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All gloom and doom?

Is America really as bad off as some candidates would have us believe?


  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .
****ty candidates who shouldn't get anywhere near the office that they are running for fare a lot better when we're pissed off, divided, and afraid. and that goes for both sides.

True. FDR ran his first campaign on personal amiability and fear of the future on the countries current course, and once elected he gave the "only thing we have to fear, is fear itself" speech at his first inauguration. One thing he and Trump have in common, is that FDR didn't tell anyone what his actual plans were, should he be elected. While he was running for his first term, had he actually told people what radical ideas he had and what he truly planned on doing, he probably wouldn't have been elected. But, once the Depression was in full force a year later in 1933, he was able to do pretty much anything he wanted because of the real fear and anguish the country was feeling. If not for the Supreme Court genuflecting when he threatened to pack the court to get his way, our country would look completely different today - but, that's what fear does, it makes people agree to go along with things that they may otherwise not - including voting for people they know they should never vote for otherwise.
 
So, here's the gist of the poll.....according to Trump's and Bernie's campaigns, and especially in light of the very dreary picture of America the Donald painted yesterday in his acceptance speech, in which he's assured us by the way that he's the only single person in America who can fix this dystopian society in which we are living....one simple question:

overall (socially, educationally, economically, and regarding national security) is America really in as bad of shape as Trumpsters and Bernie Bots would have us believe? Honest answers please.

To some people yes. To others no. To me? I'm actually at the best point I've ever been in my life! And I'm not so sure I'd be able to get that anywhere else in the world.
 
So, here's the gist of the poll.....according to Trump's and Bernie's campaigns, and especially in light of the very dreary picture of America the Donald painted yesterday in his acceptance speech, in which he's assured us by the way that he's the only single person in America who can fix this dystopian society in which we are living....one simple question:

overall (socially, educationally, economically, and regarding national security) is America really in as bad of shape as Trumpsters and Bernie Bots would have us believe? Honest answers please.

Both candidates are/were accurate and as long as the political elites from both Parties have control, there is no prospect for improvement.

However, those two candidates offer widely different solutions. It just so happens that one of them (Sanders) is proposing solutions that will make things worse.


(can you see where I'm going with this?)
 
The Chesapeake Bay will still be there after 6:33 PM on November 8, 2016.

I will still be Striper fishing and crabbing regardless of what knucklehead enters the Oval Office.
 
So, here's the gist of the poll.....according to Trump's and Bernie's campaigns, and especially in light of the very dreary picture of America the Donald painted yesterday in his acceptance speech, in which he's assured us by the way that he's the only single person in America who can fix this dystopian society in which we are living....one simple question:

overall (socially, educationally, economically, and regarding national security) is America really in as bad of shape as Trumpsters and Bernie Bots would have us believe? Honest answers please.
It's very hard to answer this for a homogeneous America, because I believe the answer depends very much on one's socio-economic class.

If you're a professional, working in the professional or managerial ranks in government or a fortune 1000 corp, or own a business in a thriving area, or selling a product to corporations or one of the aforementioned professional groups, you're probably doing pretty damn well!

Your house (being in a nice area) has appreciated in value to around or past the peak that occurred before the recent crash, so you've got some equity built-up and it's a reasonably active market if you need to buy/sell/move.

The markets have been flying, your 401K is reflecting this, interest rates on *everything* are at historic lows, and China & Asia are cranking-out goods at record-low prices compared to the general cost-of-living for you to consume! Education for your kids is still high though, but at a professional's, manager's, or owner's salary you're likely to be able to keep them in the better schools, even if it means hitting-up or borrowing against that 401K that's done 300% tax-free over the last 5 years! ROI on fixed investments (bonds/CDs/etc) is painfully low though and that's irksome, but who needs fixed investments when the market's flying and you're making a killing in it?

Now if you're mid-middle or lower middle-class, working-class, or non-professional, you're probably getting squeezed pretty badly. You're earning moderate wages with little increase, and crappy benefits while working long hours, likely including weekends and holidays. Your kids likely don't quality for financial aid, and you can't afford to pay for them, so hello kids to a lifetime of non-dismissable educational loans. With the heavily increasing rents, if you don't already own a house you're going to struggle to get the downpayment and good credit required to land that first one. That's if you don't have student loans of your own! On the flipside, if you *can* get that mortgage the rates are at historical lows, and you'll probably pay less than your rent, especially considering the mortgage interest and property tax deduction on your 1040.

