Air America - Charitygate

[gordontravels]

Re: Air America “Charitygate”

QUOTES from Stinger are in Black - What evidence are you lacking? At the least it is a gross conflict of interest. AA has done it's 180 and says it will "eventually" pay the money back. Why was money loaned in the first place, that was federal money given in a grant to help little children why is it being funneled to a privately owned politically bias'd company? If AA is such a successful venture then it should have no problem luring private money, but no they had to go the back channel route and get it's hands on taxpayer money.

There is an ongoing investigation by New York State. During an investigation there won't be any payments made until the investigators report on where those payments need to go. They won't go to an organization that no longer exists through no fault of Air America but the state investigators will probably assign the payments to go back to the state.

There was a sales pitch made by an individual and the organization agree to invest. The organization is allowed to invest to enhance capital. The organization themselves are the primary focus of the investigation for many different reasons. Air America is part of that for this loan only. What has Air America done that is illegal? Do you think you can answer that or would you want to wait until the investigation tells you information you need to answer that?

This has nothing to do with any salesman you have ever seen or any trival stories you try to post.


I'm sorry but I don't understand the "trival (trivial?) stories you try to post" comment. I do know from working in radio and television that the on air staff knows about what sales have been made but never sit in on sales meetings or know the salesmen's business at the point of sale. That was the reference to Al Franken not knowing how a sale was made or what the agreement was. He wouldn't have the interest since his job is to produce and do a show.

At the least taxpayer money, typical of leftist.

Again I don't understand this. This loan was taxpayer money yes but it had been granted to the organization and they made the choice of what to do with it. They are under investigation for that and many other things but I don't see Air America culpable for what was probably a legal loan, at least on their part. Still, the investigation will show that and anyone found illegal should hang with others found illegal. You agree don't you?


I would do so it is clear the loan was made, it was made under ethical questions at the least possible criminal we'll have to wait and see. But even if there is no criminal it is still outrageous that they have gone to such a non-profit organization and taken federal money meant for kids and at first refused to repay it and now are saying it may be several years. What happens if, as it is seeming more and more everyday, they go under? What happens to the money meant for those kids, paid for by us taxpayers?

In this I believe you may be wrong. You use statements such as, "at the least possible criminal" and allude that they went to a non-profit organization and took money intended for kids. I think, from what I've read, that the organization may have approached Air America and not the other way around. Still, we don't know and the investigation should tell us.

I think Air America is an Ultra Liberal corporation. I don't like Ultra Liberals anymore than I like Ultra Conservatives. Still, I only know what I read and so do you. Let's see where the investigation goes and what it comes up with. :duel

 

[Stinger]

Re: Air America “Charitygate”

QUOTES from Stinger are in Black - What evidence are you lacking? At the least it is a gross conflict of interest. AA has done it's 180 and says it will "eventually" pay the money back. Why was money loaned in the first place, that was federal money given in a grant to help little children why is it being funneled to a privately owned politically bias'd company? If AA is such a successful venture then it should have no problem luring private money, but no they had to go the back channel route and get it's hands on taxpayer money.

There is an ongoing investigation by New York State. During an investigation there won't be any payments made until the investigators report on where those payments need to go.

They know full well where they need to go because they have been instructed by the city DOI where to send IT, the whole amount not just a payment. So far they have only sent $50,000 and doesn't look like much else coming. So your point is fallicious.

They won't go to an organization that no longer exists through no fault of Air America but the state investigators will probably assign the payments to go back to the state.

They have been isntructed where to send IT and they have refused.

There was a sales pitch made by an individual and the organization agree to invest. The organization is allowed to invest to enhance capital. The organization themselves are the primary focus of the investigation for many different reasons.

If you are talking about Spitzer's investigation, yes the DA is investigating, you don't know, there is no basis for your contention that AA is not a primary focus.

Air America is part of that for this loan only. What has Air America done that is illegal?

We don't know yet do we. But we do know in the past they have committed fraud in thier fanicial disclosuers telling outright lies about thier finances. If they did so in this case that would be highly illegal.

ME>> This has nothing to do with any salesman you have ever seen or any trival stories you try to post.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the "trival (trivial?) stories you try to post" comment. I do know from working in radio and television that the on air staff knows about what sales......

This has nothing to do with any sales.

me>> At the least taxpayer money, typical of leftist.

Again I don't understand this. This loan was taxpayer money yes but it had been granted to the organization and they made the choice of what to do with it.

