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America responsible for being hated and attacked

cnredd

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deep-illusions said:
I am new to the forum, and I will begin my postings by telling you how the US has contributed in part to the operations of terrorists.

OK, toughguy...time to preach the truth and disembowel the uninitiated....

The "facts" you've laid out have more holes than a dirty, half-filled strip club...

Another thing that I would like to point out on why not only terrorists, but many people and countries hate the United States: because it seems that the US has no respect for other countries or for formal pacts that it has made. Standing out more is the fact that the US went to war even when the UN denied its request to go to war.
No respect? The troops that we've spread throughout the world are the only thing protecting western society from crumbling. That's like a celebrity putting down their bodygauards for being inferior. If it wasn't for the US protecting Europe's interests around the world, Europe would look like Africa without all of the flies. The only reason the US doesn't get any respect is because Europe is TAKING FOR GRANTED the security the US provides to its "allies". They haven't done anything to protect themselves for the last 60 years...why should they get their hands dirty now?

And the UN? I could have 6 months in solitary confinement and it wouldn't be enough time to explain their atrocities.
the US also thinks that it is the best just because it has money and thinks it has a rich culture and history that describes it as powerful and independent.
Correctomundo Dingleberry! We ARE powerful & Independent. We didn't get that way sitting on the sidelines like France and praying for someone else to come to the rescue...We don't wait for the calvery...We ARE the calvery, you snot-nosed punk! Unlike the rest of the world, we pulled ourselves up by the bootstraps and made this country as "powerful" and "independent" as it is today. There are over two hundred countries in the world, yet the US, which is one of the youngest countries on the planet, has the oldest Constitution of any nation. People hate us because we got it right on the first try. France has the second oldest, which is a plagerized version of ours, but they just replaced every instance of the word "defense" with the word "surrender".
I can imagine the distrought feelings other countries have for us...they've all been around longer, and yet they still need the "younger brother" to get them out of jams. America, less than 200 years old, had to help the rest of western civilization, which had a thousand year head start, to prevent the Axis powers from taking over a whole continent.

Imagine the embarassment of that....Having to ask your 10-year-old sibling to help fight your battles. Europe is the 45-year-old guy still selling shoes at the local strip mall, and the US is the 30-year-old brother who is a self-made millionaire spanking the monkey with the painted ladies on the weekends. If I were Europe, I'd understand the bitterness. Next item up for bids?
Truth is the US has not much culture compared to about 50% of the world, it has not much histiry either, since its real history begins about the time of the "Tea party" and such,
Here's our culture...we don't ask for help...we do for ourselves. Name another country that does that...I didn't think so.
And our history? First off, I apologize for not being founded 900 years earlier...happy?
Second, from our starting point to where we are now is light-years ahead of every other government in the world today. If aliens came down and wanted to know how its done the best, I don't think it would go to Europe's, Asia's, Africa's, or South America's history.
it would have more if it recognized the indians as "Americans" since they DO have a history and is IN this land. Also the US has no right to call it self "America", when America is the whole continent, North America is "the U.S, Canada and Mexico" and south America from Belize and Guatemala down...also refered as Latin America.
As to the Indian comment, you would be correct....Celebrate now, 'cause the agreement ends there...To bring up "black-eyes" on one government, you SURELY should be able to come full circle and point out the mistakes made by the rest of the world. Did you know more African slaves went to Europe than the US? No you don't, because you only want to make the US look bad and give the rest of the world a free pass.
As for us calling ourselves "American" being a falsehood, saying "Americans of the United States" is a tad convoluted, don't you think? Pointing out such a small priority is weak...I'd say "you can do better", but you've only posted once, so that opinion is still up for debate.
I also don't like the fact that the gov. thinks they car brain wash all Americans. Many, many other countries realize what the U.S is doing in war and economy and gov. much more than the own American people, mostly because most Americans believe everything they are said, they shouldn't and allow at least a bit of space in their minds for a doubt. This would prevent many more erroneuous actions, such as President Bush, Gov. Arnold S. (sorry I always misspell his last name) and the deaths of countless soldiers that are fighting for almost no reason now, Bin Laden is probably enjoying satelite TV in a cave, while Hussein and other terrorist leaders are awaiting sentence and such. The soldiers are serving their country, and thats their proud job, I am aware of that, but the are only fighting militias, civilianst and costing many manny young lives, that other ways could contribute greatly to gov, economy and culture in general in the future.
If Americans believed everything that was said, there wouldn't be this website? Right doofus? The brainwashing theory has been discounted since I've first got to the age of reason...one day you'll get there, too.
The troops fighting now is a LOT better than more troops fighting later. This would've been averted if the world leaders nipped this in the bud years ago, but because of appeasement, they let the problem build...It's "pay me now or pay me later".
Again, I like this country as I like many more and enjoy living here and such I am not racist or hater of any country :mrgreen: ...I am just pointing out facts
Great..."I love the fruits of this country while I get to criticize openly how we got the fruits in the first place".
I don't think you hate America...I think you want to be "gauche" and "novel" in your thinking without accepting any responsibility or consequences for the disgust you spread...It's real nice getting negative attention...better than no attention at all, isn't it?
 

