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America: The land of the pompous

Napoleon's Nightingale said:
What an exageration. Paris is not burning..there have been som isolated incidents of buildings being burned but it's primarily cars. If you want to talk about in-equality, anti-everything non christian, and descrimination built into the law you should look at the U.S. Yes, the U.S. where politicians are owned by corporations and bullied by Jesse Jackson, the NAACP, and the Black Panthers who incite riots in LA, Cincinnati, and Toledo for days on end. The U.S. appeased the fools in Cincinnati and now the city is bankrupt. I'd say France is supperior by far.

Tell that to your minority population who you bigoted French seperate, degrade, and don't hire.

That is a matter of opinion.


No no it's not.

What exactly has America invented independant of foreign consultation and backing? Oh yeah! Peanut butter. I noticed that you cassually left out a whole slew of essential inventions of the French. I'll take that as a concession.

Uh, the airplane, automobile, the assembly line, and nuclear reactors, moon Appollo class rockets, Space Shuttle, Personal Computer, and if I'm not mistaken the T.V..



You're a real moron. Our troops were sent to France where they were trained, supplied, and commanded by the French. The leading general of the American forces complained about the fact that next to 0 of them had ever been trained before being shipped off to the war. Ever hear of Ferdinand Foch?

Are officers sure as hell were ever hear of West Point?

Macarthur - http://members.tripod.com/~DARTO/macarthur/macarthur.html

Patton - http://www.generalpatton.org/education/lesson_plans/Patton_timeline.pdf


There's a long list of French men and women you should be thanking.


Name one.



The population of France did not support the Vichi government and there was an active force working against it. France was the first nation to welcome the jews into their country with open arms under Napoleon. You owe the French everything..they gave you your freedoms..not Washington not any of the founding fathers. You need to get a clue and pick up a book. By the way, stop being an intillectual coward and post what you have to say instead of pulling that quote ....... crap.

Bullshit, Bullshit, and yep more Bullshit, and nah.

. . . . . . . . .. . .....
 
Liberal_5000 said:
Give me a break, the French culture is far more superior to both the US and Canada.
She wasn't fighting equality, and representation, if she had been you Americans never would have had a revolution! Unless you just felt like giving your superiors a run for their money.
And who cares if Da Vinci thought of it. The french made it happen! Almost every invention was previously thought of.
Oh yeah, I'm SURE a nation with not even two centuries under its belt had SUCH a better military than a country with roughly eight!
Sure, some french colaborated with the Nazis.... and then they were beaten, and shaved of all body hair when France was liberated. America actually had Nazi camps and a Nazi party! There were over five hundred Nazi youths in the city of New York alone! Not to mention the ten thousand active members of the party itself

The Complete Military History of France

We are still accepting submissions from history researchers.
Last update: May 4, 2005.

- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

- The Dutch War
- Tied

- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."



With only an hour and a half of research, Jonathan Duczkowski provided the following losses:

Norse invasions, 841-911.
After having their way with the French for 70 years, the Norse are bribed by a French King named Charles the Simple (really!) who gave them Normandy in return for peace. Normans proceed to become just about the only positive military bonus in France's [favour] for next 500 years.

Mexico, 1863-1864.
France attempts to take advantage of Mexico's weakness following its thorough thrashing by the U.S. 20 years earlier ("Halls of Montezuma"). Not surprisingly, the only unit to distinguish itself is the French Foreign Legion (consisting of, by definition, non-Frenchmen). Booted out of the country a little over a year after arrival.

Panama jungles 1881-1890.
No one but nature to fight, France still loses; canal is eventually built by the U.S. 1904-1914.

Napoleonic Wars.
Should be noted that the Grand Armee was largely (~%50) composed of non-Frenchmen after 1804 or so. Mainly disgruntled minorities and anti-monarchists. Not surprisingly, these performed better than the French on many occasions.

Haiti, 1791-1804.
French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare; when in doubt, send an ally.

India, 1673-1813.
British were far more charming then French, ended up victors. Therefore the British are well known for their tea, and the French for their whine (er, wine...). Ensures 200 years of bad teeth in England.

Barbary Wars, middle ages-1830.
Pirates in North Africa continually harass European shipping in Meditteranean. France's solution: pay them to leave us alone. America's solution: kick their asses ("the Shores of Tripoli"). [America's] first overseas victories, won 1801-1815.

