• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ain't Capitalism great!

Zalatix

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
662
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
You go to a four-year college, take out a fat loan to pay for it, and learn a specialized-in-demand skill.

You get laid off because said skill became obsolete inside of 10 years.

You're back in college to take out a new loan to learn a new skill in the next in-demand industry which is looking to hire fewer workers than the previous industry.

* Said skill becomes obsolete inside of 5 years.

Rinse, repeat. Now you're out on the unemployment line in 2 years.

Exactly how is this going to benefit the working class which corporate America relies on to consume their goods and services...?

* We're at that point now.
 

CalGun

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
3,268
Location
Denio Junction
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Capitalism has produced a hell of a lot more for man kind in a positive way then any socialist ever has or will.
 

Zalatix

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
662
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Capitalism has produced a hell of a lot more for man kind in a positive way then any socialist ever has or will.
Not true. Democracy has.
 

Papa bull

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
6,927
Reaction score
2,599
Location
Midwest
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
You go to a four-year college, take out a fat loan to pay for it, and learn a specialized-in-demand skill.

You get laid off because said skill became obsolete inside of 10 years.

You're back in college to take out a new loan to learn a new skill in the next in-demand industry which is looking to hire fewer workers than the previous industry.

* Said skill becomes obsolete inside of 5 years.

Rinse, repeat. Now you're out on the unemployment line in 2 years.

Exactly how is this going to benefit the working class which corporate America relies on to consume their goods and services...?

* We're at that point now.
Make better choices, do better work and adapt. I was a programmer for a fortune 500 company for over 15 years and learned everything I learned about programming on my own time with self-study. In the meantime, I learned other skills and when it became obvious that my expertise wasn't going to be necessary forever, I got out, bought a home outright with cash that I saved and started up my business doing what I'd been practicing on for over 6 years. I work at home... work my own hours... own my home and land outright, have zero debt including credit cards and still earn better than median income with health insurance being the only significant bill in my life. And I did this starting out from a broken home, with a Cuban father, an abusive mom after dropping out of highshool 3/4 of the way through my junior year to join the Army three weeks after I turned 17.

This week, I made about 2200 dollars and next week, I'll probably spend most of my time fishing because I'm not interested in earning enough for a bunch of greedy socialist bastards to skim half of what I make in order to send welfare checks to people who would rather eat dirt than do an honest day's work. I worked my ass off for 36 years already and now I look back and realize that if I had gone the easy route, instead of working two jobs for long periods of time, working and studying for long periods of time and taking chances to do work I wasn't getting paid very well to do, I still wouldn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.

People need to realize that their security is in the hands of the man in the mirror and no one else. Your financial future is your responsibility. Pay now or pay later. Trust me, it's easier to pay when you're young.
 

CalGun

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
3,268
Location
Denio Junction
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
And what democracy was that? Sorry you failed history - Capitalism has done far more for people then any socialist has; as usually the socialist missed the point.


Not true. Democracy has.
 

Zalatix

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
662
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Make better choices, do better work and adapt. I was a programmer for a fortune 500 company for over 15 years and learned everything I learned about programming on my own time with self-study. In the meantime, I learned other skills and when it became obvious that my expertise wasn't going to be necessary forever, I got out, bought a home outright with cash that I saved and started up my business doing what I'd been practicing on for over 6 years. I work at home... work my own hours... own my home and land outright, have zero debt including credit cards and still earn better than median income with health insurance being the only significant bill in my life. And I did this starting out from a broken home, with a Cuban father, an abusive mom after dropping out of highshool 3/4 of the way through my junior year to join the Army three weeks after I turned 17.

This week, I made about 2200 dollars and next week, I'll probably spend most of my time fishing because I'm not interested in earning enough for a bunch of greedy socialist bastards to skim half of what I make in order to send welfare checks to people who would rather eat dirt than do an honest day's work. I worked my ass off for 36 years already and now I look back and realize that if I had gone the easy route, instead of working two jobs for long periods of time, working and studying for long periods of time and taking chances to do work I wasn't getting paid very well to do, I still wouldn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.

People need to realize that their security is in the hands of the man in the mirror and no one else. Your financial future is your responsibility. Pay now or pay later. Trust me, it's easier to pay when you're young.
Ever heard of musical chairs? There's 3 chairs and 10 of you. If all 10 of you did exactly what you did, how many will be without a job?
 

