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Amazon follows the money — to the Swamp

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wisconsin-...ry?id=59166523



First Bezo's buys a newspaper to leverage himself toward molding opinion and influencing of publicity whores and decision makers in government, now they want their HQ as close as possible to the DC power center to hire ex officials to game the economic system for them and grease the wheels of Amazon, Inc. New York City is part of DC as far as policy and influence goes, and for Amazon it is close enough.

We have been asleep for the last 40 years, as monopolies have suffocated the country. Amazon is only the most egregious in it's drive to make humans compete with robots, not to improve its humans, but to improve its robots. The other facet of the elitist jewel is "big data", selling advertising paths to our subconscious based on what we discuss in private in our correspondence and searches.

The rats in the maze have it better. They get a food pellet at the end. Welcome to your future.

Crystal City?

After WWII and as the CIA was being stood up, this monster cyclops called the military industrial complex stood up with it. If you drive around the DC suburbs (including Crystal City, though that's not suburban) you will see hundreds, maybe thousands of companies that have work spaces there, because "that's where the money is". General Dynamics has an entire campus right outside a marine base. Raytheon, Lockheed, etc. have multiple large campuses. Contractors, subcontractors, companies that do nothing but locate contractors and rent them out or place them (Booze Allen is a big one). Over 40,000 people live/work at Fort Meade (NSA) right between DC and Baltimore.

Great place if you're an engineer, lol. Worked for me. And I never even did pure defense stuff.
 
OK, at least it appears that NY was that smart. Such 'deals' often include free, or at least tax free, property and improvements.
Deblasio didnt want to give any such handouts. He was advertising new york solely on "we got an awesome workforce, we arent giving you squat" for a long time. It was the governor who was bending over backwards.

I think he caved because of the governor, and because he got his "union only builders" demand. I didnt know about this scaling condition, but bravo, states and cities have been played far too long by these corporations. At least new york put in a safeguard this time, hopefully it will be a model for the rest of the country going forward.

I find it hilarious and saddening when massively profitable companies and sports teams strong arm citizens for more profit. Capitalism is great when it is properly utilized, but we have to remember that the motto of individual capitalists is profit at any cost and that profit is rarely shared. We have to make rules to ensure it works for us. The completely free, lawless market is a dog eat dog world that will not work for the majority of society.
 
Plenty, if it got a 'deal' based on adding 50K jobs in each location. Much like if I put in a bid for building you a 20' x 40' deck, get a material draw and then say for the same price that I will now only build you a 20' x 20' deck.

I don't believe they got a deal based on 50K jobs in each location. Even if they did, that is bad dealing on the part of the localities if they made a deal for 50K and only got 25K. My god, these people are supposed to be up on this stuff. That's their job. How can you make a deal that lets the other side screw you without an out? In any event, even if the localities didn't get what they paid for, they're still ahead. They got 25 K jobs and they didn't have to pay anything and all parties are still better off than they were before. Even if the feds and the locals don't get any corporate taxes, they get all kinds of other tax revenues that they did not have before.
 
I don't believe they got a deal based on 50K jobs in each location. Even if they did, that is bad dealing on the part of the localities if they made a deal for 50K and only got 25K. My god, these people are supposed to be up on this stuff. That's their job. How can you make a deal that lets the other side screw you without an out? In any event, even if the localities didn't get what they paid for, they're still ahead. They got 25 K jobs and they didn't have to pay anything and all parties are still better off than they were before.

If those jobs come with a cost of billions in tax breaks then there is a cost unless billions in government spending is cut. I have heard of a vast difference in the incentives (bribes?) offered between VA and NY for essentially the same number of promised jobs.

Amazon does not create additional product sales they simply compete with other existing businesses for those product sales. Let that fact sink in a bit and then decide, honestly, if Amazon's competitors will not lose as many, if not more, jobs than Amazon 'creates'.
 

The article you posted has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. You complain Amazon has some politicians in his pocket. Again Murdoch and Koch have The entire GOP and the WhiteHouse and No S.C in their pocket, so why not complain about that.

Also 6 out of 8 years of Obama and the last two years Trump with the republican Congress and we have passed zero legislation to regulate things and on fast track to remove even more regulation.

Is like You are screaming that the patient has a paper while ignoring the fact that he has his neck cut open ear to ear!

Diving Mullah
 
The article you posted has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. You complain Amazon has some politicians in his pocket. Again Murdoch and Koch have The entire GOP and the WhiteHouse and No S.C in their pocket, so why not complain about that.

Also 6 out of 8 years of Obama and the last two years Trump with the republican Congress and we have passed zero legislation to regulate things and on fast track to remove even more regulation.

Is like You are screaming that the patient has a paper while ignoring the fact that he has his neck cut open ear to ear!