1798-1801, Quasi-War with U.S.
French privateers (semi-legal pirates) attack U.S. shipping. U.S. fights France at sea for 3 years; French eventually cave; sets precedent for next 200 years of Franco-American relations.

Moors in Spain, late 700s-early 800s.
Even with Charlemagne leading them against an enemy living in a hostile land, French are unable to make much progress. Hide behind Pyrennes until the modern day.

French-on-French losses (probably should be counted as victories too, just to be fair):

1208: Albigenses Crusade, French massacared by French.
When asked how to differentiate a heretic from the faithful, response was "Kill them all. God will know His own." Lesson: French are badasses when fighting unarmed men, women and children.

St. Bartholomew Day Massacre, August 24, 1572.
Once again, French-on-French slaughter.

Third Crusade.
Philip Augustus of France throws hissy-fit, leaves Crusade for Richard the Lion Heart to finish.

Seventh Crusade.
St. Louis of France leads Crusade to Egypt. Resoundingly crushed.

[Eighth] Crusade.
St. Louis back in action, this time in Tunis. See Seventh Crusade.

Also should be noted that France attempted to hide behind the Maginot line, sticking their head in the sand and pretending that the Germans would enter France that way. By doing so, the Germans would have been breaking with their traditional route of invading France, entering through Belgium (Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, World War I, etc.). French ignored this though, and put all their effort into these defenses.

Thomas Whiteley has submitted this addition to me:

Seven year War 1756-1763
Lost: after getting hammered by Frederick the Great of Prussia (yep, the Germans again) at Rossbach, the French were held off for the remainder of the War by Frederick of Brunswick and a hodge-podge army including some Brits. War also saw France kicked out of Canada (Wolfe at Quebec) and India (Clive at Plassey).

Richard Mann, an American in France wants to add the following:

The French consider the departure of the French from Algeria in 1962-63, after 130 years on colonialism, as a French victory and especially consider C. de Gaulle as a hero for 'leading' said victory over the unwilling French public who were very much against the departure. This ended their colonialism. About 2 million ungrateful Algerians lost their lives in this shoddy affair.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html
 
Petition to continue under new thread entitled "France: land of the pompous" in funny psudoeuropean lispy thing. Le'thnoogins.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Tell that to your minority population who you bigoted French seperate, degrade, and don't hire.


First of all I'm not French and the muslims in France seperated themselves. America does those things to homosexuals and did the same thing and worse to blacks for more than a hundred years after the civilized world abolished slavery so I don't see where you're going with it.


Trajan Octavian Titus said:
No no it's not.

Yes yes it is.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Uh, the airplane, automobile, the assembly line, and nuclear reactors, moon Appollo class rockets, Space Shuttle, Personal Computer, and if I'm not mistaken the T.V.

Airplane - thought up by Leonardo da Vinci and the Wright brothers consulted with a Frenchman by the name of Octave Chanute and copied designs and ideas from people like Otto Lilienthal and Sir George Cayley.

Automobile - Leonardo da Vinci thought up the automobile and a German by the name of Karl Friedrich Benz invented the first gasoline powered automobile but technically a frenchman by the name of Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot invented the first automobile in 1769.

The assembly line - American.

Nuclear reactors - An italian by the name of Enrico Fermi invented the first Nuclear reactor.

Apollo rockets - The Chineese invented the first known rockets and Sir Issak Newton devised the laws of Motion which are essential to rocketry. The apollo rockets were the result of international consultation and research.

Space shuttle - Not really. The Russians technically invented the first space shuttle. The U.S. just made it bigger and more efficient.

Personal computer - American.

T.V. - A german by the name of Paul Gottlieb Nipkow thought up and patented the first television.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Are officers sure as hell were ever hear of West Point?

As I said, next to 0 of the troops were trained before being sent off to war and the officers don't count for two reasons: 1. They don't fight 2. They were under French command for most of the war.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Name one.

Pierre-Augustin Caron de Beaumarchais
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
The Complete Military History of France

We are still accepting submissions from history researchers.
Last update: May 4, 2005.

- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

- The Dutch War
- Tied

- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."



With only an hour and a half of research, Jonathan Duczkowski provided the following losses:

Norse invasions, 841-911.
After having their way with the French for 70 years, the Norse are bribed by a French King named Charles the Simple (really!) who gave them Normandy in return for peace. Normans proceed to become just about the only positive military bonus in France's [favour] for next 500 years.

