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American France?

How's this just to continue the silly nationalist idea. The US is the best place on the planet to make money, Spain's the best place on the planet to spend that money.

But then as Virgess says that's just my opinion kind of like Skil's opinion.
 
GarzaUK said:
Trust me, I live in a province that seen 30 years of terrorism. Do you know how we ended it? Not through bombs and bullets, through thinning down their recruitment lines.

Oh good, let's just have 30 years of buildings falling down and civilians dying and then we can hope for peace.

Nah, let's just change their way of life NOW. Hey Gunny, go thin some lines.

Classic Garza, did you come up with that yourself?
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Just one thing, Americans oldest allied is French along with my country Sweden. (Ok maybee not my country, but we was jthe first country to acknowledge USA indepedence but French was your first allied by supporting you in your indepedence war). The UK is you oldest enemy (even if it is your allied now).

If you know anything about the world opinion for or against the war you should now that it was mostly against the war. France just became one of the leaders for the opinion against the war. But yes I can understand it was much more easy to sell that the evil french was against the war compared to say that most of the world is stupid.

I don't know that frenchman but I know alot of his swedish friends at swedish liberal newspapers, that couldn't understand that you could both be againt a dictator and against a war against a dictator. In contrast to most of the swedish people.

But all of you that though it was wrong for French not to go to war? Don't you see the risk of going to war with allied country there the people are against the war.

I don't think most Americans expected the French to go to war. I do think most Americans expect free nations to exhibit some form of solidarity towards each other....or at least keep the malicious rhetoric to a minimum. With more than 300,000 Americans buried in French soil...we deserve at least that.

Unfortunately, "world opinion" is not going to protect our country against our enemies....and France is never going to forgive the United States for having liberated them.

That alliance that you speak of was more than 200 years ago....and it was not so much for the benefit of the US as it was a maneuvering action by a World Power at the time to gain an edge on Great Britain.
 
Inuyasha said:
How's this just to continue the silly nationalist idea. The US is the best place on the planet to make money, Spain's the best place on the planet to spend that money.

But then as Virgess says that's just my opinion kind of like Skil's opinion.

You are right about Spain being the best place to spend your money. My favorite spot is Peñíscola.
 
teacher said:
Oh good, let's just have 30 years of buildings falling down and civilians dying and then we can hope for peace.

Nah, let's just change their way of life NOW. Hey Gunny, go thin some lines.

Classic Garza, did you come up with that yourself?

Are you unable to see 5 minutes beyond you teacher? Short sighted much?

The reason why it went on for 30 years was because the British government used bombs and bullets like America is doing now. IF the US continues what it is doing now, it will be a 30 year war.

Pissed off muslims = terrorists. That's the formula that caused the London bombings.

Nah, let's just change their way of life NOW. Hey Gunny, go thin some lines.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.
 
MiamiFlorida said:
I don't think most Americans expected the French to go to war. I do think most Americans expect free nations to exhibit some form of solidarity towards each other....or at least keep the malicious rhetoric to a minimum. With more than 300,000 Americans buried in French soil...we deserve at least that.

Unfortunately, "world opinion" is not going to protect our country against our enemies....and France is never going to forgive the United States for having liberated them.

That alliance that you speak of was more than 200 years ago....and it was not so much for the benefit of the US as it was a maneuvering action by a World Power at the time to gain an edge on Great Britain.
Please re-read what you wrote..

You don't think americans expected the french to go to war? Nevertheless, as they didn't, the anti-french racism in the US is higher than any other form of racism that ever existed in your country. Don't blind yourself. What you expected (and I mean.. YOU, not the majority of the americans) was that France backed the invasion of Iraq based on a little vial of pseudo-antrax, and on Colin Powell's poor prestation at the UN. THAT would have been a disgrace. The disgrace of accepting lies because US soldiers hepled liberate Europe during WWII.
It's not because a friend of yours killed someone that you HAVE to give him an alibi,.. and if you do, the justice of your country will condemn you.

Think about it. France told you: "don't go.. there's nothing.. The world will judge you, and the arab countries certainly will see it as an attack of a catholic US president against the muslim community. There are other ways to achieve a war against islamist terrorists. Invading Iraq won't help".

YOU didn't listen, you are with the quagmire on your hands. Be racist if you want to, nobody can help that. But don't be stupid.

CU
Y
 
epr64 said:
Please re-read what you wrote..

You don't think americans expected the french to go to war? Nevertheless, as they didn't, the anti-french racism in the US is higher than any other form of racism that ever existed in your country. Don't blind yourself. What you expected (and I mean.. YOU, not the majority of the americans) was that France backed the invasion of Iraq based on a little vial of pseudo-antrax, and on Colin Powell's poor prestation at the UN. THAT would have been a disgrace. The disgrace of accepting lies because US soldiers hepled liberate Europe during WWII.
It's not because a friend of yours killed someone that you HAVE to give him an alibi,.. and if you do, the justice of your country will condemn you.

