Ahmadinejad's Letter to Bush (1 Viewer)

[Pen]

I hoped this letter would make it to the 'net and it appears Le Monde has acquired and translated a copy. One of the things that makes this letter so unusal is that there has been no direct contact between Iran and the US in 27 years. I would like to discuss what each of us believes is the intent of this letter. My initial thought is that Ahmadinejad is hoping to gain world sympathy for Iran, rather than offering diplomatic engagement to resolve the nuclear standoff. I need to read the letter more closely and give more thought to it.

The text is too long to quote here, but you will find it at this link:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051006A.shtml

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

Moved to appropriate forum

 

[MSgt]

He's just looking for a stall. He sees the writing on the wall and realizes that his mouth (declarations of destruction) has caused much of the alignment against his nuclear program.

Of course, he continues to display his conflict by sending a letter of good intent while continuing to call for Israel's destruction.:roll:

 

[Kelzie]

He's just looking for a stall. He sees the writing on the wall and realizes that his mouth (declarations of destruction) has caused much of the alignment against his nuclear program.

Of course, he continues to display his conflict by sending a letter of good intent while continuing to call for Israel's destruction.:roll:

From what I've heard of the letter it's a bunch of revisionist history and a couple jabs at the US. If he was going to try to stall, you'd think he'd at least put on a good show. Fool.:roll:

 

[MSgt]

From what I've heard of the letter it's a bunch of revisionist history and a couple jabs at the US. If he was going to try to stall, you'd think he'd at least put on a good show. Fool.:roll:

Exactly. Iran has a habit of revising history, especially their own.

 

[Strike For The South]

The man is just puffing his chest trying to prove to his people that he isnt afriad to take on the infidel The way I see it I say let them have it. There isnt much we can do to stop it. The UN sactions will be spineless especally without Chinas backing and with our overstreched armed forces we couldnt invade much less hold the country. Not to mention allowing them to have it under strict supervision of course may discourage any "deals" they would make with terrorists. Wishful thinking maybe but its also wishful to belive we can stop them.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Sounds to me like it was an attempt to call Bush to Islam which is the tradition of Muslims before they engage in a war.

 

[MSgt]

The man is just puffing his chest trying to prove to his people that he isnt afriad to take on the infidel The way I see it I say let them have it. There isnt much we can do to stop it. The UN sactions will be spineless especally without Chinas backing and with our overstreched armed forces we couldnt invade much less hold the country. Not to mention allowing them to have it under strict supervision of course may discourage any "deals" they would make with terrorists. Wishful thinking maybe but its also wishful to belive we can stop them.

A ground invasion is not an immediate option anyway. Precision bombing on nuclear sites will suffice - when it inevitably happens.

 

[Volker]

The reason of this letter was to initiate direct negotiations with America or at least show the willingness to do so. The United States can agree or they can decline. They have the next draw. Mr. Ahmadinejad could only win by writing this letter.

 

[Volker]

It was great to mention political forums in the first sentence of the letter

 

[MSgt]

The reason of this letter was to initiate direct negotiations with America or at least show the willingness to do so. The United States can agree or they can decline. They have the next draw. Mr. Ahmadinejad could only win by writing this letter.

Yeah. Let's negotiate with a lunatic as he swears destruction on an ally. Only confused Muslims and ignorant idealists would look at such a pathetic "johnny come lately" letter as a victory. Something tells me that you would be singing a different tune were it your country being threatened.

You ever stop to think about why this letter went to the States instead of to the EU (the one's who initiated all of this) or the UN? There is nothing sincere about this letter. One only has to look at the authors. As always, the Middle East targets the ultimate scapegoat for the sake of their oppressed civilization as Europe gets a free pass to scoff.

 

[Gardener]

Yeah. Let's negotiate with a lunatic as he swears destruction on an ally. Only confused Muslims and ignorant idealists would look at such a pathetic "johnny come lately" letter as a victory. Something tells me that you would be singing a different tune were it your country being threatened.

Since Volker has referred to living in another country before moving to Germany, has stated that Europe should capitulate to the demands of Islamists, has said he has stood in a position where he could look out across Isreal, prefers a lack of freedom to freedom, is intimately familiar with Muslim practices that remain unknown to the overwhelming majority of westerners and has refused on several occasions to address direct questions as to his country of origin, I wouldn't assume that Germany IS his country. He may very well live there now, and his screen name certainly evokes a sense of
Naziism, but as to his country being threatened?

Do countries really matter from the perspective of an Islamist?