Mexico, 1863-1864.
France attempts to take advantage of Mexico's weakness following its thorough thrashing by the U.S. 20 years earlier ("Halls of Montezuma"). Not surprisingly, the only unit to distinguish itself is the French Foreign Legion (consisting of, by definition, non-Frenchmen). Booted out of the country a little over a year after arrival.

Panama jungles 1881-1890.
No one but nature to fight, France still loses; canal is eventually built by the U.S. 1904-1914.

Napoleonic Wars.
Should be noted that the Grand Armee was largely (~%50) composed of non-Frenchmen after 1804 or so. Mainly disgruntled minorities and anti-monarchists. Not surprisingly, these performed better than the French on many occasions.

Haiti, 1791-1804.
French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare; when in doubt, send an ally.

India, 1673-1813.
British were far more charming then French, ended up victors. Therefore the British are well known for their tea, and the French for their whine (er, wine...). Ensures 200 years of bad teeth in England.

Barbary Wars, middle ages-1830.
Pirates in North Africa continually harass European shipping in Meditteranean. France's solution: pay them to leave us alone. America's solution: kick their asses ("the Shores of Tripoli"). [America's] first overseas victories, won 1801-1815.

1798-1801, Quasi-War with U.S.
French privateers (semi-legal pirates) attack U.S. shipping. U.S. fights France at sea for 3 years; French eventually cave; sets precedent for next 200 years of Franco-American relations.

Moors in Spain, late 700s-early 800s.
Even with Charlemagne leading them against an enemy living in a hostile land, French are unable to make much progress. Hide behind Pyrennes until the modern day.

French-on-French losses (probably should be counted as victories too, just to be fair):

1208: Albigenses Crusade, French massacared by French.
When asked how to differentiate a heretic from the faithful, response was "Kill them all. God will know His own." Lesson: French are badasses when fighting unarmed men, women and children.

St. Bartholomew Day Massacre, August 24, 1572.
Once again, French-on-French slaughter.

Third Crusade.
Philip Augustus of France throws hissy-fit, leaves Crusade for Richard the Lion Heart to finish.

Seventh Crusade.
St. Louis of France leads Crusade to Egypt. Resoundingly crushed.

[Eighth] Crusade.
St. Louis back in action, this time in Tunis. See Seventh Crusade.

Also should be noted that France attempted to hide behind the Maginot line, sticking their head in the sand and pretending that the Germans would enter France that way. By doing so, the Germans would have been breaking with their traditional route of invading France, entering through Belgium (Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, World War I, etc.). French ignored this though, and put all their effort into these defenses.

Thomas Whiteley has submitted this addition to me:

Seven year War 1756-1763
Lost: after getting hammered by Frederick the Great of Prussia (yep, the Germans again) at Rossbach, the French were held off for the remainder of the War by Frederick of Brunswick and a hodge-podge army including some Brits. War also saw France kicked out of Canada (Wolfe at Quebec) and India (Clive at Plassey).

Richard Mann, an American in France wants to add the following:

The French consider the departure of the French from Algeria in 1962-63, after 130 years on colonialism, as a French victory and especially consider C. de Gaulle as a hero for 'leading' said victory over the unwilling French public who were very much against the departure. This ended their colonialism. About 2 million ungrateful Algerians lost their lives in this shoddy affair.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

I think your source is bogus, France did not lose the thirthy years war, thats one thing i know from just looking at your list. Who knows how many other errors it got.
 
Herophant said:
I think your source is bogus, France did not lose the thirthy years war, thats one thing i know from just looking at your list. Who knows how many other errors it got.

That one he's right about, it was another tie. Westphalia style.
 
Like hell it was a tie. It was NOT a tie. France defeated Spain, Austria, and Germany. The French victory at the Battle of Rocroi is what forced the powers into a treaty.
 
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Like hell it was a tie. It was NOT a tie. France defeated Spain, Austria, and Germany. The French victory at the Battle of Rocroi is what forced the powers into a treaty.

A treaty which gave land to France, and broke the power of Germany for a couple of hundred years i might add, hardly a tie..... However the french-spanish conflict didnt end with the peace of Westhpalia if i remember right.
 
