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Al-Zawahiri target of Predator Drone.

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It is still unconfirmed but it may be possible that Al-Qaedas number two man Al-Zawahiri was killed by a CIA predator drone launched Hellfire missille on the Pakistan side of the border. This is the guy who's been speaking for Al-Qaeda lately probably due to O.B.L. being dead already.
 

Pacridge

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
It is still unconfirmed but it may be possible that Al-Qaedas number two man Al-Zawahiri was killed by a CIA predator drone launched Hellfire missille on the Pakistan side of the border. This is the guy who's been speaking for Al-Qaeda lately probably due to O.B.L. being dead already.

Pakistani officials are saying we didn't get him. Course they could be wrong, they're not happy with our actions. Or at least they're saying they're not happy. The regions obviously politically complicated, perhaps they are happy about it but publicly saying they're not. So many things are not what they seem in this area.

http://news.inq7.net/world/index.php?index=1&story_id=62998
 

libertarian_knight

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looks like they missed, from latest reports.

got 17 other poeple though, and what 100 or so injured?
 

Cremaster77

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Assuming that Al-Zawahiri wasn't killed, will anyone on the Right accuse the Bush Administration of sending some drone to shoot missles at camels as they have accused Clinton of lobbing cruise missles at camels when he tried to hit OBL in Afghanistan?
 

cnredd

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Cremaster77 said:
Assuming that Al-Zawahiri wasn't killed, will anyone on the Right accuse the Bush Administration of sending some drone to shoot missles at camels as they have accused Clinton of lobbing cruise missles at camels when he tried to hit OBL in Afghanistan?
If Clinton hit a camel, it would have been an improvement...

He hit NOTHING...Empty training camps...Bin Laden was long gone...he knew America might respond to the attacks on the African Embassies, so he moved out and took his entourage with him...

And then the actual attack...One day...a few bombs that did no damage...Bin laden probably laughed himself to sleep saying, "That's it?!?!?...That's all you're going to do to try and stop me?!!??!"...

This did absolutely nothing except show our enemies any attack against them is half-hearted and weak...

Clinton would've done better if he sent them a nice letter saying they were "bad men"...

At least with Bush, there are repeated attempts throughout the last few years to attack our enemies...Not going 0-for-1, then stopping altogether...
 

Kandahar

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Heh, how many times are they going to kill the No. 2 Al-Qaeda guy? This has to be at least the fourth or fifth time.
 

Tashah

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Hit or miss... this still implies that Task Force-21 is hot on the trail. It also implies that the Bush administration is not going to allow geographical borders or political correctness to interfere with terminating the al-Qa'ida heirarchy with extreme prejudice if necessary.

Until I am informed otherwise I will assume that al-Zawahiri either was, or had been present at the target... and that those killed and wounded had close ties to the al-Qa'ida organization. Under this scenario then, not striking would be tantamount to criminal negligence IMHO.
 

ANAV

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cnredd said:
If Clinton hit a camel, it would have been an improvement...

He hit NOTHING...Empty training camps...Bin Laden was long gone...he knew America might respond to the attacks on the African Embassies, so he moved out and took his entourage with him...

And then the actual attack...One day...a few bombs that did no damage...Bin laden probably laughed himself to sleep saying, "That's it?!?!?...That's all you're going to do to try and stop me?!!??!"...

This did absolutely nothing except show our enemies any attack against them is half-hearted and weak...

Clinton would've done better if he sent them a nice letter saying they were "bad men"...

At least with Bush, there are repeated attempts throughout the last few years to attack our enemies...Not going 0-for-1, then stopping altogether...
Excellent Post.

Clinton reacted because that is what the public expected, not because he gave a damn about getting OBL. If had gave a damn he would have pursued terrorist throughout his administration. There were several other terror attacks that he did nothing about.

Back to the topic.
There seems to be conflicting information on who was killed. The locals (who were most likely harboring terrorist and have something to hide) claim that only civilians were killed. And an unidentified Pakistan official says that eleven extremist were killed and that twelve bodies are having DNA tests run.

President Gen. Pervez Musharraf said in speech "If we keep sheltering foreign terrorists here ... our future will not be good. Remember what I say."

So there is an acknowledged problem of tribesmen working with terrorist. It's time for Pakistan to start rooting out the remote border regions or the US will continue to do if for them.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060115/D8F550F00.html
 

TimmyBoy

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I think we missed em because Al-Zawahiri probably suspected something was up and he didn't show up at the location he was supposed to be at.
 

Ahem

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It seems the New York Times is as clueless as ever when it comes to weaponry.

The picture captioned as:

"Pakistani men with the remains of a missile fired at a house in the Bajur tribal zone near the Afghan border."


http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/01/14/international/worldspecial/14cnd-afghan.ready.html

Actually shows a 155mm artillery shell.

