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American Community Survey

Imnukingfutz

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OK, I am putting this post in this sub-forum because I have a Constitutional question regarding it.

According to the Constitution, the US Govt. is ordered to enumerate the population every 10 years.
OK, I dont mind being counted by the government every 10 years, it serves many purposes to do so, representation is one of them.

I do, however, have an issue with the American Community Survey. I was one of the lucky ones randomly chosen to "participate" in the survey.
The letter I received 2 weeks ago said it was the address that was chosen and not the people inside it but that I had to complete the survey under penalty of law.

OK...so reading through this I am stunned at the questions they are asking. They are extremely personal and have nothing to do with anything the government needs to know.

Paraphrasing for typing purposes;
What kind of electronics do you have?
How many people use these devices?
What was last months electric bill?
Do you own or rent?
Whom do you pay your mortgage / rent to?
How much is your monthly payment?
Does it include property taxes?
Whats the cost of your personal property?

Personal questions for every person in the home;
Do you have health insurance?
Does this person have mental , physical or emotional problems?
Does this person work?
What time do they leave?
Where is your work? (Physical Address)
Bosses name? Phone number?
Did this person miss any time from work in the last week?
What is this persons income? Weekly, monthly & yearly
How many times has this person been married?
What was your marriage date?
Does this person have grandchildren?

I will oblige the Federal Imperial Government and complete the survey, But I assure you they will not like the answers I give.

My question here is;
We are obligated by the Constitution to allow counting for Census taking purposes every 10 years, but what Constitutional power allows the government to do this when they wish to? After all, the last census was in 2010, only 3 years ago.
 

specklebang

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Have you thought about ignoring it? Thats how I handle these things. Is there something on there that threatens you if you don't do this?


OK, I am putting this post in this sub-forum because I have a Constitutional question regarding it.

According to the Constitution, the US Govt. is ordered to enumerate the population every 10 years.
OK, I dont mind being counted by the government every 10 years, it serves many purposes to do so, representation is one of them.

I do, however, have an issue with the American Community Survey. I was one of the lucky ones randomly chosen to "participate" in the survey.
The letter I received 2 weeks ago said it was the address that was chosen and not the people inside it but that I had to complete the survey under penalty of law.

OK...so reading through this I am stunned at the questions they are asking. They are extremely personal and have nothing to do with anything the government needs to know.

Paraphrasing for typing purposes;
What kind of electronics do you have?
How many people use these devices?
What was last months electric bill?
Do you own or rent?
Whom do you pay your mortgage / rent to?
How much is your monthly payment?
Does it include property taxes?
Whats the cost of your personal property?

Personal questions for every person in the home;
Do you have health insurance?
Does this person have mental , physical or emotional problems?
Does this person work?
What time do they leave?
Where is your work? (Physical Address)
Bosses name? Phone number?
Did this person miss any time from work in the last week?
What is this persons income? Weekly, monthly & yearly
How many times has this person been married?
What was your marriage date?
Does this person have grandchildren?

I will oblige the Federal Imperial Government and complete the survey, But I assure you they will not like the answers I give.

My question here is;
We are obligated by the Constitution to allow counting for Census taking purposes every 10 years, but what Constitutional power allows the government to do this when they wish to? After all, the last census was in 2010, only 3 years ago.
 

Lutherf

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OK, I am putting this post in this sub-forum because I have a Constitutional question regarding it.

According to the Constitution, the US Govt. is ordered to enumerate the population every 10 years.
OK, I dont mind being counted by the government every 10 years, it serves many purposes to do so, representation is one of them.

I do, however, have an issue with the American Community Survey. I was one of the lucky ones randomly chosen to "participate" in the survey.
The letter I received 2 weeks ago said it was the address that was chosen and not the people inside it but that I had to complete the survey under penalty of law.

OK...so reading through this I am stunned at the questions they are asking. They are extremely personal and have nothing to do with anything the government needs to know.

Paraphrasing for typing purposes;
What kind of electronics do you have?
How many people use these devices?
What was last months electric bill?
Do you own or rent?
Whom do you pay your mortgage / rent to?
How much is your monthly payment?
Does it include property taxes?
Whats the cost of your personal property?

Personal questions for every person in the home;
Do you have health insurance?
Does this person have mental , physical or emotional problems?
Does this person work?
What time do they leave?
Where is your work? (Physical Address)
Bosses name? Phone number?
Did this person miss any time from work in the last week?
What is this persons income? Weekly, monthly & yearly
How many times has this person been married?
What was your marriage date?
Does this person have grandchildren?

I will oblige the Federal Imperial Government and complete the survey, But I assure you they will not like the answers I give.