Barnabas Collins

New member
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
48
Reaction score
20
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The sad part of it in the USA is that there is socialism for the rich and the poor and predatory capitalism for the working and middle class. And one should never forget it is not the average-type American that own the likes of ABC, ABC, CBS or CNN. If you think your views will be considered all that much from the mainstream media you need to catch up on your Bernays or Chomsky.
 

Zalatix

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
662
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
And what democracy was that? Sorry you failed history - Capitalism has done far more for people then any socialist has; as usually the socialist missed the point.
Sorry you failed life, dude - the right to vote and determine the laws that one lived under, was what kept Capitalism from reverting to a network of monopolies and company towns - you know, like the middle ages.

Lots of people were killed in the name of Capitalism. Remember Pinkerton? It was Democracy that put an end to that. Please show your ignorance of history and claim I'm wrong on that.
 

Zalatix

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
662
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
The sad part of it in the USA is that there is socialism for the rich and the poor and predatory capitalism for the working and middle class. And one should never forget it is not the average-type American that own the likes of ABC, ABC, CBS or CNN. If you think your views will be considered all that much from the mainstream media you need to catch up on your Bernays or Chomsky.
Well said.
 

Papa bull

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
6,927
Reaction score
2,599
Location
Midwest
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Ever heard of musical chairs? There's 3 chairs and 10 of you. If all 10 of you did exactly what you did, how many will be without a job?
What you seem to be unable to comprehend is that I made my own chair. In fact, what I do now is so unique that there aren't a dozen guys in the entire world doing it full time and maybe 20 doing it part time (if that). And when I started doing it, there was only one other guy in the whole world doing it. It is entirely possible for people to create their own opportunities. The problem with socialists is that they keep thinking it's all about being "given" something. Being given money, or an opportunity or a job or government assistance or free career training.... The secret to success in life isn't standing in a line with other losers holding your hand out waiting for someone to give you something. That's the secret to panhandling, but it's not the secret to success.
 

Mathematician

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
1,187
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
You go to a four-year college, take out a fat loan to pay for it, and learn a specialized-in-demand skill.

You get laid off because said skill became obsolete inside of 10 years.

You're back in college to take out a new loan to learn a new skill in the next in-demand industry which is looking to hire fewer workers than the previous industry.

* Said skill becomes obsolete inside of 5 years.

Rinse, repeat. Now you're out on the unemployment line in 2 years.

Exactly how is this going to benefit the working class which corporate America relies on to consume their goods and services...?

* We're at that point now.
That's the story of someone who can't plan worth a crap.
 

Zalatix

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
662
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
What you seem to be unable to comprehend is that I made my own chair. In fact, what I do now is so unique that there aren't a dozen guys in the entire world doing it full time and maybe 20 doing it part time (if that). And when I started doing it, there was only one other guy in the whole world doing it. It is entirely possible for people to create their own opportunities. The problem with socialists is that they keep thinking it's all about being "given" something. Being given money, or an opportunity or a job or government assistance or free career training.... The secret to success in life isn't standing in a line with other losers holding your hand out waiting for someone to give you something. That's the secret to panhandling, but it's not the secret to success.
If you are only earning $2200 a week then your skill isn't all that unique. But then you also said you don't want to make enough to be heavily taxed, which shows you are either not as unique as you believe you are, or you're just behaving foolishly. I for one do a hell of a lot more than $2200 a week and unlike you I didn't let fear of evil socialists stop me from pursuing my potential.

As for creating your own chair, I will invite you to think about the consequences of 16 million people starting their own businesses and trying to get that to take off. In a country where the working class has less and less money to spend.
 

KevinKohler

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
21,929
Reaction score
9,973
Location
CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It's not about getting hand outs.

Who mentioned hand outs?
 

Papa bull

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
6,927
Reaction score
2,599
Location
Midwest
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
If you are only earning $2200 a week then your skill isn't all that unique. But then you also said you don't want to make enough to be heavily taxed, which shows you are either not as unique as you believe you are, or you're just behaving foolishly. I for one do a hell of a lot more than $2200 a week and unlike you I didn't let fear of evil socialists stop me from pursuing my potential.

