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america being too liberal

A

amanda

I believe America has become too liberal. Do you agree, and if so, any comments will greatly assist me. thanks
 

Squawker

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Hi amanda! :2wave:



I think the Liberals had their day and are on the way down in popularity. It just seems like liberalism has taken over because they are so loud and in your face.
 

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No I absolutely do not agree with you one bit.
Why Not? People are turned off by the hate America rhetoric coming from Liberals especially after 9-11. They aren't offering any solutions that people can relate to.
 

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I think America is currently too conservative. That will change off course, as it always does. Liberals will have their day and then conservatives will have theirs again. It is a never ending cycle. I believe the generation of people that are interested in politics coming up are more liberal (the gen x's). They are in their 30's and government issues are more important to them now. So it will probably change soon. I actually believe that it will become extremely liberal because of this generation.
 

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I think popular conservatism (the neocon's outer party) has become too liberal. They favor social engineering and fiscal irresponsibility. Can't get much more liberal than that.

Ironically, liberals have become more conservative.

Go figure.
 

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Squawker said:
Hi amanda! :2wave:



I think the Liberals had their day and are on the way down in popularity. It just seems like liberalism has taken over because they are so loud and in your face.
Yeah, down in popularity, therefore we don't have power! We don't control anything. We don't control the legislature, the courts (75% republican), and the presidency. Yeah, America is controlled by the left. And if you want in your face-watch FOX.
 

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the liberal wave that spread during the Clinton era is susiding. conservative politicians control the house and senate while the Dems are constantly shooting themselves in the foot. they criticize the war on terror, social security, judicial nominations...anything, you name it. yet they have zero solutions for what they criticize. while i think a big part of the country is still very liberal, even they cant relate to people like Howard Dean, who trashes Republicans yet does nothing to advance his own party.

this is why people like John McCain and other moderate conservatives are becoming popular.
 
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Your crazy if you think america isn't too liberal. The media is enirely liberal. We may own the the courts, white house but libs own the media, which is the most important factor in the political game. I think the amount of liberals growing up today is really going to hurt america. The amount of liberal teens is a direct cause of the drop in military sign ups. If you want in your face, watch CNN.
 

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guns_God_glory said:
I think the amount of liberals growing up today is really going to hurt america. The amount of liberal teens is a direct cause of the drop in military sign ups,
Yeah, sure, if that is what you want to believe than so be it. But isn't it more rational to assume...THEY DON'T WANT TO BE KILLED?
 

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Liberal or Conservative it doesn't really matter - as Western societies as time goes on become more and more progressive.
Western societies find it very hard to go backwards - that's why conservatives cannot ban abortion or gay marriage - they don't have the power to.
 

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Comrade Brian said:
Ever hear of something called FOXNEWS?

and by the way most of the media is conservative
That's actually very ture. Even though the Media seems very liberal to most conseratives its really not as liberal as it could be.
 

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It should be noted that too often criticism of the current presidential administration is knee-jerkedly and inaccurately labelled liberal and that support for the admin is too often knee-jerkedly and inaccurately labelled conservative.

This admin is about as liberal as it gets on many issues.
 

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Let's take a look at some definitions.

con·ser·va·tive (kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.
*Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
*Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
*Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
*Of or relating to the political philosophy of conservatism.
*Belonging to a conservative party, group, or movement.
*Conservative Of or belonging to the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
*Conservative Of or adhering to Conservative Judaism.
*Tending to conserve; preservative: the conservative use of natural resources.
n.
*One favoring traditional views and values.
*A supporter of political conservatism.
*Conservative A member or supporter of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
*Archaic. A preservative agent or principle.

lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
*Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
*Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
*Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
*Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
*Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.
*Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
*Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.
n.
*A person with liberal ideas or opinions.
Liberal A member of a Liberal political party.


Alright. Now with that said...How exactly can America be too liberal?

-Are they too unlimited to established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas?
-Are they too free from bigotry?
-Are they too open to favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded?
-Do they have too much of a tendency to give freely; to be generous?

You see the issue I have is with the broad question, Is America too Liberal?

-Are you talking about North America?
-South America?
-Central America?

I happen to live in the United States of America. A land full of diverse views and opinions, all of which are equally Patriotic, because that is what the United States of America is all about. Anytime I hear someone say that a person is being Un-American because of their opinion, it strikes me as absurd. To be a citizen of the United States of America means they can have opinions and express them freely without retaliation. Unfortunately I'm seeing a lot of retaliation from both sides.