Diving Mullah

You need to re read my OP carefully. It has nothing to do with Koch, Murdock, or the tooth fairy.
 
Amazon is wonderful. Right up until the next round of major stores close after Christmas.

Amazon was clearly a really stupid thing to tolerate a long time ago, they have always intended to be the company store that has the power to rip us off, that never should have been OK.

Amazon is a prime example of how America does not work anymore.

That most people think the opposite proves our ignorance.

As if we needed more proof of that!

WE USED TO BE BETTER
 
Amazon was clearly a really stupid thing to tolerate a long time ago, they have always intended to be the company store that has the power to rip us off, that never should have been OK.

Amazon is a prime example of how America does not work anymore.

That most people think the opposite proves our ignorance.

As if we needed more proof of that!

WE USED TO BE BETTER
Nothing new. Walmart 2.0

Except unlike walmart it can only screw you once, and not twice when they move out of towns that it stripped of all jobs, wages, and wealth.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/09/what-happened-when-walmart-left
 
Nothing new. Walmart 2.0

Except unlike walmart it can only screw you once, and not twice when they move out of towns that it stripped of all jobs, wages, and wealth.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/09/what-happened-when-walmart-left

This is likely worse than you know.

We should have figured some things out with the experience of Walmart.

But we never did because we never cared enough, we are increasingly dumb, and we are increasingly immoral.









CHEERS!
















barf
 
Meanwhile, 25000 jobs have been created in DC and another 25,000 in NY along with the economic benefits of that, including MORE taxes collected (several different kinds of taxes).

Why didn't they move to upstate New York where people really need economic stimulus? It's about access to political power. Bezo's knows his number is coming up. You can't have retail consolidation under Amazon, plus robotics (from China), at the same time stripping all of the middle infrastructure from "farm to fork". I hate to break it to you, but a large part of our economy depends on us consumers paying for the "middleman". Under Amazon, as they make deals direct with the factory, the only middleman will be the delivery service.

The good news: I needed some temperature resistant wire for my pellet stove thermostat. Other than troll the heating and air shops, Amazon had it in 16ft lengths. Lucky me, problem over killed but solved.

The bad news: I went to Walmart to buy some retina melting headlight bulbs since it's best to replace them both at once. They were all out of the good ones. I asked a manager type why. He said, "The were a slow seller and they seem to wander off in people's pockets, so we stopped bothering with them".

We elect politicians to solve these problems for us. But instead, they retire and join the other side for a fat new job. Sign in Amazon's HQ: "Who's in your wallet?"

One last thing. What about Amazon's Seattle HQ? In May, Seattle decided to enact an Amazon Tax.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018...eattles-amazon-tax-isnt-actually-over/562019/

Last month, Seattle’s city council unanimously passed a controversial new tax on businesses to fund affordable housing and homeless initiatives in the city. The bill became known as the “Amazon tax,” because of threats by Amazon to halt new construction if the tax passed, but many other companies, too, warned that it would stifle business development in the city.

"So yeah, FU Seattle, FU affordability, and FU homeless, and the liberals will still love you because you hate Trump!" LOL
 
Why didn't they move to upstate New York where people really need economic stimulus? It's about access to political power. Bezo's knows his number is coming up. You can't have retail consolidation under Amazon, plus robotics (from China), at the same time stripping all of the middle infrastructure from "farm to fork". I hate to break it to you, but a large part of our economy depends on us consumers paying for the "middleman". Under Amazon, as they make deals direct with the factory, the only middleman will be the delivery service.

Amazon is not a social welfare program. It went to NYC because that is where the talent is. The highly skilled tech workers, who can command salaries of $100 000 or more. They can choose to live in what ever city they want because they currently can find jobs fairly easily. I doubt many of them want to live in upstate New York, as opposeed to NYC. I expect Amazon would have had a very hard time getting enough talent (ie over 20 000 to move to Buffalo in comparison to the 300 000 potential candidates already living in NYC
 
Amazon was clearly a really stupid thing to tolerate a long time ago, they have always intended to be the company store that has the power to rip us off, that never should have been OK.

Amazon is a prime example of how America does not work anymore.

That most people think the opposite proves our ignorance.

As if we needed more proof of that!

WE USED TO BE BETTER

Nothing new. Walmart 2.0

Except unlike walmart it can only screw you once, and not twice when they move out of towns that it stripped of all jobs, wages, and wealth.

This childish petulance is really astounding. A company brings a lot of high-paying jobs to an area, boosting the local economy's wealth, causing tax rolls to swell and real estate prices to rise, causing all sorts of economic effects people everywhere naturally want, and the company is nevertheless ruthlessly attacked for contributing to housing unaffordability and homelessness. They leave the area, and they're attacked for depriving the community of all those wonderful economic effects they brought to town.

