Al Qaeda, Kurdish Militia Clash on Syrian Border with Turkey.....

[MMC]

Seven al Qaeda-affiliated rebels were killed in a battle with a Syrian Kurdish militia on Wednesday, as violence between Syria's Arabs and Kurds increased, opposition activists said.

Since the start of the revolt, President Bashar al-Assad's forces have pulled out of Kurdish regions, including Ifrin, where Atma is located, handing de facto control to the PKK

Opposition activist Mohammad Abdallah said officers from Assad's army visited PKK leaders in Jandaris in the last week to discuss military cooperation, prompting the rebels to launch a pre-emptive strike.

"There is a feeling that the Kurds were fortifying Jandaris as part of a plan to carve a Kurdish zone in Ifrin with the help of the regime," Abdallah said. "Fighting has been heavy all day, and rebels have brought heavier guns to defend Atma and to target the PKK."

Seeking to mend ties with the Kurdish community, Syrian opposition leaders in exile attempted, at a meeting in Istanbul this month, to expand the Syrian National Coalition to include members of the Kurdish National Council, a grouping of the main Kurdish parties that does not include the PYD.

But the effort was put off as the coalition debated at length a joint declaration with the Kurdish Council that defines the Kurds as a separate people in a united Syria.....snip~

Al Qaeda, Kurdish militia clash on Syrian border with Turkey


It appears AQ and the PKK are going at each other.....as well as other Arabs of the Rebels/Terrorists going after civilian Kurds. Note how the Opposition had a feeling that Assad would let the PKK build up in Jandaris. Despite Assad pulling out of the Kurds part of Syria since the beginning of the Revolt. Quite the deflection by the Rebels/Terrorists.....while now going all around that fact of themselves being the ones that have been attacking the Kurds.

So again more of those True Colors being shown from the Opposition. Now even worried the Kurds would carve out a Niche for themselves. We have heard the assessment. No one says the Rebels/Terrorists can win against Assad without help. They were given help and the assessment is they still cannot win. Which these guys had to hear the Brits, French, and the US all saying the same thing. Do you think they have figured out yet.....no one trusts them nor anything they say out of their mouths.

Maybe focus should be put on the Rebel/Terrorists to give up and walk away. Otherwise they will just continue to escalate the civilian death toll. Which they are just as responsible as Assad is. One thing is clear.....both Christians and Kurds are still standing in their way and will not accept their rule either. Which doesn't count All those that are in AQ, Al Nusra, and now most of the military wing of the SNC that refuse to acknowledge the SNC or any other outsiders.

 

[ecofarm]

When will the civilized world put an end to this?

 

[gunner]

When will the civilized world put an end to this?

Let the 'Arab League' form up, and take the lead...O wait, that'll never happen because?

Paul

 

[ecofarm]

Let the 'Arab League' form up, and take the lead...O wait, that'll never happen because?

Because they're also scumbag dictators. I noted 'the civilized world'.

 

[polisciguy]

Seven al Qaeda-affiliated rebels were killed in a battle with a Syrian Kurdish militia on Wednesday, as violence between Syria's Arabs and Kurds increased, opposition activists said.

Since the start of the revolt, President Bashar al-Assad's forces have pulled out of Kurdish regions, including Ifrin, where Atma is located, handing de facto control to the PKK

Opposition activist Mohammad Abdallah said officers from Assad's army visited PKK leaders in Jandaris in the last week to discuss military cooperation, prompting the rebels to launch a pre-emptive strike.

"There is a feeling that the Kurds were fortifying Jandaris as part of a plan to carve a Kurdish zone in Ifrin with the help of the regime," Abdallah said. "Fighting has been heavy all day, and rebels have brought heavier guns to defend Atma and to target the PKK."

Seeking to mend ties with the Kurdish community, Syrian opposition leaders in exile attempted, at a meeting in Istanbul this month, to expand the Syrian National Coalition to include members of the Kurdish National Council, a grouping of the main Kurdish parties that does not include the PYD.

But the effort was put off as the coalition debated at length a joint declaration with the Kurdish Council that defines the Kurds as a separate people in a united Syria.....snip~

Al Qaeda, Kurdish militia clash on Syrian border with Turkey


It appears AQ and the PKK are going at each other.....as well as other Arabs of the Rebels/Terrorists going after civilian Kurds. Note how the Opposition had a feeling that Assad would let the PKK build up in Jandaris. Despite Assad pulling out of the Kurds part of Syria since the beginning of the Revolt. Quite the deflection by the Rebels/Terrorists.....while now going all around that fact of themselves being the ones that have been attacking the Kurds.

