Alexander Hamilton predicted Donald Trump

[jnug]

Let me know when elections are suspended, the MSM is no longer dispensing its bile and the military is policing the land. THEN, you will have tyranny. Until then, this is but the whiny ramblings of political opponents. What's really amusing is that the far left is actually all for tyranny as long as they are the ones imposing it.

So you appear to be suggesting we should wait for actual tyranny to be thrust upon us in full flower as opposed to dispensing with it before we actually have it. Ah-huh.....

You keep that thought though. Trump and his Trumpets are losing this battle. Donald only knows one way to play....draw to an inside straight every time. Eventually you get clobbered doing that. Why do you think Donald actually LOST MONEY on a Casino!

 

[veritas1]

I can point to God only knows how many Trumpet posts in this very forum that are clear indications of a complete lack of understanding for and respect for the government that we have or even for the country that we have while espousing the values a government that could only exist with a King Donald. My God some of them have been posted this very day and I am sure you have read them.

The only complete lack of understanding of our system seems to be coming from your heroine Ocasio-Cortez. She sounds like a misinformed 8th grader.

 

[Keridan]

I will give you that. But in reality a good many of them want the government that Donald wants, one that mirrors his company.

Donald does not want a pyramid shaped organizational chart whether in business or government. He wants a totem pole built on loyalty to him, narrow all the way to the top with only one guy running everything. In this case wrap the totem pole in a silo with no doors and no windows and you have Donald's perfect business or political world.

The country as a whole does arc toward justice slowly and in fits and starts but toward justice. It always did, another small item a good many from the Right simply ignore or consider irrelevant to their intentions. The country was intended to arc toward justice and give voice to that aspiration through its founding documents. So whatever the number is now that outright support, fully intend and hope for a King Donald vs those that foolishly giggle and are amused at the Donald and his notions of "government" I would agree that the number that would actually support it would fall out of his ranks.

Lets face it, some number are already falling out of his ranks. He suffered a 24% swing away from him in Independent voters in the Mid-terms. That is not a sustainable number for Trump even in a run at a second term, never mind a run at Royalty.

All BS aside, I think if the left stopped bothering to attack him at every turn, his true colors would show more vibrantly. I think they actually solidify his base and hurt themselves.

I don't disagree with your assessment. And everything is also just too polarized. His followers tend to be the more hardcore ones.

Luckily, the majority by far either support limited government or at least hate him. He will never get his crown. Personally, I'd actually support him if he just found his grown up pants and stopped acting like everything he attacks.

 

[jnug]

The only complete lack of understanding of our system seems to be coming from your heroine Ocasio-Cortez. She sounds like a misinformed 8th grader.

Nice dodge but irrelevant. I don't live in her district.

 

[veritas1]

So you appear to be suggesting we should wait for actual tyranny to be thrust upon us in full flower as opposed to dispensing with it before we actually have it. Ah-huh.....

You keep that thought though. Trump and his Trumpets are losing this battle. Donald only knows one way to play....draw to an inside straight every time. Eventually you get clobbered doing that. Why do you think Donald actually LOST MONEY on a Casino!

Naturally, you can point to nothing that even remotely resembles the beginnings or birth pangs of what you claim is happening. Not a thing.

 

[veritas1]

Nice dodge but irrelevant. I don't live in her district.

No, she represents your side and its ideas and she's a fool, whether you live in her district or not.

 

[jnug]

All BS aside, I think if the left stopped bothering to attack him at every turn, his true colors would show more vibrantly. I think they actually solidify his base and hurt themselves.

I don't disagree with your assessment. And everything is also just too polarized. His followers tend to be the more hardcore ones.

Luckily, the majority by far either support limited government or at least hate him. He will never get his crown. Personally, I'd actually support him if he just found his grown up pants and stopped acting like everything he attacks.

Never going to happen. Donald only knows one way as any tri-stater having watched him "operate" for decades will tell you. He simply can't help himself. For example, you would have thought he would have looked at the shellacking he should took and backed off even a little bit. But NOOOOOOO.....not Donald. He threw his rattles and his teething rings around his playpen for a few days, probably spoiled a few more diapers than usual and just went right back at it.

 

[Keridan]

The only complete lack of understanding of our system seems to be coming from your heroine Ocasio-Cortez. She sounds like a misinformed 8th grader.