I had no idea that French arrogance could so easily be transported into an American brain. France is not the only country with innovative citizens who had a thought or two, or actually invented something. And to say that the USA would not have existed without France is utterly stupid. The hardest thing to kill is an idea whose time has come, and it was our time. The French assisted, and that is all. It would have happened anyway.
French weaponry was BAD, even worse the British had some good weapons but were not going to let a bunch of damn Americans use them, so a lot of our WWI troops started using captured German weapons. Not to mention that our own government had the BAR but only allowed a very few of them to be used.
BTW, if the French invented interchangeable parts, why didn't they use that technology on their weapons?
History channel provides this info....
http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=300001104&messageID=600041428&start=0


Of all the machineguns of the time period, the Chauchat was one the French would not give its own troops, but willingly gave to the US troops and cost many of our soldiers lives.

Amazingly the U.S. had the BAR and didn't issue it to the troops because of the fear that it would fall into enemy hands. Thus they ended up with that piece of garbage Chauchat! No wonder the French are so inept at winning wars look what they manufature for weapons. The thing had a magazine clip that was open faced to allow the shooter to see how many rounds he had left. Of course in combat it filled with dirt and mud.
 
UtahBill said:
And to say that the USA would not have existed without France is utterly stupid. The hardest thing to kill is an idea whose time has come, and it was our time. The French assisted, and that is all. It would have happened anyway.

*Scoff* So excluding all of the other aid the French provided what exactly would the colonists have used to fight the British? Without regular supplies from the French the colonists would have been throwing dirt clods and tea bags at british troops wielding muskets. You also ignore the fact that before the French began arriving we had lost every major city from Maine to Georgia including the capital and there was no possible victory unless a major world power stepped in to tip the balance. Ideas are one thing..the meat and potatos to back them up are quite another. If a revolutionary idea has no supportive substance and a military to back it up then it will never get off the ground. You might also want to explain how we would have trapped Cornwallis wihtout the French Navy. You should also explain how our troops would know what the heck they were doing without the training provided by the French and a Polish aristocrat. You should also explain how the Continental Congress would have financed the war without a steady income from France. Etc etc ad infinitum.

UtahBill said:
French weaponry was BAD, even worse the British had some good weapons but were not going to let a bunch of damn Americans use them, so a lot of our WWI troops started using captured German weapons. Not to mention that our own government had the BAR but only allowed a very few of them to be used.
BTW, if the French invented interchangeable parts, why didn't they use that technology on their weapons?
History channel provides this info....
http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=300001104&messageID=600041428&start=0

There are many reasons for this. First of all, the Germans were richer in monies, resources, and manpower from the start. The Germans also had supperior artillery. By the time we entered the war the French had gone bankrupt and had lost a good chunk of their army and the Chauchat was cheap and fast to produce. The French had superior tactics and the Germans had superior weaponry..even so the French managed to force the Germans into retreat at the First Battle of Marne and held them in stalemate until American troops arrived. Then of course there was the problem with the British..they were allys on paper but the British weren't really helpful until later in the war. The French had to drag them kicking and screaming to the First Battle of Marne because the British wanted to take a sprint back to the French Coast to the ports on the English Channel so they could scurry back to England. The problem with the U.S. is that in every war we wait until the world powers beat eachother to a pulp before entering the war..we do it to make ourselves seem omnipotent and superior when in fact we were no better or worse than anyone else who took part in the war....except Italy lol. They needed fast and cheap production to keep the Germans in stalemate so they pretty much had their hands tied on the issue.

P.S. The French did invent interchangeable parts...more specifically Honoré Blanc who also made the first musket made entirely out of interchangeable parts.

UtahBill said:
Of all the machineguns of the time period, the Chauchat was one the French would not give its own troops, but willingly gave to the US troops and cost many of our soldiers lives.

By the way, the French were using the Chauchat in WW1 but they didn't invent it, the Hungarians did and shouldn't the U.S. be the one responsible for supplying it's own troops? How kind of the U.S. to sap up the resources the French had left and complain about it :roll:


UtahBill said:
Amazingly the U.S. had the BAR and didn't issue it to the troops because of the fear that it would fall into enemy hands. Thus they ended up with that piece of garbage Chauchat! No wonder the French are so inept at winning wars look what they manufature for weapons. The thing had a magazine clip that was open faced to allow the shooter to see how many rounds he had left. Of course in combat it filled with dirt and mud.

Yes, it is amazing that the U.S. refused to supply it's own troops. The French had to use the Chauchat because it was cheap and fast..if they wanted France to remain French they had to produce it.
 