So again more of those True Colors being shown from the Opposition. Now even worried the Kurds would carve out a Niche for themselves. We have heard the assessment. No one says the Rebels/Terrorists can win against Assad without help. They were given help and the assessment is they still cannot win. Which these guys had to hear the Brits, French, and the US all saying the same thing. Do you think they have figured out yet.....no one trusts them nor anything they say out of their mouths.

Maybe focus should be put on the Rebel/Terrorists to give up and walk away. Otherwise they will just continue to escalate the civilian death toll. Which they are just as responsible as Assad is. One thing is clear.....both Christians and Kurds are still standing in their way and will not accept their rule either. Which doesn't count All those that are in AQ, Al Nusra, and now most of the military wing of the SNC that refuse to acknowledge the SNC or any other outsiders.

I think this is an indicator of just how complex the makeup of the rebellion is. I think it unlikely the Assad regime, even with the help of Iran and Russia, will ever get the territory beyond the southwest region again. The Kurdish support from northern Iraq will likely, as it sits, result in some form of Kurdish state or quasi-Kurdish state in the northern part of Syria, a more radical Sunni state in the central region, and an Assad controlled area in the southwest. This, of course, assuming the U.S. and allies continue to arm the rebels and Iran and Russia effectively protect Assad.

It's a definite possibility that this ends with the breakup of Syria into three states.

 

[MMC]

I think this is an indicator of just how complex the makeup of the rebellion is. I think it unlikely the Assad regime, even with the help of Iran and Russia, will ever get the territory beyond the southwest region again. The Kurdish support from northern Iraq will likely, as it sits, result in some form of Kurdish state or quasi-Kurdish state in the northern part of Syria, a more radical Sunni state in the central region, and an Assad controlled area in the southwest. This, of course, assuming the U.S. and allies continue to arm the rebels and Iran and Russia effectively protect Assad.

It's a definite possibility that this ends with the breakup of Syria into three states.

Mornin' Polisciguy.:2wave: I think the Country will Split up into 3 regions as well. I also have a thread up on this very fact that IS taking place inside Syria. Still it shows these Rebels/Terrorists are as responsible as Assad. Even moreso with the Kurds. Since Assad left them to their own means at the beginning of the revolt. It was AQ and the Rebels that chased out 30k Kurds into Iraq. Not Assad. Plus it was Al Nusra that was shelling one of their towns too.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...ar-splits-nation-into-3-distinct-regions.html

 

[MMC]

Let the 'Arab League' form up, and take the lead...O wait, that'll never happen because?

Paul

Mornin' Gunner :2wave: Well they are Mostly Sunni and follow that doctrine. So the only time they form up is when they want to Rebel and be handed over Countries to run.

 

[Sherman123]

I think this is an indicator of just how complex the makeup of the rebellion is. I think it unlikely the Assad regime, even with the help of Iran and Russia, will ever get the territory beyond the southwest region again. The Kurdish support from northern Iraq will likely, as it sits, result in some form of Kurdish state or quasi-Kurdish state in the northern part of Syria, a more radical Sunni state in the central region, and an Assad controlled area in the southwest. This, of course, assuming the U.S. and allies continue to arm the rebels and Iran and Russia effectively protect Assad.

It's a definite possibility that this ends with the breakup of Syria into three states.

The problem is that there is virtually no relationship between Erbil and the PYD. The close relationship that the PYD has with the PKK (though I'm not sure it is quite as close as some like to suggest suffice to say it is too close) has caused immense problems. Not only is the PKK inimical to the interests of Barzani's KDP but they have made attempts to inject themselves into the Iraqi Kurdish political space even as fighters withdraw from Turkey to the Iraqi Qandil Mountains.

