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Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

American

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I don't think it's clear yet about the story bet/ him and the NSA, but Snowden telling the Chinese the we've been hacking their systems is not cool. I have no sympathy for China, they have spent gazillions on their own hacking capabilities.
 

John Liberty

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I don't think it's clear yet about the story bet/ him and the NSA, but Snowden telling the Chinese the we've been hacking their systems is not cool. I have no sympathy for China, they have spent gazillions on their own hacking capabilities.

He told Americans that their government was spying on them and compromising their rights. He leaked it to Americans not China. Get your facts straight please.
 

American

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He told Americans that their government was spying on them and compromising their rights. He leaked it to Americans not China. Get your facts straight please.

He ALSO revealed that the NSA had been conducting hacking operations against the Chinese.
 

CanadaJohn

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He ALSO revealed that the NSA had been conducting hacking operations against the Chinese.

True, but do you think they didn't know? The revelation, although perhaps it shouldn't have been a big surprise, was that the government was collecting data on all Americans, not just an identified few.
 

tererun

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I don't think it's clear yet about the story bet/ him and the NSA, but Snowden telling the Chinese the we've been hacking their systems is not cool. I have no sympathy for China, they have spent gazillions on their own hacking capabilities.

I am pretty sure the chinese knew that. It is part of the whole spy thing. Just like I am pretty sure most real al queda knows the US is watching their communications which is why they talk in code. Snowden did not reveal a single thing those people did not already know. What he did reveal to a bunch of rather ignorant people called US citizens is that our government was spying on us. Trust me, every other country does exactly what we do, which is try to keep our systems secure from spying, under the knowledge that spying and hacking are a fact of existence in this world between rival powers. Even our own corporations protect against spying they know is ever present. Snowden has not endangered a single person outside of the US government's citizen watch program. Our government doesn't want him because he told the chinese we are spying on them. They want him because he told us.

You finally have yourself a real and much more serious obamagate, and you are out for the blood of the witness who told us. Aren't you even the slightest bit concerned that the republicans are attacking the guy who has the info to down obama? Are you going to actually trust obama to spy on you? Are you now an Obama crony? You want him to be able to spy on us? because this is what it seems like when you try to attack the guy who ratted him out.
 

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I don't think it's clear yet about the story bet/ him and the NSA, but Snowden telling the Chinese the we've been hacking their systems is not cool.

Quelle difference? China already knew it :rolleyes:
 

solletica

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Snowden is condemning the same institution he worked for; he feels guilty about having worked for it. That's why he came clean.

The "I want to do something good for my country" line is BS. Everyone from coast-to-coast who bothered to pick up a decent newspaper (obviously not palin) knew the NSA had a massive snooping facility waaaaaaaay before Snowden's "revelation", even if they didn't know that it was called.

Snowden did the honorable thing, but the real sadness in his heart is for having been on the other side.

And in fact, because he was on the other side, he should be punished.
 

tererun

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Snowden is condemning the same institution he worked for; he feels guilty about having worked for it. That's why he came clean.

The "I want to do something good for my country" line is BS. Everyone from coast-to-coast who bothered to pick up a decent newspaper (obviously not palin) knew the NSA had a massive snooping facility waaaaaaaay before Snowden's "revelation", even if they didn't know that it was called.

Snowden did the honorable thing, but the real sadness in his heart is for having been on the other side.

And in fact, because he was on the other side, he should be punished.

They are not punishing him because he was on the spying side, they are punishing him because he hurt the spying side. Of course, if they want to punish the people who are spying without any regard for things like judicial review, the proper acquisition of evidence, and the BS removal of rights for anyone who they arbitrarily label as a threat to national security I would be cool with that. I am also aware that the justice system often needs to have some way of getting witnesses and the threat of punishment for a whistleblower certainly works against getting a person to come clean and implicate their people for what they do.
 

American

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True, but do you think they didn't know? The revelation, although perhaps it shouldn't have been a big surprise, was that the government was collecting data on all Americans, not just an identified few.

I think I've made my feelings known about spying on Americans, here and elsewhere.
 

ttwtt78640

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The NSA, and other U.S. gov't agencies, are involved in SIGINT which is no secret at all, it is the very basis for the NSA. Whether the nature of classified information "bothers" a person is not considered an excuse for publically releasing that information. The disclosure of classified information is a crime not mitigated by the alleged motives for its release. If one party of a communication is suspected to be a "terrorist" then the further examination of this activity is legal under the Patriot Act (Title II), FISA and/or EPCA.