Think about it. France told you: "don't go.. there's nothing.. The world will judge you, and the arab countries certainly will see it as an attack of a catholic US president against the muslim community. There are other ways to achieve a war against islamist terrorists. Invading Iraq won't help".

YOU didn't listen, you are with the quagmire on your hands. Be racist if you want to, nobody can help that. But don't be stupid.

CU
Y

First of all, there's no reason for calling me stupid. If you can't debate in a civilized manner or are are not up to the task of presenting a lucid argument without personal attacks, please refrain from addressing me.

I don't need to re-read what I wrote.

The anti-French xenophobia that we have experienced in the United States recently is not an action...it's a REACTION. It's a reaction to the anti-American sentiment that we have been quietly digesting for the past 50 years without so much as a "wait here"!

As I said before....we did not expect the French to do anything. We never have. Just stay out of the way.

For the record: Bush is not Catholic. Get your facts straight.
 
MiamiFlorida said:
First of all, there's no reason for calling me stupid. If you can't debate in a civilized manner or are are not up to the task of presenting a lucid argument without personal attacks, please refrain from addressing me.

I don't need to re-read what I wrote.

The anti-French xenophobia that we have experienced in the United States recently is not an action...it's a REACTION. It's a reaction to the anti-American sentiment that we have been quietly digesting for the past 50 years without so much as a "wait here"!

As I said before....we did not expect the French to do anything. We never have. Just stay out of the way.

For the record: Bush is not Catholic. Get your facts straight.

I will comment on both this post from you and your older one. First it can be a risk that the world loose there solidarity with america if americans use the same selective memory as you did. Because I really hope you remember the solidarity that the world including France showed the USA after 9/11 and also that the world including France gladly approved both the war against afganisthan as drastic global cuts in civil liberties (the freezing of peoples entire private property with even a sentence in court) to fight terrorism.

But that solidarity didn't stretch to unquestionable support for the USA, like I think some americans sadly wanted. Because then both the goverments and the people in many countries and also the worldopinion think the USA is doing the wrong thing people and countries should have of course the right to question and also organisatizing against the Americans plans, if you don't think that the world belongs to America. Also one thing with selective memory in history is that yes USA had a important part in wining the second world war. But you didn't go to war to help others you went to war because you there atacked. Even if you of course did some good things to help before you there atacked.

So you have never question the France the last fifty years and mad fun of them? And that combined with how France was potrayed by your leaders and in you media hadn't a big part in the action/reaction?
 
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GarzaUK said:
War doesn't work and effects innocent people too. Trust me, I live in a province that seen 30 years of terrorism. Do you know how we ended it? Not through bombs and bullets, through thinning down their recruitment lines.

War only helps to enlarge the recruitment lines. Terrorism supplies aren't guns or food, it's people.

In the UK Islamic radicalism has risen because of the wars in the middle east, because Islamic people get pissed off when nations wage illegal wars and see their fellow innocent muslims dying.


The ME is a **** hole, and has been long before we were there. The poverty, the war, the death. All were there before we ever showed up. Is it our fault that the Saudis prefered having us around as oposed to Bin laden? I am not going to pacify people so that they will leave us alone, because they won't. They wil continue to track and target innocent children and civilians. They do this because they are animals. And like a dangerous animal that threatens humans, they need to be put down. The problem we are running into is this odd desire to fight a PC war. The is getting a lot more soldiers killed then I think ever should have been. Personally I would rather pull everything out of the ME and wait for the whole region to erupt and implode on itself. Sit back and let them kill each other instead of us. The problem with that is they want to kill more then just each other. They want to kill us also. And since we are not allowed to mount any effective security within our country against terrorist, we are easy pickins.
 
epr64 said:
Please re-read what you wrote..

You don't think americans expected the french to go to war? Nevertheless, as they didn't, the anti-french racism in the US is higher than any other form of racism that ever existed in your country. Don't blind yourself. What you expected (and I mean.. YOU, not the majority of the americans) was that France backed the invasion of Iraq based on a little vial of pseudo-antrax, and on Colin Powell's poor prestation at the UN. THAT would have been a disgrace. The disgrace of accepting lies because US soldiers hepled liberate Europe during WWII.

Nope... He was right, least in my opinion. Most Americans never expected the french to support anything we were involved in. They counldn't find enough in it for them so it wasn't worth it. It was no surprise whatsoever when france said no. Course they said no because they didn't want Iraq defaulting on those sneaky loans, not because the people were against the war. Trust me.... America and Americans expect very little if anything at all from france or the french.
epr64 said:
It's not because a friend of yours killed someone that you HAVE to give him an alibi,.. and if you do, the justice of your country will condemn you.

