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American Medical Association declares abortion bans ‘violation of human rights’

cpwill

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The American Medical Association announced it was implementing a new policy that would provide legal protections for patients and doctors against governments attempting to criminalize reproductive health services.

It looks like the doctors have made their stance known.
Sure. I'll put that right next to their support of eugenics and chopping off kids private parts because puberty is awkward.

Left wing organizations say left wing things.
 

minnie616

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Sure. I'll put that right next to their support of eugenics and chopping off kids private parts because puberty is awkward.

Left wing organizations say left wing things.
I disagree.

Doctors should not neglect their patients.

They should be able carry out the very best medical procedures for their patients including pregnant woman.

And perform abortions before viability, whijch are much safer for the woman than pregnancy and childbirth.
……..
You seem to forgetting :

Savita Halappanavar (née Savita Andanappa Yalagi; 9 September 1981 – 28 October 2012) was a dentist of Indian origin, living in Ireland who died from sepsis due to medical negligence. The medical staff at University Hospital Galway denied her request for an abortion. ( the 17 week old fetus was dying and would not survive but there was heartbeat so doctors denied her request).
 

cpwill

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I disagree.

Doctors should not neglect their patients.


We agree doctors should not neglect their patients. We disagree on whether this covers killing unborn children for the crime of being inconvenient.


They should be able carry out the very best medical procedures for their patients including pregnant woman.

Or, as they used to claim, by forcibly sterilizing them. Or, as they claim now, by cutting up the private parts of children because puberty is awkward.
 

minnie616

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We agree doctors should not neglect their patients. We disagree on whether this covers killing unborn children for the crime of being inconvenient.




Or, as they used to claim, by forcibly sterilizing them. Or, as they claim now, by cutting up the private parts of children because puberty is awkward.
You are misinformed.
Currently all the things you listed are choices.

No one is forced to be sterilized anymore, that point is moot.

Abortions are not forced in the United States either.

In Reproductive health a woman should be able to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family and her faith. The religious beliefs of others should not interfere.

Circumcision may be a religious choice or a choice the parents make for their newborn son.

The AMA says nothing about being circumcised because puberty is awkward.

In fact

From the Mayo Clinic:

The risks of not being circumcised, however, are not only rare, but avoidable with proper care of the penis.

Circumcision might not be an option if certain blood-clotting disorders are present. Also, circumcision might not be appropriate for premature babies who still require medical care in the hospital nursery or for babies born with abnormalities of the penis.

Circumcision doesn't affect fertility, nor is circumcision generally thought to enhance or detract from sexual pleasure for men or their partners.
 
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weaver2

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Good. Now they need to lay out a compelling case as to why fetuses should not be considered "babies" and why abortion should not be considered "murder". Since that's, ya know, central to the entire debate and all.
Fetuses are babies and abortion is murder is the belief of evangelicals and Catholic clergy. It is a religious belief and your belief is perfectly acceptable. No one is ever going to bother you about this belief until you start trying to make Congress pas a law that all citizens have to honor your religious beliefs whether their religion or their lack of religion believes in that or not.

Freedom of religion, guaranteed by the Constitution, means you are free to believe that fetuses are babies and abortion is murder but I am not bound by your religious beliefs.
 

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1. I'm am not required to believe or support any political dogma. It's politics, not a religion.

2. Wow, I truly hope that you do not actually feel that way about yourself. No one should feel that way.

3. I am solidly against abortion because it is murder, the ending of someone's life unjustly. The fact that other options, like adoption and orphanages, are not really explored by liberal politicians is truly troubling and seems to me to be a moral failure.
Abortion is not murder. Fact. Adoption is wrong, IMO, though what another woman does is not my business.
 

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We agree doctors should not neglect their patients. We disagree on whether this covers killing unborn children for the crime of being inconvenient.

Fortunately, the unborn cannot commit crimes :rolleyes: ...it's always odd when some people choose to impose their feelings and emotions on the unborn which is incapable of doing so. Like anthropomorphizing other species.

It is emotionally manipulative tho, of course you know that.

And since women have abortions out of need, and not convenience, I'd say there's no issue. Unless you are choosing to characterize everything in a person's life...health, job, responsibilities, education, commitments to others, etc as 'conveniences?' Are you? Are you reducing everything in a woman's life to 'conveniences?'
 

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Embryos and fetuses are not constitutional persons. The Constitution mandates a Census every decade of "all persons in the US." Women have been included in every Census. No embryo or fetus was ever included because there has to be an "actual Enumeration," not a projected count. If you can't directly see, hear, touch, or feel one, you can make a mistake. Indirect evidence is not good.