Signals intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NSA/CSS Mission, Vision, Values - NSA/CSS

Patriot Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

DaveFagan

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He ALSO revealed that the NSA had been conducting hacking operations against the Chinese.


And that General being investigated leaked the "STUXNET" virus info. Why isn't he in jail, or hounded? Clapper and McCullough lied indirectly to you, under oath, and they have not been arrested.
 

John Liberty

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The NSA, and other U.S. gov't agencies, are involved in SIGINT which is no secret at all, it is the very basis for the NSA. Whether the nature of classified information "bothers" a person is not considered an excuse for publically releasing that information. The disclosure of classified information is a crime not mitigated by the alleged motives for its release. If one party of a communication is suspected to be a "terrorist" then the further examination of this activity is legal under the Patriot Act (Title II), FISA and/or EPCA.

Signals intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NSA/CSS Mission, Vision, Values - NSA/CSS

Patriot Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He didn't exactly leak "sensitive" info. It does not leak our national security in any way. He was merely telling the people
what they DESERVED to know. Even if it was somewhat common knowledge, it's always better to have confirmation.
 

ttwtt78640

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True, but do you think they didn't know? The revelation, although perhaps it shouldn't have been a big surprise, was that the government was collecting data on all Americans, not just an identified few.

By definition, SIGINT involves the monitoring of communications; the more sources the better, naturally. What communications are chosen to be recorded has indeed been greatly expanded but what is allowed to be further examined in detail (content viewed) is still limitted by law. The mere possibility of examining the content, in detail, of all US communications systems (analog/digital both clear and encrypted) even using the world's fastest computers, makes this virtually impossible - it is still legally limitted to an identified few "persons of interest" on at least one end of the selected communications.
 

ttwtt78640

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He didn't exactly leak "sensitive" info. It does not leak our national security in any way. He was merely telling the people
what they DESERVED to know. Even if it was somewhat common knowledge, it's always better to have confirmation.

You know this how? What are the criminal charges for which extradition is being sought?
 

John Liberty

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You know this how? What are the criminal charges for which extradition is being sought?

How does the information that America is spying on U.S citizens affect Russians? How does it leave us vulnerable to attack? Please explain this to me.
 

ttwtt78640

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How does the information that America is spying on U.S citizens affect Russians? How does it leave us vulnerable to attack? Please explain this to me.

Since I have nothing to do with these charges, I obviously cannot explain them to you. You are the one making the assumption that simply stating the extent of communications intercepted by the NSA is the only issue, so you must first substantiate that "fact".

Snowden charged with espionage, theft in NSA case
 

tererun

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The NSA, and other U.S. gov't agencies, are involved in SIGINT which is no secret at all, it is the very basis for the NSA. Whether the nature of classified information "bothers" a person is not considered an excuse for publically releasing that information. The disclosure of classified information is a crime not mitigated by the alleged motives for its release. If one party of a communication is suspected to be a "terrorist" then the further examination of this activity is legal under the Patriot Act (Title II), FISA and/or EPCA.

Signals intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NSA/CSS Mission, Vision, Values - NSA/CSS

Patriot Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So just because there is a law makes what the laws say right in your mind. So why have any liberty at all? Since the government is always right in your mind we should just make protesting and disagreeing with the government illegal and then declare a national party in control of everything and that would be perfectly fine because it is backed up by law. If all we have to do to make truth is consecrate it in law to make it correct then let us consecrate it in law.

It is a feeble excuse to fall back on obviously corrupt laws that violate the very foundation of the protection of the citizens against the government that were established for us in the constitution to protect our freedoms and liberties. I find it even more amazing how so many Obama haters are perfectly fine with him being able to just have the NSA issue their own warrants to look at every communication you make. You won't trust him to give you health care, to command the IRS, or to deal with benghazi, but giving him the power to spy on you with no oversight and you march right in and sign up to be a good citizen for him. Yes, of course they are going to seek snowden's head because he endangered their secrecy with the american people who to my surprise were way to trusting of the government, but that does not make it right to do.

