Al-Qaeda-linked terror plot targeting Europe foiled

[Degreez]

Let it slide or not? I can't...

To ignore FDR's 'involvement' would be dishonest....

FDR did round up Japanese-Americans and put them into camps, destroying and confiscating their businesses. In nature, little different from what the NAZIs were doing, just a lesser degree.

In 1988, Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation accepted, that the actions against, the japanese were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership" (FDR)

Close to 2 billion in reparations were later given out by our government to Japanese Americans or their descendants who had suffered imprisonment

And Germany hasn't done anything similar to this for the Holocaust? $15 billion to Holocaust survivors with continuous compensation until 2015. $70 billion directly to the state of Israel. Drafting legislation to force companies that aided in the Holocaust to compensate victims.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

And Germany hasn't done anything similar to this for the Holocaust? --

You're a bit out of date in the thread - ric27's account and story neatly support what PeteEU was saying in the first place - that what happened in Germany had echoes of similar events in the US.

-- You'll find them right beside the ones I made.

Not good enough. I want examples.

-- Your question was "How many of the Japanese interned had ever shown disloyalty to the US?"

Now i want you to think about this for a moment. In a time of war would you show any disloyalty to your host nation? If you were behaving disloyally wouldn't you keep it a secret? Or perhaps not. If you were a spy in Nazi Germany you would have probably boasted about it, right?

There was no history leading up to their internment and as I said, approx 50% were children anyway. As ric27 has pointed out - the US Govt paid reparations for historical misconduct. If your version is right, there would have been no reparations.

-- Why should I show you what he said when we can all see what he said. And isn't up to PeteEU to defend his statements? Are you his keeper?

So you accept you were wrong and you've been beating to strawman.

-- You think Germans weren't harassed during WWII? It should be obvious that feelings were running higher in World Wars then they were in smaller wars.

Nice dodge - were US citizens of German descent locked up during WW1 or WW2? Or WW1?

Most of the interned Japanese during WW2 were US citizens. I'm not talking about German citizens in the US during WW2.

-- How about this?

"the Treaty of Paris, at the end of the Spanish–American War, transferred control of the Philippines to the United States. This agreement was not recognized by the Philippine Government which, on June 2, 1899, proclaimed a Declaration of War against the United States.The Philippine-American War which ensued resulted in massive casualties. Philippine president Emilio Aguinaldo was captured in 1901 and the U.S. government declared the conflict officially over in 1902".

History of the Philippines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But if it's any consolation, you appear to know more about the Philippines than you do about WWII.

My mistake - I was going from another source which argued that as the Philipinnes had been transferred to being a US colony that a declaration of war by a colonial underling could not be recognised as a true "declaration of war."

That still does not negate however the fact that Philipinnos were locked away and up to a million died under the US empire. The freedom loving US didn't seem to think freedom applied in equal measure to US black or Philipinno brown people - which neatly takes us back to the essence of what PeteEU was speaking of in the first place.

 

[Alvin T. Grey]

3,500; it took 14 countries to get that many. quite the wold power, you are.

European armies are primarily defensive in nature. We have nothing like SAC and MAC. Small blue water navies, and few foreign colonies and protectorates. We aren't geared up for large deployments abroad. The British and French are an anomoly. Heck, up until a few years ago the Germans were prohibited from operations outside their borders.
And at the time the British were in Afghanistan and Iraq, the French were in Afghanistan.

 

[Grant]

Not good enough. I want examples.

You still don't get it, huh?? I didn't make any internment camp jokes!!! So when you find mine mine you will find yours means that neither of us made them!

There was no history leading up to their internment

Right, but that is with hindsight and of course they were placed in a position where they would not be able to cause any further trouble in case they were sympathetic to the Japanese in Japan. They didn't want a "history"

No leaders at the time and as I said, approx 50% were children anyway. As ric27 has pointed out - the US Govt paid reparations for historical misconduct. If your version is right, there would have been no reparations.

The fact that reparations were made in the United States and Canada shows that following governments felt what happened to the Japanese was wrong. And don't think for a second there weren't political considerations here in order to make themselves look good. I've already said that taking their land without compensation was wrong, and that should never have happened. But were they wrong to do what they did in a time of war and without our present hindsight? I don't think so. They had to act in the best interests of the majority of the people, and that they did.

Nice dodge - were US citizens of German descent locked up during WW1 or WW2? Or WW1? Most of the interned Japanese during WW2 were US citizens. I'm not talking about German citizens in the US during WW2.

