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American social conservatives giving tacit support to Putin's anti-gay law

Einzige

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/....html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003&ir=Gay+Voices

NEW YORK -- As the hub of the Soviet Union, Russia was reviled for rights abuses by many U.S. conservatives during the Cold War. Now some are voicing support and admiration as Russian authorities crack down on gay-rights activism.

The latest step drawing praise from social conservatives is a bill signed into law Sunday by President Vladimir Putin that would impose hefty fines for holding gay pride rallies or providing information about the gay community to minors.

"You admire some of the things they're doing in Russia against propaganda," said Austin Ruse, president of the U.S.-based Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute. "On the other hand, you know it would be impossible to do that here."

Ruse, whose institute is seeking accreditation at the United Nations, plans to travel to Russia this summer to meet with government officials and civic leaders.

"We want to let them know they do in fact have support among American NGOs (non-governmental organizations) on social issues," he said.

Among others commending Russia's anti-gay efforts was Peter LaBarbera of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality.

"Russians do not want to follow America's reckless and decadent promotion of gender confusion, sexual perversion, and anti-biblical ideologies to youth," LaBarbera said on his website.

In a sign of Russia's evolving stature among some U.S. social conservatives, the Illinois-based World Congress of Families plans to hold its eighth international conference at the Kremlin's Palace of Congresses in Moscow next year. Past conferences in Europe, Mexico and Australia have brought together opponents of abortion and same-sex marriage from dozens of countries.

"The Kremlin used to be a no-no for conservatives," said Larry Jacobs, managing director of the World Congress. "We're going to redeem that building."

The website for the September 2014 conference declares that Russia, "with its historic commitment to deep spirituality and morality, can be a hope for the natural family supporters from all over the world."

Jacobs, in an interview, drew a link between Russia's disapproval of homosexuality and its worries about a population decline.

"They've got a problem with marriage rates and fertility, and it doesn't help if you're encouraging non-reproductive behavior," he said.

Abortion remains legal in Russia through the first 12 weeks of pregnancy – a contrast to the general view of most U.S. social conservatives that abortion should be outlawed. However, the current abortion law – passed in 2011 – is more restrictive than its predecessor.

There's little doubt that Russians, overall, are far less supportive of gay rights than Americans. According to a Pew Research Center survey released June 4, only 16 percent of Russians said homosexuality should be accepted by society, compared to 60 percent in the U.S., and 80 percent or higher in Canada, Spain and Germany. However, there's less support for gay rights in some Eastern European countries, and even in Western Europe the issue can fuel conflict, as evidenced by recent clashes in France between far-right protesters and police over a new gay-marriage law.

The Obama administration has said it would make gay rights an important part of its foreign policy, raising the possibility that countries viewed as discriminating against gays could suffer consequences.

Secretary of State John Kerry outlined this approach on June 19 at a gay pride event at the State Department. He did not mention Russia by name, though he spoke disapprovingly of "anti-propaganda laws in Eastern Europe" that are targeting gay-rights demonstrators.

"We just have to keep standing up for tolerance and for diversity," Kerry said.

The Russian bill has been assailed by gay-rights and human-rights groups in the U.S.

"The admiration of some American conservatives for the repressive Russian policies regarding gay rights are quite simply the words of snake-oil salesmen," said Roberta Sklar of the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission.

"They have lost their footing on U.S. soil and are trying to breathe life into a dying ideology abroad," she said.

This angers me tremendously for two main reasons, neither of which is the usual liberal moral outrage predicted on human rights:

1. I am not a nationalist; America is not a collective I voluntarily identify with. But most American conservatives are. One of the principle building blocks of nationalism is sovereignty: the belief that nation-states are inviolable units, 'in-themselves' in the language of German philosophy.

That traditionally extended to other nations - hence the rule of non-intervention American conservatives once hewed to. How can they then deign themselves fit to intervene in Russian affairs? It smacks of internationalism.

2. On a broader note, why was repression in Russia heinous only when a Bolshevik government committed it? I'm less concerned with the abuses as such, but hypocrisy galls me.
 

trfjr

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This angers me tremendously for two main reasons, neither of which is the usual liberal moral outrage predicted on human rights:

1. I am not a nationalist; America is not a collective I voluntarily identify with. But most American conservatives are. One of the principle building blocks of nationalism is sovereignty: the belief that nation-states are inviolable units, 'in-themselves' in the language of German philosophy.

That traditionally extended to other nations - hence the rule of non-intervention American conservatives once hewed to. How can they then deign themselves fit to intervene in Russian affairs? It smacks of internationalism.