There is bad with the good in every conceivable scenario.
 
This childish petulance is really astounding. A company brings a lot of high-paying jobs to an area, boosting the local economy's wealth, causing tax rolls to swell and real estate prices to rise, causing all sorts of economic effects people everywhere naturally want, and the company is nevertheless ruthlessly attacked for contributing to housing unaffordability and homelessness. They leave the area, and they're attacked for depriving the community of all those wonderful economic effects they brought to town.

There is bad with the good in every conceivable scenario.
I was talking about Walmart in that post.

Walmart brought high paying jobs? Seriously?

It came into a town, destroyed most of the mom and pop businesses, reduced competition for workers as it was a huge chunk of the job market, and reduced wages due to less employer competition.

That lead to a town that was too poor for Walmart to remain open so it leaves a town without many shops and services, which take time to rebuild, especially in that condition.... what good did it do? Did you even think about the reality or was that all speculative fantasy?
 
I was talking about Walmart in that post.

No, you were talking about Amazon.

"Except unlike Walmart it can only screw you once, and not twice when they move out of towns that it stripped of all jobs, wages, and wealth..."

This is Kshama Sawant-esque petulant communist anti-business rhetoric. Amazon will be attacked for anything it does, or anywhere it goes. It literally could not possibly do anything good. If it creates jobs and produces good economic effects, it's chastised for making things unaffordable. If it does the opposite, it's chastised for causing economic misery. If it pays warehouse box shufflers relatively low wages, it's chastised for making people do jobs that suck. If it automates those jobs, it's chastised for destroying labor.
Amazon could simply close its doors and stop doing business and it'd be attacked for destroying jobs.

This attitude is childish. It's actually reminiscent of clinical depression, the way it so diligently seeks out only the worst sides of any scenario.
 
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No, you were talking about Amazon.

"Except unlike Walmart..."
Yes, unlike walmart amazon cant hurt you by leaving.... so your issue with my post doesnt apply to amazon.

Walmart is the one that hurts people twice. Although the first hurt of destroying mom and pop shops which damages the local economy applies to both
 
I get that, but the things he is blaming Trump for not doing, no one else has tried to do either. No president in our country has done anything. If anything the video is more “whataboutism”. We need Trump to get bipartisan support energize the justice department to get cracking on anti trust, but as long as the tech giants are supporting on one side or the other, there will never be bipartisan support.

Tech isn’t making computers any more, it is in control of everything we view and most of what we read.

The thing is, I haven't seen one indication from Trump that he is any way, shape, or form, attempting to drain the swamp. In fact, all I see from him are attempts to expand it as quickly as he can. For evidence, I would suggest the huge tax breaks he gave himself, his family, and his ultra rich buddies, while saddling the middle class and poor with the debt, as well as all the "swamp beasts" he has hired for top positions in the government.

So what makes you believe that Trump is suddenly going to start caring about draining the swamp, and doing anything that helps the common man, unless it also helps him (And those two things don't usually coincide, see Trump University)?


And finally, all the legislation I've seen from the Trump administration is weakening consumer and environmental protection, not strengthening it. What makes you think his administration is going to change course 180 degrees?
 
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Yes, unlike walmart amazon cant hurt you by leaving.... so your issue with my post doesnt apply to amazon.

Walmart is the one that hurts people twice. Although the first hurt of destroying mom and pop shops which damages the local economy applies to both

Ok, I misread which one of the companies you were claiming "hurts you twice," but in either case, whether it's Walmart or Amazon, the complaints are the same. Anti-business leftists in Seattle, such as Kshama Sawant for example, howl about how evil Amazon is whether they stay or leave, the same way you howl that Walmart hurts economies by existing there as well by not existing there.

It's petulant to whine about a company staying as well as leaving. It just reveals ideological anti-business claptrap.
 
Ok, I misread which one of the companies you were claiming "hurts you twice," but in either case, whether it's Walmart or Amazon, the complaints are the same. Anti-business leftists in Seattle, such as Kshama Sawant for example, howl about how evil Amazon is whether they stay or leave, the same way you howl that Walmart hurts economies by existing there as well by not existing there.

It's petulant to whine about a company staying as well as leaving. It just reveals ideological anti-business claptrap.
The companies arent evil. They are doing exactly what companies are supposed to do. Sure providing a useful service is something they accomplish, but the primary goal is maximizing profit for its owner or shareholders. Theres nothing wrong with that.

However, we as a society have to look out for our citizens just like the companies look out for their owners. It is our fault for not making rules and standards for these businesses to function by that benefit the whole. Unnecessary rules are bad, but a lawless wild west isnt that good either. (Wild west wasnt actually all that lawless).