Now if you're one of the many middle-aged or near-retirement-aged displaced union or manufacturing workers now making not much more than minimum wage in some service occupation, and competing with co-workers unable to speak much English and of a culture you cannot relate to and perhaps even dislike, I have nothing more to comment accept I'm sure we'll see you in November when you cast your vote for The Donald because he understands you.

Finally, if you're of a socio-economic group lower than those described above, well it goes without saying you likely feel the American Dream isn't working any longer, and the prospect of near minimum wage for dreary long hours at multiple jobs with no benefits probably doesn't sound much better than public assistance and/or disability - bolstered with cash on the side if you can find it. And it's better than the kind of hustle that can get you in prison. Maybe. At least assistance gets you medicaid, which is better than the unaffordable or non-functional insurance that the lower-middle class one wrung up can't afford, and therefore often do without.
 
It's very hard to answer this for a homogeneous America, because I believe the answer depends very much on one's socio-economic class.

If you're a professional, working in the professional or managerial ranks in government or a fortune 1000 corp, or own a business in a thriving area, or selling a product to corporations or one of the aforementioned professional groups, you're probably doing pretty damn well!

Your house (being in a nice area) has appreciated in value to around or past the peak that occurred before the recent crash, so you've got some equity built-up and it's a reasonably active market if you need to buy/sell/move.

The markets have been flying, your 401K is reflecting this, interest rates on *everything* are at historic lows, and China & Asia are cranking-out goods at record-low prices compared to the general cost-of-living for you to consume! Education for your kids is still high though, but at a professional's, manager's, or owner's salary you're likely to be able to keep them in the better schools, even if it means hitting-up or borrowing against that 401K that's done 300% tax-free over the last 5 years! ROI on fixed investments (bonds/CDs/etc) is painfully low though and that's irksome, but who needs fixed investments when the market's flying and you're making a killing in it?

Now if you're mid-middle or lower middle-class, working-class, or non-professional, you're probably getting squeezed pretty badly. You're earning moderate wages with little increase, and crappy benefits while working long hours, likely including weekends and holidays. Your kids likely don't quality for financial aid, and you can't afford to pay for them, so hello kids to a lifetime of non-dismissable educational loans. With the heavily increasing rents, if you don't already own a house you're going to struggle to get the downpayment and good credit required to land that first one. That's if you don't have student loans of your own! On the flipside, if you *can* get that mortgage the rates are at historical lows, and you'll probably pay less than your rent, especially considering the mortgage interest and property tax deduction on your 1040.

Now if you're one of the many middle-aged or near-retirement-aged displaced union or manufacturing workers now making not much more than minimum wage in some service occupation, and competing with co-workers unable to speak much English and of a culture you cannot relate to and perhaps even dislike, I have nothing more to comment accept I'm sure we'll see you in November when you cast your vote for The Donald because he understands you.

Finally, if you're of a socio-economic group lower than those described above, well it goes without saying you likely feel the American Dream isn't working any longer, and the prospect of near minimum wage for dreary long hours at multiple jobs with no benefits probably doesn't sound much better than public assistance and/or disability - bolstered with cash on the side if you can find it. And it's better than the kind of hustle that can get you in prison. Maybe. At least assistance gets you medicaid, which is better than the unaffordable or non-functional insurance that the lower-middle class one wrung up can't afford, and therefore often do without.

Well thought out. Thank you for your honest and detailed response. I do agree, that it is quite often a matter of perspective.
 
Incoming politicians want to raise the level of fear and position themselves as the only salvation. Outgoing politicians want to crow about how good everything is, thanks to them. That, to me, pretty well describes Trump and Obama. Both are narcissistic liars. The U.S. isn't as bad off as Trump describes and after almost eight years of a president who hates America it's certainly not as good as Obama wants to claim.
 
So 2/3'rds of those that answered this poll believe things are better then the candidates say?

Okaaaay.

No wonder America is so screwed up. You people are like those that were partying just after the Titanic hit the iceberg...utterly clueless as to the potential nightmare that awaits most of them.

America and the West/Japan are economic messes. The fact that all these powerful economies require massive government/central bank stimulus/deficits PLUS near-zero record low interest rates for year after year just to keep their heads above the water while the middle classes shrink and the number of poor grow should be screaming to people that something is VERY wrong. Of course, the rich are loving it because all this stimulus benefits them WAY more then anyone else.

But, the masses are not called the 'ignorant masses' for nothing. They believe whatever the government/major media tells them.

Well, I am planning for the future while you people rearrange the Titanic deck chairs as she slowly sinks.

Clinton is clueless what is going on - or just doesn't care because she is part of that rich elite that is making out like gangbusters since the Great Recession. Trump sort of gets it...but his solutions (start trade wars and basically close America for business with the world) would be disastrous (see Smoot-Hawley). Gary Johnson pretty much gets it...but he has almost no chance of winning.

