Alberta vs. Quebec and Equalization

[Carjosse]

When someone asserts that their fellow citizens are undertaxed, they are off in the weeds. Have you ever considered that Quebeckers are overtaxed instead?

Maybe, that is what Quebec's new government was elected on but Alberta's a problem is that it collects far lower average taxes than other provinces, it is the only province without a provincial sales tax for example. The problem has been that Alberta used to rely on oil revenues when times were good but instead of investing in economic diversification they spent it on everything else but now that oil revenues took a hit with the massive drop in oil prices they still have to spend but they cannot rely on oil revenues anymore, they need more reliable revenue generation, ie taxes.

They have to still build roads, schools, healthcare facilities, etc. all without the oil revenues they had in the past.

 

[Buzz62]

Before more pipelines we need more refinery capacity. Piping dilbit to refineries in the States which pay Canadian domestic prices and then sell the refined product on the world market makes as much sense as selling raw logs to be milled in Japan and China.
And we need a pipeline straight up the MacKenzie valley to the Arctic Ocean at Tuktoyaktuk. The ice-free season is getting longer all the time and can be extended more with icebreakers and from Tuk ships can go east to Europe or west to Asia.

So we agree then...good.

 

[Buzz62]

First time I ever heard the term, 'Have-not province' it was a reference to Alberta and equalization payments. Then the huge oil boom happened and when Trudeau said that Canadians in the Maritimes shouldn't have to pay world prices for Canadian oil, that Canada needed a 'National Energy Policy', and the response from Alberta was, "Let them freeze in the dark!" Now Albertans complain about the price at the pumps and the bad effect the world market is having on Alberta's economy.

No I think they're complaining that a bunch of tree-huggers have halted pipeline construction.

 

[Grand Mal]

No I think they're complaining that a bunch of tree-huggers have halted pipeline construction.

No they haven't. A court has halted pipeline construction. And speaking as a life-long liberal the federal government had no business buying that pipeline. That's something an NDP government would do.

 

[Buzz62]

It is almost as if you should have invested in economic activities that do not rely on natural resources. Alberta oil is expensive, in a world with low oil prices it is being edged out by much cheaper alternatives from everywhere, reliance on oil especially high-cost oil was never a good decision.

I invested in property...and it worked out swimmingly...thank you very much.
But you have half a point about timing and oil prices.

 

[Buzz62]

No they haven't. A court has halted pipeline construction. And speaking as a life-long liberal the federal government had no business buying that pipeline. That's something an NDP government would do.

And why did this court halt the pipeline???

 

[Conaeolos]

So the recent tensions between Alberta and Quebec, due to policy differences and equalization payments though I think it is more the Prairies vs the Rest of Canada (RoC). I found this article from the Globe and Mail which explains that equalization is still not unfair even if Alberta's economy is suffering and has ballooning deficits.

Basically the article points out that if Alberta taxed at the average national rate, it would bring in the most money of the provinces which is why they still have to pay the equalization while Quebec is one of the lowest. The problem is Alberta does not tax at the national average rate, which is also the major contributing issue behind its deficits.

Not to mention that it is not the RoC's fault that Alberta chose to put all of its economic eggs into the oil basket and oil failed. I don't see why Canada should bail Alberta out for problems it inflicted on itself though Alberta cannot seem to make up its mind on whether it wants to be bailed out or prove how strong and independent it is.

First off, one of the issues with diversifying the economy in AB is she doesn’t have the same type of access to the markets as other provinces. Many businesses outside oil & gas incubated in calgary for example have to eventually move to ON or Vancouver for this very reason. It certainly a problem, but not one AB is in a good position to solve. I personally know of especially the efforts of the NDP government to make it happen least lose to UCP. Did not go well....

The issue with this ridiculous ‘eastrean’ attitude personified in both Trudeaus is it completely ignores the entire reason we are in a federation and I guarantee you AB & SK & likely much of BC will join the US if this kind of federal meddling in favour of vote centric east continues.