The difficulty with discussing these issues with some of you people is that I'm never quite sure whether you're being satirical or stupid. I'll guess that you're being satirical here, ok? Of course i was trying to point out that in a time of war, when stories about barbaric inhumanity are coming back to the people at home, angers rise dramatically. If all this went over your head then there is nothing I can add. And of course the Japanese in both countries, Canada and the United States, were sent to internment camps and their properties were also largely confiscated and reparations later made.

Most of the interned Japanese during WW2 were US citizens. I'm not talking about German citizens in the US during WW2.

Well I obviously was using that as a point of reference.

My mistake - I was going from another source which argued that as the Philipinnes had been transferred to being a US colony that a declaration of war by a colonial underling could not be recognised as a true "declaration of war."

I expect you've been using that source for a lot of what you think you know.

That still does not negate however the fact that Philipinnos were locked away and up to a million died under the US empire. The freedom loving US didn't seem to think freedom applied in equal measure to US black or Philipinno brown people - which neatly takes us back to the essence of what PeteEU was speaking of in the first place.

So the Philippines declared war on the United States, something you were adamant had never happened, and in a remarkable segue of the Americans winning this you then declare they racists. Yes, you and PeteEU both have a firm grasp on history, especially American history. As taught by the BBC and the Guardian, of course.

 

[Grant]

Alvin T. Grey -

European armies are primarily defensive in nature.

Yes, perhaps in a time of natural disaster, like a flood, they could fill sand bags.

We have nothing like SAC and MAC. Small blue water navies, and few foreign colonies and protectorates. We aren't geared up for large deployments abroad. The British and French are an anomoly. Heck, up until a few years ago the Germans were prohibited from operations outside their borders.
And at the time the British were in Afghanistan and Iraq, the French were in Afghanistan.

Right. Now Europeans have become armchair quarterbacks telling the Americans what the are doing wrong in the world, while their own continent collapses around them. You have not only have lost the will to fight, you've lost the will to maintain your own cultural identities and the freedoms you've inherited from your fathers.

 

[Alvin T. Grey]

Alvin T. Grey -

Yes, perhaps in a time of natural disaster, like a flood, they could fill sand bags.

That would be what you do in a natural disaster isn't it?

Right. Now Europeans have become armchair quarterbacks telling the Americans what the are doing wrong in the world, while their own continent collapses around them. You have not only have lost the will to fight, you've lost the will to maintain your own cultural identities and the freedoms you've inherited from your fathers.

Last time Europe projected power outside her borders we got accused of colonialism. Last time a European country projected power outside her borders they garrisoned an entire continent. We learned from that.

European armies are still geared to fight the cold war. It wasn't North Koreans we were worried about, but the thousands of WarPac tanks rolling through Germany. And the thing about that is, You can reach Moscow by road. Hence no requirement for massive airlift or maritime capacity.

 

[Grant]

That would be what you do in a natural disaster isn't it?

That's right. And I think they'd be quite good at it.

Last time Europe projected power outside her borders we got accused of colonialism.

And those accusations bothered you, did they? So it's not just sticks and stone then.

Last time a European country projected power outside her borders they garrisoned an entire continent. We learned from that.

And what lesson was that?

European armies are still geared to fight the cold war.

Fighting a "Cold War" is of course not fighting a real war at all. The Cold War consisted mainly of propaganda, at least as far as Western Europe was concerned, and most of that was directed against the Americans,

It wasn't North Koreans we were worried about, but the thousands of WarPac tanks rolling through Germany. And the thing about that is, You can reach Moscow by road. Hence no requirement for massive airlift or maritime capacity.

There was never any indication that Western European armies were ever heading along the road to Moscow, paved or otherwise.

 

[Alvin T. Grey]

That's right. And I think they'd be quite good at it.

I'm sure they are.

And those accusations bothered you, did they? So it's not just sticks and stone then.

Not really, But then again I'm not the one wailing on about dealing with the results of European colonialism or somesuch.

And what lesson was that?

Try not to start world wars. They have a habit of being rather costly, and play merry hell with the lawns.

Fighting a "Cold War" is of course not fighting a real war at all.

From Korea to Vietnam, Afghanistan, Central America, much of Africa were all battles in that war. They were just fought by proxy.

The Cold War consisted mainly of propaganda, at least as far as Western Europe was concerned,

Bollox, propaganda does not stop tanks. A credible deterrant and an uncertainty about the outcome does. - Please see above.

and most of that was directed against the Americans,

Snicker.....

There was never any indication that Western European armies were ever heading along the road to Moscow, paved or otherwise.

Exactly. That's what is ment by "Defensive".

 

[Infinite Chaos]

You still don't get it, huh?? I didn't make any internment camp jokes!!! So when you find mine mine you will find yours means that neither of us made them!