Well, in the USA, we are reluctant to get into other people's fights, or at least we were until recently. To jump into a war on the other side of the world without public support is dangerous politically.
We had hoped that the French could bail themselves out, but their reserve forces were held back where they were too busy drinking wine and chasing skirts to make a good effort in thier own behalf.
And in our revolution, the French held back until they were pretty sure that the war was going our way. No sense investing scarce resources on the losing side. They wanted to be on the winning side, and did not want to further **** off the British. They have a history with the Brits, you know. A sad history of getting their butts kicked. Even Napoleon fell to a Brit.

The chauchat machine gun was manufactured in France, again by drinking, sex obsessed french workers. It was a bad design, and they knew it. All it took was one smart frenchman to take that design and improve on it before making it. Where was that smart guy? And quality control was so bad that you could not count on using one as parts for another. Surely some bureaucrat got a big kickback on the deal.

We would have eventually kicked British butt during our revolutionary war, same as the Vietnamese kicked French and then American butts. It is hard to fight a war half a world away when your heart isn't in it, and the enemy has little to lose. It doesn't help any that our politicians get too involved in wartime strategy either.
 
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The Veitnamise had aid from two of the world's great super powers! Without China and the Soviets they would have been eliminated. Just like you would have been. The Brits would have eliminated you!
 
UtahBill said:
Well, in the USA, we are reluctant to get into other people's fights, or at least we were until recently. To jump into a war on the other side of the world without public support is dangerous politically.

Don't even start. WW1 was just as much our war as it was for the French. The Germans had been sinking our merchant vessels for over a year and the sinking of one of our cruise liners was the straw that broke the camels back.

UtahBill said:
And in our revolution, the French held back until they were pretty sure that the war was going our way. No sense investing scarce resources on the losing side. They wanted to be on the winning side, and did not want to further **** off the British.

Thats total bs. The majority of the significant French players in our revolution began ariving more than 4 years before Louis made it official policy.

UtahBill said:
The chauchat machine gun was manufactured in France, again by drinking, sex obsessed french workers. It was a bad design, and they knew it. All it took was one smart frenchman to take that design and improve on it before making it. Where was that smart guy? And quality control was so bad that you could not count on using one as parts for another. Surely some bureaucrat got a big kickback on the deal.

You're an imbecil. The Hungarians introduced the Chauchat into WW1. The French required cheap and fast production for the war because they had gone bankrupt and were short of munitions on the key battlefields.

UtahBill said:
We would have eventually kicked British butt during our revolutionary war, same as the Vietnamese kicked French and then American butts. It is hard to fight a war half a world away when your heart isn't in it, and the enemy has little to lose. It doesn't help any that our politicians get too involved in wartime strategy either.

Thats a bunch of nationalistic crap. The British would have embargoed the colonies. You failed to answer ALL of the questions I posed. Britain was the world superpower and the colonies were nothing without the British until France came into the pucture.
 
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
*Scoff* So excluding all of the other aid the French provided what exactly would the colonists have used to fight the British? Without regular supplies from the French the colonists would have been throwing dirt clods and tea bags at british troops wielding muskets. You also ignore the fact that before the French began arriving we had lost every major city from Maine to Georgia including the capital and there was no possible victory unless a major world power stepped in to tip the balance. Ideas are one thing..the meat and potatos to back them up are quite another. If a revolutionary idea has no supportive substance and a military to back it up then it will never get off the ground. You might also want to explain how we would have trapped Cornwallis wihtout the French Navy. You should also explain how our troops would know what the heck they were doing without the training provided by the French and a Polish aristocrat. You should also explain how the Continental Congress would have financed the war without a steady income from France. Etc etc ad infinitum.



There are many reasons for this. First of all, the Germans were richer in monies, resources, and manpower from the start. The Germans also had supperior artillery. By the time we entered the war the French had gone bankrupt and had lost a good chunk of their army and the Chauchat was cheap and fast to produce. The French had superior tactics and the Germans had superior weaponry..even so the French managed to force the Germans into retreat at the First Battle of Marne and held them in stalemate until American troops arrived. Then of course there was the problem with the British..they were allys on paper but the British weren't really helpful until later in the war. The French had to drag them kicking and screaming to the First Battle of Marne because the British wanted to take a sprint back to the French Coast to the ports on the English Channel so they could scurry back to England. The problem with the U.S. is that in every war we wait until the world powers beat eachother to a pulp before entering the war..we do it to make ourselves seem omnipotent and superior when in fact we were no better or worse than anyone else who took part in the war....except Italy lol. They needed fast and cheap production to keep the Germans in stalemate so they pretty much had their hands tied on the issue.