Alberta works based on lower taxation and has strong public social services, but their ability to meet the needs of their citizens is hurt when the federal government makes national policy at the exclusion of their interests. For example, dollar parity helps the west well hurting the ON manufacturing. That needs to be balanced. It not easy. This is why canada is a federation to give power to the provincial governments to protect their regional interests.

This very issue is why the US wisely set up the 2 senator per state system as a check on this type of overeach at the national level.

They should tax like Quebec. In that case why even have provincial/states governments at all? Heres a better question, Quebec is one of the best economically positioned provnces in the federation, why is it have-not at all? Let alone the have-not? Seems to me maybe its about time they only offer what they can afford.

 

[Grand Mal]

And why did this court halt the pipeline???

Because it said the consultation process didn't properly consider the concerns of the First Nations.
Haven't you been paying attention?

 

[Carjosse]

First off, one of the issues with diversifying the economy in AB is she doesn’t have the same type of access to the markets as other provinces. Many businesses outside oil & gas incubated in calgary for example have to eventually move to ON or Vancouver for this very reason. It certainly a problem, but not one AB is in a good position to solve. I personally know of especially the efforts of the NDP government to make it happen least lose to UCP. Did not go well....

The issue with this ridiculous ‘eastrean’ attitude personified in both Trudeaus is it completely ignores the entire reason we are in a federation and I guarantee you AB & SK & likely much of BC will join the US if this kind of federal meddling in favour of vote centric east continues.

Alberta works based on lower taxation and has strong public social services, but their ability to meet the needs of their citizens is hurt when the federal government makes national policy at the exclusion of their interests. For example, dollar parity helps the west well hurting the ON manufacturing. That needs to be balanced. It not easy. This is why canada is a federation to give power to the provincial governments to protect their regional interests.

This very issue is why the US wisely set up the 2 senator per state system as a check on this type of overeach at the national level.

They should tax like Quebec. In that case why even have provincial/states governments at all? Heres a better question, Quebec is one of the best economically positioned provnces in the federation, why is it have-not at all? Let alone the have-not? Seems to me maybe its about time they only offer what they can afford.

Ontario and Quebec hold 64% of the population of the entire country as well as the majority of the GDP, why should they not have a say in politics representative of their size? Alberta has to learn that it is also part of a confederation and respect other provinces sovereignty and stop painting the rest of the country as its enemy. You are complaining about the federal government imposing what exactly? Meanwhile Alberta tries to impose a pipeline on other provinces. Alberta got itself into this hole, it can get itself out, even if that means it needs to raise taxes to make up for lost oil revenue.

Also even in a US style senate the West would still be outvoted by the East, all it would do is give the Maritimes (a Liberal stronghold) a lot more power.

If you read the original OP it explains why Alberta pays into equalization and Quebec benefits.

 

[Conaeolos]

Just to be clear, I do know these posts are low on facts/meat. I am speaking broadly by choice.

Ontario and Quebec hold 64% of the population of the entire country as well as the majority of the GDP, why should they not have a say in politics representative of their size?

Why should Canada be a federation with strong provincial governments with a limited federal meddling instead of a centralized one? Ultimately it’s a choice, but essentially because Canada is a giant diverse country and not doing so comes with alienation and ultimately separation. Look at french as an example. Should high government positions require its understanding due to Quebec? Of course, but out west there is like a few very some small french communities in Northern Alberta / Sask. The average young Westerner is not going to be exposed to french(schools can’t get teachers and with no practical use it doesn’t take anyway).Most are more likely to learn chinese/spanish if picking a second language as its far more practical. That one factor significantly limits political opportunity for every westerner(really non-québécois)...you don’t think its a problem when your government disenfranchised huge swaths of your country since their a minority again and again without balance or limits?

Alberta has to learn that it is also part of a confederation and respect other provinces sovereignty and stop painting the rest of the country as its enemy.