 

[Volker]

Yeah. Let's negotiate with a lunatic as he swears destruction on an ally.

He doesn't sound like a lunatic. He speaks about history in this letter and he is focusing on facts. I am not aware, he sweared destruction of an ally of you.

Only confused Muslims and ignorant idealists would look at such a pathetic "johnny come lately" letter as a victory.

I don't understand the "johnny come lately" hint. Why you call it pathetic? Is calling people "confused Muslims and ignorant idealist" your way of argumentation?

Something tells me that you would be singing a different tune were it your country being threatened.

American government threatened Iranian government, not vice versa. If Iranian government says, don't attack Iran, otherwise we'll strike back, then this is, how things work.
Israel government and Iranian government did not threaten each other.

You ever stop to think about why this letter went to the States instead of to the EU (the one's who initiated all of this) or the UN?

The Iranian government can talk to EU or UN directly without choosing this way.
There are embassies in Tehran and phone lines in New York. There are talks.

There is nothing sincere about this letter. One only has to look at the authors.

Like the revisionist history thing this is easy to claim, but probably impossible to prove.

As always, the Middle East targets the ultimate scapegoat for the sake of their oppressed civilization as Europe gets a free pass to scoff.

You talk about the part about Iraq? Obviously, the Americans are there.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

The reason of this letter was to initiate direct negotiations with America or at least show the willingness to do so. The United States can agree or they can decline. They have the next draw. Mr. Ahmadinejad could only win by writing this letter.

This letter was nothing but a BS attempt at stalling the US and the UN while trying to garner some kind of allies by making the world feel sorry for them when satan throws the letter in the trash.

 

[Volker]

This letter was nothing but a BS attempt at stalling the US and the UN while trying to garner some kind of allies by making the world feel sorry for them when satan throws the letter in the trash.

I heard this stalling argument before when it was about Iraq. I did not fall for it then and I do not fall for it now. It looks like, you do.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I heard this stalling argument before when it was about Iraq. I did not fall for it then and I do not fall for it now. It looks like, you do.

Theres a difference between action and appeasing. You want to appease these people right up unto the point it's to late. I don't understand the use of the letter. EIther abandon enrichment process or face the consiquences. Why bother sending the letter its a hollow gesture but a man threatening openly to kill millions of people without so much as flinching

 

[Volker]

Theres a difference between action and appeasing.

Yes, obviously there is.

You want to appease these people right up unto the point it's to late.

I don't even want to appease them, because I don't see a need to do so.
If they want to have nuclear power plants, let them have some.

I don't understand the use of the letter. EIther abandon enrichment process or face the consiquences.

I don't think, they will abandon enrichment process. There was a chance to enrich it in Europe, but EU 3 failed to make a reasonable proposal. Then there was a chance to enrich in Russia, but IAEO goofed it by giving the case to Security Council. Giving it back to IAEO would probably better the chances for the Russian solution. They don't have the initial load for Bushehr so far. Even though there is uranium mining in Iran, to import uranium would be good for them. To not let them have imports of uranium would be a possible consequence, but not a justified one in my opinion. But so far Russia is against sanctions.

Why bother sending the letter its a hollow gesture but a man threatening openly to kill millions of people without so much as flinching

What? Who threatened to kill millions of people?

 

[MSgt]

He doesn't sound like a lunatic. He speaks about history in this letter and he is focusing on facts. I am not aware, he sweared destruction of an ally of you.

Yes you are. You are very aware of their public threats towards Israel. This country also happens to be an ally to the government of Germany. His letter was full of revision. Iran has a habit of this. I tire of this obtuse sentiment of yours that Iran has made no threats. He is very much a lunatic. This wonderful letter you hold in such great esteem was accompanied by more threats towards Israel. Maybe you should look into Iran's history for yourself instead of allowing a lunatic preach to you. Study their nuclear program and their deceptive skills to hide it over the last twenty years. Today's Iran is very much the legacy of Khomeini, another lunatic who frequently revised history to suit his agenda of hate and bigotry.

I don't understand the "johnny come lately" hint. Why you call it pathetic? Is calling people "confused Muslims and ignorant idealist" your way of argumentation?

It's my way of trying to understand these kinds of sentiments.

Fact: Iran had no interest in reaching out towards America before their nuclear program came under pressure by half of the world. When they sufferred their earthquake last year, we offerred a hand with no strings attached. That was us reaching out. After Katrina struck, Iran offerred a substantial number of oil barrels in aid...IF we lifted sanctions. Not very honorable. Their letter is "johnny come lately," which means too late and too convenient.

