

What do you think about the issue of Dual Citizenship? Should there be such a thing? If one doesn't want to be part of that Country anymore. Why should they still carry that citizenship?
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
43,212
Reaction score
19,317
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The number of Americans choosing to give up their citizenship has spiked dramatically this year as the government works to implement a new disclosure law aimed at stamping out tax evasion.

Some of the rush may be caused by Americans hoping to avoid the new disclosure requirements. Others living abroad say they are giving up their U.S. passport because they are tired of dealing with overly complicated tax filings.



Unlike most countries, the U.S. continues to tax citizens on all income, regardless of where it is earned or where they reside. For expats, filing taxes in two countries often means wrestling with a huge mountain of paperwork.

The increase comes as the U.S. prepares to implement the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, a new law that requires foreign institutions to report all assets owned by Americans.

The measure, approved by Congress in 2010, is aimed at recouping some of the hundreds of billions the government says it loses each year in unpaid taxes. The law also requires individuals with overseas assets to file additional forms.

Even individuals who are not among the super rich are considering giving up their citizenship -- especially when lower tax rates beckon in other countries.

For those who haven't paid their taxes, giving up citizenship isn't an easy way out. The government can still go after former citizens if evidence of tax evasion surfaces.

Plus, there's no statute of limitations and the IRS could then collect back taxes, said Scott Michel, president of Caplin & Drysdale, an international tax law firm.....snip~

Americans Turn In Passports as New Tax Law Hits - Yahoo! Finance

We do need to deal with Tax reform.....that is a fact. How much longer can we put it off? What do you think about people who would give up their Citizenship to avoid or try to avoid paying their taxes owed here?

What do you think about the issue of Dual Citizenship? Should there be such a thing? If one doesn't want to be part of that Country anymore. Why should they still carry that citizenship?
I have no problem with dual citizenship, my kids are dual citizens of Russia and the US. Mostly because Russia considers them Russian citizens until they turn 18. Back on topic, I'm not sure what dual citizenship has to do with it.

Basically, I don't see what the issue is. They don't pay taxes and they don't have the benefits of being a US citizen. I'd have more of a problem if they tried to get out of their taxes but still expected the United States government to bail them out when the **** hits the fan in whatever country they're in.
 

MMC

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
56,981
Reaction score
27,029
Location
Chicago Illinois
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
I have no problem with dual citizenship, my kids are dual citizens of Russia and the US. Mostly because Russia considers them Russian citizens until they turn 18. Back on topic, I'm not sure what dual citizenship has to do with it.

Basically, I don't see what the issue is. They don't pay taxes and they don't have the benefits of being a US citizen. I'd have more of a problem if they tried to get out of their taxes but still expected the United States government to bail them out when the **** hits the fan in whatever country they're in.
Mornin' Rocket. :2wave: Yeah the piece is more on the issue of Americans giving up their Citizenship. Which if that's what they want to do. Then that's on them. Not much people can say or do about it.

Myself, I was asking what people thought of or about with those that have dual Citizenship. How they view it and all. As I know some that view it as having divided allegiances.
 

Tigger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
12,879
Reaction score
2,707
Location
New England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
I have no problem with the US Government going after foreign monies owed by American citizens. I also have no problem with these people giving up thier US Citizenship if they don't want to pay the taxes. Where I have the problem is with these people being allowed to have dual-citizenship in the first place and letting them back into the US after they've renounced their US Citizenship. One person, one citizenship, one loyalty. It's that simple. Of course if they choose to renounce their US Citizenship, all of their assets here in the US should be ceased as well.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
250,734
Reaction score
75,494
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
people who give up their citizenship to avoid a parasitic federal government should be treated the same as citizens of other countries if they want to come back here and visit. Lots of Ohio residents have become citizens of say Florida because those states don't have income taxes. My father in law did that as did my late Uncle (Rhode Island). That meant that the greedy Ohio government didn't get a penny of their incomes and (this has since been repealed) none of my Uncle's estate when he died

There is nothing wrong with people legally avoiding a malignant tax scheme. The fascist attitude that all of their property in this country be forfeited is terminally stupid
 

Tigger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
12,879
Reaction score
2,707
Location
New England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
There is nothing wrong with people legally avoiding a malignant tax scheme. The fascist attitude that all of their property in this country be forfeited is terminally stupid
In my mind this is about something much greater than the ridiculous State and Federal Tax systems. This is about where one's loyalties lay.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
250,734
Reaction score
75,494
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
In my mind this is about something much greater than the ridiculous State and Federal Tax systems. This is about where one's loyalties lay.
What you should be complaining about is a government that treats the most productive tax payers as golden geese to be plucked plucked and plucked again
 