There are specific government policies to that get ire. Harper didn’t split the country. Albertans don’t view the rest of the county as the enemy. They simply recognized a bad deal, the longer it happens the more and more Albertans connect and consider America perhaps a better ally(even moving there like myself). A regional balanced senate would be a great start to establish a check - yet its not even on the table. And GDP per capta is still much higher in lower populations regions not just AB, an oddity in most of these situations, so its not like when there is claims of not paying the bills it doesn’t carry weight.

Different regions need different policies it a challenge in a large country like Canada.

You are complaining about the federal government imposing what exactly?

Alberta is currently struggling and where is the attention being spent? How long has Quebec been a have not and failed to get out? Why is the formula so skewed to them? I want the federal government to be limited, so the provincial governments can meet their regional needs.

Alberta is not suddenly expecting to be a have-not they literally just want their subsidies going around more fairly and keep their investment working on their interests without undue meddling.

Meanwhile Alberta tries to impose a pipeline on other provinces.

That is legitimate federal jurisdiction so yeah I side with the rights of provinces to resist, but as a landlocked mid province with limited access to markets to begin with and surplus supply. Its odd when the federal government is resisting the safest transportation method. You think they should celebrating? What? More Foreign oil making it to our domestic market?

Alberta got itself into this hole, it can get itself out, even if that means it needs to raise taxes to make up for lost oil revenue.

Hole? Alberta isn’t the have-not. They barely have debt.They are just in an employment crisis with a unnecessary economic slowdown due to low oil price, at capacity refineries and blocked export transportation. Most of all though current policies are scaring away investment(projects instead going to scary part of the world). New taxes make that worse not better. AB is a low tax region by design (AB is remote, it doesn’t have ports or the east coast united states market a hop scotch away - it needs economic incentives to thrive)

AB has the capital and political will to make it happen. If they win everybody has more, but no the feds are getting in the way based on eastern interests. Buying pipes(exactly no one wanted the). AB is NDP still, trying $15 minimum, dropping coal, etc etc this is not policy disagreement its willful western alienation and lack of representation.

If you read the original OP it explains why Alberta pays into equalization and Quebec benefits.

Equalization reform does not change that principle it only better disperses the funds. I ask again why with all the advantages has Quebec stayed the have-not? AB gets her top quality public services done for less...maybe it time Quebec take care of Quebec!

Again, its a choice, this is our current arrangement, but I guarantee the tipping point will come and west will look to the US and in that moment Canada will not win. And Quebec and Ontario are actually broke. So good luck with fighting that. Ab and Sask are one the few still fighting for their futures.

 

[Surrealistik]

No they haven't. A court has halted pipeline construction. And speaking as a life-long liberal the federal government had no business buying that pipeline. That's something an NDP government would do.

NDP engaging in what amounted to a sweet heart corporate subsidy/bailout for Kinder Morgan by overpaying for a pipeline to the tune of $1-2 billion?

I think not; this is very much a Liberal thing, though I do very much appreciate the partisan attempt to project your party's sins onto my own per some dubious basis of economic nationalization because they are inconvenient to acknowledge.

 

[Buzz62]

Because it said the consultation process didn't properly consider the concerns of the First Nations.
Haven't you been paying attention?

So actually...some natives and some "greenies" put up a fuss which brought it to court.
Got it.
You wanna check out something called the Eagle Spirit Energy Pipeline. You also wanna check out why so many Indian bands actually signed off to agree with the pipeline.
This is annoying "greenies" speaking FOR Indians in most cases. This is loud and obnoxious "greenies" costing the entire nation significant funds just so they can feel good about themselves. This is some Indians, protecting their own pipeline proposal.

Ya I've been paying attention.
Have you?

 

[Quag]

Quebec has no political will to do so, especially a new government. Why can't Alberta just institute a sales tax or raise income taxes like every other province?