My question here is;
We are obligated by the Constitution to allow counting for Census taking purposes every 10 years, but what Constitutional power allows the government to do this when they wish to? After all, the last census was in 2010, only 3 years ago.
Just type out a little note that says something to the effect of "Please contact the NSA. They probably have better information on this stuff than I do." and mail it back.
 

Imnukingfutz

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Have you thought about ignoring it? Thats how I handle these things. Is there something on there that threatens you if you don't do this?
The law (fines and imprisonment).

If I were at a different point in my life I would dare them to prosecute and I would fight it tooth and nail, but as it is I have younger children and they definitely need their dad around paying attention to them & caring for them rather than fighting the Federal Imperial Government.
 

Imnukingfutz

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Just type out a little note that says something to the effect of "Please contact the NSA. They probably have better information on this stuff than I do." and mail it back.
LOL....sad but true.

There will be a lot of "NOYB" answers.
 

American

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If the NSA were really doing their job, they'd keep my favorite beer stocked up at Costco, cause they know what I like and where I buy it. :shrug:
 

molten_dragon

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OK, I am putting this post in this sub-forum because I have a Constitutional question regarding it.

According to the Constitution, the US Govt. is ordered to enumerate the population every 10 years.
OK, I dont mind being counted by the government every 10 years, it serves many purposes to do so, representation is one of them.

I do, however, have an issue with the American Community Survey. I was one of the lucky ones randomly chosen to "participate" in the survey.
The letter I received 2 weeks ago said it was the address that was chosen and not the people inside it but that I had to complete the survey under penalty of law.

OK...so reading through this I am stunned at the questions they are asking. They are extremely personal and have nothing to do with anything the government needs to know.

Paraphrasing for typing purposes;
What kind of electronics do you have?
How many people use these devices?
What was last months electric bill?
Do you own or rent?
Whom do you pay your mortgage / rent to?
How much is your monthly payment?
Does it include property taxes?
Whats the cost of your personal property?

Personal questions for every person in the home;
Do you have health insurance?
Does this person have mental , physical or emotional problems?
Does this person work?
What time do they leave?
Where is your work? (Physical Address)
Bosses name? Phone number?
Did this person miss any time from work in the last week?
What is this persons income? Weekly, monthly & yearly
How many times has this person been married?
What was your marriage date?
Does this person have grandchildren?

I will oblige the Federal Imperial Government and complete the survey, But I assure you they will not like the answers I give.

My question here is;
We are obligated by the Constitution to allow counting for Census taking purposes every 10 years, but what Constitutional power allows the government to do this when they wish to? After all, the last census was in 2010, only 3 years ago.
They can require you to complete it, but I doubt they can require you to be honest. Just lie to them.

Edit: this is from the Wikipedia entry on the ACS

The Department of Commerce has stated that those who receive a survey form are legally obligated to answer all the questions as accurately as possible. Those who decline to complete the survey may receive follow-up phone calls and/or visits to their homes from Census Bureau personnel. Section 221 of Title 13 U.S.C., makes it a misdemeanor to refuse or willfully neglect to complete the questionnaire or answer questions posed by census takers and imposes a fine of not more than $100. This fine was changed by the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984 from $100 to not more than $5,000. The Census Bureau prefers to gain cooperation by convincing respondents of the importance of participation. To date, no person has ever been charged with a crime for refusing to answer the ACS.
It sounds like you can probably just ignore it, and nothing will happen. You only have a 1/3 chance of anyone even calling you or coming to your house.
 
Last edited:

specklebang

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Are you saying that the document states it is mandatory? What is the wording? Even America should not have fallen so low as to demand this degree of intimate information.

I would not advise you to break the law but I get a lot of Medicare surveys that I have ignored and while they send reminders, ignoring them has yet to get me arrested :) but I'm unfamiliar with this survey.




The law (fines and imprisonment).

If I were at a different point in my life I would dare them to prosecute and I would fight it tooth and nail, but as it is I have younger children and they definitely need their dad around paying attention to them & caring for them rather than fighting the Federal Imperial Government.
 

pinqy

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OK, I am putting this post in this sub-forum because I have a Constitutional question regarding it.

According to the Constitution, the US Govt. is ordered to enumerate the population every 10 years.
OK, I dont mind being counted by the government every 10 years, it serves many purposes to do so, representation is one of them.

I do, however, have an issue with the American Community Survey. I was one of the lucky ones randomly chosen to "participate" in the survey.
The letter I received 2 weeks ago said it was the address that was chosen and not the people inside it but that I had to complete the survey under penalty of law.

OK...so reading through this I am stunned at the questions they are asking. They are extremely personal and have nothing to do with anything the government needs to know.