So while Barzani and Ankara have attempted to bring more Iraqi Kurdish influence to bear in Syrian Kurdistan the opposition from the PKK and PYD has stymied it. A contingent of 400-600 fighters were stopped and expelled across the border back into the KRG last year after Barzani dispatched them in an effort to prop up the Kurdish National Council (KNC) which is an umbrella of the other Kurdish political parties and factions. In the past few months Barzani has made some bellicose comments on Syria and has opened the border area (something I think the article got wrong) but I'm unsure if this will lead to a true rapprochement or if that is even in the KRG's interest. }

Efforts to foment more regional Kurdish unity have intensified. Kurdish activists have been increasingly coming to the conclusion that "this is our chance". The defacto independence of the KRG, the defacto Kurdish autonomy in Syria, the alleged peace progress in Turkey, and the potential to redirect fighters to PJAK all seem to be harbingers of a future Kurdish state coming into being soon. But its a much more fractious process than they like to admit and the Congress they held in Erbil a few months ago while historic is only a baby step.

 

[Sherman123]

Also if this becomes a fight between Islamists and the PYD and it becomes severe enough to draw in the PKK or overt support from Erbil then the Islamists will lose handily.

 

[MMC]

Also if this becomes a fight between Islamists and the PYD and it becomes severe enough to draw in the PKK or overt support from Erbil then the Islamists will lose handily.

Heya Sherman. :2wave: Which Islamists would those be? Just for the record.

 

[MMC]

The problem is that there is virtually no relationship between Erbil and the PYD. The close relationship that the PYD has with the PKK (though I'm not sure it is quite as close as some like to suggest suffice to say it is too close) has caused immense problems. Not only is the PKK inimical to the interests of Barzani's KDP but they have made attempts to inject themselves into the Iraqi Kurdish political space even as fighters withdraw from Turkey to the Iraqi Qandil Mountains.

So while Barzani and Ankara have attempted to bring more Iraqi Kurdish influence to bear in Syrian Kurdistan the opposition from the PKK and PYD has stymied it. A contingent of 400-600 fighters were stopped and expelled across the border back into the KRG last year after Barzani dispatched them in an effort to prop up the Kurdish National Council (KNC) which is an umbrella of the other Kurdish political parties and factions. In the past few months Barzani has made some bellicose comments on Syria and has opened the border area (something I think the article got wrong) but I'm unsure if this will lead to a true rapprochement or if that is even in the KRG's interest. }

Efforts to foment more regional Kurdish unity have intensified. Kurdish activists have been increasingly coming to the conclusion that "this is our chance". The defacto independence of the KRG, the defacto Kurdish autonomy in Syria, the alleged peace progress in Turkey, and the potential to redirect fighters to PJAK all seem to be harbingers of a future Kurdish state coming into being soon. But its a much more fractious process than they like to admit and the Congress they held in Erbil a few months ago while historic is only a baby step.

Heya Sherman.....here is what the Kurds have up inside Syria listed Opposition Forces. From Basic Wiki.


The Kurdish Supreme Committee is a governing body of Kurdish-held regions in Syria founded by the Kurdish Democratic Union Party and Kurdish National Council following cooperation agreement between the two sides, signed on 12 July, in Erbil under auspice of the Iraqi Kurdistan president Massoud Barzani. Its member board consist of equal number of PYD and KNC members.

Kurdish Democratic Union Party: Kurdish Syrian political party established in 2003 by Arab and Kurdish nationalists in northern Syria. The party is linked with the Kurdistan Workers' Party, which is listed as a terrorist organisation by Turkey, the United States, the European Union and NATO. The PYD does admit that the two parties have a close relationship, with the PKK not interfering with PYD management of Syrian Kurdish affairs. It is currently not officially registered as a political party in Syria because the Constitution of Syria before 2012 did not allow political parties to be formed without permission.

Kurdish National Council: The Kurdish National Council was founded in Erbil, Iraq on 26 October 2011, under the sponsorship of President Massoud Barzani, following the earlier creation of the SNC. The organisation was originally composed of 11 Syrian Kurdish parties, however by May 2012 this had grown to 15. The key difference between the KNC and the SNC is over their approach to the issue of decentralization, with the KNC pressing for Kurdish autonomy, whereas the SNC has rejected anything more than administrative decentralization. Kurdistan Democratic Party of Syria led by Dr. Abdel Hakim Bashar/ Nasreddin Ibrahim

Kurdish Democratic National Party in Syria led by Tahir Sfook
Kurdish Democratic Equality Party in Syria led by Aziz Dawe
Kurdish Democratic Progressive Party in Syria led by Hamid Darwish
Kurdish Democratic Unity Party in Syria led by Sheikh Ali

