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American Adults Not So Smart

Seems to me the 'smarter' our devices, the dumber we and more lazy we become. JMHO

wall-e.jpg
 
We put a massive financial disincentive between the student and continuing education. Is it any surprise that intellectual development and curiosity are lacking?
 
Generally speaking, the education system in America has not changed over the last 100 years.
So it's no surprise that we're falling behind.

Also, when you consider how many people still want to remove science from science class and replace it with religion.....well....'nuff said there.
 
Ho hum....
 
from OP article

It may be a little different than assumed

"...it's not necessarily that America's kids are getting dumber, or that America's education system is precipitously crumbling. Rather, the study says the age-based drop-off is because proficiency "has risen so much faster in so many other countries across successive generations.""

We're not getting worse, others are just improving faster.
 
This article in The Week magazine points out that not only are
American school students falling behind the rest of the world,
--- but American adults as well.
Any thoughts or comments?
America has fallen way behind in the smarts department - The Week

Comparing USA head-to-head with Finland, for example, make very little sense. Apples to oranges.

I am puzzled, however, by France being consistently at the bottom in all categories, and Korea not being near the top.

http://skills.oecd.org/OECD_Skills_Outlook_2013.pdf

Something must be wrong with their methodology.
 
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Comparing USA head-to-head with Finland, for example, make very little sense. Apples to oranges.

I am puzzled, however, by France being consistently at the bottom in all categories, and Korea not being near the top. Something must be wrong with their methodology.

Meh, I don't put much stock in "people polls". You shouldn't either.
 
Meh, I don't put much stock in "people polls". You shouldn't either.

This is not exactly a "people poll". They have attempted a systematic study with decent sampling. Of course, I have no time to pore through the report and try to figure out whether their methods are valid.

(Treating Finland as an entity equivalent to USA - and not, say, New Hampshire or Minnesota - is not valid most certainly, but that's what the journalist at the Week and Arne Duncan are doing, not the authors of the report).
 
from OP article

It may be a little different than assumed

"...it's not necessarily that America's kids are getting dumber, or that America's education system is precipitously crumbling. Rather, the study says the age-based drop-off is because proficiency "has risen so much faster in so many other countries across successive generations.""

We're not getting worse, others are just improving faster.

Right. If you send your kids to school 15 hours a day, 7 days a week, they get programmed much quicker and more thoroughly. 8)

Who makes up these friggin guidelines?
 
This article in The Week magazine points out that not only are
American school students falling behind the rest of the world,
--- but American adults as well.
Any thoughts or comments?
America has fallen way behind in the smarts department - The Week

Seems to me the 'smarter' our devices, the dumber we and more lazy we become. JMHO

View attachment 67154844
Sadly, yeah. I read that article and concluded something similar.

Very minor example, but if it weren't for the cash register's display, the kids at the counter couldn't give proper change these days. Not only are we becoming dumbed-down, but we're becoming softer too - a conclusion by an author (Daniel Flynn, I believe) who's written a book about recent attacks on the game of football.

Kids are now being taught math with calculators.
My co-worker had to sign a release to let her 8-year old son bring home his school-provided iPad.

And ask an 8th grader to take this test today (heck, I read it and holy cow :) ): Bullitt County History - 1912 School Exam
 
People smarter than you. :laughat:

Actually it seems Finland divides students (after elementary school) into vocational or academic classes, something we no longer do here.

My guess is these stats are based solely on the academic side.
 
Actually it seems Finland divides students (after elementary school) into vocational or academic classes, something we no longer do here.
You could examine the article and/or that article's source material. Then you wouldn't have to guess.
There's a link in the OP. And in the article, there's a link to its source material.

But the article itself offers some description of who was surveyed.
 
And the 500 pound gorilla in the room that what nobody has mentioned is the changing demographics in the USA. The proportion of people from lower intelligence groups such as blacks and Latinos has been steadily on the rise in the US for quite some time now.
 
And the 500 pound gorilla in the room that what nobody has mentioned is the changing demographics in the USA. The proportion of people from lower intelligence groups such as blacks and Latinos has been steadily on the rise in the US for quite some time now.
lol
You realize that the US has not gotten worse despite the "rise" of "lower intelligence groups", yes?
The US has stayed the same while the rest of the world improved.
 
lol
You realize that the US has not gotten worse despite the "rise" of "lower intelligence groups", yes?
Of course that's irrelevant.

The US has stayed the same while the rest of the world improved.
First of all, the stats say nothing about "the rest of the world" because the overwhelming majority of the world wasn't included. Furthermore, to discount the quickly changing demographs in the USA as a cause for a lack of progress is incredibly naive and unscientific.
 
Not surprising.

I went to one of the best public districts in one of the most educated states in the country. I had a class my senior year that was required, so any given class was a random mix of students from my grade.

There were at least 3 of them, in a class of 30-ish, that I would classify as functionally illiterate. They still graduated.

I frequent another forum that is in English, but has a fairly high number of people from other countries, both English-speaking and not. If I see someone who can't seem to spell simple words or use correct grammar, dollars to donuts it's an American.

I tutored in English for a while, both for general students as well a ESOL students. My American students routinely struggled more with simple mechanics, even compared to my ESOL students.

The majority of my own education was at home. In retrospect, my father seemed to be fighting a constant battle to maintain my sense of curiosity despite the onslaught of education, which is mostly built simply to make you stay in line, rather than to teach you anything.

I remember when I brought my class work to my dad one day, and he saw my SQ3R notes. It's basically how they teach you to think, without any actual thinking involved.

He put his head in his hands and said, "Good lord." He was silent for another minute before he said, "Ok. I want you to pretend this isn't a real thing. Just memorize it like a passage out of a fiction book in order to pass your quiz, and then forget it exists. Ok?"