Implementing a sales tax will only hurt a faltering economy. There is no way we are getting off oil any time soon. the oil is still going to move through Quebec. The only real question is it better to use pipelines which are far safer or rail which lac Megantic has shown to be far less so.
Honestly I think its more a matter of cheap political points than anything else. People like to be anti-oil until the gas prices go up. So since Quebec wont make a huge profit off the oil lines they see it as an easy thing to attack

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

First off, one of the issues with diversifying the economy in AB is she doesn’t have the same type of access to the markets as other provinces. Many businesses outside oil & gas incubated in calgary for example have to eventually move to ON or Vancouver for this very reason. It certainly a problem, but not one AB is in a good position to solve. I personally know of especially the efforts of the NDP government to make it happen least lose to UCP. Did not go well....

The issue with this ridiculous ‘eastrean’ attitude personified in both Trudeaus is it completely ignores the entire reason we are in a federation and I guarantee you AB & SK & likely much of BC will join the US if this kind of federal meddling in favour of vote centric east continues.

Alberta works based on lower taxation and has strong public social services, but their ability to meet the needs of their citizens is hurt when the federal government makes national policy at the exclusion of their interests. For example, dollar parity helps the west well hurting the ON manufacturing. That needs to be balanced. It not easy. This is why canada is a federation to give power to the provincial governments to protect their regional interests.

This very issue is why the US wisely set up the 2 senator per state system as a check on this type of overeach at the national level.

They should tax like Quebec. In that case why even have provincial/states governments at all? Heres a better question, Quebec is one of the best economically positioned provnces in the federation, why is it have-not at all? Let alone the have-not? Seems to me maybe its about time they only offer what they can afford.

In general the ability of Alberta to diversify its economy is hindered by the size and success of the oil and gas industry. Manufacturing does not work in Alberta for anything other than the oil and gas industry. The cost of shipping, labour and land makes it uneconomical. For all industries other than oil and gas, trying to compete with the salaries and wages in that industry when it is doing well makes it impossible to compete. Alberta could try to go the high tech route, but does not have the technical base to start and the colder weather and smaller population would make it difficult to attract the talent required for it

 

[Carjosse]

~snip~

Whether you like it or not ~25% of the population speaks French and French is an official language and people have a RIGHT to conduct federal business in French no matter what province they are in and hiring has to reflect that. More people speak French than the entire population of the prairies. The East is both the economically, demographically, and politically the heart of Canada, and policy has to reflect that. Like I said before regional representation would not benefit Alberta and the West, the East would still dominate 6-4, Alberta would actually have less power. The big winners would be the maritimes and they have different interests to the West.

The reason Alberta is a have province is that it should theoretically have plenty of revenue, if it taxed at the national average but it does not, that is problem. Alberta needs a more reliable tax base. Quebec is have not province because it taxes at an above average rate but does not yield as much revenue because Quebec has a much older population and incomes are lower.

 

[Carjosse]

In general the ability of Alberta to diversify its economy is hindered by the size and success of the oil and gas industry. Manufacturing does not work in Alberta for anything other than the oil and gas industry. The cost of shipping, labour and land makes it uneconomical. For all industries other than oil and gas, trying to compete with the salaries and wages in that industry when it is doing well makes it impossible to compete. Alberta could try to go the high tech route, but does not have the technical base to start and the colder weather and smaller population would make it difficult to attract the talent required for it

You don't need high-tech, try professional services and high-skill manufacturing. Things that are far less sensitive to geographic location.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

You don't need high-tech, try professional services and high-skill manufacturing. Things that are far less sensitive to geographic location.

Both would have to compete with salaries in the oil and gas sector

My old company was looking for a millwright (back in 2013-14), it was a manufacturer of agricultural pesticides. The going rate for them in Calgary at the time was over $80 000 per year and difficult to find at that rate. For those willing to go up north the pay was over $140 000. The wages for high tech high skill manufacturing in Alberta would have to compete with those salaries. Making it cheaper and more profitable to do it in say Quebec or Ontario.