Kurdish Yekiti Party in Syria led by Ismail Hamo
Azadi Kurdish Party in Syria led by Mustafa Oso/ Mustafa Jumaa
Syrian Democratic Kurdish Party led by Sheikh Jamal
Kurdish Left Party in Syria led by Muhammad Musa
Yekiti Kurdistani led by Abdul Basit Hamo
Kurdish Democratic Party in Syria led by Abdul Rahman Aluji/ Yusuf Faisal
Kurdish Democratic Wifaq Party led by Nash’at Muhammad

Popular Protection Units: Paramilitary fighting against the Syrian government in Syrian Kurdistan. The group was founded by the Kurdish Democratic Union Party and Kurdish National Council and is responsible for maintaining order and protecting the lives of residents in Kurdish neighbourhoods.....snip~

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/171776-honor-syrian-rebels-w-90-a.html

Course the link also shows All those making up the Rebels/Terrorists.

 

[Sherman123]

Heya Sherman. :2wave: Which Islamists would those be? Just for the record.

I'm not sure what group it might be. In that part of the country it can depend very much from town to town.

 

[Sherman123]

Heya Sherman.....here is what the Kurds have up inside Syria listed Opposition Forces. From Basic Wiki.


The Kurdish Supreme Committee is a governing body of Kurdish-held regions in Syria founded by the Kurdish Democratic Union Party and Kurdish National Council following cooperation agreement between the two sides, signed on 12 July, in Erbil under auspice of the Iraqi Kurdistan president Massoud Barzani. Its member board consist of equal number of PYD and KNC members.

Kurdish Democratic Union Party: Kurdish Syrian political party established in 2003 by Arab and Kurdish nationalists in northern Syria. The party is linked with the Kurdistan Workers' Party, which is listed as a terrorist organisation by Turkey, the United States, the European Union and NATO. The PYD does admit that the two parties have a close relationship, with the PKK not interfering with PYD management of Syrian Kurdish affairs. It is currently not officially registered as a political party in Syria because the Constitution of Syria before 2012 did not allow political parties to be formed without permission.

Kurdish National Council: The Kurdish National Council was founded in Erbil, Iraq on 26 October 2011, under the sponsorship of President Massoud Barzani, following the earlier creation of the SNC. The organisation was originally composed of 11 Syrian Kurdish parties, however by May 2012 this had grown to 15. The key difference between the KNC and the SNC is over their approach to the issue of decentralization, with the KNC pressing for Kurdish autonomy, whereas the SNC has rejected anything more than administrative decentralization. Kurdistan Democratic Party of Syria led by Dr. Abdel Hakim Bashar/ Nasreddin Ibrahim

Kurdish Democratic National Party in Syria led by Tahir Sfook
Kurdish Democratic Equality Party in Syria led by Aziz Dawe
Kurdish Democratic Progressive Party in Syria led by Hamid Darwish
Kurdish Democratic Unity Party in Syria led by Sheikh Ali

Kurdish Yekiti Party in Syria led by Ismail Hamo
Azadi Kurdish Party in Syria led by Mustafa Oso/ Mustafa Jumaa
Syrian Democratic Kurdish Party led by Sheikh Jamal
Kurdish Left Party in Syria led by Muhammad Musa
Yekiti Kurdistani led by Abdul Basit Hamo
Kurdish Democratic Party in Syria led by Abdul Rahman Aluji/ Yusuf Faisal
Kurdish Democratic Wifaq Party led by Nash’at Muhammad

Popular Protection Units: Paramilitary fighting against the Syrian government in Syrian Kurdistan. The group was founded by the Kurdish Democratic Union Party and Kurdish National Council and is responsible for maintaining order and protecting the lives of residents in Kurdish neighbourhoods.....snip~

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/171776-honor-syrian-rebels-w-90-a.html

Course the link also shows All those making up the Rebels/Terrorists.

Virtually none of the groups have any armed wings. The popular protection brigades are almost exclusively under the control of the PYD though it remains to be seen how much of their recruits are ardent supporters as opposed to crisis levies. The KNC has authority because it has the support of Turkey and the KRG (as well as blocs of support in Syrian Kurdistan) but at present it has no ability to enforce decisions or enact political control within the country.

Edit: I actually spoke with the head of the Kurdish National Assembly earlier this year and this is probably the essential problem for them.