I looked all through the thread. I don't see drooling over Ocasio-Cortez. She may be dumb and all, but the attempts to make her a heroine of the left all seems to be coming from the right. Seems like a straw-man set up to me.

 

[jnug]

No, she represents your side and its ideas and she's a fool, whether you live in her district or not.

I frankly don't know what "side" she represents at this point and neither do you. A member of Congress exposes him or herself through their voting record. Does she have a voting record yet?

 

[JackA]

The ninth court is often out of sync with the majority of the American people and even more often out of sync with God.

How nice to be a spokesman for God.

 

[jnug]

Naturally, you can point to nothing that even remotely resembles the beginnings or birth pangs of what you claim is happening. Not a thing.

Probably nothing that you would recognize as you have had ample time to recognize the Donald for what he is and simply don't or won't. There have certainly been numerous threads and posts that point to Trump's abuses of Power and his totem pole organization based on loyalty. If you have rejected all of it to this point I don't fancy myself able to turn whatever tide is tumbling around between your ears. It would be a waste of my time.

 

[veritas1]

I frankly don't know what "side" she represents at this point and neither do you. A member of Congress exposes him or herself through their voting record. Does she have a voting record yet?

She exposed herself during her campaign and subsequently. There is no question that she harbors a lot of quacky socialist ideas. Mix those in with a gaping lack of knowledge and there you have it.

 

[Keridan]

Never going to happen. Donald only knows one way as any tri-stater having watched him "operate" for decades will tell you. He simply can't help himself. For example, you would have thought he would have looked at the shellacking he should took and backed off even a little bit. But NOOOOOOO.....not Donald. He threw his rattles and his teething rings around his playpen for a few days, probably spoiled a few more diapers than usual and just went right back at it.

This is my catch here. Everyone is super-polarized. Even you, who has been showing an interest in honest debate.

He did get hit in the midterms. It didn't help. But it was hardly a true beat-down. I see a lot of indicators that he is strongly disliked, but Obama (the polar opposite of Trump) actually took a harder hit. With the exception of Bush following 9/11, every new party president has been hit at least as hard or more.

Taking it to the point of comparing him to a toddler in his playpen is exactly what I meant about his opponents pushing too hard. His supporters get numb to the many true criticisms. He gives plenty of clear and present examples of his deviations from realistic government and ability to manage such an important office. Let his clear failings show through on their own.

Let's just pray that primaries or democrats give him an opponent the people can accept next time around. I have lost all faith in our electoral system, but I have a vague hope of reality setting in.

 

[veritas1]

Probably nothing that you would recognize as you have had ample time to recognize the Donald for what he is and simply don't or won't. There have certainly been numerous threads and posts that point to Trump's abuses of Power and his totem pole organization based on loyalty. If you have rejected all of it to this point I don't fancy myself able to turn whatever tide is tumbling around between your ears. It would be a waste of my time.

You don't think Obama demanded loyalty or that every POTUS hasn't done the same? Where have you been? What "abuses of power" are you referring to specifically? The travel ban? That was upheld by the court and is a prerogative of the POTUS per the Constitution. Firing Comey? Again, perfectly Constitutional and was also recommended by Rosenstein. Sending troops to the border? Again, a Federal responsibility per the Constitution. What the left calls abuses of power are simply policy actions they disagree with. If they bothered to read the Constitution, they wouldn't make such mistakes.

 

[JackA]

You don't think Obama demanded loyalty or that every POTUS hasn't done the same? Where have you been? What "abuses of power" are you referring to specifically? The travel ban? That was upheld by the court and is a prerogative of the POTUS per the Constitution. Firing Comey? Again, perfectly Constitutional and was also recommended by Rosenstein. Sending troops to the border? Again, a Federal responsibility per the Constitution. What the left calls abuses of power are simply policy actions they disagree with. If they bothered to read the Constitution, they wouldn't make such mistakes.

Trump is the embodiment of misuse of power. He governs by division, bellows and tweets falsehoods, appoints cronies and perceived loyalists independent of qualifications, antagonizes allies, bends to adversaries, lines his pockets, bedevils language. I bet there’s more, but that will do.

 

[TheParser]

Lincoln ignored habeas corpus at the start9 of the Civil War. What else?

