- Joined
- May 19, 2009
- Messages
- 28,721
- Reaction score
- 6,738
- Location
- Redneck Riviera
- Gender
- Female
- Political Leaning
- Moderate
ight. ButI want every single Muslim woman (anyone) wearing facial covering to be forced to remove that facial covering so that facial recognition software has a chance. I want every single person who's wearing flowing robes to be body scanned or patted down. If these people think we are infringing on their religious freedom, they can walk.
Do they? To what extent and with what purpose? They don't seem to rely on that training however, since there are invasive pat downs, scanners, and metal wands and metal detectors. Contrast what we do with El Al in Israel, and maybe the answer is somewhere in between. On a side note, I live in the NE - the TSA agents I encounter at Phil. International, Newark International and Laguardia, I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw them for the most part. Just my perception? Maybe ... but the TSA folks I see don't seem competent to dress themselves in the morning for the most part.You realize TSA already DOES train individuals to do this type of thing?
Newark, Philly and Laguardia are big airports - my previous comments stand. I constantly hear the complaint about how large the U.S. is and how small Israel is, but no reasoning why El Al's methods are not scalable, yet see no sound facts or evidence to show your claim of my ignorance has any validity. Why isn't it scalable again?They're not hugely wide spread and tend to be at the big airports because its expensive training to get someone actually skilled at it. The people routinely and rather ignorantly comparing things to Israel need to realize we're gigantic compared to them.
So too costly, too complicated logistically, too much training... that's it? And when compared to the training that TSA agents (you claim) already get, and the cost of these scanners from R&D to implementation and the training agents need to run those machines, coupled with the added no-fly list, random flagging of people to go through bag searches, invasive pat downs, etc... how is the questionable effectiveness of what we're doing now any more logistically a nightmare or less costly than a PROVEN methods provided by El Al?We have 303,289,200 more people in our country. That's almost 42 times more than Israel. We have 14,000 registered airports in our country as compared to 31. That's more than 400 airports for every one they have. We have almost as many Category X airports, the largest designation, as they have airports in general. In three weeks of time half the population of Israel will have passed through Chicago O'Hare International Airport alone.
The feasability, both in logistics and in cost, to roll out an Israel type of airport security would be mind boggling. The training involved, the higher pay for every employee that would be required, the higher quality employee that it would need, in and of itself presents huge issues in those two realms.
I think it would be easier and better to profile foreigners or naturalized citizens. It's seems many terrorists are from Somalia or Yemen.
Exactly how are we going to let the TSA know that someone is a naturalized versus homegrown citizen? It's not like that fact is included on ANY documentation that travelers use. So, are we going to set up a new database that identifies naturalized citizens from certain countries?
So too costly, too complicated logistically, too much training... that's it?
Exactly how are we going to let the TSA know that someone is a naturalized versus homegrown citizen? It's not like that fact is included on ANY documentation that travelers use. So, are we going to set up a new database that identifies naturalized citizens from certain countries?
I would say it's easier to profile someone if we force them to show their ID and can look them up. With my job we profile people all the time when it comes to selling Sudafed, and we can look up all their past purchases with any store by using their ID. I would say it is easier to set up a national database of naturalized citizens versus profiling all Muslims.
Wouldn't the Social Security Administration already have that data? I know it's not on a passport or drivers license, but I would think that database already exists.
This is probably true. I believe, based upon what is currently happening when I buy airline tickets, that the government is putting a system into place to compare names on tickets with federal information. I'm okay with checking those things, but here's another twist. Will people want their SS numbers checked before they fly? Or is that another violation of privacy?
See, most profiling occurs in cases where a) the individual is suspected of committing a crime or b) the individual is connected with a group involved in committing crimes (organized crime/gangs). If you're talking about screening 100% of travelers based on personal information (to separate out naturalized from native-born, for instance), you're in essence profiling everyone, and 99.9% of those people aren't suspected of criminal activity. That's a problem based upon our laws.
I want every single Muslim woman (anyone) wearing facial covering to be forced to remove that facial covering so that facial recognition software has a chance. I want every single person who's wearing flowing robes to be body scanned or patted down. If these people think we are infringing on their religious freedom, they can walk.
what I do believe is that the TSA is power-hungry and has overstepped their boundaries.