Not all women have regular periods and some missed periods are for other reasons.
Morning sickness only affects a third of pregnant women.
In a false pregnancy, when there is no embryo or fetus, a woman can have a missed period, morning sickness, bodily thickening, and feeling of fetal movement.
A pregnancy test cannot tell the difference between:
a healthy pregnancy
a molar pregnancy where there is embryonic and placental tissue but no embryo
an ectopic pregnancy, which can't come to term and always threatens a woman's life
the number of embryos
A sonogram can show one embryo instead of two or three
Some double embryos become a single one
And, when conjoined twins are born, there can be two functional heads, i.e., two persons for one body,
or one non-functional head and one functional head, i.e., one person for one body

No one could count embryos or fetuses with even a probable accuracy until about 30 years ago and it's still "projected."

So at the time of the 14th Amendment, that amendment's due process clause did in fact apply to women, who were persons, and did not apply to embryos or fetuses, who weren't.

An individual woman has rights to life, liberty, and property. At the time of the 14th Amendment, married women did not have the property right, etc., being under coverture, but females who were marriageable but unmarried were adults - and as daughters and widows could inherit and own property, make contracts, run businesses, etc.

John Locke made it clear when he first used the phrase "life, liberty, and property" that "liberty" included enjoyment of the body, its health, limbs, etc.

Abortion is safer than late pregnancy and childbirth and can prevent health problems.

'Nuf said.
 

cpwill

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Fortunately, the unborn cannot commit crimes :rolleyes: ...it's always odd when some people choose to impose their feelings and emotions on the unborn which is incapable of doing so. Like anthropomorphizing other species.


No - unborn children are definitely human. :)

It is emotionally manipulative tho, of course you know that.

It is accurate. That accurately describing the act and the loss of life is considered to be emotionally manipulative by those who wish to sustain this as a widespread procedure is.... Well, a bit telling.


And since women have abortions out of need, and not convenience,

VANISHINGLY few have abortion out of need, though, I would agree that in such cases where we are truly choosing between the life of the child or the life of the mother (or the life of the mother and the life of neither), abortion can be justified.


I'd say there's no issue. Unless you are choosing to characterize everything in a person's life...health, job, responsibilities, education, commitments to others, etc as 'conveniences?' Are you? Are you reducing everything in a woman's life to 'conveniences?'

Certainly those are not needs.
 

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I reckon that depends on the perspective of the human who's rights are being violated....the pregnant woman denied choice to slaughter baby or unborn baby being slaughtered.
 

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No - unborn children are definitely human. :)

Hence I specified 'other species' re: anthropomorphizing.

It is accurate. That accurately describing the act and the loss of life is considered to be emotionally manipulative by those who wish to sustain this as a widespread procedure is.... Well, a bit telling.

It's not accurate unless you agree that everything in your own life is a 'convenience.' Well, many things, like those I wrote and you didnt address. Is your job a convenience? Is your ability to put food on the table and pay rent/mortgage a "convenience?" Are your responsibilities and obligations to others "conveniences?" Is your health a "convenience?"


VANISHINGLY few have abortion out of need, though, I would agree that in such cases where we are truly choosing between the life of the child or the life of the mother (or the life of the mother and the life of neither), abortion can be justified.

Feel free to prove that (the bold). Abortions are painful and cost $$. Women dont have them for entertainment...they have them out of need. Feel free to prove otherwise.

Certainly those are not needs.

Perhaps in your life they're not. For most people, they are. Food on the table, paying the rent, holding yourself accountable to others. If that's not so in your life, of course you know best.
 

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THe unborn do not have rights and there is no baby in an abortion.
Of course there is. I know it helps 'people' like you to be able to dehumanize the baby you endorse slaughtering, but it doesnt change the facts. Even the scientific definition of fetus states quite clearly that it is an unborn baby of a specific species.
 

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Of course there is. I know it helps 'people' like you to be able to dehumanize the baby you endorse slaughtering, but it doesnt change the facts. Even the scientific definition of fetus states quite clearly that it is an unborn baby of a specific species.
"People" like me? Oh do tell! There is no baby to dehumanize or "slaughter." That's just emotionally based drivel. The scientific definition of a fetus is an offspring from 8 weeks gestation until birth. A fetus does not have rights nor is considered a person. Those are the facts!
 

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"People" like me? Oh do tell! There is no baby to dehumanize or "slaughter." That's just emotionally based drivel. The scientific definition of a fetus is an offspring from 8 weeks gestation until birth. A fetus does not have rights nor is considered a person. Those are the facts!
Of course there is. The unborn child is a baby in every circumstance except the one where you choose to endorse its slaughter. When most people find they are pregnant they celebrate the coming event, they are excited about the growing baby developing, they look forward to the baby, they care for and nurture the babies development, they prepare for the babies arrival. In the tragic event the baby is lost due to a miscarriage, they feel the loss, they mourn the loss.