I realize most of you have little/no idea what I am talking about or have heads so filled with Krugmanite nonsense or are just Obamabots that all of this is going right over your heads. But maybe a couple will start to think a little about the real situation.

And, of course, there is always being able to say 'I told you so' in a few years/decade.
 
So 2/3'rds of those that answered this poll believe things are better then the candidates say?

Okaaaay.

No wonder America is so screwed up. You people are like those that were partying just after the Titanic hit the iceberg...utterly clueless as to the potential nightmare that awaits most of them.

America and the West/Japan are economic messes. The fact that all these powerful economies require massive government/central bank stimulus/deficits PLUS near-zero record low interest rates for year after year just to keep their heads above the water while the middle classes shrink and the number of poor grow should be screaming to people that something is VERY wrong. Of course, the rich are loving it because all this stimulus benefits them WAY more then anyone else.

But, the masses are not called the 'ignorant masses' for nothing. They believe whatever the government/major media tells them.

Well, I am planning for the future while you people rearrange the Titanic deck chairs as she slowly sinks.

Clinton is clueless what is going on - or just doesn't care because she is part of that rich elite that is making out like gangbusters since the Great Recession. Trump sort of gets it...but his solutions (start trade wars and basically close America for business with the world) would be disastrous (see Smoot-Hawley). Gary Johnson pretty much gets it...but he has almost no chance of winning.

I realize most of you have little/no idea what I am talking about or have heads so filled with Krugmanite nonsense or are just Obamabots that all of this is going right over your heads. But maybe a couple will start to think a little about the real situation.

And, of course, there is always being able to say 'I told you so' in a few years/decade.

Yes, I understand. Our Capitalistic System is like one big game of monopoly where the annoying kid just can't accept winning and doles out extra loans just to keep the game going a little longer.

But life is great. America is great. The world is great. The standard of living is higher and our best days are ahead of us.
On a more direct note, most of Trumps statistics were severely cherry picked. Crime is down overall and being a cop is still statistically safer than being a taxi-driver or construction laborer.
More people are killed in the world each year by falling coconuts than Americans killed by terrorists.
I am happier and wealthier than ever before. I am just not seeing the gloom.

Sure we have problems and debt. Most of which would be solved if we voted out the Republicans and some of the "far" left idiots.
One thing for sure is that I don't care what your ideology is... The middle class is never going to pay this debt. That will only happen once the rich are taxed.
 
If the USA is as bad as people like Trump try to paint it why are so many people on this planet so eager to move to the USA?

Think about that a little bit.

The hate and fear which has attracted some voters to support Trump has ignited others to vote against him.

He will get his butt handed to him in November.

Wait and see.
 
If the USA is as bad as people like Trump try to paint it why are so many people on this planet so eager to move to the USA?

Think about that a little bit.

The hate and fear which has attracted some voters to support Trump has ignited others to vote against him.

Agreed, both candidates the elites have shoved down our throats are despicable pieces of human trash for utilizing such ugly scheming and tactics to curry favor/votes.
 
Agreed, both candidates the elites have shoved down our throats are despicable pieces of human trash for utilizing such ugly scheming and tactics to curry favor/votes.

Really the elites? I had the impression that it was the general voter that gave those two and BS their votes. That was not the elite. It was the woman in the street.
 
So, here's the gist of the poll.....according to Trump's and Bernie's campaigns, and especially in light of the very dreary picture of America the Donald painted yesterday in his acceptance speech, in which he's assured us by the way that he's the only single person in America who can fix this dystopian society in which we are living....one simple question:

overall (socially, educationally, economically, and regarding national security) is America really in as bad of shape as Trumpsters and Bernie Bots would have us believe? Honest answers please.

The US is in pretty good shape. Its population is better off than any population of a similarly large, diverse and complex society. But we do seem challenged by some urgent global and domestic problems each one of which could crash us, if we don't rise to them and win.
 
America is in many ways unhappy with itself and the pop-culture it has become.

More than two thirds (69 percent) believe that American values have declined, and they point to political corruption, increased materialism, declining family values, and a celebrity-obsessed culture as the culprits

However, the most important challenge that we face as a nation stems from the crisis of our capitalist values. Most Americans believe that obsession with money and material things, the influence of money in politics, and political corruption are weakening national values. More than two-thirds of Americans think the U.S. economy is on the wrong track - a consistent opinion that has held across the last three years -- and 52 percent believe that the economy and jobs are the single most important issues facing the country. When compared with the next most important issues, deficit and government spending and healthcare -- both at just 6 percent -- the poll provides a clear picture of what the defining element of the 2012 election campaign will be.

