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Where did anyone bring up rape?
I imagine anyone with acceptable hygiene would need to shower after practice and the game. Not to mention, it's not like modesty is practiced in a locker room
It's been happening in NFL locker rooms for years already. The only difference is the others weren't "out." When I had a gym membership I showered after my workout, and I would be surprised if NOBODY in that locker room was gay. Actually, I'm pretty sure that I saw Esera Tuaolo in there a few times. He was gay, and he used to play in the NFL.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ays-he-gay-post1062912227.html#post1062912227
and if men were unknowingly sneaking into the women's locker room no one would care. But clearly social norms dictates that we be segregated due to concerns about attraction and arousal. And your argument in no way addresses this.
Based on the way I've heard ex-playesr talk about locker rooms, and based on the fact that younger people are continually becoming more accepting of homosexuality around them, I'd be SHOCKED if a majority of players actually would prefer "have them in our locker room" if given the option of "all one locker room or seperate locker rooms".
As can be seen by Sam's current teammates, and by comments from NFL players on the team with gay men in the past, they are "one of us". They are a part of that team. And the locker room is a "sacred" area of many pro athletes, one where the team is free to be themselves and bond beyond the scrutiny of the media and public. I imagine most would be far more bothered by having a teammate segregated away from the team then they are that he may see their junk and get aroused.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ays-he-gay-post1062912227.html#post1062912227
and if men were unknowingly sneaking into the women's locker room no one would care. But clearly social norms dictates that we be segregated due to concerns about attraction and arousal. And your argument in no way addresses this.
Gay men are not women.
But the point people keep bringing up is that co-ed locker rooms would be completely unacceptable to current social norms and that there is a double standard here. Yes, it's indeed a rather pointless and trite concern, but that double standard doesn't simply go away due to acknowledging that homosexuals were likely there prior to coming out or that players are comfortable with this.
The post I was addressing wondered if women would mind this guy showering with them. I can't imagine that there are that many women showering after NFL games, so that's not really an issue is it?
Social norms haven't dictated that there be separate "gay" locker rooms in the past. Why does that change now?
Sure it did. We've all showered with gay men whether we knew it or not, and I can't say I've seen an erection in the locker room. Social norms or not, it's already happened, and it's not been an issue.
you keep ignoring my argument. We can't really discuss a topic if you raise a point, I reply to it, and you reaction is to simply repeat yourself
Yes, you reply to it by repeating your script about "social norms." It's never been an issue before, and you can't tell us why it's different now.
Did Sam shower after games in college? Did he do so with his teammates? Did they know he was gay? We know the answer to the last one is yes, and we presume that most likely the other two are also. I doubt it's likely to be any different in the NFL.
What else is there to worry about?
no ****, but the point is that the segregation is based on sexual attraction. With homosexuals, such sexual attraction would be analogous to emn and women ...
It should have never been an issue in the first place. There should not be a barrier.
Have you ever been in a unisex shower room? There isn't much rape going on
It's the byproducts of that attraction that are the concern. I'm sorry if it is unsettling to you that gay men can control their attractions better than straight men.
you making an empty and baseless assertion isn't raising a fact.
How do they deal with sexual harrasment and attraction now? We seperate mens and womens bathrooms because of the possibility of attraction and harrasment, and privacy. Will gay players need seperate facilities (even from each other) because of the possibility of harrasment?
You think they don't have gay players in the NFL?
How many men have been raped in NFL locker rooms?
Zero, that's a fact.
Not openly
But are they playing football?
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