1. I understand that he closed down some newspapers during the war. (He even exiled one journalist to Canada.)

2. I understand that some scholars feel that he did not have the Constitutional authority to coerce the Southern states to stay in the Union.


Best wishes

 

[veritas1]

Trump is the embodiment of misuse of power. He governs by division, bellows and tweets falsehoods, appoints cronies and perceived loyalists independent of qualifications, antagonizes allies, bends to adversaries, lines his pockets, bedevils language. I bet there’s more, but that will do.

We get it. You don't like Trump. However, I'm still waiting for one abuse of power. You know, like ordering surveillance on a reporter and gathering up records on him and his family like Obama did to James Rosen. Or like using the IRS as a tool against political opponents. Or having the NSA make bulk seizures of phone records. Or unmasking people in classified intelligence documents at the 11th hour as a political ploy. Trump has miles to go to equal Obama.

 

[veritas1]

1. I understand that he closed down some newspapers during the war. (He even exiled one journalist to Canada.)

2. I understand that some scholars feel that he did not have the Constitutional authority to coerce the Southern states to stay in the Union.


Best wishes

He threw the entire legislature of the state of Maryland into jail to prevent them from voting for secession. 100% unconstitutional and a gross abuse of power.

 

[jnug]

You don't think Obama demanded loyalty or that every POTUS hasn't done the same? Where have you been? What "abuses of power" are you referring to specifically? The travel ban? That was upheld by the court and is a prerogative of the POTUS per the Constitution. Firing Comey? Again, perfectly Constitutional and was also recommended by Rosenstein. Sending troops to the border? Again, a Federal responsibility per the Constitution. What the left calls abuses of power are simply policy actions they disagree with. If they bothered to read the Constitution, they wouldn't make such mistakes.

Trump uses or I should say abuses his Presidency in order to enhance and grow his personal wealth. You want to call that "simply policy actions" be my guest. He just hung a for sale cheap sign out on his Presidency with his MBS and Saudi nonsense. We no longer even have a state to state relationship with Saudi. We have a person to person wealth enhancement relationship between MBS, Donald and his crooked son-in-law Kushner.

Trump's "statement" regarding the entire MBS and Saudi relationship as a consequence of the Khashoggi murder would have been hysterical were it not so sad. The saddest part was Trump trying to hide behind an America first rational which was actually just too absurd. The was not a single word of truth in the entire statement, not about Saudi intentions in Yemen, not about Saudi intended humanitarian efforts, not about the scope and scale of the arms deal with Saudi. It was all self-serving nonsense. Worse it included a bold face lie, bit of propaganda about Khahsoggi that came direct from MBS's regime. It gets pretty bad when the President of the United States is repeating utter lies from the Crown Prince of Saudi. That was nauseating. Since when does US Middle East policy run through Riyadh? Since when is the US suddenly the supplicant and Saudi the client in that relationship? Since Donald, thats when because it suits his and crooked Kushner's personal wealth ambitions. Has nothing to do with what is in the best interests of the USA.

Donald has installed a massively corrupt cabinet to suit his purposes. Zenke will likely be the next to go over corruption charges. Then there are Donald's direct emoluments infringements, likely to get much more of a review than Ivanka's email stuff will get. Donald is probably hoping the Dems waste a bunch of time on Ivanka's email nonsense which by rights should fall to about #1001 on a list of 1000 abuses of power and corruption Oversight investigations.

As for firing Comey, Trump simply screwed himself because he couldn't keep his own big mouth shut. it was not the firing which he was within his rights to do. It was Trump's utter lack of understanding for having to provide a rational for the firing....STUPID Donald STUPID. As for the Rosenstein letter, Trump asked for the letter and Rosenstein complied, not recognizing how the unscrupulous Donald would use the letter.

As for Obama and loyalty, any President wants loyal assistants around him. Trump insists on supplicants and has over time actually removed what few actual just loyal assistants he has had and installed supplicants in their place.

 

[jnug]

This is my catch here. Everyone is super-polarized. Even you, who has been showing an interest in honest debate.

He did get hit in the midterms. It didn't help. But it was hardly a true beat-down. I see a lot of indicators that he is strongly disliked, but Obama (the polar opposite of Trump) actually took a harder hit. With the exception of Bush following 9/11, every new party president has been hit at least as hard or more.

