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"ALL moral standards and values are man-made"

tosca1

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That's what Hard Truth had claimed in another section.

I'm saying, God is the basis for all morals - it's the standard from which moral values are based.


I'd like to try to prove this. So I'd like for you to please answer this.


If I shoot a pedestrian in the face with a shotgun.......is that good or bad?
 

OrphanSlug

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Your question does not speak to the challenge on what is the source of moral values (or morality.)
 

tosca1

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your question does not speak to the challenge on what is the source of moral values (or morality.)
Answer it!

If you're confident in your claim, then I'm throwing the gauntlet right in your face(s). Are you evading the question?
Put your money where your mouth is - unless you're just all big mouth and pure gas!
 

Arcana XV

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That's what Hard Truth had claimed in another section.

I'm saying, God is the basis for all morals - it's the standard from which moral values are based.


I'd like to try to prove this. So I'd like for you to please answer this.


If I shoot a pedestrian in the face with a shotgun.......is that good or bad?
That depends. Were you "standing your ground"?
 

OrphanSlug

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answer it!
Two problems. One, you are in the Philosophy Discussions section and my comment on the question still stands. It has nothing to do with source morality. Two, like all beliefs these things are culturally acquired. This implies that the cultural understanding has nothing to do with truth, therefor any one cultures take on this does not support moral relativism.

In our culture the laws are fairly clear on this, shooting someone in the face with a shotgun is not legal and there is no side implication that it should be considered good. But the question is elementary school thinking on the idea of source morality. It does not have to be exclusively sourced from religion, it does not have to be exclusively sourced from law. However the culture in question will determine how much each are an influence into the standards of morality.
 

Ikari

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That's what Hard Truth had claimed in another section.

I'm saying, God is the basis for all morals - it's the standard from which moral values are based.


I'd like to try to prove this. So I'd like for you to please answer this.


If I shoot a pedestrian in the face with a shotgun.......is that good or bad?
Why did you shoot him in the face?
 

Un biased

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You don't understand the evolutionary importance and role empathy and morals so god did it...... How quaint

The Evolution of Empathy | Greater Good

Morality isn't man made as Humans aren't the only creatures to have a set of morals and empathy . It plays a role as it allows humans as pack animals to live together even in relative peace .Pack animals are more successful in passing down genetics and at getting nutrients from hunting or gathering as well protectioning and rearing the young. As well as detering predators and those who would take the land
 
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tosca1

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Two problems. One, you are in the Philosophy Discussions section and my comment on the question still stands. It has nothing to do with source morality. Two, like all beliefs these things are culturally acquired. This implies that the cultural understanding has nothing to do with truth, therefor any one cultures take on this does not support moral relativism.

In our culture the laws are fairly clear on this, shooting someone in the face with a shotgun is not legal and there is no side implication that it should be considered good. But the question is elementary school thinking on the idea of source morality. It does not have to be exclusively sourced from religion, it does not have to be exclusively sourced from law. However the culture in question will determine how much each are an influence into the standards of morality.

I'm not asking whther it's legal or not. I'm asking if it's good or bad (wrong or right).
 

tosca1

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Two problems. One, you are in the Philosophy Discussions section and my comment on the question still stands. It has nothing to do with source morality. Two, like all beliefs these things are culturally acquired. This implies that the cultural understanding has nothing to do with truth, therefor any one cultures take on this does not support moral relativism.

In our culture the laws are fairly clear on this, shooting someone in the face with a shotgun is not legal and there is no side implication that it should be considered good. But the question is elementary school thinking on the idea of source morality. It does not have to be exclusively sourced from religion, it does not have to be exclusively sourced from law. However the culture in question will determine how much each are an influence into the standards of morality.

I'm not asking whether it's legal or not. I'm asking if it's good or bad (wrong or right).
 

tosca1

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Guys.....why is it so difficult for you to answer a simple question?


If I shoot a pedestrian in the face (not in self-defense), do you think that's good or bad (right or wrong)?
 

soot

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Maybe I didn't like the way he looked at me? Or, the color of his shirt?
So it was a completely arbitrary thing?

He didn't pose a threat to you in any way, hadn't hurt you or anyone you know at some point in the past, wasn't a known terrorist, child molester, or serial rapist, you didn't have to do it in order to "save the lives of six innocent children", or anything else like that.

For no good reason (or at least for no reason that a reasonable man would appreciate as sufficient justification for murder) you just picked someone out of a crowd, walked up, and shot him in the face with a shot gun just cuz?
 

tosca1

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So it was a completely arbitrary thing?

He didn't pose a threat to you in any way, hadn't hurt you or anyone you know at some point in the past, wasn't a known terrorist, child molester, or serial rapist, you didn't have to do it in order to "save the lives of six innocent children", or anything else like that.

For no good reason (or at least for no reason that a reasonable man would appreciate as sufficient justification for murder) you just picked someone out of a crowd, walked up, and shot him in the face with a shot gun just cuz?
Yes.

Anyway, what is "good" reason? That's another question.
 

Ikari

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Maybe I didn't like the way he looked at me? Or, the color of his shirt?
If be posed no threat, if there was no credible reason for defense and this was arbitrary, the of course it's an immoral act. Our society doesn't accept murder as a reasonable course of action for its citizens.
 

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I'm saying, God is the basis for all morals - it's the standard from which moral values are based.


I'd like to try to prove this. So I'd like for you to please answer this.
There is no universal morality so you can not prove it.


If I shoot a pedestrian in the face with a shotgun.......is that good or bad?
In and of itself it is nothing but an action.
For an interpretation of that action you need a framework in which to base your opinion of it.
In our world that framework is man made.
 

tosca1

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Did God tell me to do it?
I'm not talking about God.

I want to know if as according to atheists, morals and values are man-made. So I'm asking this question.
 

OrphanSlug

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I'm not asking whether it's legal or not. I'm asking if it's good or bad (wrong or right).
And you still do not get it. Try this, explain to us how the question is relevant to the point of source morality.
 

tosca1

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In and of itself it is nothing but an action.
For an interpretation of that action you need a framework in which to base your opinion of it.

What's the framework? Where do we find it?
 

tosca1

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And you still do not get it. Try this, explain to us how the question is relevant to the point of source morality.

The title question and the OP explains it simply. You're not getting it, or you refuse to get it.....what more can I say?

Bye-bye Orphan.
 

Excon

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What's the framework? Where do we find it?
I added more to the reply.

To answer your question.
The framework you seek can be your personal opinion, another can be society's general opinion enforced through laws.

But your question shows you are missing the relevant point.
It was just an action and is neither bad nor good.
 

tosca1

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If be posed no threat, if there was no credible reason for defense and this was arbitrary, the of course it's an immoral act. Our society doesn't accept murder as a reasonable course of action for its citizens.
Well, that's not exactly an answer, is it? We're trying to find out if it's true that moral values are man-made!

Okay, explain it then...WHY IS IT "IMMORAL?"
 
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