American Imperialism

[Scott]

These articles and videos are a good summary of what most non-Americans know and most Americans don't know.

http://www.thismodernworld.org/arc/1995/95-05-17-Guatemala.gif
GUATEMALA HUMAN RIGHTS
http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/history/2002/0413angola.htm
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/42a/127.html
http://www.namebase.org/scott.html

t r u t h o u t - Larry Everest | History of US and UK Intervention in Iraq
Major General Smedley Butler ***
A Timeline of CIA Atrocities
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html
http://michaelparenti.org/Imperialism101.html
The Empire and Ourselves, by Noam Chomsky
http://www.antipasministries.com/html/file0000133.htm
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/chomskyin1282.html
http://www.michaelparenti.org/yugoslavia.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zepezauer_Mark/Iran_Boomerang.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Asia/EastTimor_Q&A_Z.html


What Uncle Sam Really Wants
Smedley Butler: War is a Racket

The Flag of the Corporate States of America

War and Globalization - The Truth Behind September 11 - Google Video
The Oil Factor: Behind the War on Terror - Google Video
A must watch video : Capitalism Creates Poverty? : Dr. Michael Parenti: "Terrorism, Globalism and Conspiracy"
Iraq War - Google Video
THE TRUTH & LIES OF 9/11 - Google Video
The Chomsky Marr Interview 1996 - Google Video
What I've Learned About US Foreign Policy: The war against the Third World - Google Video
Secrets of the CIA - Google Video
Video - Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
9/11 American Scholars Symposium Panel Discussion :
9/11 Documentaries & Videos - David Ray Griffin - 911 and the American Empire
GlobalResearch.ca - Centre for Research on Globalization 22&articleId=4245

These two are the same video.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Newman's History of Oil.
Robert Newmans History of Oil - Google Video

More here.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/

If you enter stuff like "Death squads", or "Torture", in this search engine, you'll find a lot of interesting stuff.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/htdig/search.html

 

[Mr. X]

For crying out loud I clicked on your first link and it's a cartoon? I then clicked a few more and realized it was all downhill from the start.

 

[niftydrifty]

holy crap, Scott. I'm mean I lean far left on a number of issues myself, but to submit Tom Tomorrow (which I read also) as some kind of evidence is just ...

... uh, ... I can't say it, without being nominated for another asshat award.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

These articles and videos are a good summary of what most non-Americans know and most Americans don't know.

http://www.thismodernworld.org/arc/1995/95-05-17-Guatemala.gif
GUATEMALA HUMAN RIGHTS
The Angolan Civil War and US Foreign Policy - Empire? - Global Policy Forum
Still Hidden: A Full Record Of What the U.S. Did in Chile
The CIA in Indonesia, 1965-1967

t r u t h o u t - Larry Everest | History of US and UK Intervention in Iraq
Major General Smedley Butler ***
A Timeline of CIA Atrocities
Killing Hope page U.S. Military and CIA Interventions since World War II William Blum
Imperialism 101
The Empire and Ourselves, by Noam Chomsky
THE AMERICAN EMPIRE AND THE U.S. SYSTEM OF CLIENT STATES
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/chomskyin1282.html
Michael Parenti: The Rational Destruction of Yugoslavia
Iran excerpted from the book Boomerang How our covert wars have created enemies across the Middle East and brought terror to America. by Mark Zepezauer
US foreign policy East Timor Questions and Answers


What Uncle Sam Really Wants
Smedley Butler: War is a Racket

The Flag of the Corporate States of America

War and Globalization - The Truth Behind September 11 - Google Video
The Oil Factor: Behind the War on Terror - Google Video
A must watch video : Capitalism Creates Poverty? : Dr. Michael Parenti: "Terrorism, Globalism and Conspiracy"
Iraq War - Google Video
THE TRUTH & LIES OF 9/11 - Google Video
The Chomsky Marr Interview 1996 - Google Video
What I've Learned About US Foreign Policy: The war against the Third World - Google Video
Secrets of the CIA - Google Video
Video - Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
9/11 American Scholars Symposium Panel Discussion :
9/11 Documentaries & Videos - David Ray Griffin - 911 and the American Empire
GlobalResearch.ca - Centre for Research on Globalization 22&articleId=4245

These two are the same video.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Newman's History of Oil.
Robert Newmans History of Oil - Google Video

More here.
An alternative view to the mainstream media, Human rights; Social and economic justice; Foreign policy; Corporations; Media control, Travel in Africa, Asia and Latin America

If you enter stuff like "Death squads", or "Torture", in this search engine, you'll find a lot of interesting stuff.
ht://Dig WWW Search

Well atleast you picked the right forum, I always say you conspiracy theorists blend alot of fiction with a little fact, first you start out with our removal of Arbenz who was cozying up to the Soviets and implementing land reforms (IE confiscation and redistribution) of privately held lands, IE the first step of every Latin American tin pot populist/socialist tyrant from Castro to Chavez. Then I see at the bottom you have 9-11 conspiracy theories which is where I stopped.

Let me see if I can guess what's in between:

- Certainly you have the coup against Allende in there even though there is no evidence what so ever that the CIA aided the 1973 coup plotters. I'll wager to bet that you won't mention that Allende was ordered to step down by the Chilean deputy of Chambers (equivalent of the U.S. House of Reps) and the Chilean Supreme Court, in accordance with the resolutions levied against him for his numerous violations of the Chilean Constitution in order to in his own words: "obliterate the bourgeiouse state," "implement scientific Marxism," because democracy was a "tactical and temporary necessity."

- I'm sure you have Mossadeq in there who through a fraudulent referendum (in which he got a 99.9% yay vote) dissolved parliament and granted himself dictatorial control over Iran.

- Let's see I bet you have our support of the Contra freedom fighters against the genocidal and totalitarian Marxist Sandinista regime.

- You probably have something in there about the Iraq war being a war for oil even though the Iraqi populace has voted for their own government and their own Constitution which guaratees that Iraqi oil will always remain owned by the Iraqi people.

- I'm guessing you have bullshit about our support for AQ and OBL even though we never funded or armed either, because even though we did fund and arm segments of the Mujahadeen including the Lion of Panjshir, OBL was not among them.

Was that a good guess? Anything else you would like to add? What did I miss? If you're using "thirdworld traveller," then you are probably mentioning the bullshit allegations against Prescott Bush, and fraudulent connections to Fritz Thysmen who had actually been vocal against the Nazi's and landed himself in a concentration camp,

Arguing with links is bullshit especially when the links are bullshit.

 

[Karmashock]

what do they know that we don't?... propoganda... you must be so proud.

 

[Gardener]

36 links in one post. Wow. That must have worn out your little copy and paste fingers.

You have proven you are a good follower and can ditto other people's opinions. Now, show you are capable of original thought and analysis.

Otherwise, you are only engaging in tawdry propaganda through your sheep-like willingness to advance other people's agendas.

 

[Scott]

I'd learned about a lot of what those articles say long before I ever read anything about it just by living abroad and talking to people. That's why I trust this website An alternative view to the mainstream media, Human rights; Social and economic justice; Foreign policy; Corporations; Media control, Travel in Africa, Asia and Latin America . The articles are consistent with what people from those countries say.

Well atleast you picked the right forum, I always say you conspiracy theorists blend alot of fiction with a little fact, first you start out with our removal of Arbenz who was cozying up to the Soviets and implementing land reforms (IE confiscation and redistribution) of privately held lands, IE the first step of every Latin American tin pot populist/socialist tyrant from Castro to Chavez.

I guess if we weren't actually there ourselves to see what was happening, we can't be sure about anything.
This article is consistent with what I hear from Latin Americans though.
Propaganda System Number One From Diem and Arbenz to Milosevic by Edward S. Herman
(excerpt)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another remarkable case of propaganda service occurred as the United States destabilized Guatemala's democratic government in the years 1950-1953 and then removed it by means of a U.S.-organized "contra" invasion in 1954. U.S. hostility began when this government passed a law in 1947 allowing the organization of unions, and active destabilization followed and accelerated upon its attempt to engage in moderate land reforms, partly at the expense of the United Fruit Company. From 1947 the search was on for "Communists" to explain the reformist policies and to rationalize the hostile intervention. The U.S. mainstream media became completely hysterical over this Red Threat from 1950 onward, very worried that Arbenz would not allow elections to take place in 1951-this same media had not been bothered by the Ubico dictatorship, 1931-44, and was entirely unconcerned with the absence of democracy from 1954 onward-and featured a stream of alarming reports on Red influence in that country and an alleged "reign of terror."
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American companies such as "United Fruit" put puppet governments in third world countries which will let them acquire plantations and mines which they couldn't acquire if the government of the country represented the people. Anytime the people from those countries try to get back control of the governments and the country's resources the US press screams "Communists".

Here are some articles from my list above that explain what happens.
THE AMERICAN EMPIRE AND THE U.S. SYSTEM OF CLIENT STATES
A Timeline of CIA Atrocities

- Certainly you have the coup against Allende in there even though there is no evidence what so ever that the CIA aided the 1973 coup plotters. I'll wager to bet that you won't mention that Allende was ordered to step down by the Chilean deputy of Chambers (equivalent of the U.S. House of Republicans) and the Chilean Supreme Court, in accordance with the resolutions levied against him for his numerous violations of the Chilean Constitution in order to in his own words: "obliterate the bourgeiouse state," "implement scientific Marxism," because democracy was a "tactical and temporary necessity."

I've spoken to Chileans about this. It was mainly about the copper mines. US compaines had gotten hold of the mines and Allende's government nationalized them. According to Chileans US companies also owned a lot of plantations in Chile which were also nationalized by the allende government. No Chileans ever mentioned what you said to me about being ordered to step down.