Paraphrasing for typing purposes;
What kind of electronics do you have?
How many people use these devices?
What was last months electric bill?
Do you own or rent?
Whom do you pay your mortgage / rent to?
How much is your monthly payment?
Does it include property taxes?
Whats the cost of your personal property?

Personal questions for every person in the home;
Do you have health insurance?
Does this person have mental , physical or emotional problems?
Does this person work?
What time do they leave?
Where is your work? (Physical Address)
Bosses name? Phone number?
Did this person miss any time from work in the last week?
What is this persons income? Weekly, monthly & yearly
How many times has this person been married?
What was your marriage date?
Does this person have grandchildren?

I will oblige the Federal Imperial Government and complete the survey, But I assure you they will not like the answers I give.

My question here is;
We are obligated by the Constitution to allow counting for Census taking purposes every 10 years, but what Constitutional power allows the government to do this when they wish to? After all, the last census was in 2010, only 3 years ago.
One clarification...the survey does NOT ask for boss' name or phone number....it asks for employer and work address.

And keep in mind that NONE of this information can be associated or linked with an individual....everything is extremely protected.

As for use of the information: Questions on the form and why we ask – About the Survey – American Community Survey – U.S. Census Bureau
 

Imnukingfutz

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Are you saying that the document states it is mandatory? What is the wording? Even America should not have fallen so low as to demand this degree of intimate information.

I would not advise you to break the law but I get a lot of Medicare surveys that I have ignored and while they send reminders, ignoring them has yet to get me arrested :) but I'm unfamiliar with this survey.
Yes, it did say that completion of the survey is mandatory. The notification letter did not give statute but it did say it must be completed under penalty of law.
 

specklebang

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Well, I won't put up with that. Shall we make a last stand? I'm with you, I'll bring my stun-gun and 3 ninja cats.

Are you sure the USG sent this and not a scammer? That's pretty intense info they are asking for and I've never heard of this before.


Yes, it did say that completion of the survey is mandatory. The notification letter did not give statute but it did say it must be completed under penalty of law.
 

Imnukingfutz

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One clarification...the survey does NOT ask for boss' name or phone number....it asks for employer and work address.

And keep in mind that NONE of this information can be associated or linked with an individual....everything is extremely protected.

As for use of the information: Questions on the form and why we ask – About the Survey – American Community Survey – U.S. Census Bureau
You are incorrect and correct...It asked for address not phone # of the employer...they want my phone number.

question # 42 of the personal information;
For Whom did this person work? That looks like it wants to know your employer / boss' name doesnt it?

How can it NOT be able to be associated to a specific person when it asks for your full name, birth date, race, and contact phone number?
 

Imnukingfutz

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Well, I won't put up with that. Shall we make a last stand? I'm with you, I'll bring my stun-gun and 3 ninja cats.

Are you sure the USG sent this and not a scammer? That's pretty intense info they are asking for and I've never heard of this before.
We got a notification letter in the mail 2 weeks ago, it has all the government seals & 800 #'s etc. Nothing there to make me believe it is a scammer.

Oh just wait until I fill this out. They will swear up and down that some aliens live here.

No, we dont speak English here...we speak Klingon. Do you think Rosetta Stone can teach me that real fast?
 

clownboy

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Are you saying that the document states it is mandatory? What is the wording? Even America should not have fallen so low as to demand this degree of intimate information.

I would not advise you to break the law but I get a lot of Medicare surveys that I have ignored and while they send reminders, ignoring them has yet to get me arrested :) but I'm unfamiliar with this survey.
The survey is indeed mandatory and you are compelled by law to fill it out if sent to you. The fine maximum is $5,000, though no one to date has been fined for refusal. It's part of the Census authority, though I doubt it's at all constitutional as it does not fall during the census period allowed by Constitution.

Here's my advice: fill it out but give them bad data. That's how I treat online advertisers and why I keep getting junkmail that thinks I'm a 45 year old trisexual with no job, five cars and 12 kids.
 

Master PO

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The survey is indeed mandatory and you are compelled by law to fill it out if sent to you. The fine maximum is $5,000, though no one to date has been fined for refusal. It's part of the Census authority, though I doubt it's at all constitutional as it does not fall during the census period allowed by Constitution.

Here's my advice: fill it out but give them bad data. That's how I treat online advertisers and why I keep getting junkmail that thinks I'm a 45 year old trisexual with no job, five cars and 12 kids.
i am not arguing what you have stated, becuase the government uses force against the people all the time.

however from constructional point of view, how can it be compulsory for people to fill out, since in the constitution it places no authority over the people and government has no authority over the people, except pirates counter-fitters and traitors.
 

specklebang

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I'm shocked. Really. That's just crazy to make this be so intrusive.


