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America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests. Henry Kissinger.





No long term relationships. The permanence of interests is all that counts
 
Callen said:
His enemies are his enemies until they give him something he wants then they are his friends and they better stay loyal if they want to remain his friend. He is 100% transactional.
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The Law behind global dominance. No nation rises to global dominance without the strict application of that law. And no nation remains in the top rank while violating that Law
 
anatta said:
Iran is never going to be a friend. but they can buy peace thru negotiations..thats transactional
It's basically realpolitik at the granular level
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Shia Iran is no more a son of a bitch than Wahabi Saudi Arabia. Keep in mind Wahabism visited us with 9/11. Yet we do business with Wahabi Saudi Arabia. Shia Iran just has to up its game. It has to accept it is loosing a lot through war. It may gain more through peddling interests like the Wahabis
 
j brown's body said:
A good quote explaining Trump's foreign policy is "The customer is always right."
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Not broke customers though. More like "the highest bidder is always right"
 
anatta said:
I happened to hear this on a CNN discussion panel. It's what Trump said as well today

Kissinger said it so much better, but this a (welcome) radical change from the hawkish regime change interventionist in both parties


full trump quote
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That’s pretty much true. Other countries have their own interests also. Russia a friend and ally during WWII, an enemy during the cold war. A friend at the beginning of the Russian Federation under Yeltsin, a enemy more or less today under Putin. North Vietnam our enemy both during and right after the Vietnam War. Today a friend who allows our ships to dock there and use of the Cam Ranh Naval base.

Iran a friend under the Shah, an enemy today, Pakistan a friend during the cold war, more or less an enemy today as they harbor terrorist. Egypt an enemy with Russian Backing, today a friend and the list goes on and on.
 
Juin said:
No long term relationships. The permanence of interests is all that counts
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Trust and integrity matter in relationships- even geopolitical ones.
 
Juin said:
I am not sure how its in anyone's interest to put up with leeches and freeloaders
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But you have no qualms with supporting a war criminal. Somehow, acquiescing with THAT is perfectly fine in your world

Free-loader? Of course the new golf course and luxury jet gifts from Qatar to Trump come with strings attached.

You ignore what is ideologically convenient for you to ignore.
 
Callen said:
That's all that caught your eye......investments in the US. You will notice I didn’t mention that as an issue of concern.
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I could only take so much. Trump is a fascist /corrupt /orange man bad..it's been done to death
I like to see a dynamic foreign policy.. no sacred cows
 
Juin said:
No long term relationships. The permanence of interests is all that counts
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except formal treaties. I criticize Trump for not using the USMCA with Mexico and Canada for ex.
 
anatta said:
I could only take so much. Trump is a fascist /corrupt /orange man bad..it's been done to death
I like to see a dynamic foreign policy.. no sacred cows
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I wish it was true you can only take so much but facts are you and other Trumpers are quite willing to accept it all.
 
Juin said:
Only if you wanna get shafted. Don't trust, verify.
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Again, that's true of all relationships. But that's no excuse to be a d--k, to everybody, all the time. You will not do well.
 
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Callen said:
I wish it was true you can only take so much but facts are you and other Trumpers are quite willing to accept it all.
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I addressed your post. I skipped over the partisan hype.Maybe you'll get lucky and Trump gets impeached over nonsense again
Like I said that dog dont hunt no more..although certain Dems havent got the memo

The country looks to be lowering inflation, lots of jobs and investments.. what's not to like?
 
ataraxia said:
Again, that's true of all relationships. But that's no excuse to be a d--k, to everybody all the time. You will not do well.
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Point taken. Being a dick to everybody all the time can also be counterproductive to one's own interests. To best serve one's interests one has to be tactical and strategic in how one is a dick
 
I can't accept unethical and corrupt acts by elected officials no matter how much I may like their policies. I just can't. When we get to that point we throw away all the norms that make democracies great. To each their own I suppose.
 
anatta said:
I happened to hear this on a CNN discussion panel. It's what Trump said as well today

Kissinger said it so much better, but this a (welcome) radical change from the hawkish regime change interventionist in both parties


full trump quote
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Friendship has at its foundation simple concepts like empathy, trust, sacrifice, love. We know that Donald is pathologically incapable of experiencing any of these emotions. The only emotions Donald is known to have exhibited are hatred, lust, envy and malice. Therefore the concept of a “friend” always has been and always will be foreign to him.
 
