Ahmaud Arbery's killers found guilty on all counts in federal hate crime trial

[rahl]

Been law since 68, any challenges to it being unconstitutional
by SCOTUS are long past

I don't disagree.

 

[JANFU]

No. That was never my take in the Arbery case but apparently you’re too lazy to look that stuff up and just hateful enough to see an opportunity to piss slander on anyone you dislike.

The idea of a “hate crime” conviction on top of LWOP is nothing but social posturing. It fixes nothing, punishes nothing and promotes a concept of. Entrance rather than Justice.

So what is your opinion when someone is sentenced to 30,000 years?

World's longest prison sentences - France 24

World's longest prison sentences

www.france24.com

 

[fbi10]

Shouldn’t have taken the law into their own hands. It could have been handled by the law if he did break the law

 

[CharloTexan]

The end result here is horrible. My question is shouldn't this kid have realized poking around in a white neighborhood in Georgia is dangerous? It's wise to know your audience.

Surely he was just trying to find out where in the "white neighborhood" a black man could get a drink of water.

 

[CaughtInThe]

It won't stop our white supremacists/racists from being racists.

 

[NuffSaid]

Sometimes I wish that reciprocal punishment would be legal.

Aubry's family gets to have guns, and chase these ****ers down the street, then shoot them.

 

[madman]

What other constitutional charge, besides murder, are you talking about? You can't, at least constitutionally, punish someones thoughts or beliefs. You can only punish their actions.

I said NOTHING about constitutionl charge. The constitution, is indeed, a living doc. I know you dont like hearing that.

 

[rahl]

Hate crimes are, IMO, crimes against not just the individual (Aubry), but crimes against a group, like a racial, ethnic, sexual orientation, or such (fat people or skinny people, I don't know), such that it carries with it a greater risk to others in the community.

But the constitution doesn't allow for this. It's not murder of an entire "ethnic" group or race, when one individual is killed. The only crimes committed in this case, were against a single individual.

Even if you just like to trip pretty blondes as they cross the street, just because you have some internal hatred for blondes, and you have frequently expressed your hatred, and then you are actually caught doing the tripping, and are subsequently convicted with an appropriate penalty, but then because of the special circumstances and danger to blondes, your sentence is enhanced due to your acting out on your hatred.

This is different than what happened here. This was an entirely separate trial, in federal court, for the same crime. Enhanced charges/sentencing is fine, based on the motive of the perpetrator

You could have hated from a chair on the sidewalk with just speech, but you acted out illegally with physical assault and threaten to do so again, so more punishment for you as a hate crime.

Only in terms of harsher sentencing, for the ACTUAL crime committed. IMO, this is all the constitution permits.

 

[SkyFox76]

The life sentence for the guy who just blocked in the kid seems a bit harsh to me. Perhaps there is more to this than what I am seeing. In fairness, I haven't delved too deeply into this case. Also, why was the kid snooping around in that house?

Owner suspects he was coming in for water as it can be heard in one of the videos. Also, he wasn't the only one going into that property.

 

[Superfly]

What does this conviction accomplish that the criminal one didn’t? What? Are the sentences longer now? Is Arbery less dead? Are we now a less racist nation? Tell me, oh wise one, what was made better by this?

I've already mentioned this. Hate crime charges were filed before the murder charge even went to trial. There was a possibility that they would walk. That's why multiple charges are always filed against criminals.

But you knew this, I'm sure.

 

[What if...?]

I'm hugely conflicted on this. They were already, rightfully and justly convicted for their actions. Hate crime legislation seeks to criminalize thoughts, which I don't believe in. I honestly have no idea how hate crime legislation has survived constitutional scrutiny.

Don’t be sad. Now they’ll likely get to serve their sentences in federal prison. Which isn’t as cushy as people believe but much better than state time where they live.

 

[rahl]

I said NOTHING about constitutionl charge. The constitution, is indeed, a living doc. I know you dont like hearing that.

It quite specifically and deliberately is not.

 

[Superfly]

The end result here is horrible. My question is shouldn't this kid have realized poking around in a white neighborhood in Georgia is dangerous? It's wise to know your audience.

You're blaming the victim? He should have known not to "poke around" a white neighborhood in Georgia?

 

[Lutherf]

So what is your opinion when someone is sentenced to 30,000 years?

World's longest prison sentences - France 24

World's longest prison sentences

www.france24.com

I'm not all that opposed to the death penalty for certain crimes. If you're never going to see the light of day again then sentences beyond what a normal life would be are absurd.

 

[Superfly]

I think he lived in the area himself. Most joggers don't go too far from home for a run.

He did. Not from that neighborhood, but from what I understood, he jogged there often because it's a nice, tree-lined neighborhood that was a good place to jog.

 

[What if...?]

Owner suspects he was coming in for water as it can be heard in one of the videos. Also, he wasn't the only one going into that property.

Did you see the video where he approached the porta pottie looking at the door and then suddenly turned and went into the garage?

Looked for all the world like somebody looking for a place to take a surprise shit.

 

[Lutherf]

I've already mentioned this. Hate crime charges were filed before the murder charge even went to trial. There was a possibility that they would walk. That's why multiple charges are always filed against criminals.