2. On a broader note, why was repression in Russia heinous only when a Bolshevik government committed it? I'm less concerned with the abuses as such, but hypocrisy galls me.

please provide a link to that article so i can better decide if it is creditable and who are these social conservatives that are in support of Putin decision are they just some nut jobs on some obscure blog?
 

Einzige

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There's a link at the top. More, here's a link to the Russian World Congress of Families Russian page:

World Congress of Families VIII, 2014, Moscow

I long for the day when right-libertarians stop kneejerkingly fellating social conservatives.
 

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Russia Anti-Gay Bill Admired By Some U.S. Conservatives



This angers me tremendously for two main reasons, neither of which is the usual liberal moral outrage predicted on human rights:

1. I am not a nationalist; America is not a collective I voluntarily identify with. But most American conservatives are. One of the principle building blocks of nationalism is sovereignty: the belief that nation-states are inviolable units, 'in-themselves' in the language of German philosophy.

That traditionally extended to other nations - hence the rule of non-intervention American conservatives once hewed to. How can they then deign themselves fit to intervene in Russian affairs? It smacks of internationalism.

2. On a broader note, why was repression in Russia heinous only when a Bolshevik government committed it? I'm less concerned with the abuses as such, but hypocrisy galls me.

Russia was a deeply religious and Christian country before the days of communism. You should remember that. Because of immoral actions like abortion, over time, and because Russia does not have large immigration numbers, they have seen the impact of abortion on their society's future.

You should study "replacement rates" globally, and witness the destruction of abortion on nations.

It's never too late to get it right. But wait, science disagrees with that statement concerning replacement rates of societies. There is a point when it IS too late.

Without immigration, America would be facing the same dilemma Russia is. Not able to even replace the population of today. A dying society of people. Pretty tragic if you ask me.
 

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Russia before Communism was also a land with six thousand square miles of railroad track servicing seven hundred thousand square miles of land, anti-Jewish pogroms and police spies.

I believe in freedom far too much to have supported either the Whites or the Reds. I am a narodnik, through and through. And as such I can sanction neither Stalin's forced industrialization or Putin's forced reproduction.

And why? Because both rest on force.
 

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The ongoing resurrection of the Soviet social conservatism (now, with some Eastern Orthodox sauce poured on the top) is about the last thing any right-libertarian would celebrate.

The religious statists approve of the Putinistas? Of course they do. Why wouldn't they? No libertarian, left or right, will find anything positive in the current Russian regime.
 

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Not consistent ones, no. But Friedman defended Pinochet's anti-homosexual law, Rothbard defended Buchanan's inane anti-gay proposals, and I have no faith in the fusionists not to assume their natural positions: knees bent, tongues planted firmly to boots.
 

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Would be a bigger deal I think if it was a public official saying these kind of things, otherwise its just kinda meh there's lots of wackos who run all sorts of NGOs, "churches" and charities out there.
 

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Russia was a deeply religious and Christian country before the days of communism. .

And during "the days of communism" it was a country where one could be easily arrested and murdered for being "religious and Christian" (among many other things). But it is not like the three amigos - Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin - went out, guns blasting, and killed tens of millions, with their own little hands. The "deeply religious" country had managed, somehow, to produce enormous numbers of labor camp guards, executioners and informers. Makes you question the value of that "deep Christianity", does it not?


Because of immoral actions like abortion
.

Abortion was banned under Stalin, in case you did not know.

Without immigration, America would be facing the same dilemma Russia is. Not able to even replace the population of today. A dying society of people. Pretty tragic if you ask me.

Perhaps. And what does this have to do with gay rights and the current re-Stalinilization of "public morality"?
 

Masada

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Russia before Communism was also a land with six thousand square miles of railroad track servicing seven hundred thousand square miles of land, anti-Jewish pogroms and police spies.

I believe in freedom far too much to have supported either the Whites or the Reds. I am a narodnik, through and through. And as such I can sanction neither Stalin's forced industrialization or Putin's forced reproduction.

And why? Because both rest on force.

And Russia before Stalin?
 

Masada

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And during "the days of communism" it was a country where one could be easily arrested and murdered for being "religious and Christian" (among many other things). But it is not like the three amigos - Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin - went out, guns blasting, and killed tens of millions, with their own little hands. The "deeply religious" country had managed, somehow, to produce enormous numbers of labor camp guards, executioners and informers. Makes you question the value of that "deep Christianity", does it not?