It certainly wasn't loaned to them to funnel to a leftist radio station in order to keep it afloat. They have no business speculating with taxpayer money sent to them to service the needs of children. What don't you understand? I smell a feint here.

In this I believe you may be wrong. You use statements such as, "at the least possible criminal" and allude that they went to a non-profit organization and took money intended for kids. I think, from what I've read, that the organization may have approached Air America and not the other way around.

Approached by who and from which direction. That is already known why do you pretend otherwise?

I think Air America is an Ultra Liberal corporation. I don't like Ultra Liberals anymore than I like Ultra Conservatives. Still, I only know what I read and so do you. Let's see where the investigation goes and what it comes up with.

Nothing more needs to be known in order to be outraged about it. If criminal charges are filed and criminal acts determined then I will only be MORE outraged. Are you taking the position that it is proper for non-profit organizations to petition for taxpayer money and then engage in speculative investments with it, especially ones tied toward politically bias'd organizations, known to be in financial distress?

 

[Stinger]

I'm sure the company has lots of hard working honest people in it's ranks. The company itself engages in business with countries, such as Iran, that they can not legally, as an American, company do business with. They do this by using a nothing more then a mail drop in the Cayman Islands and calling that mail drop an 'Off Shore Sub." In short they're doing business with governments that support terror and terrorist. The company is assisting governments who are helping those who attack and kill our troops. It's appalling and completely un-American.

I do agree with you what's this question doing in this thread? I smell an attempted Hijack.

Yes they can engage in business in Iran and compete against French companies and German companies and other companies from around the world that do business there. It is not illegal for them to do so as long as no Americans are involved. They have done business in Iran for many years, not much in the overall business they do. But the fact is they have announced, over 6 months ago that they will pull out as soon as existing contracts run out.

 

[gordontravels]

Re: Air America “Charitygate”

QUOTES from Stinger are in Black - What evidence are you lacking? At the least it is a gross conflict of interest. AA has done it's 180 and says it will "eventually" pay the money back. Why was money loaned in the first place, that was federal money given in a grant to help little children why is it being funneled to a privately owned politically bias'd company? If AA is such a successful venture then it should have no problem luring private money, but no they had to go the back channel route and get it's hands on taxpayer money.

They know full well where they need to go because they have been instructed by the city DOI where to send IT, the whole amount not just a payment. So far they have only sent $50,000 and doesn't look like much else coming. So your point is fallicious.

They have been isntructed where to send IT and they have refused.

If you are talking about Spitzer's investigation, yes the DA is investigating, you don't know, there is no basis for your contention that AA is not a primary focus.

We don't know yet do we. But we do know in the past they have committed fraud in thier fanicial disclosuers telling outright lies about thier finances. If they did so in this case that would be highly illegal.

This has nothing to do with any salesman you have ever seen or any trival stories you try to post.

This has nothing to do with any sales.

me>> At the least taxpayer money, typical of leftist.

It certainly wasn't loaned to them to funnel to a leftist radio station in order to keep it afloat. They have no business speculating with taxpayer money sent to them to service the needs of children. What don't you understand? I smell a feint here.

Nothing more needs to be known in order to be outraged about it. If criminal charges are filed and criminal acts determined then I will only be MORE outraged. Are you taking the position that it is proper for non-profit organizations to petition for taxpayer money and then engage in speculative investments with it, especially ones tied toward politically bias'd organizations, known to be in financial distress. END QUOTE FROM STINGER



All you prove by this rant is that you detest leftists and haven't a clue about what went on with this money or Air America or the Boys and Girls Club.

You don't explain where I can find my trivial stories. You refuse to understand that the Sales Department of any radio or television station is separate from the on air staff. The article that starts this in the Washington Times says "Al Franken should tell us all about it". Why Al Franken? He has a show on Air America, he doesn't go out and sell the programming.

The money wasn't loaned to the Boys and Girls club at all. It was grant money and they were wrong to invest it as they did. I am not sure their investment in Air America was in itself illegal but if you read the Washington Times article you will see that is was multiple New York State agencies that were after them.

Your question:

QUOTE BY STINGER: Are you taking the position that it is proper for non-profit organizations to petition for taxpayer money and then engage in speculative investments with it, especially ones tied toward politically bias'd organizations, known to be in financial distress? END QUOTE BY STINGER sheesh.