So the NYT can't tell the difference between a missile and an artillery shell.
Par for the course where the MSM is concerned.
 

Ahem

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The possibility that this was an "own goal" shouldn't be ignored.

There's plenty of unexploded ordnance stashed away throughout those border regions that are nominally under the control of the Pakistan government.

I doubt that the locals would be capable of looking after a bomb dump in a professional manner.
 

MSgt

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Before the bleeding hearts get on here and turn this into a violent act from America that killed innocent civilians, let's remember something....

Terrorists surround themselves with Radicals for protection. None of them were "innocent."
 

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I think what happenned in this case, was that the CIA got information from the Pakistani Intelligence Service that Al-Zahahiri was about to meet somewhere in Pakistan. Their are alot of people in the Pakistani government, in Pakistani society and in Pakistani Intelligence Services who are sympathetic to Al-Queda. Given this fact, it is good speculation that what happenned, was somehow, somebody in Pakistani Intelligence found out about the upcoming CIA strike on Al-Zawahiri and let Al-Zawahiri know it was coming. Al-Zawahiri being notified by Pakistani Intelligence then did not show up at the meeting place where the CIA planned to kill him. I think the CIA probably has to rely alot on informants that are untrustworthy in Pakistani intelligence and maybe in Al-queda itself, because an informant who is American and thus a higher probability of being loyal to America, would have a hard time gathering information on Al-queda and infiltrating the organization. So foreign informants and foreign intelligence services have to be used to gather information and they are sometimes very untrustworthy.
 

RightinNYC

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TimmyBoy said:
I think what happenned in this case, was that the CIA got information from the Pakistani Intelligence Service that Al-Zahahiri was about to meet somewhere in Pakistan. Their are alot of people in the Pakistani government, in Pakistani society and in Pakistani Intelligence Services who are sympathetic to Al-Queda. Given this fact, it is good speculation that what happenned, was somehow, somebody in Pakistani Intelligence found out about the upcoming CIA strike on Al-Zawahiri and let Al-Zawahiri know it was coming. Al-Zawahiri being notified by Pakistani Intelligence then did not show up at the meeting place where the CIA planned to kill him. I think the CIA probably has to rely alot on informants that are untrustworthy in Pakistani intelligence and maybe in Al-queda itself, because an informant who is American and thus a higher probability of being loyal to America, would have a hard time gathering information on Al-queda and infiltrating the organization. So foreign informants and foreign intelligence services have to be used to gather information and they are sometimes very untrustworthy.
You should forward that expert analysis to the CIA immediately. Be sure to copy bush too, I'm positive he'll want you in his office at 0800 to brief him on foreign intelligence and other geopolitical affairs.:mrgreen:
 

TimmyBoy

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RightatNYU said:
You should forward that expert analysis to the CIA immediately. Be sure to copy bush too, I'm positive he'll want you in his office at 0800 to brief him on foreign intelligence and other geopolitical affairs.:mrgreen:
Bush already has people smarter than me working for him. He has no need for my amateur services. I was just hypothesizing what I think likely happenned. I mean, my hypothesis seems logical and rationale enough, but in the end, that is all it is, speculation and hypothesizing heh heh. Fighting terrorists requires spying and intelligence and in that world, everybody and everything is shady and nothing is as it seems. As Sun Tzu likes to say, All warfare is based on deception.
 

AndrewC

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GySgt said:
Before the bleeding hearts get on here and turn this into a violent act from America that killed innocent civilians, let's remember something....

Terrorists surround themselves with Radicals for protection. None of them were "innocent."


Did you know the deceased personally? Do you have concrete evidence to support your claims that these people were not innocent? Would you condemn a man for his opinion or is it just their nationality you find so objectionable?

Life is fragile my friend. One day you will realize this. I fail to see how your rational is any different than the terrorists. You make same sweeping judgements as they do. You find no innocence in the land of your enemy!
 

Middleground

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GySgt said:
Terrorists surround themselves with Radicals for protection. None of them were "innocent."
Do you mean like family members and/or friends? Would you say that all terrorist come from hateful and radical families?
 

cnredd

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Middleground said:
Do you mean like family members and/or friends? Would you say that all terrorist come from hateful and radical families?
He was referring to geography and not blood relations...

If you're going to start a Klan, do you go to the backwoods of Kentucky where you may be more accepted or the middle of Harlem where you'd end up on a slab by midnight?

From the angle Gunny was referring to, it is very logical that you want to be surrounded by people that protect and support you and hold the same beliefs...

Wherever OBL hangs his hat every night, it's pretty well sure that it's not in the middle of "innocents" that mind him being there...
 