The crisis of confidence in the American financial and economic system is also reflected in our politics. Seven in 10 Americans believe that elected officials reflect mainly the values of the wealthy, not the values of middle- and working- class Americans, a finding that is consistent across all age groups. Regardless of party and affiliation Americans are united in their belief that money and lobbyists have too much influence in politics. Seventy-four percent of Americans, including 73 percent of Democrats and 78 percent of Republicans, agree with this statement.

Americans Are Losing Confidence in the Nation but Still Believe in Themselves - The Atlantic

DATE: JUNE 2012

Maybe Trump was the only one to read it. Things have only gotten worse.
 
Really the elites? I had the impression that it was the general voter that gave those two and BS their votes. That was not the elite. It was the woman in the street.

You might be right about Trump but with the DNC it is painfully obvious from the Leaks.
 
2015

Only 19 percent of Americans — about 1 in 5 — say they trust the government "always or most of the time," according to a study released by the Pew Research Center on Monday. Yet clear majorities also favor the government taking "a major role" in fighting terrorism, responding to natural disasters, keeping food and drugs safe, protecting the environment, strengthening the economy and improving education.

Despite this desire for government services, Americans are clearly dissatisfied with the level of service they feel they receive. Three out of four, 74 percent, say public officials put their own interests ahead of the nation's. And a majority, 55 percent, say ordinary Americans would "do a better job of solving problems" than the people whose job it is to do so.
Poll: 1 In 5 Americans Trusts The Government : NPR

Although the Pew study was focused on the federal government, it also found a majority, 56 percent, saying that large corporations have a negative impact on the country. A similar majority said the entertainment industry has a negative impact, and almost two-thirds, 65 percent, said the same thing about the national news media.

Let's not pretend that Trump is saying anything unusual MKay?

Just because the elite for years have not been wanting to hear it does not mean that we did not know what was in peoples brains.
 
You might be right about Trump but with the DNC it is painfully obvious from the Leaks.

The voters gave Clinton their votes. And BS was even worse in this respect. He was the populist pendent to Trump. The population is in a very dangerous mode and it is not the elite that is doing it, though, it is their previous behavior that has riled the voters to this point.
 
A financier I know who grew up under the WASP standard not long ago told me that he thought that the subprime real estate collapse and the continuing hedge-fund scandals have been brought on directly by men and women who are little more than "greedy pigs" (his words) without a shred of character or concern for their clients or country. Naturally, he added, they all have master's degrees from the putatively best business schools in the nation.

Thus far in their history, meritocrats, those earnest good students, appear to be about little more than getting on, getting ahead and (above all) getting their own. The WASP leadership, for all that may be said in criticism of it, was better than that.

The WASPs' day is done. Such leadership as it provided isn't likely to be revived. Recalling it at its best is a reminder that the meritocracy that has followed it marks something less than clear progress. Rather the reverse.
The Late, Great American WASP - WSJ

Do the ELITE fancy that we the people are too dumb to see what is going on?
 
The U.S. war in Iraq has cost $1.7 trillion with an additional $490 billion in benefits owed to war veterans, expenses that could grow to more than $6 trillion over the next four decades counting interest, a study released on Thursday said.
Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study | Reuters

What did this buy?

How were we sold this?

Who amongst the elite told the truth?
 
High-speed rail has different definitions in different countries. According to the International
Union of Railways, the European Union defines high-speed rail as lines specially built for speeds
greater than or equal to 250 km/h/155 mph, or lines that are specially upgraded with speeds greater
than 200 km/h or 124 mph.1 The U.S. defines high-speed differently. Emerging rail has speeds of
90 to 110 mph; Regional rail has speeds of 110 to 150 mph; and Express rail has speeds of at least
150 mph.2
http://reason.org/files/high_speed_rail_lessons.pdf

Number of miles of US rail where trains run at 150mph: 28
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/24/u...avior-bedevils-amtrak-at-every-turn.html?_r=0

In just under a decade, China has laid nearly 12,000 miles of high-speed rail lines and plans to add another 6,400 miles over the next five years.
Just Say No to High-Speed Rail - Bloomberg View
 
Stopped reading right there. The Leaks proved that Wasserman/DC tipped the scales in favor

In which way? The amount of available information is staggering in English. The voters had access to anything required to judge the woman's probable character and voted for her in spite of it. Sure, the elite might be made up of swindlers and charlatans and generally horrible crooks, but they would even then not be an excuse for the popular vote. Each voter is responsible for her own vote.
 
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