I invite you to go to any of my posts on this thread and tell me where I have said I am taking the position you cite above. I don't know whether it is illegal or not and neither do you. I have said that there is an investigation going on and I am willing to see what they find out. The Washington Times likes to write a story using jucy words but that doesn't mean that just because they think Al Franken, lothe him as I do, should know all about a deal that someone in sales made. YES I SAID SALES. Those are the guys in a broadcast organization that bring in the money. Not the performers.

If you are worried about someone giving money to politically biased organizations tell Ford and Chevy to stop advertising on the CBS and ABC evening news. Double sheesh.

You don't get it do you? :duel

 

[Navy Pride]

Air America's ratings are at an all time low..Look for them to pack in in any time.......

 

[gordontravels]

Air America's ratings are at an all time low..Look for them to pack in in any time.......

Mark Twain talked about the reports of his death being exagerations. As long as there are donors, not sponsors because they don't like to throw money away, but donors; I think Air America can go on for quite some time.

I will say again. I'm not Democrat or Republican because I think their party leaders are embarassments. I want Rush Limbaugh and Air America around so I can listen to them. I want to hear all sides even if that side is way off the mark for me. I want variety to spice up my life. Then I vote. :duel

 

[GPS_Flex]

You can spin it any way you like gordontravels but we all know what a field day Air America and Al Franken would be having with this story if it were Halliburton in the spot Air America is in.

 

[26 X World Champs]

You can spin it any way you like gordontravels but we all know what a field day Air America and Al Franken would be having with this story if it were Halliburton in the spot Air America is in.

What sort of analogy is this? Haliburton is a gigantic multi-national corporation who lines their coffers with taxpayer money by being awarded contracts without bids AND they set up off shore bullshit corporations so they can make money in countries American firms are, by law, forbidden to transact with, i.e. Iran.

You're comparing them to Air America and a loan made by a charity to the former owner of AA? You're suggesting that if Haliburton received a questionable loan from a charity that it would be a bigger story? :rofl

Good job!

 

[26 X World Champs]

Mark Twain talked about the reports of his death being exagerations. As long as there are donors, not sponsors because they don't like to throw money away, but donors; I think Air America can go on for quite some time.

I will say again. I'm not Democrat or Republican because I think their party leaders are embarassments. I want Rush Limbaugh and Air America around so I can listen to them. I want to hear all sides even if that side is way off the mark for me. I want variety to spice up my life. Then I vote.

I'm finding myself agreeing with Gordon more and more lately. If nothing else, he's being objective rather than subjective, and I respect that.

He's able to separate personal opinions by some posters here from the truth, regardless of which side of the aisle the personal opinions are coming from.

Good job Gordon!

 

[Pacridge]

So now you're saying this...

Mark Twain talked about the reports of his death being exagerations. As long as there are donors, not sponsors because they don't like to throw money away, but donors; I think Air America can go on for quite some time.

I will say again. I'm not Democrat or Republican because I think their party leaders are embarassments. I want Rush Limbaugh and Air America around so I can listen to them. I want to hear all sides even if that side is way off the mark for me. I want variety to spice up my life. Then I vote. :duel

But on 7-27 in the "Air America" thread you said...

Let's see! I think Air America will go belly up any day now. Of course they may choose bankruptcy first to gain some time but they won't make it to the next elections. Look at brother Al Franken. Sundance Channel at 11:30 pm east coast/10:30 central when the folks are all ready to sleep. Ask yourself, "Leno, Letterman or Franken?" Sheesh. Even Robert Redford doesn't watch, does he?

And while I speculate about Air America going bankrupt here is one that is asking how many companies Karl Rove bankrupted. I know the usual business bankruptcy is 9 out of 10 within the first 2 years (small business administration). If the question was asked maybe the asker knows the answer?

No. Liberal radio is just not commercial because it can't garner the ratings because the public, even the liberal public, can't listen. If liberal radio or television is to survive the liberals need to view and listen and they aren't or else there aren't enough of them to be rated in the first place. Shame too. I think all sides should be heard but then I can only listen to something interesting which I suppose others do too. Air America won't be long now. :duel

I would be careful, it sounds like you're making conflicting statements here. If you do not stick with the same opinion on issues at all times we have members on this site who will use such evolving opinions to question your credibility. In fact I've even seen members be called "a liar" for such a change.

Personally I think it's great to see people debate back and forth, review the information on any given topic and be willing to accept a different point of view. So if that's what you've done here I commend you.