- I'm sure you have Mossadeq in there who through a fraudulent referendum (in which he got a 99.9% yay vote) dissolved parliament and granted himself dictatorial control over Iran.

I've never heard anything aout this. Why don't you post something about it.
All the Iranians I've spoken to say the CIA planned the whole thing because they wanted to get control of Iranian oil that they'd lost.
This article is consistent with what I've heard from Iranians.
The Subversion of Undesirable Governments excerpted from the book Intervention and Revolution The United States in the Third World

No Iranian I ever talked to mentioned what you said about the parliament.

Let's see I bet you have our support of the Contra freedom fighters against the genocidal and totalitarian Marxist Sandinista regime.

Again, this article is consistent with what Latin Americans tell me.
President Ronald Reagan and Nicaragua excerpted from the book Lying for Empire How to Commit War Crimes With A Straight Face by David Model

You probably have something in there about the Iraq war being a war for oil even though the Iraqi populace has voted for their own government and their own Constitution which guaratees that Iraqi oil will always remain owned by the Iraqi people.

I think that's all a front to appease the American people. What really happens will probably be a lot different.
ZNet |Iraq | The Election In Iraq:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Demonstration_elections
The Afghan, El Salvador, and Iraq Elections U.S. managed elections, with the threat of violence, are called "democratic" by Edward S. Herman
(excerpt)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Afghan election has its own special features, as does the prospective January 2005 election in Iraq, but they both have basic public-relations and demonstration-for-the-home-market characteristics and neither can properly be called "free elections." The mainstream media have openly acknowledged that the timing of both has been geared to the needs of the Bush election campaign, neither being postponable for reasons of the detrimental effect on that campaign, as each election will demonstrate democracy in action and "liberation" of the formerly oppressed people. The fact that the United States is able to fix the timing of these elections to meet the political demands of its leaders doesn't strike the media as compromising or suggestive of deeper limits to the meaning of these exercises.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't go after Saddam because of his atrocities.
Rogue States
(excerpt)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since then, Iraq has displaced Iran and Libya as the leading "rogue state." Others have never entered the ranks. Perhaps the most relevant case is Indonesia, which shifted from enemy to friend when General Suharto took power in 1965, presiding over an enormous slaughter that elicited great satisfaction in the West. Since then Suharto has been "our kind of guy," as the Clinton administration described him, while carrying out murderous aggression and endless atrocities against his own people; killing 10,000 Indonesians just in the 1980s, according to the personal testimony of "our guy," who wrote that "the corpses were left lying around as a form of shock therapy." In December 1975 the UN Security Council unanimously ordered Indonesia to withdraw its invading forces from East Timor "without delay" and called upon "all States to respect the territorial integrity of East Timor as well as the inalienable right of its people to self-determination." The U.S. responded by (secretly) increasing shipments of arms to the aggressors; Carter accelerated the arms flow once again as the attack reached near-genocidal levels in 1978. In his memoirs, UN Ambassador Daniel Patrick Moynihan takes pride in his success in rendering the UN "utterly ineffective in whatever measures it undertook," following the instructions of the State Department, which "wished things to turn out as they did and worked to bring this about." The U.S. also happily accepts the robbery of East Timor’s oil (with participation of a U.S. company), in violation of any reasonable interpretation of international agreements.

The analogy to Iraq/Kuwait is close, though there are differences: to mention only the most obvious, U.S.-sponsored atrocities in East Timor were vastly beyond anything attributed to Saddam Hussein in Kuwait.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I lived in Mexico City for four years in the eighties. I never went further south than Mexico but I talked to a lot of Central and South Americans. I learned about how the US instals puppet governments in those countries and those governments let US companies exploit the countries. I used to read about it in Spanish too. I never found anything about it in English until the late nineties when I discovered Noam Chomsky's books. I've been living in Madrid since 93; all of the English-Language bookstores here have his books.
This book explained a lot of what I used to hear from Latin Americans.
Manufacturing Consent

I found websites that had works in English that were consistent with what I hear from people from countries in Africa, Asia and Latin America.
These are two of the best ones.
Welcome To ZNet
An alternative view to the mainstream media, Human rights; Social and economic justice; Foreign policy; Corporations; Media control, Travel in Africa, Asia and Latin America

What those links I posted say reflects reality. The US exploits the third world and lies about it to the American people.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I'd learned about a lot of what those articles say long before I ever read anything about it just by living abroad and talking to people. That's why I trust this website An alternative view to the mainstream media, Human rights; Social and economic justice; Foreign policy; Corporations; Media control, Travel in Africa, Asia and Latin America . The articles are consistent with what people from those countries say.

Ya everyone has the right to be wrong.

I guess if we weren't actually there ourselves to see what was happening, we can't be sure about anything.

Umm ya we can it's called a history book, you see unlike in third world shitholes whose governments blame every conveviable problem on the U.S. in order to divert attention from their own corrupt and inept regimes, revisionist history is frowned upon in the U.S..

This article is consistent with what I hear from Latin Americans though.
Propaganda System Number One From Diem and Arbenz to Milosevic by Edward S. Herman
(excerpt)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another remarkable case of propaganda service occurred as the United States destabilized Guatemala's democratic government in the years 1950-1953 and then removed it by means of a U.S.-organized "contra" invasion in 1954. U.S. hostility began when this government passed a law in 1947 allowing the organization of unions, and active destabilization followed and accelerated upon its attempt to engage in moderate land reforms, partly at the expense of the United Fruit Company. From 1947 the search was on for "Communists" to explain the reformist policies and to rationalize the hostile intervention. The U.S. mainstream media became completely hysterical over this Red Threat from 1950 onward, very worried that Arbenz would not allow elections to take place in 1951-this same media had not been bothered by the Ubico dictatorship, 1931-44, and was entirely unconcerned with the absence of democracy from 1954 onward-and featured a stream of alarming reports on Red influence in that country and an alleged "reign of terror."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

American companies such as "United Fruit" put puppet governments in third world countries which will let them acquire plantations and mines which they couldn't acquire if the government of the country represented the people. Anytime the people from those countries try to get back control of the governments and the country's resources the US press screams "Communists".

Here are some articles from my list above that explain what happens.
THE AMERICAN EMPIRE AND THE U.S. SYSTEM OF CLIENT STATES
A Timeline of CIA Atrocities

lol, Arbenz was not engaging in "moderate land reforms," he was engaging in the confiscation of privately held lands and the redistribution of said lands in line with the Chinese and Soviet models.

I've spoken to Chileans about this. It was mainly about the copper mines. US compaines had gotten hold of the mines and Allende's government nationalized them. According to Chileans US companies also owned a lot of plantations in Chile which were also nationalized by the allende government. No Chileans ever mentioned what you said to me about being ordered to step down.

Like I said everyone has a right to be wrong. <<<SEE BELOW>>>

I've never heard anything aout this. Why don't you post something about it.
All the Iranians I've spoken to say the CIA planned the whole thing because they wanted to get control of Iranian oil that they'd lost.
This article is consistent with what I've heard from Iranians.
The Subversion of Undesirable Governments excerpted from the book Intervention and Revolution The United States in the Third World

No Iranian I ever talked to mentioned what you said about the parliament.

And I wonder why.

Mossadeq held a rigged referendum to dissolve parliament with a 99.9% yay vote and then extended his "emergency," dictatorial powers.

History of Iran: A short account of 1953 Coup

[/quote]

Again, this article is consistent with what Latin Americans tell me.
President Ronald Reagan and Nicaragua excerpted from the book Lying for Empire How to Commit War Crimes With A Straight Face by David Model

Again this article is complete crap, the Contras were formed by the Mosquito people who the Sandinistas had committed genocide upon:

Remembering Sandinista Genocide

I think that's all a front to appease the American people. What really happens will probably be a lot different.

The Iraqi Constitution voted for by the Iraqi's is an American front to appease the American people?

From the Iraqi Constitution:

Article 109: First: The federal government with the producing governorates and regional governments shall undertake the management of oil and gas extracted from current fields provided that it distributes oil and gas revenues in a fair manner in

proportion to the population distribution in all parts of the country with a set allotment for a set time for the damaged regions that were unjustly deprived by the former regime and the regions that were damaged later on, and in a way that assures balanced development in different areas of the country, and this will be regulated by law.

Second: The federal government with the producing regional and governorate governments shall together formulate the necessary strategic policies to develop the oil and gas wealth in a way that achieves the highest benefit to the Iraqi people using the most advanced techniques of the market principles and encourages investment. ​

http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/file...constitution_en.pdf/iraqi_constitution_en.pdf​

ZNet |Iraq | The Election In Iraq:
Demonstration elections - SourceWatch
The Afghan, El Salvador, and Iraq Elections U.S. managed elections, with the threat of violence, are called "democratic" by Edward S. Herman
(excerpt)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Afghan election has its own special features, as does the prospective January 2005 election in Iraq, but they both have basic public-relations and demonstration-for-the-home-market characteristics and neither can properly be called "free elections." The mainstream media have openly acknowledged that the timing of both has been geared to the needs of the Bush election campaign, neither being postponable for reasons of the detrimental effect on that campaign, as each election will demonstrate democracy in action and "liberation" of the formerly oppressed people. The fact that the United States is able to fix the timing of these elections to meet the political demands of its leaders doesn't strike the media as compromising or suggestive of deeper limits to the meaning of these exercises.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Iraqi and Afghanistan elections were deemed to be free and fair by the U.N., not exactly the bastion of pro-Americanism. Furthermore; in the Iraqi elections more people voted as a % of the population than in our own 2000 Presidential elections. Not only that but if these were not free and fair elections as your article claims do you really think we would have allowed parties; such as, those controlled by al-Sadr to win seats in Parliament?

