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Al Qaeda has better PR

simonsiegel

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What do you guys think about Rumsfeld's speech he gave today? Do you really think our problem is our lack of digital modernization?

Rumsfeld said:
Quote:
"Our enemies have skillfully adapted to fighting wars in today's media age, but ... our country has not adapted,"
Rummy also talked about how we (U.S. government) is to slow in responding to US meida. He cited the Newsweek report about interroagtors mistreating prisoners in Guantanoma Bay.

Thoughts on this?

Is Rummy making a mistake here?
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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simonsiegel said:
What do you guys think about Rumsfeld's speech he gave today? Do you really think our problem is our lack of digital modernization?

Rumsfeld said:
Quote:


Rummy also talked about how we (U.S. government) is to slow in responding to US meida. He cited the Newsweek report about interroagtors mistreating prisoners in Guantanoma Bay.

Thoughts on this?

Is Rummy making a mistake here?
I think he's right after all this is a war imagine if the media pulled the sh!t they do now during WW2.
 

cnredd

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I think he's half right...

Western Society will read what the US puts out and be skeptical, and in some cases, be outright critical beased solely on political affiliations rather than the content of the information...Everything they writ could be 100% true, but will still be met with resistance...

No matter what's written, what are the chances the western civilization will believe it?...Not good...Western civilizations are taught from an early age to question everything...especially authority...

But in the Middle Easter civilization, we have a situation where EVEYTHING is controlled by the government...They tell you what to think and no one can think otherwise...They wouldn't anyway, because they were brought up at an early age to NOT question anything...especially authority...

So it's not just a matter of doing a better job...In a free society, the results of pushing forth any issue is much harder to begin with...
 

Bergslagstroll

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The problem for your american is that in the "war against terror" you can't have a media that keep the american opinion "happy" by censuring bad information. Because some not so smart GI Joe will post some "cool" picture on a homepage. And then the entire world will know about and be pissed expect the americans that's doesn't maybee even know that the world is pissed at them. That is not a good start for a country with the challenge to get good international PR. Also it's not good to bomb or plan to bomb muslim tv station ecpecially if they are considered the most objective by many in it's audience. Because that will get out and people will be more pissed of and mistruted towards the USA. Also is not good that it leak out that the military try to influence the media in for example Iraq.

On the other hand Al Qaeda has a better position like for example was it very easy to spin the Iraq war as a crusade against america amongst many muslims. Also they are a "free voice" in many brutale muslim countries that are allied with the USA. It is also easy for them to spin USA as hypocrite because of they talk about freedom at the same time as you have Guantanoma Bay and all the other scandals. Guantanoma Bay is also a good example because my impression is that many americans don't care much about it, but at the same time the camp work very well as an example then Al Qaeda try to gain support.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Bergslagstroll said:
The problem for your american is that in the "war against terror" you can't have a media that keep the american opinion "happy" by censuring bad information. Because some not so smart GI Joe will post some "cool" picture on a homepage. And then the entire world will know about and be pissed expect the americans that's doesn't maybee even know that the world is pissed at them. That is not a good start for a country with the challenge to get good international PR. Also it's not good to bomb or plan to bomb muslim tv station ecpecially if they are considered the most objective by many in it's audience. Because that will get out and people will be more pissed of and mistruted towards the USA. Also is not good that it leak out that the military try to influence the media in for example Iraq.

On the other hand Al Qaeda has a better position like for example was it very easy to spin the Iraq war as a crusade against america amongst many muslims. Also they are a "free voice" in many brutale muslim countries that are allied with the USA. It is also easy for them to spin USA as hypocrite because of they talk about freedom at the same time as you have Guantanoma Bay and all the other scandals. Guantanoma Bay is also a good example because my impression is that many americans don't care much about it, but at the same time the camp work very well as an example then Al Qaeda try to gain support.
Your post reads like one long line of anti-US propaganda bullshit. Al-Jazeera objective? lmfao gimme a break, and do you have any proof that the U.S. planned on bombing them in the first place or are you just making stuff up? Guantanamo Bay is a good example of how terrorists are getting far better treatment by the Americans then their country of origins and also a good example of how outrageous lies like the Koran story put out by the American press are being used to fuel anti-U.S. sentiments world wide.
 