-- Right, but that is with hindsight and of course they were placed in a position where they would not be able to cause any further trouble in case they were sympathetic to the Japanese in Japan. They didn't want a "history"

And again - why did the US only put brown (Japanese) people away for their own "protection." At the same time US citizens of Japanese descent were incarcerated, US citizens of German descent were not: were probably even fighting in Europe and in the Pacific for the US.

They were never given the chance to prove loyalty till the end of the war when asked if they would swear alleigance to the US. The US citizens of Japanese descent had never shown any history of disloyalty - either before Pearl Harbour or after.

-- The fact that reparations were made in the United States and Canada shows that following governments felt what happened to the Japanese was wrong. And don't think for a second there weren't political considerations here in order to make themselves look good. I've already said that taking their land without compensation was wrong, and that should never have happened. But were they wrong to do what they did in a time of war and without our present hindsight? I don't think so. They had to act in the best interests of the majority of the people, and that they did --

You're simply trying to excuse racism here.

-- The difficulty with discussing these issues with some of you people is that I'm never quite sure whether you're being satirical or stupid. I'll guess that you're being satirical here, ok? Of course i was trying to point out that in a time of war, when stories about barbaric inhumanity are coming back to the people at home, angers rise dramatically. If all this went over your head then there is nothing I can add. And of course the Japanese in both countries, Canada and the United States, were sent to internment camps and their properties were also largely confiscated and reparations later made.

Did stories of barbaric inhumanity not come back from the Death Camps in Poland and Gemany too? I guess the reason there were no reactions against US citizens of German or Polish descent was because I'm being satirical or stupid and you're not simply an apologist for racism here are you?

-- Well I obviously was using that as a point of reference

And not answering the question.

-- I expect you've been using that source for a lot of what you think you know.

Ah, your history of failed arguements against me (including your out of date source on the Mumbai bombers on the other thread) is down to my poor source. Not simply poor comprehension and hysterical anti-European attitudes on your part.

uhuh..

-- So the Philippines declared war on the United States, something you were adamant had never happened, and in a remarkable segue of the Americans winning this you then declare they racists.

Did the US have concentration camps? Did 1million Philipinnos die at US hands or not? Did the US only intern Japanese Americans and leave white skinned descendents of combatant nations free and at liberty?

Yes, you and PeteEU both have a firm grasp on history, especially American history. As taught by the BBC and the Guardian, of course.

And you're an expert on the Mumbai bombers being british aren't you?

You're also denying that interning racially different citizens was for their defence when the US Govt itself has paid reparations for racially motivated actions aren't you?

If accuracy counts as poor grasp of American history, then I'll live with that. At least I don't have unreasoning blind hatred for another nation / continent.

 

[Ned Racine]

In early 1942 the US West Coast was subject to possible attack . That was the main motivating factor. Was it correct(??) History shows it was unjustified, but many prominent people of the time justified it including Earl Warren.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- Earl Warren.

Thank you Ned, you've given me a name that helps answer something Grant couldn't.

11,000 US citizens of German descent were interned, 3000 US Citizens of Italian ancestry were interned and Jewish refugees too. Some interned for short periods and others for longer beyond the war. All of the Japanese Nisei, Sansei or Issei were held for the complete duration and then questioned with oaths of allegiance.

I find it hard to believe however that only 14,000 US citizens turned out to be of German or Italian ancestry.... but I do find this quote from Mr Warren - "When we are dealing with the Caucasian race we have methods that will test the loyalty of them. But when we deal with the Japanese, we are on an entirely different field."

Nothing about protecting the Japanese descendents there.

 

[Grant]

In early 1942 the US West Coast was subject to possible attack . That was the main motivating factor. Was it correct(??) History shows it was unjustified, but many prominent people of the time justified it including Earl Warren.

Actually the West Coast of the United States was attacked twice, and of course there were further attempts..

 

[mikeey]

My good friends this is just a phase we're going through just now with the problems,but i am sure

we will get over it,times will change i hope for the better for all of us

thanks to the United states of America.

mikeey

 

[ric27]

Thank you Ned, you've given me a name that helps answer something Grant couldn't.

11,000 US citizens of German descent were interned, 3000 US Citizens of Italian ancestry were interned and Jewish refugees too. Some interned for short periods and others for longer beyond the war. All of the Japanese Nisei, Sansei or Issei were held for the complete duration and then questioned with oaths of allegiance.

I find it hard to believe however that only 14,000 US citizens turned out to be of German or Italian ancestry.... but I do find this quote from Mr Warren - "When we are dealing with the Caucasian race we have methods that will test the loyalty of them. But when we deal with the Japanese, we are on an entirely different field."