We didn't go after Saddam because of his atrocities.
Rogue States
(excerpt)

LOL so let me get this straight when we intervene for Iraq invading Kuwait we're in the wrong and when we don't intervene for Indonesia invading East Timor we're also in the wrong? Is that the thrust of this bullshit argument?
[/quote]

I lived in Mexico City for four years in the eighties. I never went further south than Mexico but I talked to a lot of Central and South Americans. I learned about how the US instals puppet governments in those countries and those governments let US companies exploit the countries. I used to read about it in Spanish too. I never found anything about it in English until the late nineties when I discovered Noam Chomsky's books. I've been living in Madrid since 93; all of the English-Language bookstores here have his books.

Noam Chomsky is a POS he is an apologist for the genocide of Pol Pot, and he actively supported the tyrannical and brutal North Vietnamese regime even while the U.S. was at war with them he made a cheerleading speech in Hanoi.

This book explained a lot of what I used to hear from Latin Americans.
Manufacturing Consent

I found websites that had works in English that were consistent with what I hear from people from countries in Africa, Asia and Latin America.
These are two of the best ones.
Welcome To ZNet
An alternative view to the mainstream media, Human rights; Social and economic justice; Foreign policy; Corporations; Media control, Travel in Africa, Asia and Latin America

What those links I posted say reflects reality. The US exploits the third world and lies about it to the American people.

Why is it that none of your sources mention the fact that these leftist leaders were attempting to install totalitarian dictatorships?
​

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The Chamber of Deputies Resolution against Allende:

The Resolution
Considering:
1. That for the Rule of Law to exist, public authorities must carry out their activities and discharge their duties within the framework of the Constitution and the laws of the land, respecting fully the principle of reciprocal independence to which they are bound, and that all inhabitants of the country must be allowed to enjoy the guarantees and fundamental rights assured them by the Constitution;

2. That the legitimacy of the Chilean State lies with the people who, over the years, have invested in this legitimacy with the underlying consensus of their coexistence, and that an assault on this legitimacy not only destroys the cultural and political heritage of our Nation, but also denies, in practice, all possibility of democratic life;

3. That the values and principles expressed in the Constitution, according to article 2, indicate that sovereignty resides essentially in the Nation, and that authorities may not exercise more powers than those delegated to them by the Nation; and, in article 3, it is deduced that any government that arrogates to itself rights not delegated to it by the people commits sedition;

4. That the current President of the Republic was elected by the full Congress, in accordance with a statute of democratic guarantees incorporated in the Constitution for the very purpose of assuring that the actions of his administration would be subject to the principles and norms of the Rule of Law that he solemnly agreed to respect;

5. That it is a fact that the current government of the Republic, from the beginning, has sought to conquer absolute power with the obvious purpose of subjecting all citizens to the strictest political and economic control by the state and, in this manner, fulfilling the goal of establishing a totalitarian system: the absolute opposite of the representative democracy established by the Constitution;

6. That to achieve this end, the administration has committed not isolated violations of the Constitution and the laws of the land, rather it has made such violations a permanent system of conduct, to such an extreme that it systematically ignores and breaches the proper role of the other branches of government, habitually violating the Constitutional guarantees of all citizens of the Republic, and allowing and supporting the creation of illegitimate parallel powers that constitute an extremely grave danger to the Nation, by all of which it has destroyed essential elements of institutional legitimacy and the Rule of Law;

7. That the administration has committed the following assaults on the proper role of the National Congress, seat of legislative power:
a) It has usurped Congress’s principle role of legislation through the adoption of various measures of great importance to the country’s social and economic life that are unquestionably matters of legislation through special decrees enacted in an abuse of power, or through simple "administrative resolutions" using legal loopholes. It is noteworthy that all of this has been done with the deliberate and confessed purpose of substituting the country’s institutional structures, as conceived by current legislation, with absolute executive authority and the total elimination of legislative authority;

b) It has consistently mocked the National Congress’s oversight role by effectively removing its power to formally accuse Ministers of State who violate the Constitution or laws of the land, or who commit other offenses specified by the Constitution, and;

c) Lastly, what is most extraordinarily grave, it has utterly swept aside the exalted role of Congress as a duly constituted power by refusing to enact the Constitutional reform of three areas of the economy that were approved in strict compliance with the norms established by the Constitution.

8. That it has committed the following assaults on the judicial branch:
a) With the goal of undermining the authority of the courts and compromising their independence, it has led an infamous campaign of libel and slander against the Supreme Court, and it has sanctioned very serious attacks against judges and their authority;

b) It has made a mockery of justice in cases of delinquents belonging to political parties or groups affiliated with or close to the administration, either through the abusive use of pardons or deliberate noncompliance with detention orders;

c) It has violated express laws and utterly disregarded the principle of separation of powers by not carrying out sentences and judicial resolutions that contravene its objectives and, when so accused by the Supreme Court, the President of the Republic has gone to the unheard of extreme of arrogating to himself a right to judge the merit of judicial sentences and to determine when they are to be complied with;

9. That, as concerns the General Comptroller’s Office—an independent institution essential to administrative legitimacy—the administration has systematically violated decrees and activities that point to the illegality of the actions of the Executive Branch or of entities dependent on it;

10. That among the administration’s constant assaults on the guarantees and fundamental rights established in the Constitution, the following stand out:

a) It has violated the principle of equality before the law through sectarian and hateful discrimination in the protection authorities are required to give to the life, rights, and property of all inhabitants, through activities related to food and subsistence, as well as numerous other instances. It is to note that the President of the Republic himself has made these discriminations part of the normal course of his government by proclaiming from the beginning that he does not consider himself the president of all Chileans;

b) It has grievously attacked freedom of speech, applying all manner of economic pressure against those media organizations that are not unconditional supporters of the government, illegally closing newspapers and radio networks; imposing illegal shackles on the latter; unconstitutionally jailing opposition journalists; resorting to cunning maneuvers to acquire a monopoly on newsprint; and openly violating the legal mandates to which the National Television Network is subject by handing over the post of executive director to a public official not named by the Senate, as is required by law, and by turning the network into an instrument for partisan propaganda and defamation of political adversaries;

c) It has violated the principle of university autonomy and the constitutionally recognized right of universities to establish and maintain television networks, by encouraging the takeover of the University of Chile’s Channel 9, by assaulting that university’s new Channel 6 through violence and illegal detentions, and by obstructing the expansion to the provinces of the channel owned by Catholic University of Chile;

d) It has obstructed, impeded, and sometimes violently suppressed citizens who do not favor the regime in the exercise of their right to freedom of association. Meanwhile, it has constantly allowed groups—frequently armed—to gather and take over streets and highways, in disregard of pertinent regulation, in order to intimidate the populace;

e) It has attacked educational freedom by illegally and surreptitiously implementing the so-called Decree of the Democratization of Learning, an educational plan whose goal is Marxist indoctrination;

f) It has systematically violated the constitutional guarantee of property rights by allowing and supporting more than 1,500 illegal "takings" of farms, and by encouraging the "taking" of hundreds of industrial and commercial establishments in order to later seize them or illegally place them in receivership and thereby, through looting, establish state control over the economy; this has been one of the determining causes of the unprecedented decline in production, the scarcity of goods, the black market and suffocating rise in the cost of living, the bankruptcy of the national treasury, and generally of the economic crisis that is sweeping the country and threatening basic household welfare, and very seriously compromising national security;

g) It has made frequent politically motivated and illegal arrests, in addition to those already mentioned of journalists, and it has tolerated the whipping and torture of the victims;

h) It has ignored the rights of workers and their unions, subjecting them, as in the cases of El Teniente [one of the largest copper mines] and the transportation union, to illegal means of repression;

i) It has broken its commitment to make amends to workers who have been unjustly persecuted, such as those from Sumar, Helvetia, Banco Central, El Teniente and Chuquicamata; it has followed an arbitrary policy in the turning over of state-owned farms to peasants, expressly contravening the Agrarian Reform Law; it has denied workers meaningful participation, as guaranteed them by the Constitution; it has given rise to the end to union freedom by setting up parallel political organizations of workers.

j) It has gravely breached the constitutional guarantee to freely leave the country, establishing requirements to do so not covered by any law.