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There is no "reason" why religious extremists dislike the USA. It is their religion to dislike or to hate the USA or any other country that doesn't fully accept their whabi code of living. America didn't cause any of the hating to start its the extreme religion that dictates that no other religion or people can exists without their religion. Muhammad didn't write the Koran. He couldn't read or write, the Koran was written some 200 years after Muhammad's death so Muslim religion has never gone from the original version since the beginning.

In conclusion TERRORISTS HATE AMERICA AND ANY OTHER NON-MUSLIM NATION THAT DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THE EXTREME VERSION, BECAUSE IT IS THEIR RELIGION TO HATE US. Thats why the terrorists(religious extremists) flew planes into WTC on 9/11.
 

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deep-illusions said:
*Sigh* The facts you brought up can so easily be dismissed, that I won't bother on dismissing all of them
. True that U.S helps other countries, that issue went by me sorry, however, They buy their good only to sell them back for higher prices. protect them for your own benefit, like why protect Mexico or Latin American countries in a future? Not because they are "friends" but because they provide oil. Yeah, immunize them to test if the new vaccine is effective in their own people.
The U.S DO help other countries, your facts however are kind of wrong.

Also why not call this nation...uhh.. United States like the dollar bill?? Thats what half the world does, you don't see England and France calling themselves Europe do you?

yeah Mexico may send children here and learn the English language and such, however it is most likely because there is no work in their own country. After all the U.S IS the richest country, it would be foolish not to learn their language, however the culture and history...nah. You mean Football? the American food? yeah, they may be the American culture, proud to eat it and play it, but not as much as other countries.

Well if US is the best, why is it trillion of dollars in debt? I dont see the BEST being in debt.

Kwanzaa a US culture? St. Patrick's day? That is culture that comes from other countries, the fact that the US celebrates them doesn't mean its THEIR culture.

The US is great, I just don't like it wanting to believe its the only country here.

talking about brain wash? I heard all the ideas you mention coming from Bush and many other candidates...how easily you eat from their hand.

Last time I checked.. the original settlers CAME from other countries. The US has ALWAYS been the "melting pot" of the world, so isn't it only FAIR to say that the US's culture IS other countries, because YOUR ancestors and MY ancestors not only brought themselves and their families, but THEIR culture along. How hard a concept is that to figure out?

And no, England is often referred to the United Kingdom... which includes Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and probably 1 or 2 more I'm forgetting. But if you have an issue with the United States of AMERICA... better dig up the founding fathers, and criticize them.

"We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.–And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our fortunes and our sacred Honor."


Highlighted in bold is the closing paragraph of the Declaration of Independence. My case rested.
 
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Messerschmitt said:
It is their religion to dislike or to hate the USA or any other country that doesn't fully accept their whabi code of living. America didn't cause any of the hating to start its the extreme religion that dictates that no other religion or people can exists without their religion.

umm...wrong. Islam does not teach people to hate others, the fundamentalist version does. And America has done some to cause hating. It's supported rich, corrupt, repressive dictators to get their oil and has supported Israel militarily. We still have military bases in the Middle East that bother a lot of people. So don't act like America is completely the innocent victim here.