Think about it. France told you: "don't go.. there's nothing.. The world will judge you, and the arab countries certainly will see it as an attack of a catholic US president against the muslim community. There are other ways to achieve a war against islamist terrorists. Invading Iraq won't help".

YOU didn't listen, you are with the quagmire on your hands. Be racist if you want to, nobody can help that. But don't be stupid.

CU
Y

Sorry but there was no great humanitarian french reasoning going on when they said no. There was self interest and the desire to not get caught making loans to saddam and Iraq. The war exposed that and france went into spin control IMO.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
I will comment on both this post from you and your older one. First it can be a risk that the world loose there solidarity with america if americans use the same selective memory as you did. Because I really hope you remember the solidarity that the world including France showed the USA after 9/11 and also that the world including France gladly approved both the war against afganisthan as drastic global cuts in civil liberties (the freezing of peoples entire private property with even a sentence in court) to fight terrorism.

But that solidarity didn't stretch to unquestionable support for the USA, like I think some americans sadly wanted. Because then both the goverments and the people in many countries and also the worldopinion think the USA is doing the wrong thing people and countries should have of course the right to question and also organisatizing against the Americans plans, if you don't think that the world belongs to America. Also one thing with selective memory in history is that yes USA had a important part in wining the second world war. But you didn't go to war to help others you went to war because you there atacked. Even if you of course did some good things to help before you there atacked.

So you have never question the France the last fifty years and mad fun of them? And that combined with how France was potrayed by your leaders and in you media hadn't a big part in the action/reaction?

As I said before....we were looking for neither approval nor participation.

Your argument about American foreign policy at first sounds convincing—after all, lots of Europeans have been complaining about Bush of late. But it doesn't hold water when it comes to France. The French never really liked the Clinton administration, either. In June 2000, during President Clinton's last year in office, France was the only one of 107 countries to refuse to sign a U.S. initiative aimed at encouraging democracy around the world.

The debate over French anti-Americanism centers on this question: Do they hate us because of who we are, or what we do? The French oppose the United States, quite simply, for what it is—the most powerful country on earth.


I'll tell you a little story:

My brother was stationed with the U.S. Army in Germany back in the late 60's. He was invited to participate as an Honor Guard at the funeral of a French resistance fighter in Paris. When his military detail showed up at the cemetery in military dress uniforms, Parisians were standing in line to spit on them....and they were there to pay tribute to a French hero!

I've NEVER met an American who has visited France...myself included....that was not treated rudely JUST because of his or her nationality. I did not see that animosity in Italy, or Spain or Switzerland. I wonder why.

So now our media is portraying the French the way they have ALWAYS portrayed us.....big deal!
 
MiamiFlorida said:
As I said before....we were looking for neither approval nor participation.

Your argument about American foreign policy at first sounds convincing—after all, lots of Europeans have been complaining about Bush of late. But it doesn't hold water when it comes to France. The French never really liked the Clinton administration, either. In June 2000, during President Clinton's last year in office, France was the only one of 107 countries to refuse to sign a U.S. initiative aimed at encouraging democracy around the world.

The debate over French anti-Americanism centers on this question: Do they hate us because of who we are, or what we do? The French oppose the United States, quite simply, for what it is—the most powerful country on earth.


I'll tell you a little story:

My brother was stationed with the U.S. Army in Germany back in the late 60's. He was invited to participate as an Honor Guard at the funeral of a French resistance fighter in Paris. When his military detail showed up at the cemetery in military dress uniforms, Parisians were standing in line to spit on them....and they were there to pay tribute to a French hero!

I've NEVER met an American who has visited France...myself included....that was not treated rudely JUST because of his or her nationality. I did not see that animosity in Italy, or Spain or Switzerland. I wonder why.

So now our media is portraying the French the way they have ALWAYS portrayed us.....big deal!

But was Iraq war a good example of showing how bad the France goverment was? Becuase it was not just stock up France that opposed that war, but a large percentece of the people of the world. Also remember not even a mayority of the people in your allied countries like the UK or Spain was for the war.

Back in the late sixties you had the situation of the vietnam war and also alot of radical leftist people all over Europe opposing the war, ecpecially in Paris, so it was maybee not the best idea to show up in Paris in American uniformes. Even if the action of those Parisien was extremely stupid. But it was not a good example of the French general liking of the Americans.

Personally I also think that the people of France can see the diffrence between americans and there goverment. Like for example alot of americans was suprised how good there was treated in France then they visited the country during the Iraq war. But yes I also heard that you can be treated rudely, but I think that is mostly in Paris and I think the parisien can be rude to everyone including other french people. Also you most agree that some american can not be the best guests then they visited other countries (but that is of course nothing unique for american tourist).
 
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