11. That it powerfully contributes to the breakdown of the Rule of Law by providing government protection and encouragement of the creation and maintenance of a number of organizations which are subversive [to the constitutional order] in the exercise of authority granted to them by neither the Constitution nor the laws of the land, in open violation of article 10, number 16 of the Constitution. These include community commandos, peasant councils, vigilance committees, the JAP, etc.; all designed to create a so-called "popular authority" with the goal of replacing legitimately elected authority and establishing the foundation of a totalitarian dictatorship. These facts have been publicly acknowledged by the President of the Republic in his last State of the Nation address and by all government media and strategists;

<<<CONTINUED BELOW>>>

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

<<<CONTINUED>>>

12. That especially serious is the breakdown of the Rule of Law by means of the creation and development of government-protected armed groups which, in addition to threatening citizens’ security and rights as well as domestic peace, are headed towards a confrontation with the Armed Forces. Just as serious is that the police are prevented from carrying out their most important responsibilities when dealing with criminal riots perpetrated by violent groups devoted to the government. Given the extreme gravity, one cannot be silent before the public and notorious attempts to use the Armed and Police Forces for partisan ends, destroy their institutional hierarchy, and politically infiltrate their ranks;

13. That the creation of a new ministry, with the participation of high-level officials of the Armed and Police Forces, was characterized by the President of the Republic to be "of national security" and its mandate "the establishment of political order" and "the establishment of economic order," and that such a mandate can only be conceived within the context of full restoration and validation of the legal and constitutional norms that make up the institutional framework of the Republic;

14. That the Armed and Police Forces are and must be, by their very nature, a guarantee for all Chileans and not just for one sector of the Nation or for a political coalition. Consequently, the government cannot use their backing to cover up a specific minority partisan policy. Rather their presence must be directed toward the full restoration of constitutional rule and of the rule of the laws of democratic coexistence, which is indispensable to guaranteeing Chile’s institutional stability, civil peace, security, and development;

15. Lastly, exercising the role attributed to it by Article 39 of the Constitution,
The Chamber of Deputies agrees:

First: To present the President of the Republic, Ministers of State, and members of the Armed and Police Forces with the grave breakdown of the legal and constitutional order of the Republic, the facts and circumstances of which are detailed in sections 5 to 12 above;

Second: To likewise point out that by virtue of their responsibilities, their pledge of allegiance to the Constitution and to the laws they have served, and in the case of the ministers, by virtue of the nature of the institutions of which they are high-ranking officials and of Him whose name they invoked upon taking office, it is their duty to put an immediate end to all situations herein referred to that breach the Constitution and the laws of the land with the goal of redirecting government activity toward the path of Law and ensuring the constitutional order of our Nation and the essential underpinnings of democratic coexistence among Chileans;

Third: To declare that if so done, the presence of those ministers in the government would render a valuable service to the Republic. To the contrary, they would gravely compromise the national and professional character of the Armed and Police Forces, openly infringing article 22 of the Constitution and seriously damaging the prestige of their institutions; and

Fourth: To communicate this agreement to His Excellency the President of the Republic, and to the Ministers of Economy, National Defense, Public Works and Transportation, and Land and Colonization.

Declaration of Breakdown of Chile's Democracy

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I can't find the whole resolution by the Chilean Supreme Court but here's an article which mentions it:

Allende’s transparent lust for power was well recognized in Chile by the time of the 1973 coup. On August 23, 1973 the Chamber of Deputies, the equivalent of our House of Representatives, adopted a resolution charging: “It is a fact that the present Government of the Republic [the Allende administration], from its inception, has been bent on conquering total power, with the evident purpose of submitting all individuals to the strictest economic and political control by the State, thus achieving the establishment of a totalitarian system, absolutely contrary to the representative democratic system prescribed by the Constitution.”

Earlier that month, on August 8th, the General Council of Chile’s Bar Association issued a declaration charging that Allende’s egregious violations of the Constitution threatened “collapse of the rule of law,” and asserting that the “obvious fracturing of our legal structure can no longer be tolerated.” Still earlier, on May 26, 1973, Chile’s Supreme Court issued a unanimous resolution denouncing the Allende regime’s “disruption of the legality of the nation” by its failure to uphold judicial decisions.

Pinochet dead. Left celebrates, wiser heads remember | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog

And don't take their word for just listen to what Allende had to say about Democracy:

"The answer is the proletariat. If it wasn't so I wouldn't be here [...] As for the bourgeois state, at the present moment, we are seeking to overcome it. To overthrow it. [...] Our objective is total, scientific, Marxist socialism" — In an interview with French Journalist Regis Debray in 1970.

(Attributed) "I am not the president of all the Chileans. I am not a hypocrite that says so." — At a public rally, quoted by all Chilean newspapers, January 17, 1971. President Allende sent a public letter to El Mercurio newspaper to deny this alleged statement.

After all, Allende himself had confided to Regis Debray “that his differences with apostles of violence like Guevara were only ‘tactical,’ plus his admission that he was observing legality ‘for the time being,’ and his assertion that he had agreed to the Statute of Democratic Guarantees as a ‘tactical necessity’.” (Sigmund, p. 140). And his own Socialist Party, at its Congress in January 1971, had stated that “the special conditions under which Popular Unity came to power oblige it to observe the limits of a bourgeois state for now” and had warned its members to prepare for “the decisive confrontation with the bourgeoisie and imperialism.” (Sigmund, footnote 7/12)

The Allende myth - Political Debate Forum : US & World Politics

 

[Mr. X]

I hate myself for doing this, but I'm going to reply. While it makes me feel all dirty, and I'm sure God is killing a kitten because of this, I just can't help it.

I'd learned about a lot of what those articles say long before I ever read anything about it just by living abroad and talking to people. That's why I trust this website An alternative view to the mainstream media, Human rights; Social and economic justice; Foreign policy; Corporations; Media control, Travel in Africa, Asia and Latin America . The articles are consistent with what people from those countries say.

Gosh, I've lived abroad as well and my experience has been a bit different. Could it possibly be that opinion is not a monolithic entity that can be quoted? What do American's think on any issue? My god, we might find out that entire countries aren't of a single mindset! Of course, that doesn't fit with all of your links.

I guess if we weren't actually there ourselves to see what was happening, we can't be sure about anything.

I've spoken to Chileans about this. It was mainly about the copper mines. US compaines had gotten hold of the mines and Allende's government nationalized them. According to Chileans US companies also owned a lot of plantations in Chile which were also nationalized by the allende government. No Chileans ever mentioned what you said to me about being ordered to step down.

Sorry, I had to edit some of that out. You take an odd position about the fact that since we weren't physically present we can't have an opinion. Then you give an opinion. You do see a sort of discontinuity there, right?

Right, you've spoken to Chileans about this. Do you think that there might be Chileans that think differently, or is that just completely out of the question for you? I'm not even addressing what these Chileans said or didn't say, because I don't feel like expending the energy when you just posted a bunch of other people's opinions. Tell the original authors of your copying and pasting to come here and I'll take them at least a little more seriously because they demonstrate that they can think on their own.

I've never heard anything aout this. Why don't you post something about it.
All the Iranians I've spoken to say the CIA planned the whole thing because they wanted to get control of Iranian oil that they'd lost.
This article is consistent with what I've heard from Iranians.
The Subversion of Undesirable Governments excerpted from the book Intervention and Revolution The United States in the Third World

Not only are you a friend of the Chileans but the Iranians as well. I'm sure they're delighted to have you speaking on all of their behalf. Funny thing is all the Seahawks fans I've spoken to have said that the Superbowl refs were biased for the Steelers. All the West Ham fans I've spoken to have blamed... Okay, they don't have anyone to blame. But I'm sure you could be their spokesman seeing to your other work in Chile and Iran.

No Iranian I ever talked to mentioned what you said about the parliament.


Again, this article is consistent with what Latin Americans tell me.
President Ronald Reagan and Nicaragua excerpted from the book Lying for Empire How to Commit War Crimes With A Straight Face by David Model

My God, please tell me you work for the UN with all of your international contacts.

What those links I posted say reflects reality. The US exploits the third world and lies about it to the American people.

Sorry, had to edit again. All these links certainly prove that, without you even having to argue the point. Perhaps I should post a bunch of links about how the U.S. never went to the moon.

Edit: Aw, ****, you beat me to it.

 

[Gardener]

Perhaps I should post a bunch of links about how the U.S. never went to the moon.

But Mr X. There are no Chileans or Iranians on the moon. Not only that, but No Chilians or Iranians have ever been on the moon. Obviously, if there are no Chilians or Iranians on the moon, then nobody was there to validate our opinion that we went there. If nobody was there to validate the fact that we were there, ourselves, how could we have possibly landed?

It's all perfectly logical, really.



But back to the subject at hand........


When I was in college,I had a friend from Togo. He had the biggest, most booming voice I have ever heard. Really quite melifluous, it was. Now, even though I haven't seen him in 30 years, I can still hear that wonderful voice of his calling out to me in that almost operatic baritone, and I know for a fact he would say "Imperialism? Ah, you knave! If it is this imperialism that gave me the scholorship to study in your country then bring me more imperialism!".


So, there you have it. Togo has now checked in on the subject. I know it's a small country and all, but it's a start.

Oh, wait a minute,I just realized -- I spoke to a young fellow from Indonesia yesterday. He is Chinese by ethnicity, but was born and raised in Borneo. I won't go into detail, but he is REALLY glad to be here.

So there you have it. One small country and one big one saying "bring me that imperialism". I think that cancels out Chile and Iran, don't you think?

 

[Scott]

I guess if we weren't actually there ourselves to see what was happening, we can't be sure about anything.

Umm ya we can it's called a history book, you see unlike in third world shitholes whose governments blame every conveviable problem on the U.S. in order to divert attention from their own corrupt and inept regimes, revisionist history is frowned upon in the U.S..

Mainstream American history books are the worst place to get information.

Here are some good books I've read. I haven't been in the US since 95. Would these books be in mainstream stores such as "Walden Books" now?
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Amazon.com: A People's History of the United States: 1492-Present (Perennial Classics): Books: Howard Zinn

Here are some excerpts from it.
Peoples History Zinn
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Amazon.com: Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your History Textbook Got Wrong: Books: James W. Loewen

http://www.uvm.edu/~jloewen/
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Amazon.com: Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II-Updated Through 2003: Books: William Blum

Here are some excerpts from it.
www.killinghope.org
Killing Hope page U.S. Military and CIA Interventions since World War II William Blum

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Amazon.com: Washington Connection and Third World Fascism (Political Economy of Human Rights): Books: Noam Chomsky,Edward S. Herman

Here are some excerpts from it.
Washington Connection and Third World Fascism Chomsky and Herman
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http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

Here's something about the Sandanista/contra issue.
On the Contras, Noam Chomsky debates with John Silber


What do you think of what this marine said?
http://www.theunjustmedia.com/major_general_smedley_butler.htm
Smedley Butler: War is a Racket

Here's another marine.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2567
(excerpt)
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While my military experience is what first made me skeptical about our government’s motives in the developing world, it wasn’t until I went to college and began reading hundreds of books and thousands of articles that I was able to truly grasp the profundity of our leadership’s contempt for the freedoms they claim to protect. As a rule, we have worked hard to prevent the rise of democracy in the developing world, all the while claiming legitimacy as "the world’s police force" because of our so-called "democratic" values. The hypocrisy is astounding. When one investigates our complicity in death squads, torture, massacres, rape, and mass destruction, one realizes that freedom often threatens the current power structure in this country.
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I'll tell you why I believe the articles and books and why I think the articles you post are attempts at damage-control by the government.