 

[26 X World Champs]

I would be careful, it sounds like you're making conflicting statements here. If you do not stick with the same opinion on issues at all times we have members on this site who will use such evolving opinions to question your credibility. In fact I've even seen members be called "a liar" for such a change.

Personally I think it's great to see people debate back and forth, review the information on any given topic and be willing to accept a different point of view. So if that's what you've done here I commend you.

Well said!

What does Pacridge mean? What's the story behind the man?

 

[gordontravels]

You can spin it any way you like gordontravels but we all know what a field day Air America and Al Franken would be having with this story if it were Halliburton in the spot Air America is in.

You may call it spin but I call it opinion and I am sure that is what I am reading from you as well. Any time you want to turn it around the other way that's spin right? I don't doubt for a minute that if Al Franken got wind of letters bad for the President or an oil company that mishandled funds he would run with it. That's why we have go nowhere threads like these. The sides stand back and send in the spitballs and see if they stick.

I am no fan of Air America and certainly not Al Franken but read my former spin: I highly doubt that Al Franken took from the mouths of boys and girls. A person responsible for sales did and it was freely given by people running that organization that weren't being "legal" with other entities in the State of New York which has already been reported in the lead article in the Washington Times.

As for your observation Packridge I think you have it right. I came into the debate with a chip and then went back and reread the Washington Times article and realized that here was a conservative news source doing exactly what a liberal news source does. The latter post reflects my own knowledge of how the media works from my own experience as a member of that media. Liberal or conservative only thinks it's right but the reality of the situation is harder to understand when you only stand on one side and can't see through to the other. Thanks for your further comments as well.

I note here that one of the most used arguements here on the forum are by those who will not read what you say but tell you what you wrote. I'm not surprised. :duel

 

[Pacridge]

Well said!

What does Pacridge mean? What's the story behind the man?

It's short for Pacific Ridge Outfitters. A small business my wife and I own and operate.

 

[gordontravels]

It's short for Pacific Ridge Outfitters. A small business my wife and I own and operate.

I've hiked the Pacific Crest Trail end to end (usa) and been up Mt. Whitney 7 times, four on feet. My stompin grounds were the eastern High Sierra out of Lone Pine, Independence, Bishop, Tom's Place and Bridgeport (and all those other little road ends).

It's gordontravels because of Connie. I've loved her like no other. She's been there for me when others gave up long ago. She's been to the end of those roads and wants to see others. I can't lie (like everyone else here) I want to go with her. She is one of the most forward looking I have ever known. Best motorhome I ever owned. :duel

 

[Stinger]

Re: Air America “Charitygate”

All you prove by this rant is that you detest...

All you prove be that preface is that you can't argue the facts therefore you must assign some emotion to me and declare that since you must be above that your position is correct and mine is wrong. Silly but you post what you post.

You refuse to understand that the Sales Department of any radio or television station is separate from the on air staff. The article that starts this in the Washington Times says "Al Franken should tell us all about it". Why Al Franken? He has a show on Air America, he doesn't go out and sell the programming.

Once again I could care less about their sales department and I am not the Washington Times and I have said nothing about Franken or any of the on air personalities. Why do you keep trying to divert into trival matters? The fact remains through thier CEO or whatever he called himself a loan was arraigned through a non-profit which recieved taxpayer money. The question is whether that is proper use of taxpayer money issued in the form of a grant, which comes with stipultations as to it's use. The questions is whether this was a blantant conflict of interest and why isn't AA going out into the private sector to seek it's funding as opposed to this outrageous deal.

The money wasn't loaned to the Boys and Girls club at all.

Specious point no one said it was.

It was grant money and they were wrong to invest it as they did.

Exactly and it is outrageous how AA and the West concocted the deal and an abuse of taxpayer money.

I am not sure their investment in Air America was in itself illegal but if you read the Washington Times article you will see that is was multiple New York State agencies that were after them.

And I can't say for sure either until Spetzer concludes his investigation, my bet is there will be some illegalities in it as far as discloser and violation of the stipulations of the grant. Else we had better have an investiation into how such grants are being dished out and apply higher standards and stipulations.

Your question:

QUOTE BY STINGER: Are you taking the position that it is proper for non-profit organizations to petition for taxpayer money and then engage in speculative investments with it, especially ones tied toward politically bias'd organizations, known to be in financial distress? END QUOTE BY STINGER sheesh.

