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America`s Involvment With Israel

F41

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I believe America should not pressure Israel in their affairs IE Palestine. To defend them from their enemies I will fully support and I would even offer myself in their defense.

How do you feel?
 

Elektra

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I think Israel needs the international pressure.
 

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Elektra said:
I think Israel needs the international pressure.
Why do you feel this way?
 

MiamiFlorida

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ThePhoenix said:
I believe America should not pressure Israel in their affairs IE Palestine. To defend them from their enemies I will fully support and I would even offer myself in their defense.

How do you feel?
Count me in!
 

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I feel perfectly fine supporting Israel.


I think we should be more critical when Israel does something wrong to the palesitians than we are, though, but also remain pressure on Palistanians to shape up if they want their own country.
 

Tashah

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Good topic! I'll follow it, but I recuse myself from participation.


 

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128shot said:
I feel perfectly fine supporting Israel.


I think we should be more critical when Israel does something wrong to the palesitians than we are, though, but also remain pressure on Palistanians to shape up if they want their own country.
They have thier own country, it's called Jordan. It's probably three times the size of Israel as well. I support Israel whole heartedly!
 

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I thought the Palestianians wanted their own country, not to merge with Jordan?
 

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128shot said:
I thought the Palestianians wanted their own country, not to merge with Jordan?
From my understanding, the area was split...Palestianians were given Jordan, the Jews were given Israel.

I could be wrong, I'll admit it if I am...but it is what I have read.
 

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According to Sir Alec Kirkbride, the British representative in the area, Transjordan was:

... intended to serve as a reserve of land for use in the resettlement of Arabs once the National Home for the Jews in Palestine, which [Britain was] pledged to support, became an accomplished fact. There was no intention at that stage of forming the territory east of the River Jordan into an independent Arab state.
 
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Our unconditional alliance with Israel has caused us nothing but problems. Israel is cited by the UN as violating more than 35 resolutions and commiting humanitarian crimes. It's interesting that the UN is considered a worthless organization until our government wants to use it as an excuse to go to war. Yes, Hamas commits crimes as well but it's not as if Israel hasn't..in fact Israel has been cited as being the instigator in many situations. Israel even supported Hamas back in the 70s and early to mid 80s. Both are guilty. State Department counter terrorism official Larry Johnson said "The Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism.The Israelis are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer.They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it" My opinion..we need to be neutral and let the chips fall where they may.
 

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I don't have a problem with the state of Israel but I think we should sure as heck stop paying them all that money not to fight Egypt. And we should also stop paying Egypt not to fight Israel. We need our money for things like repairing the south coast. It's funny how nobody suggests we save money by cutting aid to those two countries.
 

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Our unconditional alliance with Israel has caused us nothing but problems. Israel is cited by the UN as violating more than 35 resolutions and commiting humanitarian crimes. It's interesting that the UN is considered a worthless organization until our government wants to use it as an excuse to go to war. Yes, Hamas commits crimes as well but it's not as if Israel hasn't..in fact Israel has been cited as being the instigator in many situations. Israel even supported Hamas back in the 70s and early to mid 80s. Both are guilty. State Department counter terrorism official Larry Johnson said "The Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism.The Israelis are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer.They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it" My opinion..we need to be neutral and let the chips fall where they may.
The Same UN that withdrew the Peace Keeping Force from the Sinia like Nasser's bitch in 1967 and allowed 250,000 soldiers to move onto the Israeli Border, and when we protested were refused the right to say anything in the General Assembly? Or when the Arabs invaded in 1973 refused to issue a resolution on ceasefire until the war had swung against the Arabs? Or the UN that condemned our retaliatory strike against the PLO in Lebanon? I was only a year old in 1982, when my parents left the Galilee because it was too dangerous with histage takings and shellings and raids. Have you ever been driven from your home because of an enemy that hates your very existance? Well the UN condemned that too.

The UN that said never again after Holocaust but allowed a Genocide to continue and erupt in Rwanda and Darfur. The UN that was supposed to bring Peace to the Congo did nothing until UN soldiers were fired upon. The UN that failed to act until the Americans pressured NATO in Bosnia and Kosovo. The UN that condemned us for killing the members of the Black September.

The UN's word on issues is worth nothing.
 