I worked at an adult English school in Mexico City for almost four years in the eighties. I was the only native speaker at the branch so thay gave me mostly advanced classes so we had lots of converstions. During conversation classes people who had traveled and lived south of Mexico explained the same things to me again and again. The US installs puppet governments in third world countries and those governments let US companies do what is described in the articles and books I've posted.
I've been doing the same thing in Madrid since 93. It's the same story here except I hear about even more countries.

Everything you posted is very inconsistent with what I've been hearing from non-Americans for almost twenty years. I know what the US government does and I know what attempts at damage-control by the US government look like.
I guess you know what I'm thinking.
Opposing Digits - Health & Awareness Community :: View topic - Rules of Disinformation

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Mainstream American history books are the worst place to get information.

No Noam Chomsky and his ilk are the worst place to get information Chomsky was a Pol Pot holocaust denier and was a supporter of the North Vietnamese, he is a communist propagandist and his claims that he is a socialist anarchist are a lie which is proven by the fact that he has supported many a totalitarian government. Chomsky is a linguist IE a man who has devoted his life to twisting language, he's a skilled propagandist, nothing more. I have proven time and time again that your sources were crap and created by obvious revisionist historians with a decidedly anti-American anti-Western agenda. I really don't care what books you've read I am a political scientist/international relations major who has studied all of these things in depth, only unlike you I have read books without agendas. What's really funny about all of this is that most of these nations are today firmly Democratic. Infact the only one that is not (Iran) is the one which we failed to adequately support the pro-American head of state, this resulted in the toppeling of a Constitutional Monarchy collapsing and one that had the most liberal Constitution in the Middle East and actually granted equal suffrage to women, not a common thing for a Muslim majority state. Today even Indonesia is the most progressive Muslim majority nation in the world.

Bottom line:

Mossadeq dissolved Parliament and declared himself dictator through a rigged referendum in which he got 99.9% of the vote in his favor.

Allende was setting up a totalitarian Marxist state as is proven by the resolutions of the Chilean Chamber of Deputies and Supreme Court.

Arbenz was implementing Castro style land reformS and cozying up to the Soviets.

And finally the Sandinista regime was a genocidal and brutal totalitarian police state.

 

[Scott]

I really don't care what books you've read I am a political scientist/international relations major who has studied all of these things in depth, only unlike you I have read books without agendas.

I don't think you believe the points you're arguing yourself.

You seem to be using rule #9 of this list.
Opposing Digits - Health & Awareness Community :: View topic - Rules of Disinformation
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9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
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Tell me what you think of what Smedley Butler said?
Major General Smedley Butler
Smedley Butler: War is a Racket

What do you think of what this marine said?
ZNet |Foreign Policy | Why I oppose the US War On Terror: An Ex Marine Speaks out

The fact that the US installs puppet governments in third world countries which then let them exploit the countries is just basic knowledge outside of the US. It just part of the basics. The only place where it isn't well-known is inside the US where information is tightly controlled. Now with the internet Americans can finally read objective information.
Here in Madrid where I live there's nothing more amusing than a group of Americans talking about politics.

Here's some more good stuff. This guy knows what he's talking about.
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/chossudovsky/warpropaganda.htm
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/chossudovsky/fabricatingenemy.htm

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I don't think you believe the points you're arguing yourself.

You seem to be using rule #9 of this list.
Opposing Digits - Health & Awareness Community :: View topic - Rules of Disinformation
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
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Actually that's what you're doing when you are confronted with facts you resort to posting bullshit op-eds, dispute one of my points I double dog dare you so far your response has been the equivalent to "that's not what some foreign guy told me," well I'm sorry that doesn't meet the standard of proof.

Tell me what you think of what Smedley Butler said?
Major General Smedley Butler
Smedley Butler: War is a Racket

I don't really give a sh!t considering that millions upon millions of people have served in the armed services it's not to difficult to find one that hates his own country but what about the 99% who don't? Butler got bitter when he was passed over for promotions not to mention that he had strong Communist sympathies. I'm not swayed by your appeal to authority statements, I have made numerous points with falsifiable information none of which you have been able to dispute.

What do you think of what this marine said?
ZNet |Foreign Policy | Why I oppose the US War On Terror: An Ex Marine Speaks out

Again I don't give a sh!t for the reason I stated above, if you want to present marine testimony I guarantee you I can find 100 who love their country and support our foreign policy for every 1 you find who doesn't. What you posted is an op-ed in which numerous claims are made with no sources to back them up.

The fact that the US installs puppet governments in third world countries which then let them exploit the countries is just basic knowledge outside of the US.

Apparently the fact that these were totalitarian regimes who had been cozying up to the Soviets isn't common knowledge outside of America.

It just part of the basics. The only place where it isn't well-known is inside the US where information is tightly controlled.

You're out of your god damn mind, we have one of the most free exchange of information in the world.

Now with the internet Americans can finally read objective information.

lmfao you call your sources objective? Seriously dude you're a sad case every single one of your sources was non-objective with a clear anti-western anti-American agenda.

Here in Madrid where I live there's nothing more amusing than a group of Americans talking about politics.

Like I said dispute one of my facts I dare you.

Here's some more good stuff. This guy knows what he's talking about.
Michel Chossudovsky: War Propaganda
Michel Chossudovsky: Fabricating an Enemy

More copy paste have you ever had an original thought in your life?

Just for the sake of argument, let's debate these bullshit links, now your source makes this claim it is the very first claim he makes:

"The Department of Defense said they needed to do this, and they were going to actually plant stories that were false in foreign countries to – as an effort to influence public opinion across the world."

Now my challenge to you is to find where, when, and who from the DOD said they intended to and I quote: "plant stories that were false," if you can not find this I will from here on in ignore every piece of anti-American propaganda that you link to. Good hunting.

 

[Scott]

Actually that's what you're doing when you are confronted with facts you resort to posting bullshit op-eds,

You haven't done a very good job of disputing the facts that I presented. How can you demonstrate they are bullshit? The info in the articles I post is consistent with what the people from those places say; that'm much better than what you've presented--just the official US version of what happened.

Here is some of the stuff you posted.

Mossadeq dissolved Parliament and declared himself dictator through a rigged referendum in which he got 99.9% of the vote in his favor.

I don't know how this can be verified. None of the Iranians I've spoken to mentioned it. They only said that the US overthrew their democratically-elected leader and put their puppet in so they could go back to stealing their oil like they'd been doing before Mossadeq was elected.
Iran excerpted from the book Boomerang How our covert wars have created enemies across the Middle East and brought terror to America. by Mark Zepezauer

Allende was setting up a totalitarian Marxist state as is proven by the resolutions of the Chilean Chamber of Deputies and Supreme Court.

None of the Chileans I've spoken to mentioned that. I only hear that they were happy that Allende had nationalized the mines and plantations that were illegally owned by US companies so the resources of Chile would be in control of Chile, not the US.
There's a good movie that explains what happened.
The Battle of Chile (Part 1 & 2)
It's in Spanish though.

Arbenz was implementing Castro style land reformS and cozying up to the Soviets.

The Latin Americans I speak to don't complain about that.
Here's the story I get from them.
Guatemala 1953-1954 Kh

And finally the Sandinista regime was a genocidal and brutal totalitarian police state.

The stories I hear from Latin Americans are consistent with this.
Nicaragua 1981-1990 KH
I only hear that the Samoza regime was a brutal totalitarian state.

For more, enter those words in this search engine.
No match for ''

I don't really give a sh!t considering that millions upon millions of people have served in the armed services it's not to difficult to find one that hates his own country but what about the 99% who don't?

The point is that Smedley Butler was in a postion to see what was going on. The average soldier is not in that position. The same is true for Chris White--he did research and talked to the people from those countries.

I have made numerous points with falsifiable information none of which you have been able to dispute.

Nor have you been able to prove.

Apparently the fact that these were totalitarian regimes who had been cozying up to the Soviets isn't common knowledge outside of America.

This is just what the US govenment would say to justify action against those countries. They couldn't give the American people the real reasons.

t just part of the basics. The only place where it isn't well-known is inside the US where information is tightly controlled. You're out of your god damn mind, we have one of the most free exchange of information in the world.