Messerschmitt said:
Muhammad didn't write the Koran. He couldn't read or write, the Koran was written some 200 years after Muhammad's death so Muslim religion has never gone from the original version since the beginning.
The same can be said about the Bible. And what's your point, anyway?
Messerschmitt said:
In conclusion TERRORISTS HATE AMERICA AND ANY OTHER NON-MUSLIM NATION THAT DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THE EXTREME VERSION, BECAUSE IT IS THEIR RELIGION TO HATE US. Thats why the terrorists(religious extremists) flew planes into WTC on 9/11.
Do you believe and repeat everything Bush has to say on the topic? Yes, just keep saying that they hate us, they hate America because its their religion, and we'll be stting purselves up for another attack by not addressing the real issues.
 

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umm...wrong. Islam does not teach people to hate others, the fundamentalist version does. And America has done some to cause hating. It's supported rich, corrupt, repressive dictators to get their oil and has supported Israel militarily. We still have military bases in the Middle East that bother a lot of people. So don't act like America is completely the innocent victim here.

Umm...your wrong completely wrong. I never said Ilam or muslim in general; I said,
America didn't cause any of the hating to start its the extreme religion that dictates that no other religion or people can exists without their religion.
We don't just go into middle eastern countries and build a base, in Sadui Arabia they asked us to build a base there. Since I don't know everything, I haven't seen to much about supporting dictators to get their oil in the recent past. As far as supporting the Israel army whats wrong with that? and how does that give people justification for people to hate us? Many countires support other countries army's, but they aren't hated.

Do you believe and repeat everything Bush has to say on the topic? Yes, just keep saying that they hate us, they hate America because its their religion, and we'll be stting purselves up for another attack by not addressing the real issues.

I am not just reitorating what other people say the proof is all around you. Thats why 9/11 happened, so that the religious extremists could clearly state that they want us dead. America is hated, because it is the religious extremist's(terrorists) religion that tells them that anyone who does not accept their version of Islam or muslim even other Islamics and muslims shall be killed. I have tried to talk to religious extremists and they make it very clear why they hate us. Thats what Jihad means is holy war driven by religious beliefs.

“I think if these Islamic fundamentalists got to know us they’d like us.” Of course, many real people think the way the folks in the hot tub in this cartoon think. You’ll find some of them not in hot tubs, but in the State Department. Unfortunately, however, despite all the hearts-and-minds initiatives, this conflict has nothing to do with getting to know us. The principles of global jihad, to which Al-Muhajiroun enthusiastically subscribes, are not a reaction to American power or any particular American action. The influential Pakistani radical Muslim theorist Syed Abul Ala Maududi declared that “Islam requires the earth — not just a portion, but the whole planet — not because the sovereignty over the earth should be wrested from one Nation or several Nations and vested in one particular Nation, but because the entire mankind should benefit … from ‘Islam’ which is the programme of well-being for all humanity.”
Yea, and there started by killing Americans on the first WTC attack back in 1993 before Guantanamo Bay. It is there religion that tells them that they must kills us, because we don't want to accept their extreme version of Islam of Muslim.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13284
 

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Messerschmitt said:
Umm...your wrong completely wrong. I never said Ilam or muslim in general;
When you said "the extreme religion," I mistook it for meaning simply "Islam" instead of "extreme Islam." My apologies.
Messerschmitt said:
We don't just go into middle eastern countries and build a base, in Sadui Arabia they asked us to build a base there. Since I don't know everything, I haven't seen to much about supporting dictators to get their oil in the recent past. As far as supporting the Israel army whats wrong with that? and how does that give people justification for people to hate us? Many countires support other countries army's, but they aren't hated.
The Saudis are the totalitarians that we've supported to get their oil. In return for their oil, we don't pressure them to make social reforms. Its the government that has made the unpopular decision to invite American military onto saudi land but its the people who use terrorism to show its unpopularity. And I'm not saying that supporting Israel is wrong; what I meant was that Arabs see it as wrong. There is some justification for disliking us, but absolutley none for taking that out on innocent people.And Israel isn't just "another country"; its a Jewish nation, which means a whole lot to Arab Muslims.

Messerschmitt said:
I am not just reitorating what other people say the proof is all around you. Thats why 9/11 happened, so that the religious extremists could clearly state that they want us dead. America is hated, because it is the religious extremist's(terrorists) religion that tells them that anyone who does not accept their version of Islam or muslim even other Islamics and muslims shall be killed.
But you're not addressing any real issues here about why they hate us. To say that they just hate us just because of their religion erases any semblance of responsibilty from the US, when we should be looking at our involvements in the Middle East and seeing how or why we've messed up and how we can help fix it.
 

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This poor kid, deep-illusions, joins the site and right away starts a thread. He gets all of two threads out and then gone. I saw him on-line yesterday viewing this thread. Then he was gone. What have you evil people done? If you all were more like me and been nurturing and supportive he might still be here to add his thoughts to our forum. Bur noooooo, you all run him off like a snake with syphilis. Shame people. Now think about what you have done.
 

cnredd

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An oldie but goodie; dusted off for your pleasure...

Claim: Canadian radio commentator Gordon Sinclair delivered a stirring, pro-American editorial in 1973.

Status: True.


This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas DC-10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon — not once, but several times — and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/sinclair.asp
 
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Being born in Glasgow Scotland, which was bombed by the Germans during the Second World War, and now living in Australia, which was a country threatened by the Japanese. I am forever greatfull for the American sacrifice, that you gave to my country of birth and new homeland. Because of your parents, and grandparents, or maybe great grandparents, I enjoy freedom.

America didn't have to fight the Germans as a priority, the U.S could have decided that it was going to concentrate on Japan, then Germany. Rightfully so, as you guys were attacked by the Japanese. But, because your leaders realised that Britain and the Soviet Union, were extremely close to losing the war (at that moment in the war) your nation decided to help us Brits.

The American generation that lived through the great depression, died on foreign beaches, so that other people. Not Americans, but Brits, French, Dutch, Italians, Jews, and ultimately Germans themselves would be freed from the evils of Nazism.

You helped to rebuild Europe afterwords. Your nation didn't need to. You kept troops in Europe, that undoubtably prevented Soviet forces from Communising the rest of Europe. You prevented my adopted nation, Australia from being invaded by the Japanese.

America even rebuilt Japan, and went on to defend South Korea, from N. Korean agression.

To all the islamofacist apoligists that say that American foreign policy is what is causing terrorism, I pose this question?


Where was their excuse for bombing the WTC in 1993? Where was the their excuse for bombing the American Embassies in Kenyan, killing innocent Africans? Where was their excuse for bombing the U.S.S Cole?

Why don't these islamist terrorists recognise that the U.S argued for military intervention in the Balkans twice. Firstly too try and prevent the bloodshed happening against Bosnian Muslims in the Yugoslavain civil war, and then in an attempt to try and prevent Slobodan's massacre of the Albanian muslims in Kosovo. How interesting that the islamist terrorists and apologists miss this fact. Even more interestingly it was the U.S that talked France and Germany into getting Nato into gear, to try and stop the Yugoslavian civil war. Sure American may have not prevented the Serbernicia massacre, but where were all the glorious mahujadeen fighters, when their muslim brothers were being slaughtered?

Why is it that the islamists tolerated the corrupt Arafat, how was screwing his own people, out milions of foreign aid? When they constantly talk about America and the West being the source of corruption?

Where was the Islamists reason for bombing Turkey, or bombing Egypt? And what is the reason for the islamists killing their muslim brothers in Iraq? (Which they hold in such high regard on Al-Jazeera.)

Why did they bomb London, which was a city, that had a majority of the population against the war in Iraq?

I don't deny that the War in Iraq has increased the risk of terrorism, for America, Britain, and Australia. But that is the risk. Not the actual hazard, which has existed long before. The danger that exists as Islamic extremism, just needs an excuse to bomb us, because the west doesn't fit with their notion of the Islamic empire.

If they don't attack Britain or America because of the war, they'll attack France, because they are 'too secular', they'll bomb Spain, again to recover the 'lost lands of the Moors', etc.

America is the land of the free and the home and the brave, and I hope it stays that way. Whether you are are a conservative, liberal, libertarian, green, or independent, don't ever apologise to the terrorists. Don't ever apologise to those that kill innocents, in the name of their dilusional holy war.
 
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I gotta correct you, the american PEOPLE gave a great sacrifice during WWII. I tend to differentiate between them and the political and government elite, who undertook the war against Germany for a lot more ulterior reasons than helping their european brethren.
 

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Anyways, We aren't responsible for being attacked, but we are responsible to an extent for being hated.
 

cnredd

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Australianlibertarian said:
I don't deny that the War in Iraq has increased the risk of terrorism, for America, Britain, and Australia. But that is the risk. Not the actual hazard, which has existed long before. The danger that exists as Islamic extremism, just needs an excuse to bomb us, because the west doesn't fit with their notion of the Islamic empire.

If they don't attack Britain or America because of the war, they'll attack France, because they are 'too secular', they'll bomb Spain, again to recover the 'lost lands of the Moors', etc.

America is the land of the free and the home and the brave, and I hope it stays that way. Whether you are are a conservative, liberal, libertarian, green, or independent, don't ever apologise to the terrorists. Don't ever apologise to those that kill innocents, in the name of their dilusional holy war.

Thousands of miles away...neighbors in thought...Thank you.
:2australi :2usflag:
 

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Australianlibertarian said:
America is the land of the free and the home and the brave, and I hope it stays that way. Whether you are are a conservative, liberal, libertarian, green, or independent, don't ever apologise to the terrorists. Don't ever apologise to those that kill innocents, in the name of their dilusional holy war.

And I said I wasn't gonna cry.(Sniff)



Billo.....Oh Biiiillo. Come on back, we were just funnin.
 
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cnredd

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teacher said:
Billo.....Oh Biiiillo. Come on back, we were just funnin.

Let's not go too far.....
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by cnredd:
Let's not go too far.....
... were so far away, doesn't anyone stay in one place anymore,

...It would be so fine to see your face at my door
Doesn't help to know you're just time away

Long ago I reached for you and there you stood
Holding you again could only do me good
How I wish I could, but you're so far away

One more song about movin' along the highway
Can't say much of anything that's new
If I could only work this life out my way
I'd rather spend it bein' close to you.

But you're so far away, doesn't anybody stay in one place any
more
It would be so fine to see your face at my door
Doesn't help to know you're so far away

Travelin' around sure gets me down and lonely
Nothin' else to do but close my mind
I sure do hope the road don't come to own me
There's so many dreams
I've yet to find

But your so far away
Doesn't anybody stay in one place anymore
It would be so fine to see your face at my door
And it doesn't help to know youre so faaaaaaar away...


In your case, "your so vain, you probably think this song is about you".

Kum-by-that!
 

teacher

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Billo_Really said:
... were so far away, doesn't anyone stay in one place anymore,
In your case, "your so vain, you probably think this song is about you".

Kum-by-that!

You know, some flowers, chocolates, a thank you note, hall mark, something, but no, and to think all the trouble I went though.

Well, the giant head picture is pretty swell.
 
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cnredd

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teacher said:
You know, some flowers, chocolates, a thank you note, hall mark, something, but no, and to think all the trouble I went though.

Well, the giant head picture is pretty swell.

Pun intended, I'm sure...
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Teacher:
You know, some flowers, chocolates, a thank you note, hall mark, something, but no, and to think all the trouble I went though.

Well, the giant head picture is pretty swell.
Have you checked out posts #332 and #333 in the Flame dept. on thread "Top Ten Lists..."
 

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all in all well said, it does appear the US can no longer be trusted to keep its word but, as was said, we do give a great deal of aid and support to the UN.

of course its not really aid if we expect the aided to support us in return.
 

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even though this thing is full of exagerrations and assumptions, I really enjoy the casual tone. You bring into the light the fact that there are inconsistencies that can be seen using common sense, more or less.

"I don't like how the government thinks it can brainwash all Americans"
Me neither. But who is the government? That gets really fuzzy the more and more you learn.

I would suggest doing some more research though, because some of these statements are wayyyyy off. It's like this: if you were using a buck-shot 12 gage up close you would hit, but we happen to be shooting skeet. Steady your posture, knowhatimean?

Happy Flaming!
 

mikeey

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deep-illusions we BRITS love the USA,good enough for us and good enough


for U

my kind regards

mikeey
 

ProudAmerican

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I just wanted to say I thought Ernest Borgnine was cool as hell in Airwolf!!!!

:lamo
 
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