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superskippy said:
The Same UN that withdrew the Peace Keeping Force from the Sinia like Nasser's bitch in 1967 and allowed 250,000 soldiers to move onto the Israeli Border, and when we protested were refused the right to say anything in the General Assembly? Or when the Arabs invaded in 1973 refused to issue a resolution on ceasefire until the war had swung against the Arabs? Or the UN that condemned our retaliatory strike against the PLO in Lebanon? I was only a year old in 1982, when my parents left the Galilee because it was too dangerous with histage takings and shellings and raids. Have you ever been driven from your home because of an enemy that hates your very existance? Well the UN condemned that too.

The UN that said never again after Holocaust but allowed a Genocide to continue and erupt in Rwanda and Darfur. The UN that was supposed to bring Peace to the Congo did nothing until UN soldiers were fired upon. The UN that failed to act until the Americans pressured NATO in Bosnia and Kosovo. The UN that condemned us for killing the members of the Black September.

The UN's word on issues is worth nothing.

Israel is the one that brought Hamas into power. Israel is the one that supported Hamas throughout the 70s and the early 80s. Hamas was even a legally registered organization in Israel in 1978. No Israeli has any ground to stand on when complaining about Hamas..they created the monster. Whether you want to admit it or not Israel does commit humanitarian crimes, violates resolutions, and illegally annexes land. Hamas does much of the same. Don't paint Israel as a saint because it certainly is not.
 

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Well if you recall Hamas was a Saint compared to the PLO in the 1970's. Munich Massacre, School Hostage Takings, Military Build Up, Raids, Massacre, Bombings, Artillary Strikes.

What did Hamas do in that time period? Actually good things on the Palestinian end, exposing corruption, administration of trusts and organizing community projects, but in the 1980's they were seized by militant leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Thus direction was changed.

At anyrate the entire theory that Hamas came about and was totally supported by us is a claim supported only by UPI which has run no further articles since.
 

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I was wondering, after giving back Gaza, does anyone think the publicly supported terrorist offensive and the state-sponsered suicide bombing against Isreal will stop? I don't, and I think that shows the ultimate reason for our support of Isreal over Palistine. Isreal makes consession and a zealous Palistine can think only of providence.
 

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Our unconditional alliance with Israel has caused us nothing but problems. Israel is cited by the UN as violating more than 35 resolutions and commiting humanitarian crimes. It's interesting that the UN is considered a worthless organization until our government wants to use it as an excuse to go to war. Yes, Hamas commits crimes as well but it's not as if Israel hasn't..in fact Israel has been cited as being the instigator in many situations. Israel even supported Hamas back in the 70s and early to mid 80s. Both are guilty. State Department counter terrorism official Larry Johnson said "The Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism.The Israelis are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer.They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it" My opinion..we need to be neutral and let the chips fall where they may.
Exactly. IMO, we could improve relations between the world if we gave as much money to Arab nations as we do to Israel, in a more balanced way.
 

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kal-el said:
Exactly. IMO, we could improve relations between the world if we gave as much money to Arab nations as we do to Israel, in a more balanced way.
Yeah that's thinking, give equal money to Palistine regardless of their policies. I'm sure the families that recieive a payoff for strapping a bomb to their kid will write a thank you note to the US.
 

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iamjack said:
Yeah that's thinking, give equal money to Palistine regardless of their policies. I'm sure the families that recieive a payoff for strapping a bomb to their kid will write a thank you note to the US.
Isn't that part of the reason Islamic fundamentalists hate us?And by the way, our buddies the Israelis were heavy terrorists in the '80s,not to mention, they were in support of Hamas. And we give Jordan and Syria millions of dollars for keeping peaceful relations with Israel. What would happen if we spread the wealth?
 

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What bugs me is that we are supporting a government that acts just as bad as the terrorist that target them.

I dunno really why we support Israel anyways. Besides the fact that they are our allies. I think we only do it cause there are a lot of Jewish people in our country. Ah well.

But then again we have a lot of Irish people in our country also and we don't support the IRA. Ah well.
 
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iamjack said:
I was wondering, after giving back Gaza, does anyone think the publicly supported terrorist offensive and the state-sponsered suicide bombing against Isreal will stop? I don't, and I think that shows the ultimate reason for our support of Isreal over Palistine. Isreal makes consession and a zealous Palistine can think only of providence.