Do they? To what extent and with what purpose?
They don't seem to rely on that training however, since there are invasive pat downs, scanners, and metal wands and metal detectors.
Contrast what we do with El Al in Israel, and maybe the answer is somewhere in between.
On a side note, I live in the NE - the TSA agents I encounter at Phil. International, Newark International and Laguardia, I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw them for the most part. Just my perception? Maybe ... but the TSA folks I see don't seem competent to dress themselves in the morning for the most part.
Newark, Philly and Laguardia are big airports - my previous comments stand. I constantly hear the complaint about how large the U.S. is and how small Israel is, but no reasoning why El Al's methods are not scalable, yet see no sound facts or evidence to show your claim of my ignorance has any validity. Why isn't it scalable again?
So too costly, too complicated logistically, too much training... that's it?
Answer -- it's not. The entire argument of "it's not scalable" is made out of ignorance.
Fact is, it's not been tried in the U.S. to scale so you don't know.
What we DO know is what we have now is a mishmash of costly and ineffective methods which trample on individual rights - whether that is justified or not doesn't justify ignoring El Al's significant successes around their methods.
Perhaps it's another tool in the tool box to use at every airport and doesn't displace everything else bolsters it. Yet, I've not seen a report from the government or anyone else from that matter that identifies it's too costly to implement, or too difficult to train, or that it's not scalable. Those are simply baseless talking points.
I see no evidence of this. I think that the TSA is responding to information from other federal agencies and trying to identify and stop threats before they turn into another 9/11 scenario. If TSA were really power-hungry, they would be going for the personal data, because it would create an additional layer of bureaucracy.
One step at a time. First off, groping and fondling. Next step, pissed off people. Third step, if we want the groping and fondling and naked pictures to stop; give us your biometric data. You're getting ahead of yourself.
And TSA is a government agency, as a part of the government of course it's power hungry and oversteps boundaries. That's what government does.
That's an assumption that has zero basis in facts, and is in fact, rooted in your paradigm. Please feel free to factually prove this claim.
Common sense is we should profile Muslims....They are the ones committing the terrorist attacks.........
In due time dear Catz. The government already tried things like the Real ID Act which would have subjected us all to RFID type technologies. The only reason that hasn't been started up yet was because some of the States got pissy (rightfully so). The TSA isn't just some benevolent force come down from heaven to watch over us. It's a government agency. Government expanded its power to create it, expanded its power when it demanded that is engage in such hostile, aggressive, and demeaning treatment of the People. It'll do it again in the future. This is the natural course of government. You don't throw the frog into a pot of boiling water. You put it in a pot of luke warm water and turn on the heat. Thus is the way it's done, be it the usurpation of drug laws, drinking ages, National IDs, expansion of unwarranted surveillance, etc.
The TSA is not here to save us, they cannot save us. They're here to expand government's power, put it's tentacles in new places so we can't help but brush up against them. You want TSA going after personal information? All in due time, because it will eventually go that route. Why? Because all government, particularly unchecked government, tends towards tyranny. You can choose not to believe me, but the whole of history shows the natural path government takes. It will continue to expand upon itself, it's not going to spontaneously shrink. And that you can take to the bank.
Why do you have so little respect for our Constitution? What good is fighting for the principles and values of America when people like you are so willing to spit on the foundations of our country?
You should stop using that frog in the boiling water metaphor. It's an urban legend...just like your entire post.
The TSA is not here to save us, they cannot save us. They're here to expand government's power, put it's tentacles in new places so we can't help but brush up against them.
When a kid goes missing in a neighborhood, questioning the single 43-year-old guy who entertains teen-aged boys in his home, entertains at kids parties, and coaches all the baseball games in the neighborhood is not spitting on our Constitution...especially if he paints clown pictures.
Gee, silly me. And here I thought the TSA was tasked primarily with making us safer when we travel, not expanding the power of the federal government. I had no idea that was really their primary goal. Thank you so much for shedding some light onto the situation.
BTW... I think you'd be more comfortable in the Conspiracy Theory section... just saying :ninja:
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?