Abortion was banned under Stalin, in case you did not know.



Perhaps. And what does this have to do with gay rights and the current re-Stalinilization of "public morality"?

What did increasingly immoral societal acceptance have to do with Russia's turn to communism? Stalin banned abortion, and killed all the Christians. Kinda makes one wonder his motives behind banning abortion right? Why would he ban abortion and kill all the Christians? Hmmmm, I've got it! To ensure Russia be rid of Christianity forever. He got pretty darn close to achieving that wouldn't you say????
 

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And Russia before Stalin?

Russia had been a backwards autocratic hellhole by the standards of backwards autocratic hellholes since the assassination of Aleksandr drove the nation into an anti-modern, anti-industrial funk. Russia alone was untouched in Europe by the liberal-capitalist revolutions of 1848, because that "deeply religious and Christian" man Tsar Nicholas declared that modernity was a "political infection" which he intended to "immunize the continent" against.
 

Einzige

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What did increasingly immoral societal acceptance have to do with Russia's turn to communism? Stalin banned abortion, and killed all the Christians. Kinda makes one wonder his motives behind banning abortion right? Why would he ban abortion and kill all the Christians? Hmmmm, I've got it! To ensure Russia be rid of Christianity forever. He got pretty darn close to achieving that wouldn't you say????



This is inanity on a level with fluoridation conspiracies.

Stalin studied to be an Orthodox priest before his conversion to Communism, and even after retained many of the cultural traits of the reactionary Slavic freeholders he emerged from - Great Nation chauvinism, for example. Stalin lacked the international, cosmopolitan, liberalizing experiences of the bourgeois Lenin. He later unbanned the Orthodox Church during the Great Patriotic War to bolster morale.

He voiced atheism publicly, but it's very likely his worldview was colored by common Georgian Orthodoxy more than any other factors.
 

Masada

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Russia had been a backwards autocratic hellhole by the standards of backwards autocratic hellholes since the assassination of Aleksandr drove the nation into an anti-modern, anti-industrial funk. Russia alone was untouched in Europe by the liberal-capitalist revolutions of 1848, because that "deeply religious and Christian" man Tsar Nicholas declared that modernity was a "political infection" which he intended to "immunize the continent" against.

Still not going back as far as I am. 1848 is relatively modern still. Less than 200 years. Russia is over 1000 years old.
 

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This is inanity on a level with fluoridation conspiracies.

Stalin studied to be an Orthodox priest before his conversion to Communism, and even after retained many of the cultural traits of the reactionary Slavic freeholders he emerged from - Great Nation chauvinism, for example. Stalin lacked the international, cosmopolitan, liberalizing experiences of the bourgeois Lenin. He later unbanned the Orthodox Church during the Great Patriotic War to bolster morale.

He voiced atheism publicly, but it's very likely his worldview was colored by common Georgian Orthodoxy more than any other factors.

He was a converted atheist, but Orthodoxy colored his worldview more than any other factor?

Got any more jokes?
 

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And it has been both deeply religious and Christian and autocratic and tyrannical for most of that time.

Incidentally: did you know Communist East Germany had some of the strictest anti-gay laws in the Western world?

Paragraph 175 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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There's a link at the top. More, here's a link to the Russian World Congress of Families Russian page:

World Congress of Families VIII, 2014, Moscow

I long for the day when right-libertarians stop kneejerkingly fellating social conservatives.

because i ask for more information im kneejerkingly fellating social conservatives? to many times Huff and Puff post takes the words of a handful if that many and contributes it to all
they did it to the tea party, because one person at one tea party rally that wasn't even proven he belonged to the party had a racist sign it was enough for the Huff and Puff post to make a announcement that every one in the Tea Party are racist
 

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He was a converted atheist, but Orthodoxy colored his worldview more than any other factor?

Got any more jokes?

You do realize that it's entirely possible to deconvert from Christianity while still retaining a basically Christian worldview,right? This is especially true of atheists in nations like Stalin's deeply religious and Christian Georgia. Intellectually he may have been an atheist, but his masculinist, misogynistic and hohomophobic attitudes were of a kind with religious Georgian and Russian peasants.
 

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Russia Anti-Gay Bill Admired By Some U.S. Conservatives



This angers me tremendously for two main reasons, neither of which is the usual liberal moral outrage predicted on human rights:

1. I am not a nationalist; America is not a collective I voluntarily identify with. But most American conservatives are. One of the principle building blocks of nationalism is sovereignty: the belief that nation-states are inviolable units, 'in-themselves' in the language of German philosophy.