Boy are you out-of-touch. Americans get upside-down analyses of world events. Here's some stuff for you to read.

http://www.thismodernworld.org/arc/1993/93short-attention-span.gif

Media Control book Chomsky
(excerpt)
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The United States pioneered the public relations industry. Its commitment was "to control the public mind, " as its leaders put it. They learned a lot from the successes of the Creel Commission and the successes in creating the Red Scare and its aftermath. The public relations industry underwent a huge expansion at that time. It succeeded for some time in creating almost total subordination of the public to business rule through the 1920s. This was so extreme that Congressional committees began to investigate it as we moved into the 1930s. That's where a lot of our information about it comes from.
Public relations is a huge industry. They're spending by now something on the order of a billion dollars a year. All along its commitment was to controlling the public mind. In the 1930s, big problems arose again, as they had during the First World War. There was a huge depression and substantial labor organizing. In fact, in 1935 labor won its first major legislative victory, namely, the right to organize, with the Wagner Act. That raised two serious problems. For one thing, democracy was misfunctioning. The bewildered herd was actually winning legislative victories, and it's not supposed to work that way. The other problem was that it was becoming possible for people to organize. People have to be atomized and segregated and alone. They're not supposed to organize, because then they might be something beyond spectators of action. They might actually be participants if many people with limited resources could get together to enter the political arena. That's really threatening. A major response was taken on the part of business to ensure that this would be the last legislative victory for labor and that it would be the beginning of the end of this democratic deviation of popular organization. It worked. That was the last legislative victory for labor. From that point on-although the number of people in the unions increased for a while during the World War II, after which it started dropping-the capacity to act through the unions began to steadily drop. It wasn't by accident. We're now talking about the business community, which spends lots and lots of money, attention, and thought into how to deal with these problems through the public relations industry and other organizations, like the National Association of Manufacturers and the Business Roundtable, and so on. They immediately set to work to try to find a way to counter these democratic deviations.
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What Makes Mainstream Media Mainstream, by Noam Chomsky
(excerpt)
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The real mass media are basically trying to divert people. Let them do something else, but don’t bother us (us being the people who run the show). Let them get interested in professional sports, for example. Let everybody be crazed about professional sports or sex scandals or the personalities and their problems or something like that. Anything, as long as it isn’t serious. Of course, the serious stuff is for the big guys. "We" take care of that.
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I have to continue this in the next post as it exceed the size limit.

 

[Scott]

Media Control
(excerpt)
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Walter Lippman, who was the dean of American journalists, a major foreign and domestic policy critic and also a major theorist of liberal democracy...argued that what he called a "revolution in the art of democracy," could be used to "manufacture consent," that is, to bring about agreement on the part of the public for things that they didn't want by the new techniques of propaganda....
...He argued that in a properly-functioning democracy there are classes of citizens. There is first of all the class of citizens who have to take some active role in running general affairs. That's the specialized class. They are the people who analyze, execute, make decisions, and run things in the political, economic, and ideological systems. That's a small percentage of the population... Those others, who are out of the small group, the big majority of the population, they are what Lippman called "the bewildered herd." We have to protect ourselves from the trampling and rage of the bewildered herd...
...So we need something to tame the bewildered herd, and that something is this new revolution in the art of democracy: the "manufacture of consent." The media, the schools, and popular culture have to be divided. For the political class and the decision makers have to give them some tolerable sense of reality, although they also have to instill the proper beliefs. Just remember, there is an unstated premise here. The unstated premise -- and even the responsible men have to disguise this from themselves -- has to do with the question of how they get into the position where they have the authority to make decisions. The way they do that, of course, is by serving people with real power. The people with real power are the ones who own the society, which is a pretty narrow group. If the specialized class can come along and say, I can serve your interests, then they'll be part of the executive group. You've got to keep that quiet. That means they have to have instilled in them the beliefs and doctrines that will serve the interests of private power. Unless they can master that skill, they're not part of the specialized class. They have to be deeply indoctrinated in the values and interests of private power and the state-corporate nexus that represents it. If they can get through that, then they can be part of the specialized class. The rest of the bewildered herd just have to be basically distracted. Turn their attention to something else....
...In what is nowadays called a totalitarian state, then a military state, it's easy. You just hold a bludgeon over their heads, and if they get out of line you smash them over the head. But as society has become more free and democratic, you lose that capacity. Therefore you have to turn to the techniques of propaganda. The logic is clear. Propaganda is to democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state....
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There are a lot more analyses of the american media here.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Media/media_watch.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Propaganda/Propaganda_page.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Media_control_propaganda/Media_Control.html

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ruling_Elites/BilderbergClub.html

As I've said in some other threads, outside of the US political conversations that people have are based on very different information than those you hear inside the US. They are based on info like what is found in this website.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/

Now with the internet Americans can finally read objective information.

lmfao you call your sources objective? Seriously dude you're a sad case every single one of your sources was non-objective with a clear anti-western anti-American agenda.

That's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it after all the suffering caused by the US.
Operation Mockingbird: CIA Media Manipulation
(excerpt)
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The Association for Responsible Dissent estimates that 6 million people had died by 1987 as a result of CIA covert operations, called an "American Holocaust" by former State Department official William Blum.
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Now my challenge to you is to find where, when, and who from the DOD said they intended to and I quote: "plant stories that were false," if you can not find this I will from here on in ignore every piece of anti-American propaganda that you link to. Good hunting.

This isn't going to be public information. It would be impossible for somebody without a high security clearance to find.

You behave like a stereotype disinfo agent.
Opposing Digits - Health & Awareness Community :: View topic - Rules of Disinformation
(excerpt)
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19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the "play dumb" rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon). In order to completely avoid discussing issues may require you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
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It's pretty clear that you work for the government and that you don't even believe your own arguments.

Also, here's a good video about Cambodia.
http://video.google.es/videoplay?docid=-8001898387464764449&q=cambodia

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

You haven't done a very good job of disputing the facts that I presented. How can you demonstrate they are bullshit? The info in the articles I post is consistent with what the people from those places say; that'm much better than what you've presented--just the official US version of what happened.

None of your sources would be accepted as legitimate reference material in a college or scholarly essay, for example you use "thirdworldtraveler," "Noam Chomsky," and Jaheeza Christ newbie you use "prison planet," that's a bad newbie, bad newbie.

Now I'm going to do you a favor here and take your sources apart piece by piece.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I don't know how this can be verified. None of the Iranians I've spoken to mentioned it. They only said that the US overthrew their democratically-elected leader and put their puppet in so they could go back to stealing their oil like they'd been doing before Mossadeq was elected.
Iran excerpted from the book Boomerang How our covert wars have created enemies across the Middle East and brought terror to America. by Mark Zepezauer

Mossadeq not the Shah or the U.S. ended Democracy in Iran, Mossadeq destroyed the Iranian economy, he dissolved Parliament through a fraudulent election in which he got a 99.9% yay vote and then he extended his "emergency" powers indefinately; furthermore, under the Shah the Iranian economy was modernized and women were granted equal suffrage. Now first I'm going to show you a few sources that states how Mossadeq became de-facto dictator of Iran, then I will show you the modernization reforms of the Shah known as the White Revolution:

The prime minister called a referendum to dissolve parliament. The vote was rigged and he won by 99 percent, which did nothing to inspire confidence on the streets.

Jonathan Manthorpe, The roots of radical Islam

The results of the Aug. 4 referendum were clearly rigged in his favor; The New York Times
reported the same day that the prime minister had won 99.9 percent of the vote.

How a Plot Convulsed Iran in '53 (and in '79)

Now here are the white revolution modernization policies of the Shah which include granting equal voting rights to all Iranian citizens (including women) for the first time (not only in Iranian history) but in any Muslim majority nation ever:

1- Land Reforms Program and Abolishing Feudalism: The government bought the land from the feudal land lords at a fair price and sold it to the peasants at 30% below the market value, with the loan being payable over 25 years at very low interest rates. This made it possible for 1.5 million peasant families, who had once been nothing more than slaves, to own the lands that they had been cultivating all their lives. Given that average size of a peasant family was 5, land reforms program brought freedom to 9 million people, or 40% of Iran's population.

2- Nationalization of Forests and Pasturelands: Introduced many measures, not only to protect the national resources and stop the destruction of forests and pasturelands, but also to further develop and cultivate them. More than 9 million tress were planted in 26 regions, creating 70,000 acres of "green belts" around cities and on the borders of the major highways.

3- Privatization of the Government Owned Enterprises, manufacturing plants and factories by selling their shares to the public and the old feudal lords, thus creating a whole new class of factory owners who could now help to industrialize the country.

4- Profit Sharing for industrial workers in private sector enterprises, giving the factory workers and employees 20% share of the net profits of the places where they worked and securing bonuses based on higher productivity or reductions in costs.

5- Extending the Right to Vote to Women, who had no voice and were suppressed by Islamic traditions. This measure was widely criticized by the clergy.

6- Formation of the Literacy Corps, so that those who had a high school diploma and were required to serve their country as soldiers could do so in fighting illiteracy in the villages. At this point in time 2/3 of the population was illiterate.

7- Formation of the Health Corps to extend public health care throughout the villages and rural regions of Iran. In 3 years, almost 4,500 medical groups were trained; nearly 10 million cases were treated by the Corps.

8- Formation of the Reconstruction and Development Corps to teach the villagers the modern methods and techniques of farming and keeping livestock. Agricultural production between 1964 and 1970 increased by 80% in tonnage and 67% in value.

9- Formation of the Houses of Equity where 5 village elders would be elected by the villagers, for a period of 3 years, to act as arbitrators in order to help settle minor offences and disputes. By 1977 there were 10,358 Houses of Equity serving over 10 million people living in over 19,000 villages across the country.

10- Nationalization of all Water Resources, introduction of projects and policies in order to conserve and benefit from Iran's limited water resources. Many dams were constructed and five more were under construction in 1978. It was as a result of these measures that the area of land under irrigation increased from 2 million acres, in 1968, to 5.6 million in 1977.

11- Urban and Rural Modernization and Reconstruction with the help of the Reconstruction and Development Corps. Building of public baths, schools and libraries; installing water pumps and power generators for running water and electricity.

12- Didactic Reforms that improved the quality of education by diversifying the curriculum in order to adapt to the necessities of life in the modern world.

13- Workers' Right to Own Shares in the Industrial Complexes where they worked by turning Industrial units, with 5 years history and over, into public companies, where up to 99% of the shares in the state-owned enterprises and 49% of the shares of the private companies would be offered for sale to the workers of the establishment at first and then to the general public.