Thats not entirely accurate. All of the proposed peace deals involved Israel annexing more land than they were giving up, forbidding the palestinians from developing the new land they were given, Israeli military dominance in the palestinian territories, and palestine having to ask Israel's permision before they policed their own territory. In reality all Israel has been doing is trying to rake in more land and control the land that is owned by the palestinians. In terms of this peace deal..it's extremely odd. Muslims and palistinians are still only given second class citizenship in the Israeli territories and the Israelis still give themselves the right bulldoze muslim buisnesses and homes to build Israeli buisinesses and homes. Frankly it's stupid for the U.S. to continue to involve itself in this diplomatic quagmire.
 

Tashah

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Thats not entirely accurate. All of the proposed peace deals involved Israel annexing more land than they were giving up, forbidding the palestinians from developing the new land they were given, Israeli military dominance in the palestinian territories, and palestine having to ask Israel's permision before they policed their own territory. In reality all Israel has been doing is trying to rake in more land and control the land that is owned by the palestinians. In terms of this peace deal..it's extremely odd. Muslims and palistinians are still only given second class citizenship in the Israeli territories and the Israelis still give themselves the right bulldoze muslim buisnesses and homes to build Israeli buisinesses and homes. Frankly it's stupid for the U.S. to continue to involve itself in this diplomatic quagmire.
What on Earth are you talking about? The Palestinians certainly do develop their land... I myself frequent a Palestinian casino (The Oasis) in Nablus. Bulldozed homes and businesses? What year are you referring to here? The last homes and businesses bulldozed were Israeli ones in Gaza. Did that completely pass you by? Second class citizenship? Perhaps you missed the Palestinian elections? Frankly, you are well out of touch with the realities on the ground in Israel and Palestine. Instead of regurgitating tired old rhetoric, you really should brush up on current events.



 
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Tashah said:
What on Earth are you talking about? The Palestinians certainly do develop their land... I myself frequent a Palestinian casino (The Oasis) in Nablus. Bulldozed homes and businesses? What year are you referring to here? The last homes and businesses bulldozed were Israeli ones in Gaza. Did that completely pass you by? Second class citizenship? Perhaps you missed the Palestinian elections? Frankly, you are well out of touch with the realities on the ground in Israel and Palestine. Instead of regurgitating tired old rhetoric, you really should brush up on current events.



I really don't know a whole lot about this issue, nor have I ever been to Israel. But I do feel very sorry for the Jews that were forcefully removed from their homes in the Gaza strip.

As far as I know, the Jews only wanted Israel after their annihiliation in Europe. I can't say I blame them. They were denied entry into other countries at the time and so I bet they only felt like they needed to create Israel to perserve themselves.
 

Tashah

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George_Washington said:
I really don't know a whole lot about this issue, nor have I ever been to Israel. But I do feel very sorry for the Jews that were forcefully removed from their homes in the Gaza strip.

As far as I know, the Jews only wanted Israel after their annihiliation in Europe. I can't say I blame them. They were denied entry into other countries at the time and so I bet they only felt like they needed to create Israel to perserve themselves.
The Jewish people didn't just drop out of the sky and land in Israel by UN fiat. We have been in Israel continuously from the patriarch Abraham to today. The Gaza strip withdrawal was a necessary evil... someone had to begin the process of peace and reconcilliation with more than empty words.

You are always welcomed to visit Israel George. It is an intoxicating blend of the very ancient and cutting-edge modernity, and resides in a Mediterranean sub-tropical climate. Although Hebrew is the official language of Israel, English is a required second language for all Gymnasium (high school) students. Tourism is rapidly becoming a booming industry... and most first-time visitors invariably return to Israel again and again.


 

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Tashah said:
The Jewish people didn't just drop out of the sky and land in Israel by UN fiat. We have been in Israel continuously from the patriarch Abraham to today. The Gaza strip withdrawal was a necessary evil... someone had to begin the process of peace and reconcilliation with more than empty words.

You are always welcomed to visit Israel George. It is an intoxicating blend of the very ancient and cutting-edge modernity, and resides in a Mediterranean sub-tropical climate. Although Hebrew is the official language of Israel, English is a required second language for all Gymnasium (high school) students. Tourism is rapidly becoming a booming industry... and most first-time visitors invariably return to Israel again and again.





I also hear Israel has some of the best average universitys in the world...
 
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