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AndrewC said:
Did you know the deceased personally? Do you have concrete evidence to support your claims that these people were not innocent? Would you condemn a man for his opinion or is it just their nationality you find so objectionable?

Life is fragile my friend. One day you will realize this. I fail to see how your rational is any different than the terrorists. You make same sweeping judgements as they do. You find no innocence in the land of your enemy!
A brand new bleeding heart. Don't embarrass yourself....oops too late. Read my next post.
 
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MSgt

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Middleground said:
Do you mean like family members and/or friends? Would you say that all terrorist come from hateful and radical families?

There is a lot of reality that people dispel with when they read these types of occurrences in the news or hear their favorite reporters give the story through award winning dramatics. Most have no clue about anything regarding Pakistan, Radical Islam, or warfare.

This is the reality...Radical Muslims account for between 1% to 20% of Islam. This is about 12 and 150 million people. Most Radicals are not terrorist, but are the "sea from which the terrorist swim." This is where they seek refuge and this is where they headquarter. Terrorists surround themselves with a Radical element. Those 17 civillians were not so "innocent." And let's not forget that terrorist wear no uniform and they march under no banner. They resemble moderate and Radical muslims alike. They too, can be considered civillians. When terrorists attempt to hide amid the civilian population, we must pursue them without hesitation. They cannot be allowed a single safe haven. If they use their neighbors as shields, it is the terrorists who are to blame should civilians die. If they attempt to use their families as cover, they will be responsible for the deaths of their own loved ones. The world must learn that, when civilians allow terrorists to use them, the civilians become legitimate military targets.

This is not about diplomatic table manners. It is a fight to exterminate human monsters. This is not a rational phenomenon. It will not be appeased. It will not be solved by persuasion, any more than the Klan was solved by persuasion. Any more than the Gulags were solved by persuasion. The price for these things will be high. The price of losing, on any of these fronts, is everything. Choose.
 
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libertarian_knight

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GySgt said:
There is a lot of reality that people dispel with when they read these types of occurrences in the news or hear their favorite reporters give the story through award winning dramatics. Most have no clue about anything regarding Pakistan, Radical Islam, or warfare.

This is the reality...Radical Muslims account for between 1% to 20% of Islam1. This is about 12 and 150 million people. Most Radicals are not terrorist, but are the "sea from which the terrorist swim." This is where they seek refuge and this is where they headquarter. Terrorists surround themselves with a Radical element. Those 17 civillians were not so "innocent." And let's not forget that terrorist wear no uniform and they march under no banner. They resemble moderate and Radical muslims alike. They too, can be considered civillians. When terrorists attempt to hide amid the civilian population, we must pursue them without hesitation. They cannot be allowed a single safe haven. If they use their neighbors as shields, it is the terrorists who are to blame should civilians die. If they attempt to use their families as cover, they will be responsible for the deaths of their own loved ones. 2The world must learn that, when civilians allow terrorists to use them, the civilians become legitimate military targets.

This is not about diplomatic table manners. It is a fight to exterminate human monsters. This is not a rational phenomenon. It will not be appeased. It will not be solved by persuasion, any more than the Klan was solved by persuasion. Any more than the Gulags were solved by persuasion. The price for these things will be high. The price of losing, on any of these fronts, is everything. Choose.
1. statistically invalid. you're more than an order of magnitude between ranges.

2. rationalization, but not rational. Negligence and Incompitance on the part of one shooter, does not but blame on the other shooter by default. "collateral damage" is "acceptable" (I don't agree) under law, Stupidity is not.

Lastly, Judgement is not afforded to you.
 

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Cremaster77 said:
Assuming that Al-Zawahiri wasn't killed, will anyone on the Right accuse the Bush Administration of sending some drone to shoot missles at camels as they have accused Clinton of lobbing cruise missles at camels when he tried to hit OBL in Afghanistan?
If that were ALL Bush was doing as with Clinton then maybe and since Pakistan confirms 10 top terrorist operatives killed in the attack I'd call it successful.
 

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AndrewC said:
Did you know the deceased personally? Do you have concrete evidence to support your claims that these people were not innocent? Would you condemn a man for his opinion or is it just their nationality you find so objectionable?

Life is fragile my friend. One day you will realize this. I fail to see how your rational is any different than the terrorists. You make same sweeping judgements as they do. You find no innocence in the land of your enemy!
Pakistan this morning is confirming it was a meeting of high level terrorist operatives and officers and that we got 10 high value targets. Sorry to burst your bubble but this was a win for the US and the fight against terrorism.
 

libertarian_knight

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Stinger said:
Pakistan this morning is confirming it was a meeting of high level terrorist operatives and officers and that we got 10 high value targets. Sorry to burst your bubble but this was a win for the US and the fight against terrorism.
"4 or 5" is now 10?
 
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