P.S. The French did invent interchangeable parts...more specifically Honoré Blanc who also made the first musket made entirely out of interchangeable parts.



By the way, the French were using the Chauchat in WW1 but they didn't invent it, the Hungarians did and shouldn't the U.S. be the one responsible for supplying it's own troops? How kind of the U.S. to sap up the resources the French had left and complain about it :roll:

Oh my god your complaining about the U.S. entering your war to save your ass??? God I hate Europeans.



Yes, it is amazing that the U.S. refused to supply it's own troops. The French had to use the Chauchat because it was cheap and fast..if they wanted France to remain French they had to produce it.


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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Don't even start. WW1 was just as much our war as it was for the French. The Germans had been sinking our merchant vessels for over a year and the sinking of one of our cruise liners was the straw that broke the camels back.
Thats total bs. The majority of the significant French players in our revolution began ariving more than 4 years before Louis made it official policy.
You're an imbecil. The Hungarians introduced the Chauchat into WW1. The French required cheap and fast production for the war because they had gone bankrupt and were short of munitions on the key battlefields.
Thats a bunch of nationalistic crap. The British would have embargoed the colonies. You failed to answer ALL of the questions I posed. Britain was the world superpower and the colonies were nothing without the British until France came into the pucture.

What good does it do to answer your questions when you come back with BS and lies that directly conflict with recorded history. You sound like AI.
Who are the significant French (an oxymoron, by the way) you are talking about. And exactly when did large sums of money start coming to the USA from France?
 
I'll help you out here, 1778, 3 years after the fighting started, and don't forget the Dutch and Spanish who joined the french in fighting against the British, but for their own reasons. It was a sort of mini world war at the time.
So, thanks, France for helping us out, but you have been more than repaid since we helped you with the Germans twice.
 
Quite frankly, America does not have the best history when it comes to conflicts, but it can't be compared to France since it's still a child compared to the land of Charlemaign.

American Revolution- The only war without fault in American history

War of 1812- The united states goes to war on the bogus claim that Britain has taken over 5,000 Americans from American ships. When in reality, 2/3Rd's of them are actually British deserters. And roughly half of the remainder is taken by the French. And America just "happens" to go to war with Britain for this "Atrocity" when Britain is absorbed in fighting Napoleon.

War With Mexico- A completely unprecedented war. Americans simply moved into Mexico and within a decade started a revolution for no reason whatsoever. And then the American government decides it wants a cut from the deal and invades California and absorbs Texas into the Union.

Civil War- This time it is only the southern Americans who are at fault in refusing to give up their slaves.

Spanish War- Once again, America goes to war over a destroyed ship, which it claims was blown up by spanyards when in reality it was most likely sunk by a Cuban. And isn't it convient that the Americans get a nice little colony out of the deal?

World War 1- America decides it wants to wait until the Germans are almost depleated, then it decides to join the fray by sending some troops over to France and having the French equip them from thier already broke economy.

World War 2- Once again, America waits two years while Hitler goes on a rampage across Europe, and turns a deaf ear torwards the "Jewish Veterans" who try to tell them of the war crimes the Nazis are commiting.

Korean War- America does alright... until they decide to cross the Yalu River and provoke the Chinese.

Vietnamese War- Completley idiodic. The Viet-Cong were even stronger than when France had fought them and yet the Americans thought that they could do it, AGAINST THEIR PEOPLE'S WISHES!

Middle Eastern Wars- These cannot truly be counted as wars in my oppinion because they were more one sided blood baths than anything else. However the Afghan war was provoked by an incredible crime against humanity, so it flies.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
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Excuse me, could you PLEASE refrain from the use of terse words here? I think everyone participating in this debate is above that.
 
UtahBill said:
Who are the significant French (an oxymoron, by the way) you are talking about. And exactly when did large sums of money start coming to the USA from France?

Time for you to have a history lesson.

