Americans Dont Care!!!

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Navy Pride:
Of course you hold them accountable and the way you do that is at the ballot box........

It applies to when they are making decisions that are against what you elected them for........

Since you did not vote for President Bush that does not apply........

OK, I have no arguement here. I certainly hope we do not lose any more of your buddies.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

American's don't care? I think our whole problem is we care to much. We give credance to complaints from corrupt institutions, we formed the LN and UN out of a sense of optimism, and we have watched and remained silent while it has been taken over by dictators and despots, since Alger Hiss, it has become corrupt. My Wilsonian principles have been hijacked by the very same corrupt institutions that the LN and UN were supposed to eliminate! Why didn't we join the LN, the same reason why we shouldn't have joined the U.N.

Damn the man, save the Republic!

Libertarian isolationism, not pasifism, U.S. pragmatism now!

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
American's don't care? I think our whole problem is we care to much. We give credance to complaints from corrupt institutions, we formed the LN and UN out of a sense of optimism, and we have watched and remained silent while it has been taken over by dictators and despots, since Alger Hiss, it has become corrupt. My Wilsonian principles have been hijacked by the very same corrupt institutions that the LN and UN were supposed to eliminate! Why didn't we join the LN, the same reason why we shouldn't have joined the U.N.

Damn the man, save the Republic!

Libertarian isolationism, not pasifism, U.S. pragmatism now!

I can see some truth to your words. Any suggestions on how we should proceed from here?

 

[Claiminglight]

Many people seem to be concerned with the rules Bush broke when he supported this war (and I would agree that he did break rules). But when it comes down to it- he did what many people would consider Good.

He is leading an effort to help to free an oppressed people. He has braved the scorn of his fellow Americans, the possibility of impeachment, and the chance of global disrespect. This is an act that may be likened to your favorite comic book super hero.

Don't get me wrong. I'm don't whole-heartedly follow anyone. I'm a libertarian, for Christ's sake- we don't have any good leaders.

I don't pretend to understand Bush's true motivations. But motivations are ultimately unimportant- only results matter. If freeing these people was but a side effect of some money-making scheme that Bush was involved in, I would still support that scheme. I wonder if I'm alone in that regard.

As a last note, I present this: Can anyone debate that, given enough effort, we can bring true peace to Iraq?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Claiminglight:
Many people seem to be concerned with the rules Bush broke when he supported this war (and I would agree that he did break rules). But when it comes down to it- he did what many people would consider Good.

He is leading an effort to help to free an oppressed people. He has braved the scorn of his fellow Americans, the possibility of impeachment, and the chance of global disrespect. This is an act that may be likened to your favorite comic book super hero.

Don't get me wrong. I'm don't whole-heartedly follow anyone. I'm a libertarian, for Christ's sake- we don't have any good leaders.

I don't pretend to understand Bush's true motivations. But motivations are ultimately unimportant- only results matter. If freeing these people was but a side effect of some money-making scheme that Bush was involved in, I would still support that scheme. I wonder if I'm alone in that regard.

As a last note, I present this: Can anyone debate that, given enough effort, we can bring true peace to Iraq?

Welcome to debate politics.

Given enough effort, we can do alot. That's all I'm going to say right now. Again, welcome.

 

[Navy Pride]

OK, I have no arguement here. I certainly hope we do not lose any more of your buddies.

Sadly men die in war...Let hope they don't die in vain in this one.......

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Navy Pride:
Sadly men die in war...Let hope they don't die in vain in this one.......

Were in agreement here.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I can see some truth to your words. Any suggestions on how we should proceed from here?

Reform within the Republican party to move towards a more centrist stance, to make the term neo-con an equivalent to dixiecrat, yet keep our unity. I still don't think the solution will come from the left.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

And in actuality it can only come from the true right, not the Jesus freaks or the neo-con trotskyites, and certainly not from the lib al-qaeda sympathisers and appeasers!

Basically the cure is the libertarians and people like me.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I can see some truth to your words. Any suggestions on how we should proceed from here?

Sorry, the first one was my solution, but this one is for the U.N.: Push hard for reform maybe not with Bush as pres or anan as secretary general but when the time comes we need to use all of our clout to save the U.N. from itself, if we don't no one will, we're the only country with the authority to do such a thing, if our push for reform doesn't work we might need to threaten to leave, if that threat is not taken seriously, we should leave.