14- Price Stabilization and campaign against unreasonable profiteering (1975). Owners of factories and large chain stores were heavily fined, with some being imprisoned and other's licenses being revoked. Sanctions were imposed on multi-national foreign companies and tons of merchandise stored for speculative purposes were confiscated and sold to consumers at fixed prices.

15- Free and Compulsory Education and a daily free meal for all children from kindergarten to eighth grade. In 1978, 25% of Iranians were enrolled in public schools alone. In that same year there were 185,000 students of both sexes studying in Iran's universities. In addition to the above there were over 100,000 students pursuing their studies abroad, of which 50,000 were enrolled in colleges and universities in the United States.

16- Free Food for Needy Mothers and for all newborn babies up to the age of two.

17- Introduction of Social Security and National Insurance for all Iranians. National Insurance system provided for up to 100% of the wages during retirement.

18- Stable and Reasonable Cost of Renting or Buying of Residential Properties (1977). Controls were placed on land prices and various forms of land speculation.

19- Introduction of Measures to Fight against Corruption within the bureaucracy. Imperial Inspection Commission was founded, consisting of representatives from administrative bodies and people of proven integrity.

White Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Furthermore; under the Shah it was a legitimate constitiutional monarchy and even though the Shah was confronted with massive opposition by both the Communists (MEK) and the Islamic Fascists he never dissolved Parliament. The Islamic Fascists were mainly upset because the Shah allowed women to vote and because his educational reforms took the teaching jobs away from the clergy who prior to that were in control of all of the educational institutions in Iran.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

None of the Chileans I've spoken to mentioned that. I only hear that they were happy that Allende had nationalized the mines and plantations that were illegally owned by US companies so the resources of Chile would be in control of Chile, not the US.
There's a good movie that explains what happened.
The Battle of Chile (Part 1 & 2)
It's in Spanish though.

A) You must be talking to the wrong Chileans, under Allende's economic reforms there were massive shortages, for example have you ever heard of the march of the empty pots:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0094-582X(197521)2:1<101:TMOWDT>2.0.CO;2-N

B) I will now show you how Allende was ordered by the Chilean Chamber of Deputies and Chilean Supreme Court (the equivalent of our House of Representatives) to step down from office for his numerous violations of the Chilean Constituiton.

This first link leads to the resolution from the Chamber of Deputies, it lists all of Allende's violations of the Chilean Constitution which are to numerous to list on this page:

Declaration of Breakdown of Chile's Democracy

Now while I can not find a copy of the Supreme Court Resolution I was able to dig up an article which mentions it and offers a quote which provides the thrust of their argument:

Still earlier, on May 26, 1973, Chile’s Supreme Court issued a unanimous resolution denouncing the Allende regime’s “disruption of the legality of the nation” by its failure to uphold judicial decisions.

Pinochet dead. Left celebrates, wiser heads remember | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog

C) Now I will show you how in Allende's own words his intentions for Chilean Democracy:

"The answer is the proletariat. If it wasn't so I wouldn't be here [...] As for the bourgeois state, at the present moment, we are seeking to overcome it. To overthrow it. [...] Our objective is total, scientific, Marxist socialism" — In an interview with French Journalist Regis Debray in 1970.

(Attributed) "I am not the president of all the Chileans. I am not a hypocrite that says so." — At a public rally, quoted by all Chilean newspapers, January 17, 1971. President Allende sent a public letter to El Mercurio newspaper to deny this alleged statement.

After all, Allende himself had confided to Regis Debray “that his differences with apostles of violence like Guevara were only ‘tactical,’ plus his admission that he was observing legality ‘for the time being,’ and his assertion that he had agreed to the Statute of Democratic Guarantees as a ‘tactical necessity’.” (Sigmund, p. 140). And his own Socialist Party, at its Congress in January 1971, had stated that “the special conditions under which Popular Unity came to power oblige it to observe the limits of a bourgeois state for now” and had warned its members to prepare for “the decisive confrontation with the bourgeoisie and imperialism.” (Sigmund, footnote 7/12)

The Allende myth - Political Debate Forum : US & World Politics

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Originally Posted by Scott


The stories I hear from Latin Americans are consistent with this.
Nicaragua 1981-1990 KH
I only hear that the Samoza regime was a brutal totalitarian state.

Well here's the story you haven't gotten IE the Sandinista genocide against the indiginious peoples of Nicaragua:

As in Castro’s Cuba, the Sandinistas immediately set up neighborhood associations as local spy networks for the government. Each neighborhood had a Comité de Defensa Sandinista (Sandinista Defense Committee), or CDS, and it served exactly the same totalitarian purpose as the Cuban CDR (Committees for the Defense of the Revolution).

The Sandinista army committed myriad atrocities against the Indian population, killing and imprisoning approximately 15,000 innocent people.

The crimes included not only mass murders of innocent natives themselves, but a calculated liquidation of their entire leadership – as the Soviet army had perpetrated against the Poles in Katyn in 1943.

According to the Nicaraguan Commission of Jurists, the Sandinistas carried out over 8,000 political executions within three years of the revolution. The number of "anti-revolutionary" Nicaraguans who had "disappeared" in Sanadinista hands or had died "trying to escape" were numbered in the thousands. By 1983, the number of political prisoners in the Sandinistas' ruthless tyranny were estimated at 20,000. Torture was institutionalized.

Numerous human rights organizations, including Amnesty International and the United Nations Human Rights Commission, have documented the atrocious record of Sandinista human rights abuses, which stood as the worst in Latin America.

Remembering Sandinista Genocide

So there you have it the Sandinista regime set up a massive secret police force in line with the Cuban CDR's, do you know what a CDR is? Well I'll show you in a second. But not only that they perpetrated massive genocide against the Mosquito peoples.

Here's what a CDR is:

DECENTRALIZATION, LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND CITIZEN PARTICIPATION IN CUBA
Nelson Amaro​

The CDR officials have the duty to know the activities
of each person in their respective blocks. There is
an individual file kept on each block resident, some
of which reveal the internal dynamics of households.
For this reason Maida Donate-Armada (1996) says
that “perhaps the greatest contribution (of the
CDRs) to the history of world espionage may be to
have raised to the level of counterintelligence the daily
gossip (chismes) and disagreements (bretes) that go
on at the neighborhood level. Citizens must be careful
of their actions and of what they say, as they are
being constantly monitored by the block CDR.

The structure consists of a president, vice-president,
a treasurer, an organizer, an official responsible for
the work force, and another for ideological control.
CDRs all include an important component, referred
to as the CDR Vigilance and Public Order Front
(Vigilancia y Orden Público). After the September
1986 CDR Congress, a special component (front)
was introduced to assist those young people who neither
work nor study. This division of the CDR is referred
to as the Prevention and Education Front.
This front notifies the police department of all pertinent
information regarding young people who are
neither in school nor working.

CDR characteristics probably vary according to population
size, prevalence of common crime or acts
against the state, extremism of the CDR authorities,
educational level, etc. An important variable is the
lack of commitment of the rank and file at the local
level.

Militancy in CDRs is interchangeable with other organizations
such as the FMC, the Communist Party,
or the League of Young Communists. Any militant
of the Party or of the Youth must show that he or she
is a member of the CDRs and/or FMC. These last
two organizations, together with the Party and the
Youth are the most active at the local level. The statutes
of the Cuban Communist Party of Cuba, Chapter
VIII, Article 73, states:

“The Party guides and directs the work of the mass
and social organizations, based on the principle of full
and conscious acceptance of its leadership role and of
the influence its members and aspirants have in the
mass organizations, while recognizing the organic independence
of those organizations.”19


Within each block, there is one other agent who
deals indirectly with the CDRs: this person reports
directly to an officer of the security apparatus of the
Ministry of Interior. Very rarely are the secret duties
of this person known to other block citizens or CDR
officials. In order for a CDR official to be informed
of the duties of this person, there must be a working
relationship on a particular case.

19. As quoted in Ritter (1985, p. 277).
The organization of the CDRs by sectors and blocks
follows the national-regional-province-municipalityzone-
sector-block pyramid structure. The sector controller
holds a full-time job. They patrol on foot
since they do not have other means of transportation.
Their work hours might vary from 9:00 a.m. to as
late as 11:00 p.m. Most of them do not even live in
the sectors they patrol. The president of the CDR
provides all pertinent information to the sector controller.
Frequently, however, the sector controller
does not trust the CDR president and usually verifies
this information with VOP Front Officials.

If enough evidence of wrongdoing is found regarding
a particular citizen, the sector controller meets with
that individual. Three warnings are given to each citizen,
with the first two given in written form. After
one warning, the citizen’s file is classified as category
A; after two warnings, as B. The third warning results
in the arrest of the citizen and classification of his or
her file as category C.

There are national, provincial, municipal, and zone
meetings for all CDR presidents, who then pass on
the information to their block officials and citizens.
The VOP Front consists of people who have shown
extreme loyalty to the revolution, and who are willing
to go to great means to discover wrongdoing.
The background of the Front officials varies from retirees
to people who have served in international missions.
The ideological control person usually has a
college degree.

As is depicted in Figure 1, the Ministry of Interior
and the CDRs have parallel structures. Security bodies
(intelligence and counterintelligence) and police
back-stop this mass organization. Designation of officials
for different posts within CDRs, especially for
being in charge of “vigilance,” are subject to consultation
with the MININT officer in charge.