1. Barazer de Kermorvan
2. Chevalier de Chastellux
3. Michel Capitaine du Chesnoy
4. Pierre Colomb
5. Marquis Denis-Jean Florimond de Langlois Du Bouchet
6. Charles-Francois Du Buysson des Aix
7. Pierre-Etienne Du Ponceau
8. Pierre Landais
9. Thomas-Antoine de Maudit du Plessis
10. Charles-Albert de More de Pontgibaud
11. Philippe-Hubert de Preudhomme de Borre
12. Louis des Hayes de La Radiere
13. Pierre Charles L'Enfant
14. Jean-Louis-Ambroise de Genton de Villefranche
15. Francois-Jean de Beauvoir Chastellux
16. Gilles-Jean-Marie-Rolland Barazer de Kermovan
17. Pierre-Francois Vernier
18. Philippe Charles Jean Baptiste Tronson de Coudray
19. Jean Baptiste Joseph
20. Jean Baptiste Gouvion
21. Jean-Joseph Sourbader de Gimat
22. Denis-Jean Florimond de Langlois
23. Marquis Armand-Charles de Tuffin La Rouerie
24. Francois-Louis Teissedre de Fleury
25. Marquis de Lafayette
26. Comte Charles Henri d'Estaing
27. Jacques Michel Verge-Franceschi
28. Comte de Grasse
29. Comte Charles Gravier de Vergennes
30. Jacques-Donatien Le Ray
31. Pierre-Augustin Caron de Beaumarchais

It's a very very long list..shall I go on?

UtahBill said:
And exactly when did large sums of money start coming to the USA from France?

1776. Most of the monies were gifts from French aristocrats to aid in the revolution after the continental congress' currency made a crater in the floor. The money given by French merchants who also happened to be default aristocrats like Beaumarchais were loans. Though Beaumarchais never charged for his substantial donations of firearms, gun powder, and cannons. Then of course the monarchy finally stepped in and loaned the continental congress money in 1781.
 
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Time for you to have a history lesson.

1. Barazer de Kermorvan
2. Chevalier de Chastellux
3. Michel Capitaine du Chesnoy
4. Pierre Colomb
5. Marquis Denis-Jean Florimond de Langlois Du Bouchet
6. Charles-Francois Du Buysson des Aix
7. Pierre-Etienne Du Ponceau
8. Pierre Landais
9. Thomas-Antoine de Maudit du Plessis
10. Charles-Albert de More de Pontgibaud
11. Philippe-Hubert de Preudhomme de Borre
12. Louis des Hayes de La Radiere
13. Pierre Charles L'Enfant
14. Jean-Louis-Ambroise de Genton de Villefranche
15. Francois-Jean de Beauvoir Chastellux
16. Gilles-Jean-Marie-Rolland Barazer de Kermovan
17. Pierre-Francois Vernier
18. Philippe Charles Jean Baptiste Tronson de Coudray
19. Jean Baptiste Joseph
20. Jean Baptiste Gouvion
21. Jean-Joseph Sourbader de Gimat
22. Denis-Jean Florimond de Langlois
23. Marquis Armand-Charles de Tuffin La Rouerie
24. Francois-Louis Teissedre de Fleury
25. Marquis de Lafayette
26. Comte Charles Henri d'Estaing
27. Jacques Michel Verge-Franceschi
28. Comte de Grasse
29. Comte Charles Gravier de Vergennes
30. Jacques-Donatien Le Ray
31. Pierre-Augustin Caron de Beaumarchais

It's a very very long list..shall I go on?
I am sure it was a lot of money as well....and I am sure those names are significant to French historians, but not to Americans.
The money was not given because the French loved the USA, but because they hated the British and wanted to see them fail. France and England had just fought the 7 years war. Who won that? The Spanish got back Florida for their support. The Dutch, according to my source, just wanted to see the Brits knocked off their "world power" pedestal a bit.
Americans were being heavily taxed to help pay for British expenses in the 7 year war, so feelings were high there. It was inevitable that we would revolt. The British empire has fallen even more so since we got out from under their yoke.
Say, you guys aren't stilled pissed off over the Louisian purchase, are you?Cause you got rooked on that one....:3oops:
 
UtahBill said:
I am sure it was a lot of money as well....and I am sure those names are significant to French historians, but not to Americans.
The money was not given because the French loved the USA, but because they hated the British and wanted to see them fail. France and England had just fought the 7 years war. Who won that? The Spanish got back Florida for their support. The Dutch, according to my source, just wanted to see the Brits knocked off their "world power" pedestal a bit.
Americans were being heavily taxed to help pay for British expenses in the 7 year war, so feelings were high there. It was inevitable that we would revolt. The British empire has fallen even more so since we got out from under their yoke.
Say, you guys aren't stilled pissed off over the Louisian purchase, are you?Cause you got rooked on that one....:3oops:

Here's a frenchwoman you should know, IRENE CURIE! two-time nobel prize winner!
 