MMC

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
56,981
Reaction score
27,029
Location
Chicago Illinois
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
people who give up their citizenship to avoid a parasitic federal government should be treated the same as citizens of other countries if they want to come back here and visit. Lots of Ohio residents have become citizens of say Florida because those states don't have income taxes. My father in law did that as did my late Uncle (Rhode Island). That meant that the greedy Ohio government didn't get a penny of their incomes and (this has since been repealed) none of my Uncle's estate when he died

There is nothing wrong with people legally avoiding a malignant tax scheme. The fascist attitude that all of their property in this country be forfeited is terminally stupid

Mornin TD :2wave: ......but what about an allegiance to a Country. Or like Tigger said they renounce but then want to return. Due to some unseen circumstances?
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I have no problem with the US Government going after foreign monies owed by American citizens. I also have no problem with these people giving up thier US Citizenship if they don't want to pay the taxes. Where I have the problem is with these people being allowed to have dual-citizenship in the first place and letting them back into the US after they've renounced their US Citizenship. One person, one citizenship, one loyalty. It's that simple. Of course if they choose to renounce their US Citizenship, all of their assets here in the US should be ceased as well.
A conservative who doesn't believe in property rights and supports capricious use of government power in a most autocratic way---how very progressive of you.
 

ecofarm

global liberation
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
117,832
Reaction score
33,963
Location
Miami
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Renouncing US citizenship is one of the most stupid things a person can do. We shouldn't be surprised if .0001% of the population does it.
 

Tigger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
12,879
Reaction score
2,707
Location
New England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
What you should be complaining about is a government that treats the most productive tax payers as golden geese to be plucked plucked and plucked again
I have serious issues with the US (and many state) Tax System. About the same amount of issues that I have with US Citizens who cannot by loyal to this nation and this nation alone; and/or who seek to avoid their duties as US Citizens. If you don't like the system and are unwilling to work to change it then either accept it or leave. Just don't expect us to let you back in or to let you take your US Assets with you when you go.

A Man cannot serve Two Masters.
 

Tigger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
12,879
Reaction score
2,707
Location
New England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
A conservative who doesn't believe in property rights and supports capricious use of government power in a most autocratic way---how very progressive of you.
I'm an Authoritarian, Fisher. I believe in Nationalism as part of that. What is here should STAY HERE. What is out there should STAY THERE. Choose which side of the wall you want to be on and accept that you're not going to get a second chance if you make the wrong choice. It's that simple.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
250,734
Reaction score
75,494
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Mornin TD :2wave: ......but what about an allegiance to a Country. Or like Tigger said they renounce but then want to return. Due to some unseen circumstances?
Greg Rudzeski was a famous tennis player from Canada. Canada didn't give him much support but Britain-wanting to make a run at the Davis Cup with Tim Henman offered him support and he became a British citizen and represented them in the Davis Cup and the Olympics. He was not banned from playing in Canada. Some of the former Soviet Socialist Republics have decided Tennis is the sport they want to be known for so they have encouraged young RUSSIAN girl players to become citizens of their republics to play Fed Cup and the Olympics. In some cases these girls still live in Moscow but represent say Kazakhstan in the Olympics

Here is one of the more prominent examples (US and Wimbledon Doubles Champion)


Yaroslava Shvedova - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


she has no problem playing in Russia

in both cases we have people who switched allegiance for financial reasons
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I have serious issues with the US (and many state) Tax System. About the same amount of issues that I have with US Citizens who cannot by loyal to this nation and this nation alone; and/or who seek to avoid their duties as US Citizens. If you don't like the system and are unwilling to work to change it then either accept it or leave. Just don't expect us to let you back in or to let you take your US Assets with you when you go.

A Man cannot serve Two Masters.
They can re-enter based on the same terms and conditions as anybody else from their new homeland can. It is somewhat disturbing that you seem completely ignorant of the reality that without foreign investment in the US over the last century, we would look like India.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
250,734
Reaction score
75,494
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I have serious issues with the US (and many state) Tax System. About the same amount of issues that I have with US Citizens who cannot by loyal to this nation and this nation alone; and/or who seek to avoid their duties as US Citizens. If you don't like the system and are unwilling to work to change it then either accept it or leave. Just don't expect us to let you back in or to let you take your US Assets with you when you go.