What makes me laugh is when I hear anyone demand an apology from a public figure for comments they made. Like **** Durbin or Karl Rove. Is what either of them said false? Doesn't matter...it was true to them. Conservatives have no right to demand an apology from Durbin and Liberals have no right to demand an apology from Rove. Both have every right to say them. An apology makes no difference either way except as an F.U. from the oposing party.

That's another thing. There's this strange stereotype out there that all Liberals are Democrats. That's about as far from the truth as humanly possible. Clumping tons of individuals into one minute category is silly. Then again, I'm probably just thinking too liberally.

The above definition of liberal really doesn't paint a bad picture of the idea. It actually promotes open-mindedness to new ideas and has a self-realization of not knowing everything. After all, how can you learn anything new, if you already know everything.

Were the founding fathers liberal or conservative? Well, from what I can tell from the above definitions...they were most definitely liberal. They apposed authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas. They were open to favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others. They were broad-minded.

Now they weren't perfect. Who the heck is?

My hope is that one day soon, we'll have more representatives that are somewhere in between. Until then, I'm stuck with this polarized, sixth-grade type bickering. It's just unbelievable, the rhetoric out there today.

Another question. Is the United States of America an idea or an institution? Just because we call ourselves an institution, doesn't make it so. The United States of America only exists because of the ideas of it's citizens.

The definitions above clearly show what makes a liberal and what makes a conservative. They have nothing to do with moral or ethical values. So many people claim to be one or the other because of what one supposedly represents. Being a Christian doesn't automatically make you Conservative. Being pro-choice doesn't automatically make you a Liberal.

Of course, the author of the definition was probably too liberal. Right?

-WR
 

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Simon W. Moon said:
This admin is about as liberal as it gets on many issues.
very true. it still sounds strange to me when people talk about how the Bush Admin. are all right-wing nuts, when in reality, their stance on just about everything aside from foreign policy and a couple other issues arent much different from their own.
 

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FiremanRyan said:
very true. it still sounds strange to me when people talk about how the Bush Admin. are all right-wing nuts, when in reality, their stance on just about everything aside from foreign policy and a couple other issues arent much different from their own.
That is because the Bush Administration is basically run by neo-cons, right wing when it comes to foreign policy, a bit liberal for domestic situtations.

Bush during the election didn't have the intention of banning same sex marriage nation wide - it sure did roll in the votes though, to hide his other domestic failures.
 

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Alright. Now with that said...How exactly can America be too liberal?

-Are they too unlimited to established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas?
-Are they too free from bigotry?
-Are they too open to favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded?
-Do they have too much of a tendency to give freely; to be generous?
That doesn't describe American liberals. Some people in the country adopted the word to justify their lack of morality.
 

Simon W. Moon

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GarzaUK said:
That is because the Bush Administration is basically run by neo-cons, right wing when it comes to foreign policy, a bit liberal for domestic situtations.
Their foreign policy is liberal, social-engineering and world cop wanting to enforce the authority of the UN (even against the UN's wishes).

GarzaUK said:
Bush during the election didn't have the intention of banning same sex marriage nation wide...
I actually agreed w/ **** Cheney on this one- the states should decide.
 

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WiseRufus said:
Were the founding fathers liberal or conservative? Well, from what I can tell from the above definitions...they were most definitely liberal. They apposed authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas. They were open to favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others. They were broad-minded.
They considered themselves liberal and left-wing even. The right-wing were those who wanted to continue the aristcratic privileges in England while the left-wing wanted to further democratize. Right-wingers were authoritarians who favored the power of the state and privileged classes over the rights of the individuals. Left-wingers championed the liberty and freedom of the common man (who was white, male, property owner yada yada)
Our Founding Fathers considered themselves to be liberal left-wingers.

Milton Friedman, one of Nixon's and Reagan's economic advisors, wrote an essay about this very thing. He said that as conservative as he was, he was what he called a classical liberal in the same sense as the Founding fathers used the term.

Of course, today the terms have been all humpty-dumptied multiple times, back and forth.
Team Bush is in favor of reckless fiscal policies, social engineering and increased government power, decreased public accountability, decreased personal responsibility, decreased personal liberty, and decreased American freedom. They're actively pushing for so much of what the Republican Revolution of recent decades was against.

I know I'm not the only conservative, GOP member who has realized, "We've met the enemy and he is us."
I go Pogo.
 