As for creating your own chair, I will invite you to think about the consequences of 16 million people starting their own businesses and trying to get that to take off. In a country where the working class has less and less money to spend.
No, the thing is that what I do is an artisan trade and I do it for a niche market. I actually make things with my hands. I set things up so I don't need to make six figures any more. That means I don't have to work as hard as I used to. If you play your cards right, maybe you can do that, too. That's the beauty of capitalism. You are free to do what you want and all you have to do is accept responsibility for the consequences.

16 Million, huh? There are currently 21 million "non-employer firms" in the USA. Statistics about Business Size (including Small Business) from the U.S. Census Bureau There are countless ways to go out and earn a living and becoming a 9-5'er for some company or corporation is only one of the options.

You know what I've come to find after years of talking to people about this.... losers always have an prepared excuse for why there's nothing they can do to better themselves. There's no advice you can give them that they don't reject offhand because every sensible thing you tell them takes work and/or risk and they don't want any part of either one of those two things.
 

Mathematician

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
1,187
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Not when there aren't even enough jobs to go around.
Wrong. Avoiding such a situation is accomplished by planned studies which have fallback opportunities and ways to stand out above your competition.
 

CalGun

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
3,268
Location
Denio Junction
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
I never said capitalism was perfect. Ill try this for you a third time since the first two didn't take. It's better than socialism, done more for man than socialism has, and I think more for man than socialism ever will. As for death and killing look up demicide and tell many how many capitalist nations were responsible for killing 262 million people over the last 200 years?

And by the way the US is a republic not a democracy, but don't let the facts bug you. I know I know who needs a fact when opinions are all that matter right?


Sorry you failed life, dude - the right to vote and determine the laws that one lived under, was what kept Capitalism from reverting to a network of monopolies and company towns - you know, like the middle ages.

Lots of people were killed in the name of Capitalism. Remember Pinkerton? It was Democracy that put an end to that. Please show your ignorance of history and claim I'm wrong on that.
 

beerftw

proud ammosexual
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
18,174
Reaction score
5,243
Location
kekistan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
You go to a four-year college, take out a fat loan to pay for it, and learn a specialized-in-demand skill.

You get laid off because said skill became obsolete inside of 10 years.

You're back in college to take out a new loan to learn a new skill in the next in-demand industry which is looking to hire fewer workers than the previous industry.

* Said skill becomes obsolete inside of 5 years.

Rinse, repeat. Now you're out on the unemployment line in 2 years.

Exactly how is this going to benefit the working class which corporate America relies on to consume their goods and services...?

* We're at that point now.
well now its the same old story from you blaming capitalism for everyhing.

in reality having to update your profession every ten years shows both economic and technological progress.many countries that dont udate their knowledge for the job usually dont have to because they are way behind the times.

the only thing you could attack would be the college system,which any free trade country would be wise to invest in education in order to maintain its competitive edge,as the benefits outweigh the cost.
 

trfjr

Banned
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
3,114
Reaction score
1,004
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
You go to a four-year college, take out a fat loan to pay for it, and learn a specialized-in-demand skill.

You get laid off because said skill became obsolete inside of 10 years.

You're back in college to take out a new loan to learn a new skill in the next in-demand industry which is looking to hire fewer workers than the previous industry.

* Said skill becomes obsolete inside of 5 years.

Rinse, repeat. Now you're out on the unemployment line in 2 years.

Exactly how is this going to benefit the working class which corporate America relies on to consume their goods and services...?

* We're at that point now.
have you ever heard of pulling your head out your ass and realize what is going to happen before it happens. did you ever think of going to school as you work when you realize your current job is going to eventually be obsolete.

Jobs become obsolete caused by progress. do you not want progress?. that is what capitalism creates is progress. it is why the US leads every nation in inventions and ingenuity
 

Velvet Elvis

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
2,195
Location
Midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
If you are only earning $2200 a week then your skill isn't all that unique.
You do realize that you've quoted a salary described as "the one percent," right? I mean....I hope your "skills" include basic freakin' math.

I for one do a hell of a lot more than $2200 a week and unlike you I didn't let fear of evil socialists stop me from pursuing my potential.
If you make more than $2,200 a week, then I'm the Pope.