It really does amaze me how little you do think about these things. Some people are worried obama is coming for their guns. What stops him from looking up your history to find out you research guns a lot and declaring you are a terrorist or school shooter? I hope you have not looked up any cooking ideas using a pressure cooker. Did you go to any of those tax free tea party websites that he has supposedly targeted? Because if he is the big bad republicans claim he is then that information is right there for him to get on you, and all he has to do is have the NSA issue their own warrant through a secret FISA court that works with them and considers the people a threat, not a protected class of citizens. It is a dangerous power for any president to hold, but i figured i would use obama as you seem to love him so much now all of a sudden.

To protect us against the terrorists you are willing to give up every right and freedom americans have had and create a tyrannical big brother simply because the law makes it correct. There are not many obama supporters who want this power in his hands, but you are buddy buddy with him enough to allow him the overwhelming power to remove your most basic protections from the government. i will give you this much, at least you are consistent with your hatred of your own protections.
 

tererun

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Just the same, did Americans not know that the NSA was monitoring phone lines?

I would assume criminals did, but it would seem regular people were quite unaware this was actually going on. The only thing I find odd is it seems the Obama haters knew it was going on yet mysteriously trust him to do the right thing. It is not a power I would give a elected position which might fall into unscrupulous hands like a politician.
 

ttwtt78640

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So just because there is a law makes what the laws say right in your mind. {snip remaining rant}[?QUOTE]

Obviously we should all break the laws, that we do not agree with, and then quickly flee the country to avoid prosecution. That is the sure sign of an honest person with strong priciples and the will to back them up. If he was the "hero" that you allege, then why did he not simply state his concern and await his exoneration (jury nullification or even sainthood) in jail?
 

ttwtt78640

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I would assume criminals did, but it would seem regular people were quite unaware this was actually going on. The only thing I find odd is it seems the Obama haters knew it was going on yet mysteriously trust him to do the right thing. It is not a power I would give a elected position which might fall into unscrupulous hands like a politician.

Do you not know how to use the internet?

Patriot Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Electronic Communications Privacy Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NSA/CSS Mission, Vision, Values - NSA/CSS
 

Surtr

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I would assume criminals did, but it would seem regular people were quite unaware this was actually going on. The only thing I find odd is it seems the Obama haters knew it was going on yet mysteriously trust him to do the right thing. It is not a power I would give a elected position which might fall into unscrupulous hands like a politician.

The NSA wiretapping scandal began in 2001. It had even been revealed that the NSA had a contract with several large telecommunications companies that allowed the monitoring and tracking of calls without wiretaps. This has been ongoing for 12 years, and nothing new was revealed. Americans just have pathetically short memory spans.
 

tererun

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The NSA wiretapping scandal began in 2001. It had even been revealed that the NSA had a contract with several large telecommunications companies that allowed the monitoring and tracking of calls without wiretaps. This has been ongoing for 12 years, and nothing new was revealed. Americans just have pathetically short memory spans.

I would not say that. i would say americans were presented with the idea that the NSA would only be tapping people who were considered a threat. Most people have a faith that they are off the radar for being either really small time, or not criminal at all. This gives them the sort of idea that whoever gets hit made a mistake and was either associating with or participating as some sort of criminal. It was even presented to them that a "court" would be presiding over the warrants just like normal. They also have this view that if wronged they would carry the rights of a citizen which would protect them from the illegally seized information being used improperly against them. I agree they were wrong and really stupid to think that is the case, but most people are not investigators or even well educated on politics.

I don't really consider myself on the well educated side of politics when compared to real investigative reporters, people who participate in the system, or even many ameteur political geeks. Still, most people i have talked to get their information from MSM which is terrible. They are relying on the investigative reporters of the MSM to do their fact finding for them, and they barely realize the MSM is so hand in hand with the liars now. Even the people who make good arguments against the MSM have been made to look like tinfoil hat loonies by certain MSM media hacks who toss around crazy conspiracies with facts they wish to discredit. So how are the people who have no clue about how bad things are, no desire to find out, and no time to do the research if they did supposed to get the information they need when their trusted sources are part of the problem? Most people are not bright, and so they trust places like the news.

this one is up to the people to get the word out because the news cannot be trusted on any side. they may fight over certain things, but they are circling all the wagons around Snowden needing to be silenced. The people were lied to by the news, and are still being lied to. Of course the politicians lied, it is their job, but people still believe them for some strange reason.
 
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