 

[nefarious_plot]

I agree that it wasn't the only reason provided. There was one study done that detailed 27 different reasons given for invading Iraq.

I agree w/ Wolfowitz that the reason that sold the war to the electorate was the threat to the US from Iraq. W/o that, the invasion is nakedly a liberal, social-engineering experiment in a country halfway around the world.
That wouldn't fly.

None of them any good.

Human rights cries doesnt fly coming from america. Is hypocritical and theres really no reality to the anybody caring what Hussien did to anybody.

There was no good reason for starting wars...never is.

 

[Claiminglight]

None of them any good.

Human rights cries doesnt fly coming from america. Is hypocritical and theres really no reality to the anybody caring what Hussien did to anybody.

There was no good reason for starting wars...never is.

I respect a degree of pacifism. But 'never' is a very strong word. Please accept my counterpoint.

Do you not think it strange that you said that there isn't a single person who cares about Hussein's murderous and tyrannical exploits, with regard to his own people?

Did you not also say that there is never a good reason to start war- an act which, by its very nature, condemns men to kill and die?

There seems to be an error in your reasoning. After all, if nobody cares what Hussein did- then you don't care. Hussein killed men. War kills men. But you have a strong opposition to war, it would seem.

I will not attempt to dissect your argument any further.

 

[Claiminglight]

Welcome to debate politics.

Given enough effort, we can do alot. That's all I'm going to say right now. Again, welcome.

Thanks for the welcome! I'll do my best to keep up.

 

[nefarious_plot]

WMD's were not the only reason we went into Iraq. Liberation, enforcing UN sanctions, ousting Saddam, etc. etc. were amongst the other reasons. I think many Americans don't care that the initial cause changed, because we are already there and need to finish the job. Not finishing it is a huge defeat to the US... an embarassing one at that. The failure of intelligence is also embarassing, but turning our back on the mess we would leave in Iraq if we leave, would be more embarassing.

There was no reason. Nothing but excuses and lame progandist nonesence.

 

[nefarious_plot]

I respect a degree of pacifism. But 'never' is a very strong word. Please accept my counterpoint.

Do you not think it strange that you said that there isn't a single person who cares about Hussein's murderous and tyrannical exploits, with regard to his own people?

Did you not also say that there is never a good reason to start war- an act which, by its very nature, condemns men to kill and die?

There seems to be an error in your reasoning. After all, if nobody cares what Hussein did- then you don't care. Hussein killed men. War kills men. But you have a strong opposition to war, it would seem.

I will not attempt to dissect your argument any further.

Nobdy cares what Hussien did. Its an excuse for war. Americans dont care about Iraqis..hell they dont care about there own people. It amazines me why you cant understand why nobody gives any credibilty in such matters. Americas murder rate is the highest in the world. There record abraod is filled with mistreatment of other nations citzens. The goverment of the US shows a regualr basis is disregard for human life. People just laugh when they hear America say they went after Hussien because it he was bad to people.


As far as your game of symantics ill just ignore that. Its not worth any more responce then this.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Nobdy cares what Hussien did. Its an excuse for war. Americans dont care about Iraqis..hell they dont care about there own people. It amazines me why you cant understand why nobody gives any credibilty in such matters. Americas murder rate is the highest in the world. There record abraod is filled with mistreatment of other nations citzens. The goverment of the US shows a regualr basis is disregard for human life. People just laugh when they hear America say they went after Hussien because it he was bad to people.


As far as your game of symantics ill just ignore that. Its not worth any more responce then this.

Guess who's come to save the day?

Alright you're doing it again you are mentioning the problems with the U.S. as if we're the only country with faults answer me this you useful idiot, name one country that has done more good for the entire world than the U.S.. Perhaps you should look into your own corrupt institutions before placing blame on the scape goat the great satan America(sarcastic emphasis added). You know the nazis did this to, but they blamed all their problems on the Jew it seems now that this tactic has been changed a bit and now the naz. . . I mean Islamic Radicals are now not only blaming the jew but also the U.S. It's a complete mystery to me how you people can actually be falling for propaganda that 50 years ago Americans would have shrugged off for what it was, pure and utter B.S. it would be almost laughable if it wasn't so sad.