The survey is indeed mandatory and you are compelled by law to fill it out if sent to you. The fine maximum is $5,000, though no one to date has been fined for refusal. It's part of the Census authority, though I doubt it's at all constitutional as it does not fall during the census period allowed by Constitution.

Here's my advice: fill it out but give them bad data. That's how I treat online advertisers and why I keep getting junkmail that thinks I'm a 45 year old trisexual with no job, five cars and 12 kids.
 

AliHajiSheik

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Just tell them that you already filled out six of these surveys and you still haven't been visited by the Prize Patrol. Which magazines do you offer?
 

LaMidRighter

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Just tell them. There are X people here, we are y race, and the rest is none of your ****ing business.
 

pinqy

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You are incorrect and correct...It asked for address not phone # of the employer...they want my phone number.

question # 42 of the personal information;
For Whom did this person work? That looks like it wants to know your employer / boss' name doesnt it?
No, it looks like it wants the name of the company, especially since it says "Name of company, business, or other employer."

How can it NOT be able to be associated to a specific person when it asks for your full name, birth date, race, and contact phone number?
Because once it's collected, the info is seperated out and all the personal info is put in a seperate file with extremely limited access and justification required for access. The rest of the answers are aggregated into statistical data and anything the could actually identify an individual is edited out.
 

Fisher

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I get these periodically related to my businesses. They can be pretty intrusive.
 

Imnukingfutz

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No, it looks like it wants the name of the company, especially since it says "Name of company, business, or other employer."
or other employer...Pete Malone's Painting Service, Joe Smoe's Plumbing....not all business' are a corporation or LLC or LLP or a DBA...many are sole proprietors. So yes, unless you work for a corporation, LLC or LLP or a DBA you will be giving them your boss' name...


Because once it's collected, the info is seperated out and all the personal info is put in a seperate file with extremely limited access and justification required for access. The rest of the answers are aggregated into statistical data and anything the could actually identify an individual is edited out.
And did we see how our government is collecting & hording data lately? Do you really believe all the personal info you provide in that survey will be separated and not kept? If you do you are naive.
 

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I just received a notice telling me I had an ACS coming and that I was required by law to fill it out. I called the provided number and told them not to bother and that they did not have the constitutional authority to pull crap like this. I told them that if I needed to be the test case, bring it on, I'm not that busy right now. Also told them that they know they're full of hot air as no one who has refused has been fined or prosecuted.

They asked for the ACS number on the form and now we'll see. If I receive the form it will find a quick home in the circular file. Btw, they didn't even ask for my name.
 

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Btw, if you wish to fight this intrusion, or just not answer the ACS, here is the way to respond. Please do not give false answers as I detailed earlier in the thread.
 

head of joaquin

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I just received a notice telling me I had an ACS coming and that I was required by law to fill it out. I called the provided number and told them not to bother and that they did not have the constitutional authority to pull crap like this. I told them that if I needed to be the test case, bring it on, I'm not that busy right now. Also told them that they know they're full of hot air as no one who has refused has been fined or prosecuted.

They asked for the ACS number on the form and now we'll see. If I receive the form it will find a quick home in the circular file. Btw, they didn't even ask for my name.
First of all, why are you attacking the poor clerks who are just doing their jobs?

Second, there are significant fines and penalties for not complying, so get ready to waste a lot of time defending yourself for no good reason.

Third, I got the survey also and it is incredibly obnoxiously intrusive. At first I thought it was a scam. But there it is: it's the law. Title 13 of the Federal Code. If you don't like it, vote out the people who put it into effect. Don't break the law.
 

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It only took a minute for me to fill it out.


What kind of electronics do you have?

The kind that plug into the wall

How many people use these devices?

As many as want to

What was last months electric bill?

Ask my wife. She pays it

Do you own or rent?

Own.

Whom do you pay your mortgage / rent to?

Nobody

How much is your monthly payment?

Zero

Does it include property taxes?

Obviously not

Whats the cost of your personal property?

I don't know. I lost track of it years ago. How about yours?

Personal questions for every person in the home;
Do you have health insurance?

Yes

Does this person have mental , physical or emotional problems?

Yes

Does this person work?

Yes

What time do they leave?

Leave for where?

Where is your work? (Physical Address)

Right here

Bosses name? Phone number?

I work for my customers and the IRS. I don't have all the phone numbers but I will put together a list upon agreement to pay $125 per hour for the work

Did this person miss any time from work in the last week?

No

What is this persons income? Weekly, monthly & yearly

Not nearly enough

How many times has this person been married?

Once

What was your marriage date?

Ask my wife, she keeps track of that stuff

Does this person have grandchildren?

No
 
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