Bergslagstroll

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Your post reads like one long line of anti-US propaganda bullshit. Al-Jazeera objective? lmfao gimme a break, and do you have any proof that the U.S. planned on bombing them in the first place or are you just making stuff up? Guantanamo Bay is a good example of how terrorists are getting far better treatment by the Americans then their country of origins and also a good example of how outrageous lies like the Koran story put out by the American press are being used to fuel anti-U.S. sentiments world wide.
That is fact is that USA has bomb Al Jazeera in Iraq. Of course that could have been an a accident. But as you know USA havn't the best of trust in the ME, therefore even if it was an accident peoples mistrust will increase.

Then it's even more bad that things like this gets out: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4459296.stm Because even if it's totally untrue or Bush made a stupid joke, there are a change that some people ecpecieally in ME will belive it. I also didn't say that Al-Jazeera was objective but have pretty big freedom for a muslim tv station. Atleast about things outside Qatar and that it's that people in ME are intresing in.

Also I think that people in ME or even Europe have a diffrent idea that's objective then you and many american have. Of course you can think that we are stupid but it doesn't help you PR ecpecially in the ME, if you just brand us as stupid. Like for example you can think BBC is bad, but it's a station have big respect internationaly.

Also you can think it's stupid that people get upset over guantanamo. But it's probably mostly right wing american that see all or most of this as faulty news:

http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?q=Guantanamo&x=37&y=11&scope=newsifs&tab=news

So you post I think illustrate the need for you americans to understand the world better and that criticism America isn't necessary anti-american. Also USA may have to more consider there actions or they will get more bad PR.
 

Simon W. Moon

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Better PR is definitely required, but it's not enough. It must also be accompanied by actual, substantive actions. Even new improved bullshit only spreads so thin.

This is a long-term issue that won't be settled quickly. Terrorism is not a military tactic, it is a political one. Cultural, educational and political changes must occur in multiple countries. Not all of the countries that will have to change are in the ME. If we're going to maintain our credibility as a world actor we must walk the talk. So not only should we choose our words carefully, we must choose words we back up.

Otherwise the even the best PR in the world is turd polishing.

Though it's an intangible that's very hard to quantify credibility in the sense of trustworthiness is an incredibly valuable and powerful thing when it comes to effecting real changes in the world. It's even the foundation of the world economy. The U$D is backed by the full faith and credit of the US. Confidence that the US will pay its debts is what keeping the USG afloat.
Legitimacy is another important intangible that has powerful real world effects. It's the biggest issue for the Iraqi govt. Sufficient legitmacy is the only thing that will end the 'insurgency' in Iraq and in Afghanistan. The question is, of course, how is this acquired. Legitimacy can't be bought or taken for one's own use.
The US's credibility problems (not the financial kind) have a direct impact on the perceived legtimacy of the Iraqi govt. Improving one's credibility is more than merely finding nicer words to use and is a life and death issue much more important than just "getting people like us."
 

Simon W. Moon

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Guantanamo Bay is a good example of how terrorists are getting far better treatment by the Americans then their country of origins...
Pretty low bar to clear. Certainly America is capable of standards much higher than merely not as bad as Yemen or Egypt. As holder of the title of Leader of the Free World we should hold ourselves to world class standards not small-pond ones.
 

cnredd

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Simon W. Moon said:
Pretty low bar to clear. Certainly America is capable of standards much higher than merely not as bad as Yemen or Egypt. As holder of the title of Leader of the Free World we should hold ourselves to world class standards not small-pond ones.
That's usually the problem overall...

On a scale of 1-10...A country with a perceived "2" and comes out looking like a "3" gets accolades...

Whereas we MUST be a "10" at all times..."9.9" is met with cries and whining by the global community...:roll:
 

Simon W. Moon

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cnredd said:
That's usually the problem overall...

On a scale of 1-10...A country with a perceived "2" and comes out looking like a "3" gets accolades...

Whereas we MUST be a "10" at all times..."9.9" is met with cries and whining by the global community...:roll:
That's just what it means to be the best. You're held to a higher standard. It's just how it is and how it should be.

One can get used to it. I know I did. ;)
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Simon W. Moon said:
Pretty low bar to clear. Certainly America is capable of standards much higher than merely not as bad as Yemen or Egypt. As holder of the title of Leader of the Free World we should hold ourselves to world class standards not small-pond ones.
Dude the ACLU won't be happy until every terrorist gets a lawyer, they have no concept that we are at war.
 

Simon W. Moon

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Dude the ACLU won't be happy until every terrorist gets a lawyer, they have no concept that we are at war.
I guess it all depends on how great you think America is and can be. I think America is capable of higher, practical standards more in line with American ideals and you, apparently, do not. Perhaps "not as bad as Uzbekistan or Syria" is good enough for you. But for me, America is great and can do much better than "not as bad as" and "good enough".
YMMV
 
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