Back in the early 80s Alberta spent hundreds of millions on Novatel (a telecom company). It could not compete with the advent of Korean and Japanese companies (let alone US). The Oil and gas sector is both a great gift and a curse on Alberta. It provides lots of jobs and money, but it crowds out other industries that are not able to move due to geography (ie Agriculture or mining)

 

[Carjosse]

Both would have to compete with salaries in the oil and gas sector

My old company was looking for a millwright (back in 2013-14), it was a manufacturer of agricultural pesticides. The going rate for them in Calgary at the time was over $80 000 per year and difficult to find at that rate. For those willing to go up north the pay was over $140 000. The wages for high tech high skill manufacturing in Alberta would have to compete with those salaries. Making it cheaper and more profitable to do it in say Quebec or Ontario.

Back in the early 80s Alberta spent hundreds of millions on Novatel (a telecom company). It could not compete with the advent of Korean and Japanese companies (let alone US). The Oil and gas sector is both a great gift and a curse on Alberta. It provides lots of jobs and money, but it crowds out other industries that are not able to move due to geography (ie Agriculture or mining)

Then suddenly a lot of those jobs disappeared. Well it would definitely not be easy but it could work, it would just require years maybe even decades of planning and investment in business and education. You have to offer something to make up the extra cost.

 

[Surrealistik]

In general the ability of Alberta to diversify its economy is hindered by the size and success of the oil and gas industry. Manufacturing does not work in Alberta for anything other than the oil and gas industry. The cost of shipping, labour and land makes it uneconomical. For all industries other than oil and gas, trying to compete with the salaries and wages in that industry when it is doing well makes it impossible to compete. Alberta could try to go the high tech route, but does not have the technical base to start and the colder weather and smaller population would make it difficult to attract the talent required for it

With the sun beginning to set on oil and gas, now is as good a time as ever to get the ball rolling on economic diversification; I don't even mind a substantial federal investment to that end, including infrastructure upgrades, and inflows of immigrants with needed technical backgrounds being directed there; a strong Alberta benefits us all, and it definitely needs help to extricate itself from this over reliance on fossil fuels.

That said, I do feel that as the economy prospers and the benefits of such investments are felt, taxes should probably be brought up in line to the national averages.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

With the sun beginning to set on oil and gas, now is as good a time as ever to get the ball rolling on economic diversification; I don't even mind a substantial federal investment to that end, including infrastructure upgrades, and inflows of immigrants with needed technical backgrounds being directed there; a strong Alberta benefits us all, and it definitely needs help to extricate itself from this over reliance on fossil fuels.

That said, I do feel that as the economy prospers and the benefits of such investments are felt, taxes should probably be brought up in line to the national averages.

It cant be manufacturing, as any plants set up would never be competitive over the long term. It could be R&D or software related, but then Alberta domestically would be competing with Vancouver, southern Ontario and Mont. I really like Calgary, but beyond the proximity to Banff, attracting the tech talent to Alberta over those regions would be difficult domestically. Without oil and gas the population of Alberta, would shrink rather grow. The average income would drop to levels like the rest of Canada.

If taxes were raised in Alberta, that would just drive out the business's that we would want to diversify the economy. Why come to Alberta, when you could go to the coast of BC, lower taxes, sure, similar taxes not likely

 

[Surrealistik]

It cant be manufacturing, as any plants set up would never be competitive over the long term. It could be R&D or software related, but then Alberta domestically would be competing with Vancouver, southern Ontario and Mont. I really like Calgary, but beyond the proximity to Banff, attracting the tech talent to Alberta over those regions would be difficult domestically. Without oil and gas the population of Alberta, would shrink rather grow. The average income would drop to levels like the rest of Canada.

If taxes were raised in Alberta, that would just drive out the business's that we would want to diversify the economy. Why come to Alberta, when you could go to the coast of BC, lower taxes, sure, similar taxes not likely

Tax increases would be gradually phased in on a measured basis as the benefits of the investment become apparent and the economy prospers, and in proportion to that increment in prosperity; pretty standard Keynesian stuff. If they don't materialize, the taxes don't increase; that's the deal. Tech savvy immigrants directed to Alberta would certainly be helpful in establishing a tech centre, along with federal subsidy and grants. I agree it would be difficult to jumpstart, but the resources are available, and it must be done: an economy cannot be so completely beholden to a volatile and finite resource that is likely to become stranded after a couple of decades; far too much risk.