I never realized what a depressing moment that really was until several years later.
 
Of course that's irrelevant.
If there had been a notable decline in our scores, would that have been relevant since it would support your point?

First of all, the stats say nothing about "the rest of the world" because the overwhelming majority of the world wasn't included.
My apologies. I was writing casually. Please amend my earlier comment to apply only to the countries under discussion.

Furthermore, to discount the quickly changing demographs in the USA as a cause for a lack of progress is incredibly naive and unscientific.
If you will note I haven't discounter it yet.
I just pointed to the lack of evidence supporting your assertion.
 
We put a massive financial disincentive between the student and continuing education. Is it any surprise that intellectual development and curiosity are lacking?

The percentage of US adults with at least a BA has nevertheless been rising steadily since the 1960s:

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, 2011


Dragonfly said:
Generally speaking, the education system in America has not changed over the last 100 years.
So it's no surprise that we're falling behind.
I doubt that social promotion existed 100 years ago, and I doubt that modern public schools demand mastery of the basics to anywhere near the degree they did 100 years ago.

Dragonfly said:
Also, when you consider how many people still want to remove science from science class and replace it with religion.....well....'nuff said there.
I doubt the evolution controversy accounts for a significant part of any gap in average intellectual attainment.
 
The percentage of US adults with at least a BA has nevertheless been rising steadily since the 1960s:

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, 2011

that's because it's as essential for good employment as a high school education was 30 years ago.

still, according to your link, we're talking 30 percent. that means seventy percent aren't getting a college degree. like i said, there's a serious financial disincentive.
 
that's because it's as essential for good employment as a high school education was 30 years ago.
If it was only as essential then the graph depicts a positive correlation between cost and graduation rates, rather than the expected negative correlation. That is, more people rather than less are graduating despite cost increases.



still, according to your link, we're talking 30 percent. that means seventy percent aren't getting a college degree. like i said, there's a serious financial disincentive.
34%-66%

The following cite puts it at 41% as of 9/2011:

Washington Post: U.S. falls in global ranking of young adults who finish college

On the surface it looks like something is seriously wrong with US performance because it is so far behind the world leader, Korea, which has a 63% graduation rate- 50% more than the US. However, highly wired and industrialized Korea has a yearly surplus of 50,000 college graduates, so we are far from straightening out all the numbers and issues here:

Financial Times: South Korea pays heavy price for education

(from link):
South Korea, however, is top of the league table when it comes to producing too many over-educated workers. The number of college graduates in excess of the job market’s demand is estimated at about 50,000 a year, compared with an annual supply shortfall of more than 30,000 high school graduates, according to the labour ministry.
 
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If it was only as essential then the graph depicts a positive correlation between cost and graduation rates, rather than the expected negative correlation. That is, more people rather than less are graduating despite cost increases.

that's because there is a lot more pressure to get a degree, since it's much harder to get a job without one. the factory jobs are gone, and there's no industry waiting to absorb non-college graduates. many more would probably elect to go to school if the mountain of debt incurred was not a factor.


34%-66%

The following cite puts it at 41% as of 9/2011:

Washington Post: U.S. falls in global ranking of young adults who finish college

On the surface it looks like something is seriously wrong with US performance because it is so far behind the world leader, Korea, which has a 63% graduation rate- 50% more than the US. However, highly wired and industrialized Korea has a yearly surplus of 50,000 college graduates, so we are far from straightening out all the numbers and issues here:

Financial Times: South Korea pays heavy price for education

(from link):

no nation pays "a heavy price" for education. there is no "surplus" when it comes to intellectual development. that's like saying that we had better not lower the cost of gym membership, because then too many people will be in shape.

college isn't just for access to the labor market; continuing education is weightlifting for the mind, and we all benefit from that. we're on the cusp of some serious problems, and we need as deep of an intellectual pool as we can produce to solve these problems. if a lot of the kids are saying "**** this, i'm not going thirty grand in the hole," then that does not bode well for America.
 
that's because there is a lot more pressure to get a degree, since it's much harder to get a job without one. the factory jobs are gone, and there's no industry waiting to absorb non-college graduates. many more would probably elect to go to school if the mountain of debt incurred was not a factor.
Although that position is plausible and intuititive, it is not reflected in the data I cited.



no nation pays "a heavy price" for education. there is no "surplus" when it comes to intellectual development.
The Korean Labor Department is better placed than we are to comment on the economic effect of Korean college graduation levels. It says that from an economic standpoint there is a large college enrollment surplus whose economic effect is about 1-2% value subtracted per year. (I think that’s right- link is now behind pay wall).



that's like saying that we had better not lower the cost of gym membership, because then too many people will be in shape.
The analogy is unsuccessful because a high level of fitness can be attained without going to the time and expense of gym membership.

Also, very high levels of fitness are not necessary for good health. It is not necessary to run 10 miles a day and do 500 push-ups (in several sets for most people, of course) to be as fit as you need to be. 1 mile running plus 2 miles walking plus 50 push-ups will get the job done.



college isn't just for access to the labor market; continuing education is weightlifting for the mind, and we all benefit from that.
Good book-reading habits can provide abundant private-life intellectual stimulation.



we're on the cusp of some serious problems, and we need as deep of an intellectual pool as we
can produce to solve these problems. if a lot of the kids are saying "**** this, I’m not going thirty grand in the hole," then that does not bode well for America.
Sadly it can be several times $30k.

I think it is likely that cost deterrence occurs. If it does it the effect should be measurable, and those who want to make the case for deterrence are the ones who need to locate and cite the data.
 
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