Callen said:
I can't accept unethical and corrupt acts by elected officials no matter how much I may like their policies. I just can't. When we get to that point we throw away all the norms that make democracies great. To each their own I suppose.
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to be as accurate as possible i accept crap like Campaign Finance violations. most are silly and pre-Trump would never have been prosecuted..maybe an administrative action.. Certainly not like throwing Manafort in solitaire.
I don't se any corruption otherwise.. surely not the Emoluments nothingness
Same with Crypto. Trump is getting a lot of money, but investors are not going to invest just for the winner getting a dinner.
They are speculating on getting a high return

When I find something like the weaponization of the FBI / Ministry of Truth de-platforming and lawfare, then i'll get with you
 
Callen said:
I can't accept unethical and corrupt acts by elected officials no matter how much I may like their policies. I just can't. When we get to that point we throw away all the norms that make democracies great. To each their own I suppose.
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It’s a matter of definitions. For a MAGA such as @anatta, since Donald Trump by definition embodies Truth and Righteousness, he is simply incapable of ever seeing unethical or corrupt behavior in any act performed by Trump. Cheating on pregnant wives? Not a problem or doesn’t count. Decades of scams? Not a problem or doesn’t count. Endless lies to demonize others? Not a problem or doesn’t count. And so on and so on.

There is nothing Donald can do to or in front of @anatta to lose his loyalty. Hence, it is a waste of time to even try. Since Donald is the source of their code of ethics, no MAGA is capable of perceiving Trump to even be capable of unethical behavior.
 
anatta said:
I happened to hear this on a CNN discussion panel. It's what Trump said as well today

Kissinger said it so much better, but this a (welcome) radical change from the hawkish regime change interventionist in both parties


full trump quote
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That's something to be proud of?
 
Callen said:
I can't accept unethical and corrupt acts by elected officials no matter how much I may like their policies. I just can't. When we get to that point we throw away all the norms that make democracies great. To each their own I suppose.
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This.
 
It wasn't that long ago when MAGAs were all about the Constitution, now they cheer when the felon wiped his huge behind with it.
 
Juin said:
Two separate questions connected by an "and"
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Those two things are happening simultaneously right now and deserve to be considered together.

1. It can, and has often served America's interest to align with sons of bitches. Aligning with Joseph Stalin during WWII. Aligning with Mao against USSR during Cold War. Aligning today with oil rich wahabi bastards.
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What threat at the level of the Nazis or USSR are we facing today that justifies aligning with Russia and North Korea?

2. Some Europeans have been freeloaders in Nato and leeches through EU. I am not sure how its in anyone's interest to put up with leeches and freeloaders
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Canada ranks as the top recipient of US exports. How is it in our interest to alienate Canada? How is in the US's interest for European countries to militarize themselves? Are you aware of any time in the last 150 years when a heavily militarized Europe caused global problems? How is undermining NATO during the first time in 100 years Europe is being actively invaded by an enemy of democracy and the US, for no reason, in America's interest? Do you realize how many US jobs are created by our military spending? Maybe the problem is you need to think a little harder and expand your horizons beyond conservative talking points.
 
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Countries have always had an interest in having friends/allies that they can count on in a pinch.

The quote is a meaningless platitude because you always have an interest in having allies.

From a personal point of view, good friends are hard to make and maintain and should never be thrown away for nothing.
 
Cameron said:
Those two things are happening simultaneously right now and deserve to be considered together.
What threat at the level of the Nazis or USSR are we facing today that justifies aligning with Russia and North Korea?
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Implicit in your question is the assumption that you will align with a son of a bitch provided you can find a justification for that. But that is no different from Kissinger. Or anyone else for that matter




1. Business is business. If others are engaged in unfair trade practices then the US cannot be expected to do nothing because another may feel alienated.

2 Why should Nato be the burden of the US? Europe is a very rich continent, it should pay for its defense
 
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