 

[Conaeolos]

~snip~

I admire your stubbornness, but you don’t seem to be open to debating on principles alone, as no one here is arguing to end equalization or to alienate Quebec instead. So let’s revisit those dollars and cents shall we: stats

First, because of the nature of a transfer payment it is important to combine federal and provincial tax revenues and compare it to direct spending at both levels (minus national priorities such as defense):

In 2017, Quebec collected $18,302 per citizen with governments spending $19,863 per citizen [57% via provincial, 43% federal]. For reference that means with more factors considered the 22B transfer is closer to 13B in real terms. On the positive side since 2013 that subsidy dropped by 8%, provincial investment rose 10%, GDP per capita is up 3%. A GDP adjusted tax burden measure did see 5% increase. And Quebec’s citizens do still have a higher than average taxation burden; Alberta being about 13% less with both an increase percentage of higher earners and average wages; however, it is worth noting the cost of living estimates put Alberta around 25% above Quebec. So this idea to tax more provincially will likely only raise provincial spending which is not at all below average and simply put Alberta more ahead of the pack and Quebec even further behind as the negative effects to AB of higher taxes reduce the federal transfer.

Meanwhile, Alberta collected around $21,594 per citizen with a governments spending $18,345 per citizen. This would mean of the $50 billion paid in federal tax about 40% is used to subsidize other regions. Since the same 2013 due to economic problems in Alberta that contribution is down 7%. That extra responsibility also saw the tax burden increase about 14%. GDP per capita shrinking 14%. Capital Investment down 50%.

With the sun beginning to set on oil and gas, now is as good a time as ever to get the ball rolling on economic diversification

That is a measurable and what the numbers paint is a very different story. stats

In 2014, AB investment outside mining/oil/gas saw more gross capital than every province minus Ontario. And despite that 50% loss in investment due to the attack on oil industry, including what remains dominates without equal investment per capita. Again, excluding oil & gas Alberta still sees double the investment per capita of Quebec & 36% that of Ontario. Gross Alberta investment measured this way is only 19% less than Quebec total.

Alberta is trying to diversify but being landlocked away from markets is a huge issue and oil and gas is huge. In 2014 for example oil and gas investment in Alberta alone was gross equal to that of every sector in Ontario.

 

[Surrealistik]

That is a measurable and what the numbers paint is a very different story. stats

In 2014, AB investment outside mining/oil/gas saw more gross capital than every province minus Ontario. And despite that 50% loss in investment due to the attack on oil industry, including what remains dominates without equal investment per capita. Again, excluding oil & gas Alberta still sees double the investment per capita of Quebec & 36% that of Ontario. Gross Alberta investment measured this way is only 19% less than Quebec total.

Alberta is trying to diversify but being landlocked away from markets is a huge issue and oil and gas is huge. In 2013 for example oil and gas investment in Alberta alone was gross equal to that of every sector in Ontario.

Per more recent numbers, Ontario capital expenditures dwarfs that of Alberta; those oil boom times are gone, and they're probably not coming back for some time if at all. Even if they do, it'd be an idiotic idea to keep going all in on oil. Ultimately, nothing you've said really changes the fact that diversification is a good idea, as are attempts to accelerate it before any further worsening, which is essentially what I'm saying. Why wait for further erosion before taking action?

 

[Conaeolos]

those oil boom times are gone, and they're probably not coming back for some time if at all.

Alberta is definitely in a transition with lots of challenges. The pipelines are not happening in the foreseeable and hope on the larger underlying refinery solution is further away the longer she has capital flight. So I agree an Oil boom is certainly not on the horizon. Pot being the most lucrative current growth industy although drop in the bucket without the US market and likely to be dominated by BC.