This network in turn is linked to the chiefs of “defense
zones” and territorial militia, which are the
lower layer of the so-called “Republic of Cuba’s
Unique System of Exploration” and the mobilization
chain for any war action. “Defense zones” are in
charge of evacuating the civil population and destroying
cities and towns if the socialist system is in
danger. These activities are connected to the Ministry
of Armed Forces.

There are “Voluntary Brigades of Activists” that are
mobilized according to instructions of the state security
apparatus. The Brigades are sometimes called
into action by the police. They are the direct antecedent
of the so-called “Brigadas de Respuesta Rápida”
(Quick Response Brigades) that hold “repudiation
meetings” in front of the homes of undesirable
neighbors, sometimes when it is known that they
plan to leave the island. The Brigades are a sort of
para-military organization backed by the Cuban authorities
established for the purpose of harassing and
fighting—physically sometimes, with sticks, bricks,
and hammers—dissident neighbors and families.

The notion of civil society is alien to the policies that
the Cuban leadership is pursuing at present. The theories
of “transmission belts” and an “enlightened
vanguard” suit more closely regime’s goals and
modus operandi. The essence of civil society lies in
the possibility that social groups could be autonomous,
particularly from military and government tutelage
and control. This is impossible in today’s Cuban
society. The leadership has a horizontal
circulation system that allows the same faces and
names to transfer from government to mass organizations
to military positions. This revolving system has
been operating for 36 years.

The Party, the State and mass organizations are intertwined.
To claim that Cuban mass organizations represent
civil society is to deny that the latter has any
right to exist as an independent force. This is the
kind of participation Nazi and fascist regimes encourage,
together with the “personality cult” of the
leader. The revolutionary leadership and the leader
himself have designed a totalitarian society; changes
to the control mechanisms and reforms are attempts
to strengthen this grip.

http://lanic.utexas.edu/la/cb/cuba/a...36amaro.fm.pdf

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The point is that Smedley Butler was in a postion to see what was going on. The average soldier is not in that position. The same is true for Chris White--he did research and talked to the people from those countries.

O.K. so two anti-American former soldiers are reputable but the thousands of pro-American troops should be dismissed. That's some good logic.

Nor have you been able to prove.

I've proven all of my assertions beyond any doubt, you have either through design or ignorance chosen to ignore the truth.

This is just what the US govenment would say to justify action against those countries. They couldn't give the American people the real reasons.

I've already showed you falsifiable information you have posted op-eds with clearly non-objective agendas.

Boy are you out-of-touch. Americans get upside-down analyses of world events. Here's some stuff for you to read.

http://www.thismodernworld.org/arc/1993/93short-attention-span.gif

Is that your evidence? A freaking cartoon, what are you joking?

Media Control book Chomsky

I've already told you what I think of Chomsky he is a Communist Propagandist, he is a linguist IE he has devoted his life to twisting language, here's the Noam Chomsky you might not have heard of here he is showing his support for the totalitarian and aggressor nation of North Vietnam regime who after U.S. withdrawal perpetrated many crimes against humanity against the peaceful South Vietnamese:

Noam Chomsky: Viet Cong Cheerleader

"Yesterday and today, my friends and I visited Tanh Hoa province. There we were able to see at first hand the constructive work of the social revolution of the Vietnamese people. We saw luxurious fields and lovely countryside. We saw brave men and women who know how to defend their country from brutal aggression, but also to work with pride and with dignity to build a society of material prosperity, social justice, and cultural progress. I would like to express the great joy that we feel in your accomplishments.

"We also saw the ruins of dwellings and hospitals, villages mutilated by savage bombardments, craters disfiguring the peaceful countryside. In the midst of the creative achievements of the Vietnamese people, we came face to face with the savagery of a technological monster controlled by a social class, the rulers of the American empire, that has no place in the 20th century, that has only the capacity to repress and murder and destroy.

"We also saw the (Ham Ranh) Bridge, standing proud and defiant, and carved on the bills above we read the words, 'determined to win.' The people of Vietnam will win, they must win, because your cause is the cause of humanity as it moves forward toward liberty and justice, toward the socialist society in which free, creative men control their own destiny.
"This is my first visit to Vietnam. Nevertheless, since the moment when we arrived at the airport at Hanoi, I've had a remarkable and very satisfying feeling of being entirely at home. It is as if we are renewing old friendships rather than meeting new friends. It is as if we are returning to places that have a deep and personal meaning.

"In part, this is because of the warmth and the kindness with which we have been received, wherever we have gone. In part, it is because for many years we have wished all our strength and will to stand beside you in your struggle. We are deeply grateful to you that you permit us to be part of your brave and historical struggle. We hope that there will continue to be strong bonds of comradeship between the people of Vietnam and the many Americans who wish you success and who detest with all of their being the hateful activities of the American government.
"Those bonds of friendship are woven of many strands. From our point of view there is first of all the deep sympathy that we felt for the suffering of the Vietnamese people, which persists and increases in the southern part of your country, where the American aggression continues in full force.

"There is, furthermore, a feeling of regret and shame that we must feel because we have not been able to stop the American war machine. More important still is our admiration for the people of Vietnam who have been able to defend themselves against the ferocious attack, and at the same time take great strides forward toward the socialist society.

"But, above all, I think, is the feeling of pride. Your heroism reveals the capabilities of the human spirit and human will. Decent people throughout the world see in your struggle a model for themselves. They are in your debt, everlastingly, because you were in the forefront of the struggle to create a world in which the chains of oppression have been broken and replaced by social bonds among free men working in true solidarity and cooperation.

"Your courage and your achievements teach us that we too must be determined to win--not only to win the battle against American aggression in Southeast Asia, but also the battle against exploitation and racism in our own country.

"I believe that in the United States there will be some day a social revolution that will be of great significance to us and to all of mankind, and if this hope is to be proven correct, it will be in large part because the people of Vietnam have shown us the way.


"While in Hanoi I have had the opportunity to read the recent and very important book by Le Duan on the problems and tasks of the Vietnamese revolution. In it, he says that the fundamental interests of the proletariat of the people of all the world consists in at the same time in safeguarding world peace and moving the revolution forward in all countries. This is our common goal. We only hope that we can build upon your historic achievements. Thank you."- Noam Chomsky, originally delivered on April 13, 1970 in Hanoi while he was visiting North Vietnam with a group of anti-war activists. Broadcast by Radio Hanoi on April 14, and published in the _Asia-Pacific Daily Report_ of the U.S. government's Foreign Broadcast Information Service, April 16, 1970, pages K2-K3.

No Treason - Noam Chomsky: Viet Cong Cheerleader by Tim Starr​

Here he is apologizing for the Kymer Rouge and Pol-Pot in a classic case of leftist holocaust denial:​

Chomsky said we should be wary of “the extreme unreliability of refugee reports”:​

Refugees are frightened and defenseless, at the mercy of alien forces. They naturally tend to report what they believe their interlocutors wish to hear. While these reports must be considered seriously, care and caution are necessary. Specifically, refugees questioned by Westerners or Thais have a vested interest in reporting atrocities on the part of Cambodian revolutionaries, an obvious fact that no serious reporter will fail to take into account.​

In 1980, Chomsky expanded this critique into the book After the Cataclysm, co-authored with his long-time collaborator Edward S. Herman. Ostensibly about Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, the great majority of its content was a defense of the position Chomsky took on the Pol Pot regime. By this time, Chomsky was well aware that something terrible had happened: “The record of atrocities in Cambodia is substantial and often gruesome,” he wrote. “There can be little doubt that the war was followed by an outbreak of violence, massacre and repression.” He mocked the suggestion, however, that the death toll might have reached more than a million and attacked Senator George McGovern’s call for military intervention to halt what McGovern called “a clear case of genocide.”




Instead, Chomsky commended authors who apologized for the Pol Pot regime. He approvingly cited their analyses that the forced march of the population out of Phnom Penh was probably necessitated by the failure of the 1976 rice crop. If this was true, Chomsky wrote, “the evacuation of Phnom Penh, widely denounced at the time and since for its undoubted brutality, may actually have saved many lives.” Chomsky rejected the charge of genocide, suggesting that

the deaths in Cambodia were not the result of systematic slaughter and starvation organized by the state but rather attributable in large measure to peasant revenge, undisciplined military units out of government control, starvation and disease that are direct consequences of the [SIZE=-1]US[/SIZE] war, or other such factors.​

The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky by Keith Windschuttle

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

This isn't going to be public information. It would be impossible for somebody without a high security clearance to find.

You behave like a stereotype of a disinfo agent.

Wow now isn't that convenient for your argument? Why wouldn't it be public information? Obviously your source was able to obtain said information, where did he get that information? How are we to know that he didn't make it all up off the top of his head? And just who the hell do you think you are to make a claim, fail to provide evidence to back your claim, and then critisize me as a disinformation agent? It's really quite laughable, I provide evidence to back my assertions you provide assertions without evidence, so just who is it that is providing disinformation pal?

Opposing Digits - Health & Awareness Community :: View topic - Rules of Disinformation
(excerpt)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs.

You didn't present any proof, your source made an assertion without any evidence to back it, he said the DOD said something when there is 0 evidence to back his claim. Is that what passes for proof in your book? No wonder you have such a ****ed up view of the world, you'll take these clearly politically motivated sources from off the internet no less, at face value without even questioning the validity of their claims, and the sad part is you are here saying that it is us who are being spoon fed propaganda, wake up buddy.

It's pretty clear that you work for the government and that you don't even believe your own arguments.

Yes I work for the government and seeing as you are using "prison planet," as a source I'm sure you will be expecting the black helicopters to be arriving shortly. :roll: I'm a college student at the University of South Florida, and while I do intend to get a position at the CIA after I gain my masters degree in international relations while I am with the Navy (or airforce) I'm not there yet.