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Simon W. Moon said:
They considered themselves liberal and left-wing even. The right-wing were those who wanted to continue the aristcratic privileges in England while the left-wing wanted to further democratize. Right-wingers were authoritarians who favored the power of the state and privileged classes over the rights of the individuals. Left-wingers championed the liberty and freedom of the common man (who was white, male, property owner yada yada)
Our Founding Fathers considered themselves to be liberal left-wingers.

Milton Friedman, one of Nixon's and Reagan's economic advisors, wrote an essay about this very thing. He said that as conservative as he was, he was what he called a classical liberal in the same sense as the Founding fathers used the term.

Of course, today the terms have been all humpty-dumptied multiple times, back and forth.
Team Bush is in favor of reckless fiscal policies, social engineering and increased government power, decreased public accountability, decreased personal responsibility, decreased personal liberty, and decreased American freedom. They're actively pushing for so much of what the Republican Revolution of recent decades was against.

I know I'm not the only conservative, GOP member who has realized, "We've met the enemy and he is us."
I go Pogo.
Yes, yes, yes! What happened to balanced budgets? What happened to smaller government? Government that stays out of peoples personal lives. What happened to governmental responsibility? I've never been a member of any political party but I certainly used to side more with conservatives then I do currently. I now know what Reagan meant when he said "I didn't leave my party, my party left me."
 

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guns_God_glory said:
I think the amount of liberals growing up today is really going to hurt america. The amount of liberal teens is a direct cause of the drop in military sign ups.
Call me crazy, but the REAL reason people aren't signing up for the military is because they do not want to get killed in the sand of Iraq for NOTHING. I applaud anyone smart enough and BRAVE enough to look the military recruiter in the eye and tell him that joining the military in 2005 is way too risky. Why risk death for an unjust war?

When WWII started and continued for years the military had a draft AND they had no shortage of enlistees. Today, without a draft there is a severe shortage of enlistees. Why the difference? WWII was a cause the entire world believed in. Iraq is a cause a slim few believe in, and even the number of believers is decreasing every single day.

The TRUTH is apparent to most of America, and most of the world, and the proof is clearly underlined by the inability of Bushies to get people to join their war. They've raised the sign on bonus and LOWERED the standards and they still can't come close to meeting their monthly goals which were revised down.

The really awful thing is that the Selective Service is now scouring the records of boys as young as 16 years old. They have their SS #'s, their email addresses and even THEIR GRADES! Why grades you ask? In all of it's infinite wisdom our wonderful government makes an extra hard appeal to the worst students in America to get them to enlist. The "best and brightest" recruiting theme has been replaced with "anyone at all".

How come no members of Congress have any of their children in the Military? Can anyone explain that? How come The Bush twins haven't enlisted? If Elvis could serve in the Army why not the Bush twins? Wouldn't that be a great recruiting tool? God knows he needs one...
It's been over a year since they graduated, but neither of the Bush twins has been able to find work. Why don't they sign up? Do they hate America or just freedom in general?" --Bill Maher, calling for advocates of the Iraq war to enlist in the army
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Call me crazy, but the REAL reason people aren't signing up for the military is because they do not want to get killed in the sand of Iraq for NOTHING. I applaud anyone smart enough and BRAVE enough to look the military recruiter in the eye and tell him that joining the military in 2005 is way too risky. Why risk death for an unjust war?

When WWII started and continued for years the military had a draft AND they had no shortage of enlistees. Today, without a draft there is a severe shortage of enlistees. Why the difference? WWII was a cause the entire world believed in. Iraq is a cause a slim few believe in, and even the number of believers is decreasing every single day.

The TRUTH is apparent to most of America, and most of the world, and the proof is clearly underlined by the inability of Bushies to get people to join their war. They've raised the sign on bonus and LOWERED the standards and they still can't come close to meeting their monthly goals which were revised down.

The really awful thing is that the Selective Service is now scouring the records of boys as young as 16 years old. They have their SS #'s, their email addresses and even THEIR GRADES! Why grades you ask? In all of it's infinite wisdom our wonderful government makes an extra hard appeal to the worst students in America to get them to enlist. The "best and brightest" recruiting theme has been replaced with "anyone at all".

How come no members of Congress have any of their children in the Military? Can anyone explain that? How come The Bush twins haven't enlisted? If Elvis could serve in the Army why not the Bush twins? Wouldn't that be a great recruiting tool? God knows he needs one...
I thought there was one member of Congress who did have a son serving in Iraq?



Where did you find the info on the SS getting kids grades?