I know I am even considering transitioning most of my Canadian ventures out of my beloved Calgary, maybe even going America only; although, I can't seem to settle on the state to make the new home base and my Canmore home still my favourite get-away. Damn Home towns.

Oil in the ground though is only going up in value from how I see it; don't get me wrong, my environmental sympathies would hope the clear delay in extraction will be too much for an advent of an alternative and thus it staying there forever. I invest and known a lot more about those alternative technologies and sadly I just don't see it. So the Boom will very likely be back at some point the only question is will the West still feel at all apart of Canada by then? Too far out to say but IMHO, absent the PPC gaining a voice or a move on the federal NDP back fiscally conservative social progressive playbook not likely. The conservatives remind me of the British conservatives, their base is souring and the worse thing they could do is win; the Liberals have made clear they only care for Trudeau's population centre/import voter strategy. We will see.

Higher taxes in AB though is almost most certian to make a bad situation worse. Spending there is already above average. It just richer.

Per more recent numbers, Ontario capital expenditures dwarfs that of Alberta;

LOL. Dwarfs? How? Ontario's certianly our most devloped economy and doing better but she is still broke and propped up by a low dollar. Her biggest factors on that being public sector and subsidized utilities neither diversifying her economy(in fact quite the opposite). ON added 700,000 people in that time double Alberta. Their taxation portion and spending were subsidized in 2014 and only recently came back net positive. Their provincial spending is below average. Their current national contribution of 13% is gross still less than Albertas despite her being 3x the size. Meanwhile their tax burden is up 13% and higher than even Quebec.

Yeah, count on ON to prop up the struggling provinces to the downfall of the nation. She need to diversify more than anyone and unlike alberta has the labour pool and access to the markets to do it. The numbers there look alright but preforming below not above average. The policies to date have been lack luster but Ford is certianly one not to count out.

an idiotic idea to keep going all in on oil.

You act like there is an equal Canadian sector to AB oil & gas. There is not. By every metric Alberta is the top preforming province for investing hard in diversifying her economy. in fact, had she kept the rewards all in provience likely wouldn't even need the sector anymore. Many major national companies outside energy having their started there, heard of: West-jet, Freedom Mobile(Shaw), Forzani group, Agrium, Rexal, Landmark, Bioware, Booster Juice, the Brick, PCL, Pizza 73, Booster Juice etc etc

Ultimately, nothing you've said really changes the fact that diversification is a good idea, as are attempts to accelerate it before any further worsening, which is essentially what I'm saying. Why wait for further erosion before taking action?

That's the point they are taking those actions. A lot more than most of Canada.It is down right misinformative to say they rest on oil. You know what would help everyone: not chasing away any capital including the oil and gas sector for no other reason except to purposefully reducing oil exports[not demand].

AB in her stuggling times has still given into the national Canadian pot over a $100 billion dollars(1/3 the federal budet) in just the last 5 years and remains the region most attractive to investment by size. Hurt Alberta. You hurt the economic engine of the Country. And as I've said many times such thinking will break up the country and has alrady chased away people like me. So it's worth considering even if just as an average Canadian.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Tax increases would be gradually phased in on a measured basis as the benefits of the investment become apparent and the economy prospers, and in proportion to that increment in prosperity; pretty standard Keynesian stuff. If they don't materialize, the taxes don't increase; that's the deal. Tech savvy immigrants directed to Alberta would certainly be helpful in establishing a tech centre, along with federal subsidy and grants. I agree it would be difficult to jumpstart, but the resources are available, and it must be done: an economy cannot be so completely beholden to a volatile and finite resource that is likely to become stranded after a couple of decades; far too much risk.

The only potential diversification that could work would be

Spend $2-3 billion a year on R&D at Alberta Universities (government funding only). With all patents arising from the research and development being split among the researchers, the university, and the government. With the licensing of the patents going primarily local business's in the hopes of creating start ups, that can grow to become next generation larger companies. Or at least be bought out at a profit.

It is the R&D that would create long term wealth development for the province rather than make work or trying to support manufacturing that will fail to be competitive