I invite you to go to any of my posts on this thread and tell me where I have said I am taking the position you cite above.

It certainly appears that way and that you are taking the position that unless it is illegal then it is fine and dandy.

I don't know whether it is illegal or not and neither do you. I have said that there is an investigation going on and I am willing to see what they find out.

See what I mean. Even if it is not illegal just from what we know now it stinks.

The Washington Times likes to write a story using jucy words but that doesn't mean that just because they think Al Franken, lothe him as I do, should know all about a deal that someone in sales made. YES I SAID SALES. Those are the guys in a broadcast organization that bring in the money. Not the performers.

I am in sales so I clearly know the value and contribution of a sales department, but take you beef to the Washington Times if you don't like what they write. I have said nothing of their sales department or Franken.

If you are worried about someone giving money to politically biased organizations tell Ford and Chevy to stop advertising on the CBS and ABC evening news. Double sheesh.

Do you not understand the difference between a non-profit operating on taxpayer funded grants and a private company operating in the private sector with it's own money? sheesh!

You don't get it do you? :duel

I think that is your problem not mine.

 

[Stinger]

Mark Twain talked about the reports of his death being exagerations. As long as there are donors, not sponsors because they don't like to throw money away, but donors; I think Air America can go on for quite some time.

I will say again. I'm not Democrat or Republican because I think their party leaders are embarassments. I want Rush Limbaugh and Air America around so I can listen to them. I want to hear all sides even if that side is way off the mark for me. I want variety to spice up my life. Then I vote. :duel

Not unless they have ratings or continue to find a way to get thier hands on taxpayer funded grants.

 

[AlbqOwl]

I think the charges, if true, are unjustifiable and reprehensible. It might be morbidly satisfying to conservatives, but the story is not that it is Air America despite its angry, anti-administration focus. It would be no less reprehensible committed by anybody else of whatever poltical persuasion.

The real scandal is that the main stream media, more particularly the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, etc. have all but ignored the story. Does anybody think it would not have been front page news if the perpetrator had been a leading Republican, friend of the administration, a right wing group of any kind?

So much for media objectivity.

This is summed up in an Arizona Republic piece this weekend:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0805maceachern05.html

 

[gordontravels]

Re: Air America “Charitygate”

All you prove be that preface is that you can't argue the facts therefore you must assign some emotion to me and declare that since you must be above that your position is correct and mine is wrong. Silly but you post what you post.

Once again I could care less about their sales department and I am not the Washington Times and I have said nothing about Franken or any of the on air personalities. Why do you keep trying to divert into trival matters? The fact remains through thier CEO or whatever he called himself a loan was arraigned through a non-profit which recieved taxpayer money. The question is whether that is proper use of taxpayer money issued in the form of a grant, which comes with stipultations as to it's use. The questions is whether this was a blantant conflict of interest and why isn't AA going out into the private sector to seek it's funding as opposed to this outrageous deal.
Specious point no one said it was.
Exactly and it is outrageous how AA and the West concocted the deal and an abuse of taxpayer money.
And I can't say for sure either until Spetzer concludes his investigation, my bet is there will be some illegalities in it as far as discloser and violation of the stipulations of the grant. Else we had better have an investiation into how such grants are being dished out and apply higher standards and stipulations.
Your question:

QUOTE BY STINGER: Are you taking the position that it is proper for non-profit organizations to petition for taxpayer money and then engage in speculative investments with it, especially ones tied toward politically bias'd organizations, known to be in financial distress? END QUOTE BY STINGER sheesh.

It certainly appears that way and that you are taking the position that unless it is illegal then it is fine and dandy.See what I mean. Even if it is not illegal just from what we know now it stinks.I am in sales so I clearly know the value and contribution of a sales department, but take you beef to the Washington Times if you don't like what they write. I have said nothing of their sales department or Franken.
Do you not understand the difference between a non-profit operating on taxpayer funded grants and a private company operating in the private sector with it's own money? sheesh!
I think that is your problem not mine.

I am well aware of what has been written and what has occured as far as what I have read. You have done the same, read what has been published. That is all both of us know and the rest is based on our opinions. We'll just have to see where the investigation goes. To be honest, I don't care what happened to the club or what may happen to Air America. That is the business of the people of New York and if it sets precedent then it will be good for the rest of us. Otherwise, where I live it won't make a difference.

You label one of my remarks specious but I see it different. Since it seems to me you want to look at my opinion as a my problem or specious; question my knowledge of profit/non-profit; claim that I don't understand basic tenets of business and......