Liberal_5000 said:
Here's a frenchwoman you should know, IRENE CURIE! two-time nobel prize winner!
Yes, smart lady, great contributions to science, but I suppose now you will tell me that without her we would have never discovered nuclear power, nuclear weapons, etc.?
Point is, there are lots of contributors to most any effort.
 
UtahBill said:
I am sure it was a lot of money as well....and I am sure those names are significant to French historians, but not to Americans.

I figured you'd run from the facts and I was right.

UtahBill said:
The money was not given because the French loved the USA, but because they hated the British and wanted to see them fail.

The monarchy did but all of those names on that list didn't joined to give the British a black eye. Most of them were too young to have ever experianced a war with the British and all of them took part in their own revolution and were doing so while fighting ours.

UtahBill said:
France and England had just fought the 7 years war. Who won that? The Spanish got back Florida for their support. The Dutch, according to my source, just wanted to see the Brits knocked off their "world power" pedestal a bit.

You clearly have no clue as to why the 7 years war was fought and who took part. Spain lost Florida and the Dutch were neutral until some of their forces were attacked in India.

UtahBill said:
Americans were being heavily taxed to help pay for British expenses in the 7 year war, so feelings were high there. It was inevitable that we would revolt. The British empire has fallen even more so since we got out from under their yoke.

I didn't say we never would have revolted..I said we never would have won and thats the cold hard truth of the matter. You failed to adress the basic questions I proposed.

UtahBill said:
Say, you guys aren't stilled pissed off over the Louisian purchase, are you?Cause you got rooked on that one....:3oops:

I've already said this about a dozen times..I'm not French. By the way, Napoleon is the one who picked that price..he didn't get "rooked".
 
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
I figured you'd run from the facts and I was right.

You figured wrong, cause you are wrong headed. My point is that you give the French too much credit and Americans too little.

The monarchy did but all of those names on that list didn't joined to give the British a black eye. Most of them were too young to have ever experianced a war with the British and all of them took part in their own revolution and were doing so while fighting ours.

Your point?



You clearly have no clue as to why the 7 years war was fought and who took part. Spain lost Florida and the Dutch were neutral until some of their forces were attacked in India.

The why isn't an issue here, the fact that the British and the French were almost always at war with each other is. And when they were not at war, they were planning the next one!

I didn't say we never would have revolted..I said we never would have won and thats the cold hard truth of the matter. You failed to adress the basic questions I proposed.

There is no way to know "what might have happened if", we can only know what did happen.



I've already said this about a dozen times..I'm not French. By the way, Napoleon is the one who picked that price..he didn't get "rooked".

And what is your ultimate point here? Do you expect us to suddenly love the French? Or them us? We all have short memories when it comes to gratitude. When it comes to arrogance and pompous behaviour, the French are every bit our equal.
 
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Don't even start. WW1 was just as much our war as it was for the French. The Germans had been sinking our merchant vessels for over a year and the sinking of one of our cruise liners was the straw that broke the camels back.



Thats total bs. The majority of the significant French players in our revolution began ariving more than 4 years before Louis made it official policy.



You're an imbecil. The Hungarians introduced the Chauchat into WW1. The French required cheap and fast production for the war because they had gone bankrupt and were short of munitions on the key battlefields.



Thats a bunch of nationalistic crap. The British would have embargoed the colonies. You failed to answer ALL of the questions I posed. Britain was the world superpower and the colonies were nothing without the British until France came into the pucture.

i wouldn't say the Americas were nothing. we were..a minor annoyance. the main focus was on france. granted. i have read the war of american independence from their point of view. that's why thr frence helped, because by that time the british were not crushing the colonists. it was an embarrisment. the best army in the world, redcoats, being defeated by some rag tag army of buckskin clad fighters. true, washington's army was not the best in the world, but he did survive valley forge and continue on. that was why we won. because we, americans, kept going. the french, helped of course, and admiral de grasse's botteling up of cornwallis's army at yorktown was probably the most underrated action of the war
 
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