But you knew this, I'm sure.

That kind of ignores everything I asked but I really didn't expect an answer. Maybe you just like the idea of an additional sentence on top of LWOP because it makes you feel better about yourself or something.

 

[Superfly]

Sometimes I wish that reciprocal punishment would be legal.

Aubry's family gets to have guns, and chase these ****ers down the street, then shoot them.

Corral them like animals, like they did Arbery.

 

[Superfly]

That kind of ignores everything I asked but I really didn't expect an answer. Maybe you just like the idea of an additional sentence on top of LWOP because it makes you feel better about yourself or something.

How so? Not sure why you're struggling with this, unless you're just looking to be argumentative, which is so unlike you (she said facetiously).

Both charges were filed in case he walked on the murder trial. At least, if he walked for murder, they could go after him for hate crimes.

Why you having such a hard time with this?

 

[AGENT J]

I'm hugely conflicted on this. They were already, rightfully and justly convicted for their actions. Hate crime legislation seeks to criminalize thoughts, which I don't believe in. I honestly have no idea how hate crime legislation has survived constitutional scrutiny.

factually wrong
you can have all the thoughts you want they are meaningless and there is no crime against them

what it does is criminalize actions based on reason/motives etc

basically the same principle behind many other different charges like involuntary manslaughter vs murder 1,
are you against the different murder tiers also? should they all be the same?

should a person that plans out a murder, a drives two states away uses a disguise to commit a murder be considered the exact same as somebody coming home to find their daughter raped then sees the rapiest running away, chases him down and strangles him to death? or somebody that is driving recklessly in a field who rolls their car with a friend in it and it kills them?

 

[AGENT J]

I don't disagree with that. But the intent was prosecuted already, in the murder charge. A federal "hate crime" prosecution is not the same. It is specifically targeting and punishing thoughts. The action has already been prosecuted. IMO it is just not compatible with the constitution.

No matter how many times you say this it's factually wrong
without an ACTION there's nothing to punish . . they could have all the thoughts they want

 

[Mongidig]

You're blaming the victim? He should have known not to "poke around" a white neighborhood in Georgia?

Arbery is clearly the victim. Those who chased him down and shot him are clearly the criminals. I just think the circumstances that lead up to these events are often glossed over. I think there are teaching moments to be had. Arbery shouldn't have been snooping around the house. The criminals should have let the cops take care of this. They all lost. I personally am very aware of my environment at all times and don't leave to chance that I will encounter a rational person every time.

 

[SkyFox76]

Did you see the video where he approached the porta pottie looking at the door and then suddenly turned and went into the garage?

Looked for all the world like somebody looking for a place to take a surprise shit.

I've watched those videos front backwards and sideways. In fact, I'm the one that brought in the screen grab of T McMichaels raising the rifle at Arbery while standing at the passenger door.

Funny thing is it was actually a white couple that Larry English accused of stealing stuff while they were there.

Instead, in videos and 911 calls shown through the deposition, English explicitly referenced his concern with stealing in relation to a white couple seen coming onto the property.

On the night they could be seen, English made at least three calls to 911 from his home in Coffee County about 90 minutes away (the home under construction was to be his second home).

In one, he referenced seeing them with "some kind of bag" and "I thought to call y'all as quick as possible." He goes on to describe it as a "tool bag" and said, "I think they might be trying to steal."

In a second call, he said he thinks the couple is who stole items out of his offshore fishing boat that was on the property. English said in his deposition that about $2,500 of electronic equipment, as well as a Yeti cooler, was taken out of the boat sometime in 2019.

"I know that first time they went in and stole," he said, with some of the rest of his call muffled.

'I think they might be trying to steal' | Homeowner's 911 call on white couple in Ahmaud Arbery death trial

An unfinished home where Arbery was occasionally seen entering in the weeks up to and on the day of his death is at the center of the case.

www.11alive.com

Wonder why the McMichael's weren't chasing white people down?

 

[Superfly]

Arbery is clearly the victim. Those who chased him down and shot him are clearly the criminals. I just think the circumstances that lead up to these events are often glossed over. I think there are teaching moments to be had. Arbery shouldn't have been snooping around the house. The criminals should have let the cops take care of this. They all lost. I personally am very aware of my environment at all times and don't leave to chance that I will encounter a rational person every time.

You are blaming him for walking into a house to get a drink of water. He did the same thing that we all have done, yet we are alive to tell the tale.

He should be able to walk into an under-construction house to get a drink of water. That should not be a reason for him to be gunned down by a bunch of redneck vigilantes.

 

[Lutherf]

How so? Not sure why you're struggling with this, unless you're just looking to be argumentative, which is so unlike you (she said facetiously).

Both charges were filed in case he walked on the murder trial. At least, if he walked for murder, they could go after him for hate crimes.

Why you having such a hard time with this?

Were they convicted AND SENTENCED for the murder before this trial or not? Why even have this trial if they all got life in the criminal trial? Is it just an administrative thing that has to get done if charges are filed? Does that make sense?

Again, what does this conviction do to make life in America better?