I do find it odd that with so many being in such support for this war (I know the support is waning, but sill a lot of folks think this is a great idea) why don't these folks sign up? If you can't sign up why not at least make an effort to volunteer at your local guard unit. There's stuff the ave. citizen can do such to help the Guard- help family members move, provide transportation for visiting guard members, plan organize cook outs and parties. There are all kinds of stuff people could do. In fact you don't have to agree with the Iraq war and you can still do these things. Just because you disagree with the Admin's policy it's no reason you can't help and support our troops.
 

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Pacridge said:
Where did you find the info on the SS getting kids grades?
Perhaps here:

Pentagon Creating Student Database
Recruiting Tool For Military Raises Privacy Concerns
Apparently, lowering recruitment goals wasn't enough.

Pacridge said:
I do find it odd that with so many being in such support for this war (I know the support is waning, but sill a lot of folks think this is a great idea) why don't these folks sign up?
Young Republicans support Iraq war, but not all are willing to join the fight

"Frankly, I want to be a politician. I'd like to survive to see that,"
"As long as there's a steady stream of volunteers, I don't see why I necessarily should volunteer,
"If there was a need presented, I would go,"​
 

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FiremanRyan said:
the liberal wave that spread during the Clinton era is susiding. conservative politicians control the house and senate while the Dems are constantly shooting themselves in the foot. they criticize the war on terror, social security, judicial nominations...anything, you name it. yet they have zero solutions for what they criticize. while i think a big part of the country is still very liberal, even they cant relate to people like Howard Dean, who trashes Republicans yet does nothing to advance his own party.

this is why people like John McCain and other moderate conservatives are becoming popular.
What liberal wave during the Clinton years? Clinton was dead center ideologically.

He never proposed a single budget with more than 3% growth over the previous year. Bush on the other hand has averaged 8% growth in his budgets and Reagan averaged 11% growth in his budget proposals. During the Clinton years, NAFTA was passed and an immense amount of deregulation was instituted. What was that liberal agenda of the Clinton years?

You guys on the right just don’t get it and that’s why you have never managed to stay in power for long period of time. Most people hate ideology, and that’s all the right ever offers anymore. That’s why they like McCain, because by and large he is a pragmatist. That’s why they liked Clinton so much because by and large he was a pragmatist. I mean do you guys honestly believe that Joe southerner votes Republican because he believes in the principles of Supply Side Economics? I am from the south, and that isn’t the case, Joe Southerner votes Republican because the Republicans tell him that if that if he votes Democrat, gays will get to marry each other and his guns will get taken away. Its wedge issues that Republicans win on these days, not their core ideology and that is why Bush has such consistently poor approval numbers. People get scared, they vote for him, but they really don’t like how he runs the country. Contrast this with the Clinton years, people thought Clinton was an adulterer, but they really did like how he ran the country. Despite all the smear the Republicans through at him (remember the supposed Trouper-Gate or him supposedly giving spots at the National Cemetery to his contributors), Clinton consistently managed to have record high approval ratings.

I mean you right wingers are criticizing the Democrats for no solutions. They are not the party in power, they can’t get their solutions passed. No one likes those Republican solutions at all; Social Security reform is absolutely dead in the water. I mean look at what Bush offered up. Basically it was “Social Security may run into financial trouble at some point in the future and as a result it is possible that benefits may be cut if we don’t do something. So I propose that you agree to a guaranteed cut in benefits.” Really hasn’t sold to well. Wow, imagine that. This war in Iraq, people just love that, I mean gosh a war for nothing but ideological reasons, wonder why the support for it is so low now? Oh and lets not forget interfering with personal decisions at the federal level, that whole fiasco over a woman in Florida who we now know after the autopsy was practically brain dead, blind, and had no hope at all for any improvement. I can go on and on here.

The thing is, most people want two things out of the government: they want the government to largely stay out of their wallets, and they want the government to largely stay out of their personal lives. Basically, they want low taxes and beer on Sunday. Now Democrats have not been that great at times at staying out of folks wallets, but the old Big Brother Republicans cant seem to stay out of our lives at all. Right now, you have 20% of so of the population, the fundies, pretty much designing the whole GOP social platform. If they get their way, you can forget about your beer on Sunday, boobies on the internet, and keeping the government out of your bedroom, and when push comes to shove, average Joe American would take cold beer and boobies on the internet over a small tax cut any day. And that is why folks like moderates like Clinton and John McCain.
 
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