Taking it to the point of comparing him to a toddler in his playpen is exactly what I meant about his opponents pushing too hard. His supporters get numb to the many true criticisms. He gives plenty of clear and present examples of his deviations from realistic government and ability to manage such an important office. Let his clear failings show through on their own.

Let's just pray that primaries or democrats give him an opponent the people can accept next time around. I have lost all faith in our electoral system, but I have a vague hope of reality setting in.

39 seats in the House and an 8.7 million vote margin across the country in House elections is a pretty serious shellacking, especially when you consider how much gerrymandering the GOP has done since 2010. That does represent a brilliant strategy for what in the main has been a minority party since the 1960's. The Dems only won 49 seats in the mid-term directly following Nixon's resignation in a non-gerrymandered election. This was their biggest vote total margin since the Nixon resignation mid-terms. Anytime you can use Watergate as a comparison, Republicans get nervous and rightfully so.

Actually I would love to agree with you on the topic of "can't we all get along" but we can't with Donald there. Donald's MO for decades in business was to start a dog pile on the carpeting between contractors working on his projects and pick at the flesh of the bloodied carcasses as they laid prone on the floor. How much does that look like what he has done in office as regards the Congress and even some members of his own party? By the way what is Donald's party. There is no Republican Party. There is only this shell of the Republican Party. It no longer espouses any principles any ideals any anything. It is simply a tool of Donald at this point. The last remnants got tossed out in the mid-terms. Heck if it were not for Senators having 6 year terms there would likely be none left in the of them in the Senate.

The only way out will be for the new House controlled by Dems to produce legislation that speaks to the majority of the American people, not this absurd minority that tries to convince itself that it is the majority and punch Donald in the mouth every day. What legislation gets passed will not be much. But the Dem controlled House must pass out Legislation that speaks to the needs of the actual majority of the Electorate and force the Senate and Trump to deal with it. Then there is Oversight.

By the way, in a last gasp of GOP trumpian House supplication, House Judiciary is trying to subpoena Comey and Lynch to testify about YOU GUESSED IT....Hillary. What a comedy routine.

 

[JackA]

He threw the entire legislature of the state of Maryland into jail to prevent them from voting for secession. 100% unconstitutional and a gross abuse of power.

A proper use of power, to curtail an act of treason. Wasn’t the entire legislature, by the way.

 

[veritas1]

Trump uses or I should say abuses his Presidency in order to enhance and grow his personal wealth. You want to call that "simply policy actions" be my guest. He just hung a for sale cheap sign out on his Presidency with his MBS and Saudi nonsense. We no longer even have a state to state relationship with Saudi. We have a person to person wealth enhancement relationship between MBS, Donald and his crooked son-in-law Kushner.

Trump's "statement" regarding the entire MBS and Saudi relationship as a consequence of the Khashoggi murder would have been hysterical were it not so sad. The saddest part was Trump trying to hide behind an America first rational which was actually just too absurd. The was not a single word of truth in the entire statement, not about Saudi intentions in Yemen, not about Saudi intended humanitarian efforts, not about the scope and scale of the arms deal with Saudi. It was all self-serving nonsense. Worse it included a bold face lie, bit of propaganda about Khahsoggi that came direct from MBS's regime. It gets pretty bad when the President of the United States is repeating utter lies from the Crown Prince of Saudi. That was nauseating. Since when does US Middle East policy run through Riyadh? Since when is the US suddenly the supplicant and Saudi the client in that relationship? Since Donald, thats when because it suits his and crooked Kushner's personal wealth ambitions. Has nothing to do with what is in the best interests of the USA.

Donald has installed a massively corrupt cabinet to suit his purposes. Zenke will likely be the next to go over corruption charges. Then there are Donald's direct emoluments infringements, likely to get much more of a review than Ivanka's email stuff will get. Donald is probably hoping the Dems waste a bunch of time on Ivanka's email nonsense which by rights should fall to about #1001 on a list of 1000 abuses of power and corruption Oversight investigations.

As for firing Comey, Trump simply screwed himself because he couldn't keep his own big mouth shut. it was not the firing which he was within his rights to do. It was Trump's utter lack of understanding for having to provide a rational for the firing....STUPID Donald STUPID. As for the Rosenstein letter, Trump asked for the letter and Rosenstein complied, not recognizing how the unscrupulous Donald would use the letter.