I put the blame on our leadership, not the companies. And no I dont think the free market will accomplish this, especially with the war on unions expecting individual workers to be able to negotiate on equal footing with the handful of goliath employers.
 
But subsidies for companies is usually a right wing play. Liberitarians are against corporate giveaways but republicans in general are all about being business friendly and bending over backwards.

I'm actually surprised about new york since deblasio was saying he wouldnt give them a dime for a very long time, but this is usually a Republican M.O.

Look a little closer and it will cease to be surprising. Ask yourself to what special interest group are De Blasio and Cuomo are beholden, and see whether they are going to benefit from this...

Why Is New York Paying Amazon More Than Virginia? -- You’ll find the answer in who’s doing the construction.

At the news conference announcing Amazon’s decision to locate in Queens, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio said, “You’re going to see union jobs in construction.

...there is nothing in the agreement between New York and Amazon that calls for the company to use union labor to build its new headquarters. Indeed, given chief executive Jeff Bezos’s libertarian bent, and Amazon’s tendency to use technology to keep costs down, it seems likely that it wouldn’t use the construction unions.

But it was quite clear from the remarks of the mayor and the governor that the unions are going to get this job. In other words, no longer able to compete in the marketplace, the construction unions are using their political allies to land a big job they would probably not get otherwise. In effect, Amazon is being used as a pass-through to send $1 billion in tax dollars to the construction unions.

Blame unions for New York’s pricey giveaway to Amazon
 
Look a little closer and it will cease to be surprising. Ask yourself to what special interest group are De Blasio and Cuomo are beholden, and see whether they are going to benefit from this...

Why Is New York Paying Amazon More Than Virginia? -- You’ll find the answer in who’s doing the construction.



Blame unions for New York’s pricey giveaway to Amazon
What's wrong with unions? They represent workers. I think that was a major concession by amazon. That wasnt the surprise I was talking about. The war on unions is one of the biggest follies of the right wing. What made the mindless factory jobs of the 70s able to achieve the American dream were the unions.

I think flipping burgers takes more work then factory work involving putting thing A into slot B on repeat. At least burger flippers often have to also deal with impatient customers. Supporting unions is a good thing.
 
Meanwhile, 25000 jobs have been created in DC and another 25,000 in NY along with the economic benefits of that, including MORE taxes collected (several different kinds of taxes).

Real estate prices and cost of living in the DC metro area were already through the roof. This move by Amazon is going to make it even worse. No one but Jeff Bezos himself will be able to live there anymore.
 
What's wrong with unions? They represent workers.

How innocent sounding. Are you going to play naive about the influence of labor unions in New York City and the influence they have over the mayor and governor?

I think that was a major concession by amazon. That wasnt the surprise I was talking about. The war on unions is one of the biggest follies of the right wing.

This isn't about that, or factory workers or burger flippers you started to talk about. With all the recent rhetoric about how this is all "corporate welfare," I think it's important to be willing to look a little deeper into it and see who's benefiting. If you're surprised that De Blasio and Cuomo would go for such a thing, then look and see whose pocket they're in, and how that special interest group stands to benefit.
 
How innocent sounding. Are you going to play naive about the influence of labor unions in New York City and the influence they have over the mayor and governor?



This isn't about that, or factory workers or burger flippers you started to talk about. With all the recent rhetoric about how this is all "corporate welfare," I think it's important to be willing to look a little deeper into it and see who's benefiting. If you're surprised that De Blasio and Cuomo would go for such a thing, then look and see whose pocket they're in, and how that special interest group stands to benefit.
I would prefer politicians be in the pockets of unions then corporations. As I said, unions represent the workers, aka the people. (Not a handful of people who are already rolling in more money then most of us can imagine).

What is so horrible about unions in comparisons? They fight for better wages and safer work conditions. Is it surprising to you that nonunion construction sites have far more fatalities and injuries then union sites? Is reducing deaths somehow an evil goal?

I'm glad unions have sway with these politicians cause in the age of money = speech, most individual people cant afford that kind of speech. We need the collective voice and funds of a union.
 
I would prefer politicians be in the pockets of unions then corporations.

I would have figured, but in this case the politicians ARE in the pockets of labor unions, and there is evidence that special treatment for unions was part of the formula and rationale for these politicians offering what has been called corporate welfare to Amazon. Complaining about corporate welfare to Amazon rings pretty hollow to me when the underlying agenda was to union coffers.

As I said, unions represent the workers, aka the people.

No, you cannot conflate the people unions represent with the people generally.

What is so horrible about unions in comparisons?

The point of this isn’t to debate whether unions are good or bad in general.
 
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