 

[ANAV]

Nobdy cares what Hussien did. Its an excuse for war. Americans dont care about Iraqis..hell they dont care about there own people. It amazines me why you cant understand why nobody gives any credibilty in such matters. Americas murder rate is the highest in the world. There record abraod is filled with mistreatment of other nations citzens. The goverment of the US shows a regualr basis is disregard for human life. People just laugh when they hear America say they went after Hussien because it he was bad to people.


As far as your game of symantics ill just ignore that. Its not worth any more responce then this.

When you say American's don't care about Iraqis, are you saying all Americans? Are you saying most, some, a few, a couple? Did you take a poll? If it's just your opinion please say so.

I've been over there, I've had kids come to me with little gifts. One little girl (I would guess around 7 and 8 yrs old) drew a picture of an American flag and asked me how to write "Love" in English (or as she worded it American language). After she finished, I asked her to sign it. It is now in a scrapbook, along with a picture of her family and I, my wife keeps for me. So I care!

 

[nefarious_plot]

When you say American's don't care about Iraqis, are you saying all Americans? Are you saying most, some, a few, a couple? Did you take a poll? If it's just your opinion please say so.

I've been over there, I've had kids come to me with little gifts. One little girl (I would guess around 7 and 8 yrs old) drew a picture of an American flag and asked me how to write "Love" in English (or as she worded it American language). After she finished, I asked her to sign it. It is now in a scrapbook, along with a picture of her family and I, my wife keeps for me. So I care!

Yeah..right. Americans are hypocrits see. You say you care why? Cause you have had ohh rahh Leen Greendwood music and propganda shoved down your throats. Where is you care for the rest of the world? Where is you care for the people in your own country. Where was your care for Iraqis during Iran Iraq war? Caring now its convient for your potlics still wont recive any credibilty. Its all just two faced sharads.

 

[akyron]

Sorry, the first one was my solution, but this one is for the U.N.: Push hard for reform maybe not with Bush as pres or anan as secretary general but when the time comes we need to use all of our clout to save the U.N. from itself, if we don't no one will, we're the only country with the authority to do such a thing, if our push for reform doesn't work we might need to threaten to leave, if that threat is not taken seriously, we should leave.

Someone had the suggestion to make the UN temporarily live and work in the the Country deemed the most rife with problems. There might be more incentive to clean it up that way.

I kind of agree with that to a point. Just drop off Anan and Co. in Sudan or Darfur. Get started fellas! Cya next year for an evaluation.

 

[cnredd]

Someone had the suggestion to make the UN temporarily live and work in the the Country deemed the most rife with problems. There might be more incentive to clean it up that way.

I kind of agree with that to a point. Just drop off Anan and Co. in Sudan or Darfur. Get started fellas! Cya next year for an evaluation.

YAY!!!! That was ME!!!!

Although I believe the UN should be disbanded, how about this for a compromise...Every two years, the UN delegates have a vote on where the most pressing need is in the world(currently, I'd go with Sudan)...

Here comes the fun part...The UN packs up, gathers the airline tickets...and GOES there!

No more mid-afternoon tea breaks and immunity status...Watch the genocide firsthand from the shack-view...

Maybe that will get them to do a little problem-solving...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=2067&page=6&highlight=Sudan

Thanks for the memories....:2wave:

 

[nefarious_plot]

Funny Americans whine about the UN still..why? You dont listen to it. Why should you even belong to it.

 

[cnredd]

Funny Americans whine about the UN still..why? You dont listen to it. Why should you even belong to it.

And yet you whine about America...yet don't belong to it...

Such is the hypocritical irony, eh?:roll:

 

[nefarious_plot]

Yeah whing. Pointing out your conistant childish whing about an orgnastion you dont want to belong to is whinng...yeah..:roll:

 

[Surenderer]

Well the U.N. has constantly said tried to change the Palestine-Israeli problem (which many of the Worlds other problems come from) but one country constantly veto's any effort to try to resolve that problem.....i.e. vetoing resoulutions that would send in peacekeepers etc.....You talk bad about the U.N. but that comprises 94% of the World's population representation...who would be so arrogant to do such a thing?....wait nevermind




Richard Perle, :
"I do not believe that the United States should be bound by the same rules as the smallest African nation. Life isn't like that

 

[cnredd]

Yeah whing. Pointing out your conistant childish whing about an orgnastion you dont want to belong to is whinng...yeah..:roll:

Calling to "disband them", followed by a "compromise" is now "constant childish whining"?

I've heard of "reading between the lines" before, but you're just blatently making stuff up now...:roll: