• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

America IS shifting farther Left - Seems to be a permanent shift

Why in hell's bells should christianity be "protected"? :roll:

To be fair, not just Christianity, but any religion. Religion is a leech on society. It takes resources without providing anything demonstrably useful in return.
 
To ensure stability. Minarchist governments tend to massive social inequality, and this ends in either a growth of government to stabilise the nation, or in revolution.

Can you provide an example of a nation with a minimalist government that didn't end in massive power growth, or have atrocities such as slavery?

All governments grow to be more powerful no where they start. Larger governments like those found in the western world don't resolve social inequality either, but move around the wealth of the nation to less productive elements in the hopes that fixes the problem. What actually happens is it provides the government with control over all property by high taxation and still leaves a good part of the country poor.
 
Some things get worse, other things get better - from a libertarian perspective.

Growing national debt, executive overreach, the Obamacare quagmire, leftist brainwashing in schools - sure, all that is happening.

On the other hand, we have historically low crime; gun ownership is more widespread and more secure than ever; free trade keeps advancing, however fitfully; right-to-work legislation is spreading; the Idiotic War on Drugs is ending; no major tax increases are in sight, and there is a consensus that corporate taxes ought to be reduced; gay rights issues (the last area where the Left was appealing because it was basically right) are being taken off the table, etc, etc

It is really a mixed picture, not altogether grim. There is certainly the immediate threat posed by Trump/Sanders populism, but I believe it will be neutralized one way or another.

Short term, a lot of problems. But long term, I feel rather optimistic: We have been through much worse; America is resilient.
 
Last edited:
Honestly if you look at American history there was a pattern like this back in the late 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and maybe 1970.

The liberal consensus. Then there was a shift right wards.

This is just a shift back the other way, and who knows.

It's certainly not permanent.

The years you mention were the heyday of America when all classes advanced and the "American dream" was born. We can only hope we are going back to that and this time for good.
 
Says every "old timer" when they look back upon their life and where things are "today".

Time does funny things to memories, people unconsciously glorify the past while doomsdaying the future.

"The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems"
 
If it has been "fairly universal among old timers" for the last few hundred years, while it may have merit for the old timers, does it truly matter to anyone younger?

Younger people didn't experience America at its best so they have no base for comparison.
 
America was not at it's best in the 1960's.

I agree. It was at its best in the 40's and 50's. The 60's saw the beginning of the societal decline.
 
Some things get worse, other things get better - from a libertarian perspective.

Growing national debt, executive overreach, the Obamacare quagmire, leftist brainwashing in schools - sure, all that is happening.

On the other hand, we have historically low crime; gun ownership is more widespread and more secure than ever; free trade keeps advancing, however fitfully; right-to-work legislation is spreading; the Idiotic War on Drugs is ending; no major tax increases are in sight, and there is a consensus that corporate taxes ought to be reduced; gay rights issues (the last area where the Left was appealing because it was basically right) are being taken off the table, etc, etc

It is really a mixed picture, not altogether grim. There is certainly the immediate threat posed by Trump/Sanders populism, but I believe it will be neutralized one way or another.

Short term, a lot of problems. But long term, I feel rather optimistic: We have been through much worse; America is resilient.
Growing national debt
Why is this a problem?
executive overreach
Examples?
the Obamacare quagmire
I agree, it's not doing to well.
leftist brainwashing in schools
Y'know, the more I look at buzzfeed, the more I start to be sympathetic towards this talking point.. :lol:
 
OK, its best during my lifetime. Better?
Better. But this all depends on you're perspective, anyways. I'm pretty sure I'll feel the same when I'm a middle-aged woman.
 
It's called progress, and it's inevitable. A stagnating society is a dying society.

Actually, it's referred to as "progress", which doesn't automatically mean progress is actually happening. ;)
 
I agree. It was at its best in the 40's and 50's. The 60's saw the beginning of the societal decline.

And the 60s saw the rise of liberalism. Coincidence? I think not.
 
And the 60s saw the rise of liberalism. Coincidence? I think not.

Not sure if that's serious, but maybe the problem was 100 years of state sponsored discrimination against blacks became too much, and the blowback from an ill considered and executed war that was killing and maiming lots of young kids for a cause they didn't support.

On the broader topic, yes, the country is moving 'left' but that's IMO a reaction to the failures of what we think of as 'conservative' economics. We have our tax cuts, unions are all but dead, banks are pretty much free to do whatever they want and have grown into behemoths the failure of one of them threatening the financial system, corporations have merged into global behemoths and are efficiently destroying millions of American jobs replaced with nothing, and more. So it's natural people harmed by all that - which is most of the country - aren't taking "We need MORE of that" and believing it. We were told free trade would be good for domestic jobs and that's been proved false. We were told deregulating banks would be good, but that too has failed and all it's done is shunt a record amount of profits to blood sucking leeches and away from businesses making real products or providing real services. Tax cuts on "job creators" didn't create many jobs but they did funnel an awful lot of wealth into the top 0.1%! Etc.

The bottom line is the middle class is simply in deep trouble, nearly all the gains for decades have gone to a tiny share of the elites, and so what does anyone expect? The public has been effectively lied to and so are turning away from economic policies that simply haven't worked out for most of America.

On social issues, sure, we're moving left and that's an unambiguous good thing and thankfully irreversible.
 
Last edited:
OK, its best during my lifetime. Better?

Nope. 100% subjective, and means absolutely zilch to anyone else.

You have completely missed my point.

I'd bet you a gazillion dollars there was a vast majority of "old folks" in the 40's and 50's saying that "America was doomed" and that the "good old days were lost to all this newfangled modern nonsense".

Besides, I'm sure there's a piss load of people who rather hated, despised, feared, and loathed living in the early 1940's. Assuming they lived through it. All the WW2 and stuff.
 
Please quote exactly where the first amendment says anything about christianity.

I'll wait.

What part of "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", are you having trouble with?
 
Back
Top Bottom