Nothing about protecting the Japanese descendents there.

We certainly had an outrage against the Japanese that didn't exist against the Germans or Italians for the most part. German immigrants had been part of America since before the Revolution. Germans as well as Italians looked like "us". Certainly there was an element of racism against the Japanese. Racism was the norm, world wide, not just in the US. It is still the norm in most of the world.

Looking back, we fought a war of desperation against the Japanese for much of 1942. We came close to losing Guadalcanal more than once and it wasn't until after Midway that we started to pull ahead. The Japanese matched us at sea and their fighters were as fast or faster than ours, longer ranged, and more maneuverable. An American flying an F4F or P-40 against Zeros had to be good and he had to fly smart. He had to know the strengths and weaknesses of each aircraft and if he couldn't fight the way he wanted, stay out of the fight. Thats how serious that **** was

To perfectly blunt - We grew tired of the killing as 1945 rolled around, but more than that, we were tired of dying. We wanted the Japanese defeated with the least loss of American lives. If they would surrender, that was acceptable. But if it meant annihilation, that was ok too.

 

[Grant]

Ric27 -

We certainly had an outrage against the Japanese that didn't exist against the Germans or Italians for the most part. German immigrants had been part of America since before the Revolution. Germans as well as Italians looked like "us".

Languages of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mikhail]

Im not shocked by this.There are plenty of muslims in the UK at least that have way more extreme opinions then people would like to admit.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Yes. And the tragedy is that such deranged attitudes are cultural.


NEW YORK VICTORY MOSQUE IMAM REFUSES TO CALL TERRORISTS TERRORISTS: 'Ground Zero' imam makes stunning terror comments


ANOTHER ONE:


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.









Culture?! Stuff like this, too, qualifies in the sick Muslim world:




Islam Watch - "Pedophilia in Islam: Allowed by Allah; Practised & Patronized by Prophet Muhammad" by Ayesha Ahmed

Ayesha the child wife of the Prophet

http://schnellmann.org/A_Complete_Guide_to_Pedophile_in_Islam.pdf

Islam Causes EU To Legalise Paedophilia - Anglo-Saxon Foundation




"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister."

The complete Persian text of this saying can be found in "Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom, 1990"







Muslim Paedophile Nigerian Senator Marries 13 Year Old Girl

TheOPINIONATOR: Busy Month for UK Muslim Rapists, Paedophiles & Pimps

Dhimmi Brits decide PAKISTANI MUSLIM PAEDOPHILE can’t be deported because it violates HIS human rights « Bare Naked Islam's Weblog

PEADOPHILE EPIDEMIC IN MUSLIM PAKISTAN…..And BRITAIN | Centurean2′s Weblog

muslim paedophile gang in court

Islamization Watch: Yemeni child bride dies of bleeding after intercourse



YES! LIBERALS, LEFTIES AND EXTREMIST MUSLIMS UNITE IN PRIDE AT THE SEXUAL REVOLUTION!

Tatchell’s underage sex comments lambasted | News | The Christian Institute

 

[Alvin T. Grey]

Im not shocked by this.There are plenty of muslims in the UK at least that have way more extreme opinions then people would like to admit.

No law against opinions.

 

[Apocalypse]

No law against opinions.

Cough Wilders cough.

 

[Alvin T. Grey]

Cough that was for vocing them cough.
Not for having them.

 

[PeteEU]

Cough that was for vocing them cough.
Not for having them.

Actually that aint exactly true. Wilders can have those opinions and even voice those opinions all he wants. Problem was in the manner he did it.

 

[Djoop]

Cough that was for vocing them cough.
Not for having them.

They're demanding 1 euro damages for 3 comments he made, there's not a lawyer in NL who thinks they'll succeed. The corrupt judges who forced the counsel to prosecute wilders (they didn't want to, because they don't believe there's a case) only secured more votes for Wilders. The precedent will strenghten free speech in NL though, it's not all bad.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

And let's not forget the Belgian judges who shut down the Vlaams Blok. There's a nasty strain of mind control running through Europe and it's suspiciously leaving the Islamists alone.



CLOSED - for being 'far wight' and 'wacist': http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3994867.stm

Recent opinion polls suggest the Vlaams Blok is the most popular party in the Dutch-speaking region of Flanders.

Who cares what the People say, eh?

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Wilders can have those opinions and even voice those opinions all he wants. Problem was in the manner he did it.

...With the microphone on and in a loud, clear voice in public!

I'm well aware of this Soviet-style doublespeak by now, through 12 years of New Labour!

 

[Fruzer]