Unless you support destroying the unborn baby. Then you dehumanize it so that your cheerful support of the butchering of unborn baby makes you less in human than your choices.

Those are just facts.
 

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Of course there is. The unborn child is a baby in every circumstance except the one where you choose to endorse its slaughter. When most people find they are pregnant they celebrate the coming event, they are excited about the growing baby developing, they look forward to the baby, they care for and nurture the babies development, they prepare for the babies arrival. In the tragic event the baby is lost due to a miscarriage, they feel the loss, they mourn the loss.

Unless you support destroying the unborn baby. Then you dehumanize it so that your cheerful support of the butchering of unborn baby makes you less in human than your choices.

Those are just facts.
Nothing but more emotional platitudes. How a woman reacts when pregnant is up to her. Some are happy about. Some are not. But your emotional appeals and transparent attack doesn't change the fact the unborn is notba baby until birth and that it still does not have rights or legal personhood.
 

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Of course there is. I know it helps 'people' like you to be able to dehumanize the baby you endorse slaughtering, but it doesnt change the facts. Even the scientific definition of fetus states quite clearly that it is an unborn baby of a specific species.
A fetus is an unborn , but NOT defined as as baby./infant.
A baby is a term of endearment.
A pet , a car, a boyfriend , a girlfriend etc. can all be refererred to as a baby.


In 2019 4 out 5 abortions in the United States occurred unter 9 weeks gestation while the unborn is still in embryo stage.

All together 92.7 percent occur during the first trimester.

The vast majority of those that take place after the first trimester are because something went wrong with pregnancy either affecting the health of the unborn or the woman’s health.
 
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VanceMack

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A fetus is an unborn , but NOT defined as as baby./infant.
A baby is a term of endearment.
A pet , a car, a boyfriend , a girlfriend etc. can all be refererred to as a baby.


In 2019 4 out 5 abortions in the United States occurred unter 9 weeks gestation while the unborn is still in embryo stage.

All together 92.7 percent occur during the first trimester.

The vast majority of those that take place after the first trimester are because something went wrong with pregnancy either affecting the health of the unborn or the woman’s health.
I know...you too are very intent on ignoring the fact that the babies you endorse the slaughter of are human.
 

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Nothing but more emotional platitudes. How a woman reacts when pregnant is up to her. Some are happy about. Some are not. But your emotional appeals and transparent attack doesn't change the fact the unborn is notba baby until birth and that it still does not have rights or legal personhood.
:ROFLMAO:

Its not emotional AT ALL. It is simply a statement of fact without the candycoating or dehumanizing you 'people' do to justify your cheerful support of the slaughter of 800,000 unborn babies a year in the name of convenience.
 

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I know...you too are very intent on ignoring the fact that the babies you endorse the slaughter of are human.
I know the unborn are human.
I think you forget that women are also human.

Most women want to become mothers and if they are going to become mothers they want to raise their children with care and love.

Becoming a parent should not be forced. Children should planned for and welcomed with lots of love and caring.

As a pro choice Christian mother of 4 grown children, I advocate that all people deserve the medical, economic, and educational resources necessary for healthy families and communities equipped to nurture children in peace and love.
 

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:ROFLMAO:

Its not emotional AT ALL. It is simply a statement of fact without the candycoating or dehumanizing you 'people' do to justify your cheerful support of the slaughter of 800,000 unborn babies a year in the name of convenience.
Sure it is. Unborn baby is an oxymoron as well as an emotionally charged term. But also irrelevant. If a woman wants an abortion for convenience, who cares? That's her business and no one else's. But her reasons is her own.
 

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Sure it is. Unborn baby is an oxymoron as well as an emotionally charged term. But also irrelevant. If a woman wants an abortion for convenience, who cares? That's her business and no one else's. But her reasons is her own.
Unborn baby is a factual description of the child deveopling in a mothers womb. We provide all manner of care for the healthy development of babies as they grow. SO no...its not an emotional response...its factual, just as it is factual that the decision to with abandon and in the name of nothing more than convenience to slaughter 800,000 of them a year in this country alone is inhumane.
 

Gordy327

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Unborn baby is a factual description of the child deveopling in a mothers womb. We provide all manner of care for the healthy development of babies as they grow. SO no...its not an emotional response...its factual, just as it is factual that the decision to with abandon and in the name of nothing more than convenience to slaughter 800,000 of them a year in this country alone is inhumane.
Unborn baby is a misnomer. Embryo/fetus is a more accurate, scientific description. Care is offered. But utilizing it is up to the woman in question. Whether you think abortion is inhumane is just an opinion, irrelevant, and emotional.
 
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