When I say, "Mark Twain talked about the reports of his death being exagerations. As long as there are donors, not sponsors because they don't like to throw money away, but donors; I think Air America can go on for quite some time."

You say, "Not unless they have ratings or continue to find a way to get thier hands on taxpayer funded grants."

That not only ignores what I actually said but also shows that you expect them to continue what you and I think may be illegal funding. That is your bias and has no basis in fact except for the article on one organization that started this debate. I am right in that aren't I? They don't need ratings if donors want to keep them on the air, just if they want to sell to commercial entities.

I think maybe we are both reading our own intentions or beliefs into each other's words. As an example:

You say, "It certainly appears that way and that you are taking the position that unless it is illegal then it is fine and dandy.

I didn't say that.

I am interested in seeing your next post on what I have written here. My intention is to only read your words and not ascribe what I "think" you are saying or embelish your words with, "Are you saying.....". Your words will do. :duel

 

[Stinger]

Re: Air America “Charitygate”

I am well aware of what has been written and what has occured as far as what I have read. You have done the same, read what has been published.

Let's look at some additional reporting. Thanks to Ablqowl for the sourcing.

"A private media start-up with huge political pretensions and meager financial underpinnings uses taxpayer dollars from a Boys & Girls Club to help pay the salaries of high-profile hosts like comedian Al Franken. As a result of these dubious loans and other self-dealing, the Gloria Wise club will be sending no more poor kids from the Bronx to summer camp. It will be providing a lot fewer services, if any, to the Alzheimer's patients it helped.

"I'm still rocking from the experience," said Anna Capell, 80, a member of the club's executive committee.

Wholly unrocked by the experience, however, is the Bronx-area paper of record, the New York Times, which, since the story began to seriously break on July 29, has published exactly nothing on the scandal.

The Times' lack of interest has become the scandal within the scandal. Bloggers, of course, are making hay over the Times' disinterest in a story that casts the formerly much-heralded Air America in a very bad light."

That is all both of us know and the rest is based on our opinions.

And what we know as factual leads me to my opinion that this is outrageous. You seem to not think so.

We'll just have to see where the investigation goes.

To see if it is worse than we already know?

To be honest, I don't care what happened to the club or what may happen to Air America.

You don't care what they have been engaged in? Do you care about taxpayer payer money being spent to prop-up a failing liberal propaganda machine?

That is the business of the people of New York and if it sets precedent then it will be good for the rest of us.

I think it is the business of all taxpayers and I think the precendent that taxpayer money granted for the good of children and others who may suffer from diabilities should not be used to finance private propaganda machines. You don't believe that is a pretty well established precedent?

question my knowledge of profit/non-profit; claim that I don't understand basic tenets of business and......

I don't know whether you do or not but whether you do or not does not change the facts of what we know.

When I say, "Mark Twain talked about the reports of his death being exagerations. As long as there are donors, not sponsors because they don't like to throw money away, but donors; I think Air America can go on for quite some time."

You say, "Not unless they have ratings or continue to find a way to get thier hands on taxpayer funded grants."

That not only ignores what I actually said but also shows that you expect them to continue what you and I think may be illegal funding.

I was being facieous, but surely you get the point. In case you don't, AA is a private radio network. They are not NPR. Why is it that they have to seek "donations" and engage in the practice of funnelling money meant to help children and the disabled in order to survive? How about selling air time like every other radio station? The answer, ratings no one is listening to them.

That is your bias and has no basis in fact except for the article on one organization that started this debate. I am right in that aren't I? They don't need ratings if donors want to keep them on the air, just if they want to sell to commercial entities.

s

Not necessarily. If you donate to a cause you do so because you believe the cause is accomplishing something. Donate to the March of Dimes because you believe they are doing something. Donate to the local orphanage because they are accomplishing something. If you learn they are not accomplishing something soon you begin to question whether you should continue to donate to them. Now perhaps there are wealthy people who wish to donate to AA so that the people at AA can sit there and listen to themselves talk. But I would quess that with the continued decline in listenership and the bad job they are doing at getting out the liberal propaganda the donors what to get out, that the donors will start to look elsewhere to get more bang for their buck.

I think maybe we are both reading our own intentions or beliefs into each other's words. As an example:

You say, "It certainly appears that way and that you are taking the position that unless it is illegal then it is fine and dandy.

I didn't say that.