 

[MMC]

I'm not sure what group it might be. In that part of the country it can depend very much from town to town.

"Oh okay".....I thought ya might have known a specific set. As I remembered you stated you had been familiar with the Kurds.

 

[Sherman123]

"Oh okay".....I thought ya might have known a specific set. As I remembered you stated you had been familiar with the Kurds.

Well the Kurdish groups are easy to identify since realistically there is only one: the PYD. But 'Islamist' could mean any number of groups or local militias.

 

[MMC]

Virtually none of the groups have any armed wings. The popular protection brigades are almost exclusively under the control of the PYD though it remains to be seen how much of their recruits are ardent supporters as opposed to crisis levies. The KNC has authority because it has the support of Turkey and the KRG (as well as blocs of support in Syrian Kurdistan) but at present it has no ability to enforce decisions or enact political control within the country.

Edit: I actually spoke with the head of the Kurdish National Assembly earlier this year and this is probably the essential problem for them.

Did you happen to see this? We have it up in Honor of the Syrian Rebels with some of the acts they have committed. The KRG area? Is that the Refugee area and isn't it in Iraq?

Thousands of Syrians flee to Iraq; crisis feared

Tens of thousands of Syrian Kurds swarmed across a bridge into neighboring Iraq's northern self-ruled Kurdish region over the past few days in one of the biggest waves of refugees since the rebellion against President Bashar Assad began, U.N. officials said Monday.

The U.N. said the reason for this flow, which began five days ago and continued unabated Monday, is unclear. But Kurdish areas in northeastern Syria have been engulfed by fighting in recent months between Kurdish militias and Islamic extremist rebel factions with links to al-Qaida. Dozens have been killed.

Following the assassination of a prominent Kurdish leader late last month, a powerful Kurdish militia said it was mobilizing to expel Islamic extremists.

On Monday, activists said fighters from al-Qaida-linked jihadi groups shelled areas in the predominantly Kurdish town of Ras al-Ayn with mortars and artillery, coinciding with clashes in the area between Kurdish gunmen and jihadi fighters.....snip~

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/171776-honor-syrian-rebels-w-90-a.html

 

[Sherman123]

Did you happen to see this? We have it up in Honor of the Syrian Rebels with some of the acts they have committed. The KRG area? Is that the Refugee area and isn't it in Iraq?

Thousands of Syrians flee to Iraq; crisis feared

Tens of thousands of Syrian Kurds swarmed across a bridge into neighboring Iraq's northern self-ruled Kurdish region over the past few days in one of the biggest waves of refugees since the rebellion against President Bashar Assad began, U.N. officials said Monday.

The U.N. said the reason for this flow, which began five days ago and continued unabated Monday, is unclear. But Kurdish areas in northeastern Syria have been engulfed by fighting in recent months between Kurdish militias and Islamic extremist rebel factions with links to al-Qaida. Dozens have been killed.

Following the assassination of a prominent Kurdish leader late last month, a powerful Kurdish militia said it was mobilizing to expel Islamic extremists.

On Monday, activists said fighters from al-Qaida-linked jihadi groups shelled areas in the predominantly Kurdish town of Ras al-Ayn with mortars and artillery, coinciding with clashes in the area between Kurdish gunmen and jihadi fighters.....snip~

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/171776-honor-syrian-rebels-w-90-a.html

The KRG is the defacto independent Kurdish region of Iraq that retains its own laws (aside from some reserved areas), customs control, military, police, and political structure.

As for the refugees Barzani opened the border to facilitate the transfer of supplies to Syrian Kurdistan in an effort to reduce the perception that he was putting a personal grudge match with the PYD/PKK above Kurdish interests (he had previously kept the border sealed). The refugees have always been allowed in and they are being treated better than perhaps any refugee has ever been treated in the Middle East. There are sufficient (perhaps not ample) supplies, work permits have been lavishly issued, and they are being treated as fellow Kurds instead of aliens.

 

[MadLib]

Let the 'Arab League' form up, and take the lead...O wait, that'll never happen because?

Paul

Yeah, because when we want our global interests achieved in the Middle East, we should always rely on the corporate theocracies of Saudi Arabia and Qatar!

 

[reinoe]

When will the civilized world put an end to this?

Are you referring to just repeatedly nuking the Mid-east until nothing is left? Because it would definitely improve the cultural makeup.