A Man cannot serve Two Masters.
states exist to serve the people not the other way around
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
250,734
Reaction score
75,494
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
It's a mutual hate-affair actually.
an interesting comment. Many of us see government as a necessary evil-sort of like dental checkups, prostate exams and colonoscopies
 

Tigger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
12,879
Reaction score
2,707
Location
New England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
They can re-enter based on the same terms and conditions as anybody else from their new homeland can. It is somewhat disturbing that you seem completely ignorant of the reality that without foreign investment in the US over the last century, we would look like India.
Which should be - NO ENTRY AT ALL, so far as I'm concerned.

states exist to serve the people not the other way around
States exist to ensure that people act in a proper manner and maintain appropriate morals and values. Any Man who does not agree with the morals and values of the Nation He calls home has a duty to either Overthrow the Government of that Nation or to Leave that Nation.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
250,734
Reaction score
75,494
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Which should be - NO ENTRY AT ALL, so far as I'm concerned.



States exist to ensure that people act in a proper manner and maintain appropriate morals and values. Any Man who does not agree with the morals and values of the Nation He calls home has a duty to either Overthrow the Government of that Nation or to Leave that Nation.
rejected as both stupid and fascist
 

AngryOldGuy

double secret probation
Joined
Aug 3, 2013
Messages
2,917
Reaction score
658
Location
Phx,Az
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
What you should be complaining about is a government that treats the most productive taxpayers as golden geese to be plucked plucked and plucked again
First they whine about all the jobs going offshore,
now complaining about capital fleeing offshore?
They are taking all the golden eggs, now no more golden Geese?
Wealthy people didn't get that way cuz they're dumb

 

joko104

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
60,931
Reaction score
21,527
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I have no problem with the US Government going after foreign monies owed by American citizens. I also have no problem with these people giving up thier US Citizenship if they don't want to pay the taxes. Where I have the problem is with these people being allowed to have dual-citizenship in the first place and letting them back into the US after they've renounced their US Citizenship. One person, one citizenship, one loyalty. It's that simple. Of course if they choose to renounce their US Citizenship, all of their assets here in the US should be ceased as well.
So what you are saying is you like the Hugo Chavez model in which all foreign owned assets are seized by the government. Swell.

If all foreigners put up their assets for sale and pulled there $$ out, the USA economy would collapse by the end of the week. America is largely now owned by foreigners. It is their money, not American IOU funny-money, holding our economy together. The moment the government even talked of seizing foreign assets, our economy goes Great Depression times 5.

It is amazing how many respond to the rich deciding to take their money elsewhere with "good ridden." That is HOW DEEP hatred of wealth has become in this former capitalistic society. Other countries greatly WANT rich people to come there. They literally SELL citizenship. The USA so hates wealthy people many Americans want them to leave and take their filthy money with them. And, guess what? They - meaning you too - are getting their wish.
 

GottaGo

Rock and a hard place
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
5,635
Reaction score
4,910
Location
Miles to go before I sleep
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Considering having paid income taxes to Puerto Rico on income earned there, and then also being required to file with the US government including that income, for which a 85% credit is allowed for the income tax paid to Puerto Rico, effectively paying 115% of the tax liability, I'd say if people do not reside in the US, do not earn their income in the US, and are not availing themselves of the services those taxes pay for, then renouncing their citizenship is the way to go.

If the income is earned in the US, by US Citizens, then it should be taxed as such.*

*This statement is made without getting into what taxes should be applied or how to tax it.
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
43,212
Reaction score
19,317
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Mornin' Rocket. :2wave: Yeah the piece is more on the issue of Americans giving up their Citizenship. Which if that's what they want to do. Then that's on them. Not much people can say or do about it.

Myself, I was asking what people thought of or about with those that have dual Citizenship. How they view it and all. As I know some that view it as having divided allegiances.
Divided allegiances are probably somewhat to be expected if you come from another country. I don't particularly want my kids to forget that they are from Russia. I wish I could give them more connection to that culture.

Technically, there's only a few countries that the US actually acknowledges dual citizenship (like Canada and I think Ireland for some reason) - very friendly ones. My kids' "dual" citizenship is not officially acknowledged, but the Russian Federation considers them citizens of Russia and the United States considers them citizens of the US. Everybody knows that too, but "offically," there are no dual citizens of the US and Russia.
 

AngryOldGuy

double secret probation
Joined
Aug 3, 2013
Messages
2,917
Reaction score
658
Location
Phx,Az
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Today it is un-American to pay your taxes
what is being done in this country to productive citizens is un-American
a true patriot would do all that he or she can to keep: the fruit of his labors
That's the American thing to do
and if that is to include fleeing the country then so be it.
By depriving the vampiric parasites of the blood they need to survive
you are doing the nation a service :tongue4:
 

TiredOfLife

Banned
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
2,817
Reaction score
582
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
an interesting comment. Many of us see government as a necessary evil-sort of like dental checkups, prostate exams and colonoscopies
Yeppers. They are a pain in your ass and you in theirs.
 
Top Bottom