Well it pretty much is. You keep saying wait until the criminal investigation is over, well I know enough now to know this was an outrageous use of taxpayer money. It can only get worse.

 

[Stinger]

I think the charges, if true, are unjustifiable and reprehensible. It might be morbidly satisfying to conservatives, but the story is not that it is Air America despite its angry, anti-administration focus. It would be no less reprehensible committed by anybody else of whatever poltical persuasion.

You are exactly right. Imagine if it came out that the Sean Hannity radio show had gotten a loan from the Christian school that had recieve a federal grant through the No Child Left Behind act and that the show was refusing to pay the loan back because they were going broke. The NYT the LA Times, Newsweek, Time Mag and all the national networks would be all over it. Pelosi and Reid and Schummer and Kennedy would be screaming for blood. And RIGHTFULLY SO!

The real scandal is that the main stream media, more particularly the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, etc. have all but ignored the story.

Amazing, pitful, but not surprising.

 

[gordontravels]

I will wait for the investigation to completed as I believe you have said. You put up quotes that talk about taking the money from boys and girls to pay Al Franken's payroll? Read the opening article on this thread and the first referenced link and you will see that that club is gone because of:

QUOTE: Investigators found "significant inappropriate transactions and falsified documents that were submitted to various City agencies." The city subsequently suspended the club's contracts, which run well into the millions. END QUOTE

They are talking about the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club making "significant inappropriate transactions", "falsified documents" to "various City agencies". And the City "suspended the club's contracts".

I will wait for the investigation to be completed. :duel

 

[AlbqOwl]

gordontravels writes

I will wait for the investigation to be completed

I would agree if the main stream media did its job. In the last decade or so, however, the MSM has used its powers to not just inform, but it seeks to deliberately influence what the people think and believe. That frequently means that information that would influence people differently is often glossed over, omitted, distorted, or buried.

The Fifth Estate has thus assumed unprecedented powers to influence politics and policy. . . .

. . . .except for. . .

the internet.

We bloggers, both the idiots and the well informed, are currently the front line to ensure that the truth be told. We keep the issues out there until the MSM has to deal with them. Otherwise, the truth of many of these things would never be told.

Because there is a sufficient mix of left and right wing influence expressed here, I think we are doing a service. We often force the MSM, and also those in authority, to deal with an issue.

That's just my opinion of course. I could be wrong. But it sure looks right.

 

[Stinger]

I will wait for the investigation to completed as I believe you have said.

I will wait to see if it is worse than what we know now but I need no additional information to see how outrageous this whole deal is. What is it that you are waiting for before you see that too? We know for a fact that

1. Cohen had executive responsibility and acted as an officer in both Gloria Wise and AA. A gross conflict of interest.

2. We know that he funneled grant money from Gloria Wise meant for children and the disabled to AA to keep it afloat.

3. We know AA tried to deny any involvement and now they agree they own the money back.

4. We know they have been ordered by the state DOI to immediately place all the funds into and escrow account and they refuse placing only a paltry $50,000 and saying it may be two years before the can pay it back.

Yes it may and it probably will get worse and there probably will be criminal charges filed, so what? It's bad enough as it is.

You put up quotes that talk about taking the money from boys and girls to pay Al Franken's payroll?

Yes the reporting mentions the fact that some of the money most probably went to pay the high salaries of the talking heads. They have to live with that and decide whether they will do the right thing and return at least a portion of that money.

Read the opening article on this thread and the first referenced link and you will see that that club is gone because of:

QUOTE: Investigators found "significant inappropriate transactions and falsified documents that were submitted to various City agencies." The city subsequently suspended the club's contracts, which run well into the millions. END QUOTE

Yes it probably gets worse. But it's bad enought now.

I will wait for the investigation to be completed.

Wait for what? What about the facts at hand?

 

[AlbqOwl]

That's pretty much where I am too, Stinger. I am 100% with gordontravels to not pass judgment before all the facts are in. But I sure don't think we should expect others to tell us what we should believe about those facts.

 

[Stinger]

That's pretty much where I am too, Stinger. I am 100% with gordontravels to not pass judgment before all the facts are in. But I sure don't think we should expect others to tell us what we should believe about those facts.

What more do you need to know? What is it that you have doubts about? Just on what we know there should be outrage. And it can only get worse if criminal charges are filed. Or do you and Gordon believe that ONLY criminal acts are outrageous and anything that skims the law is just A-OK?