In a country where the working class has less and less money to spend.
If you can't make it in life with $114,000 (your quoted salary), you absolutely...positively suck at life, and you should go live as a hermit.
 

Zalatix

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
662
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
No, the thing is that what I do is an artisan trade and I do it for a niche market. I actually make things with my hands. I set things up so I don't need to make six figures any more. That means I don't have to work as hard as I used to. If you play your cards right, maybe you can do that, too. That's the beauty of capitalism. You are free to do what you want and all you have to do is accept responsibility for the consequences.
I played my cards and did a lot better than what you're saying. And unlike you I'm not afraid to keep doing well just because some scary socialists might take some of my money through taxes.

I'm surprised you haven't moved out of America to some island country or maybe Thailand or some ****. If you really were the man you say you are, you would at least be considering it.

16 Million, huh? There are currently 21 million "non-employer firms" in the USA. Statistics about Business Size (including Small Business) from the U.S. Census Bureau There are countless ways to go out and earn a living and becoming a 9-5'er for some company or corporation is only one of the options.
So we add 16 million new businesses to those 21 million existing businesses. Thereby nearly DOUBLING their number. I can't imagine you know how many new businesses fail every year, do you?

I for one don't need that many more solicitors cramming the streets for 8 hours or longer every day. And I guarantee you that 16 million new businesses means at least 4 million of them will become solicitors. It'll be great money for the oil industry and then bankruptcy lawyers when they run out of money to pay their bills.

You know what I've come to find after years of talking to people about this.... losers always have an prepared excuse for why there's nothing they can do to better themselves. There's no advice you can give them that they don't reject offhand because every sensible thing you tell them takes work and/or risk and they don't want any part of either one of those two things.
Then you can feel free to stop giving your simple-minded advice and declare victory.
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
76,112
Reaction score
43,948
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
You go to a four-year college, take out a fat loan to pay for it, and learn a specialized-in-demand skill.

You get laid off because said skill became obsolete inside of 10 years.

You're back in college to take out a new loan to learn a new skill in the next in-demand industry which is looking to hire fewer workers than the previous industry.

* Said skill becomes obsolete inside of 5 years.

Rinse, repeat. Now you're out on the unemployment line in 2 years.

Exactly how is this going to benefit the working class which corporate America relies on to consume their goods and services...?

* We're at that point now.
Free market capitalism is one of the best methods for driving innovation and spreading out wealth as much as possible. We have corporate capitalism, which is a different beast all together. It's a closed system that fuses corporations and state into the Corporate State. Under Corporate Capitalism, economic mobility dwindles, wealth disparity grows, corporate welfare abounds, regular welfare has to take off too since wealth disparity grows more and more people are destitute. But it's all part of the same plan to subjugate as many people to the Corporate State as possible. You'll see the emergence of a new aristocracy which will run pretty much everything continually and as the former Republic looses more and more touch with the People, the government will stop acting for the People and act almost exclusively for the aristocrats and corporations.
 

Zalatix

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
662
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
You do realize that you've quoted a salary described as "the one percent," right? I mean....I hope your "skills" include basic freakin' math.
Just about any big company CEO makes more than that.

As for $2,200 a week being the top 1%, it is your math that is hilariously and ironically wrong. A 1%er made nearly $350,000 a year as of 2009.

If you make more than $2,200 a week, then I'm the Pope.
Because you consistently dislike what I have to say, I have to be poor.

If you even hold a job much less run your own business then I'm Emperor Palpatine himself.

At least I know what a 1%er really is... unlike you.

If you can't make it in life with $114,000 (your quoted salary), you absolutely...positively suck at life, and you should go live as a hermit.
I agree with that. But if you limit yourself to that out of fear of the evil socialist tax system then you are an idiot.

And I must, for entertainment's sake, remind you that $114,000 a year is not the 1%. It's not even a THIRD of the way there. :lamo
 

Papa bull

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
6,927
Reaction score
2,599
Location
Midwest
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
LOL. I'm throttling my output and my effort. I could work harder to support losers but why put in more hours, sweat and blood than necessary just so worthless bastards can get more of it?

It's called work-life balance. It's something people who don't work can't easily comprehend.
 
Top Bottom