As for Obama and loyalty, any President wants loyal assistants around him. Trump insists on supplicants and has over time actually removed what few actual just loyal assistants he has had and installed supplicants in their place.

You continue to make claims with zero evidence. When you have a shred of evidence that Trump has lined his pockets, feel free to present it. As for Comey, Trump need provide no rationale. He is within his rights to fire Comey for any reason or no reason. I also find it amusing that you would suggest that Rosenstein would write the letter if he didn't believe the sentiments in it or wouldn't suspect that Trump would use it as a pretext to fire Comey. You must have a very low estimation of Rosenstein's honesty and/or intelligence.

As for Saudi Arabia, we can argue over whether Trump has taken the right tack in regard to the Khashoggi killing. What this points out in the larger picture, is that we are going to pursue policy favorable to our own interests without regard to the niceties we previously based our, mostly failed, policies upon. IOW, we are going to stop trying to spread our ideas of democracy and fair play to countries uninterested in or incapable of embracing them. This is about putting the screws to Iran and keeping them contained in the ME, which Trump has decided is more important than holding the Saudis' feet to the fire over Khashoggi. That is why the arms deal is going to stay as it was.

 

[JackA]

1. I understand that he closed down some newspapers during the war. (He even exiled one journalist to Canada.)

2. I understand that some scholars feel that he did not have the Constitutional authority to coerce the Southern states to stay in the Union.


Best wishes

Newspapers were shutdown but I’m not aware of Lincoln ordering it. Anyway, what a government does during civil war is a poor place to look for comparisons.

 

[veritas1]

A proper use of power, to curtail an act of treason. Wasn’t the entire legislature, by the way.

It's unconstitutional by any measure. Ironically, they voted against secession in April but had many of their members arrested in September, 1861 anyway on mere fears that they might change what had been an overwhelming vote earlier. Habeas corpus was also arbitrarily suspended. Baltimore and much of the state was under virtual martial law prior to these actions, yet, despite the rumblings of some secessionists, no overt move toward secession had ever occurred to warrant such heavy handed tactics.

 

[jnug]

You continue to make claims with zero evidence. When you have a shred of evidence that Trump has lined his pockets, feel free to present it. As for Comey, Trump need provide no rationale. He is within his rights to fire Comey for any reason or no reason. I also find it amusing that you would suggest that Rosenstein would write the letter if he didn't believe the sentiments in it or wouldn't suspect that Trump would use it as a pretext to fire Comey. You must have a very low estimation of Rosenstein's honesty and/or intelligence.

As for Saudi Arabia, we can argue over whether Trump has taken the right tack in regard to the Khashoggi killing. What this points out in the larger picture, is that we are going to pursue policy favorable to our own interests without regard to the niceties we previously based our, mostly failed, policies upon. IOW, we are going to stop trying to spread our ideas of democracy and fair play to countries uninterested in or incapable of embracing them. This is about putting the screws to Iran and keeping them contained in the ME, which Trump has decided is more important than holding the Saudis' feet to the fire over Khashoggi. That is why the arms deal is going to stay as it was.

Oh stop...Donald cares about Donald. He does not care a rats behind about Iran or Saudi or anything else. Frankly I think he will not run in 2020 because he does not care about you either. If he had it to do over again he might have thought better about bouncing out of the JCPOA and then initiating toothless sanctions. Bouncing out of the JCPOA only helps him with some voters if he does in fact run again in 2020.

By Donald's own admission, the Saudi's are worth millions of $$ to him personally and they bailed Kushner out of his $600M Manhattan white elephant among other things.

All the House will really have to do from January on is provide the evidence for what Donald has himself admitted to. As many have stated, most of this stuff has been hiding in plain sight. The only pieces of the puzzle that are not in plain sight is the link in the Russia investigation between Roger Stone and Assange. Everything else has not hit the fan because fo the failure of the GOP sycophant controlled Congress and Senate would not perform any Oversight at all. That ends at least in the House in January.

As for the Comey firing. The result there is simply a consequence of Donald's massive ignorance and unscrupulousness. He did not have to say a darned thing about the Comey firing but just could not keep his mouth shut. As for Rosenstein, he is a Republican and I find it entirely reasonable that he would try to support the President early in his term of Presidency as opposed to denying his request out of hand.