That traditionally extended to other nations - hence the rule of non-intervention American conservatives once hewed to. How can they then deign themselves fit to intervene in Russian affairs? It smacks of internationalism.

2. On a broader note, why was repression in Russia heinous only when a Bolshevik government committed it? I'm less concerned with the abuses as such, but hypocrisy galls me.

You seem to be operating under some really ridiculous misconception that C-Fam speaks for or represents the conservatives in America. They were founded in 1997. Most people never heard of them. Their facebook page has a piddling 13,261 likes and that's about as much as I could find out about their size and influence. If you want to spend your life getting outraged about non-news stories written about statements by someone in political splinter groups, you'll manage to keep yourself quite well occupied with a life of obsessing over the insignificant.

I guess it's better than being bored even if it seems like a rather nonproductive use of time (even less than posting on political forums like this). But good luck with your hobby.
 

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So really what we are seeing is that conservatives are more and more preferring being a communist russian because freedom doesn't suit them. let us see Russia has big restrictions on immigration, a strong christian influence in their government, hatred of gays, huge restrictions on speaking out against the established power structure (which is conservative), The ability to impose religious moral values in their laws, a huge amount of patriotism, and they still hold a lot of power around the world. Sounds like a conservative paradise to me. Seriously, conservatives are going to have to recognize a free market means a market free to provide for factions they dislike. Corporations see dollars in commerce, and commerce can mean things like pornography, drugs, homosexuality, female reproductive rights, muslim/jewish/atheist merchandising, and many other areas where catering to a minority makes a profit. The only way to stop businesses from slowly eroding moral laws is to have all businesses owned and directed by the state. Otherwise demand = presence.

It would seem for the conservative right that russia is a great fit for their ideas. Freedom means the freedom to have a gay relationship, to smoke a joint in peace, to have an abortion, to take birth control, to watch programming without censorship, to pray to any god or not at all, and to act in your life as you see fit as long as it does not hurt other people unreasonably. I put the unreasonably part in there because there are so many whiners who claim things like seeing a gay couple existing hurts them and other things like that. It is reasonable to assume you will not like everything you see and some things may offend you and therefor hurt you, and you do not have a right not to be offended or hurt in any way. But if you wish to live under the banning of all things offensive to christians and in a chirstian dominated land then Russia would seem to be your best bet. Perhaps it is that the conservatives hate the commies so much because they have what the conservatives wish for.
 

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So really what we are seeing is that conservatives are more and more preferring being a communist russian because freedom doesn't suit them.

Thanks for sharing your....uh... "thoughts" with us. :lamo :lamo :lamo
 

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Thanks for sharing your....uh... "thoughts" with us. :lamo :lamo :lamo
Anyone on the religious right who is not happy in the USA should think about moving to Russia and joining the Russian Orthodox Church.

They'll find a lot of people who 'think' just like them there.
 

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Anyone on the religious right who is not happy in the USA should think about moving to Russia and joining the Russian Orthodox Church.

They'll find a lot of people who 'think' just like them there.

And all those on the Marxist left who aren't happy here in the USA should think about moving to Russia and joining the communist party.

They'll find a lot of people who 'think' just like them there.

Or Cuba. Cuba might be even better because the airfare would be cheaper.
 

VanceMack

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Its goofy supporting Putin on just about anything and CERTAINLY on his recent stand on gay rights. Thats about as retarded as leftists wearing Che t-shirts.

I like the "socially conservative" catchall. Its a good way to avoid the reality that a good number of people in this country that oppose gay marriage also happen to be liberal democrats.
 

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Thanks for sharing your....uh... "thoughts" with us. :lamo :lamo :lamo

I have seen some of the things you post, and I would have to say communism is for you. I know you have probably been raised to dislike it, but it is what you want. You were sold a bill of goods that free people will chose the path you think is right, and that simply is not true. Free people will chose the path that is right for them, and some of that will involve homosexuality, drug use, sex in many different forms, abortion, the purchasing of materials you would find offensive, and a world of other things you do not like. That is freedom. It is dangerous and chaotic and does not involve the imposing of your specific moral values through laws. The more free you are the closer you are to anarchy. The closer people get to anarchy the more they do things you would consider immoral. So yes you want a government that has control over most areas of society like a communist country because only a communist country can truly control business which will always cater to that which you consider immoral.

You can delude yourself into thinking you are a person for freedom, but the very nature of social conservatism is the removal of freedom to act outside of the norm.
 
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