American government threatened Iranian government, not vice versa. If Iranian government says, don't attack Iran, otherwise we'll strike back, then this is, how things work.

....and this is why Americas stands apart from Europe and is the first country called when help is needed. Iran threatened and contiunues to publicly threaten Israel. This is what it means to be an ALLY!

Israel government and Iranian government did not threaten each other.

Does Germany restrict the free flow of information also? The threats towards Israel is all common knowledge. Where have you been?

The Iranian government can talk to EU or UN directly without choosing this way.
There are embassies in Tehran and phone lines in New York. There are talks.

...ummm....not exactly what I said was it? Why did Iran choose to send a leter to America instead of the EU and the UN? The EU will say no and so will the UN. However, as always, these Middle Eastern countries need us as the "great satan" than they want peace and therefore use our "No" to gain strength amongst their ignorant masses.

Like the revisionist history thing this is easy to claim, but probably impossible to prove.

I have no idea what you are talking about. History is history. The events surrounding the Khomeini era are completely distorted inside Iran and so is their use of Cyrus the Great to justify their present day activity.

You talk about the part about Iraq? Obviously, the Americans are there.

And again...I have no idea what you are saying. We have been used as a scapegoat for over thirty years. This proves that it doesn't matter what we do. This is a diseased culture. The last three years in Iraq are nothing. The entire Middle East needs a face lift.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The reason of this letter was to initiate direct negotiations with America or at least show the willingness to do so. The United States can agree or they can decline. They have the next draw. Mr. Ahmadinejad could only win by writing this letter.

Oh ya, and he did such a great job of diplomacy as well:

Dear George Bush,

You are evil come to Islam praise to Allah.


Sincerely,

Ahmadejad

p.s. death to Israel

 

[MSgt]

But so far Russia is against sanctions.

HA! Oh, I forgot, only America gets scapegoated about oil. Russia's and the rest of Europe's interest in the Middle East is purely about sand. :roll:
China also gets oil from Iran. Funny how they both are urging stability.

Come to think about it, France and Germany received oil under the carpet from Saddam's Iraq and they were against the war in Iraq.

Hmmmm....yet so many Europeans whine about America and it's oil.

What? Who threatened to kill millions of people?

Oh, I'm sick of this designed ignorance, no matter what is placed before you by numerous other members. If you wish to debate...debate. Closing your eyes and ears to the very obvious because it doesn't fit the way you were raised is senseless. Let's discuss shall we?

"No government that practices oppression can remain in power for so long"
http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-236/0605111164145011.htm

This from a guy who leads one of the oppressive countries on earth - lunatic.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said here Thursday that without Western support the Israeli regime would fall.
http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-236/0605111164145011.htm

Iran threatened on Tuesday to attack Israel in response to any "evil" act by the United States and said it had enriched uranium to a level close to the maximum compatible with civilian use in power stations.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060503/wl_nm/nuclear_iran_dc_8

So like Saddam and the rest of the world, whenever they get a chance to attack Israel, they will do it in a hopes that it will rally Muslim support for their "holy" mission. Makes a lot of sense - lunatic.

Iran's first target would be Israel in any response to a U.S. attack, a Revolutionary Guards commander said Tuesday, reinforcing the Iranian president's past call for Israel to be "wiped off the map."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060503/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_israel_12

...and again, their thought process is to target Israel in the event of an American attack - lunatic.

JAKARTA, INDONESIA -- First Iran's president said Israel should be wiped off the map. Now Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says Israel is a "regime based on evil" that will one day vanish.

Speaking to a group of cheering students in Indonesia, Ahmadinejad says he's ready to negotiate with the United States and its allies over his country's nuclear program.
http://www.kxly.com/news/index.php?sect_rank=5&section_id=563&story_id=2308

So he threatens to wipe Israel off of the map and then goes into how he wishes to negotiate for nuclear power - lunatic.

The president of Iran again lashed out at Israel on Friday and said it was "heading toward annihilation," just days after Tehran raised fears about its nuclear activities by saying it successfully enriched uranium for the first time. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Israel a "permanent threat" to the Middle East that will "soon" be liberated. He also appeared to again question whether the Holocaust really happened. "Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation," Ahmadinejad said at the opening of a conference in support of the Palestinians. "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm." Ahmadinejad provoked a world outcry in October when he said Israel should be "wiped off the map."
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/14/D8GVSUC0H.html

Hmmm...no mention of IF America attacks them here. Just a flat out forecasting of destroying Israel - lunatic.

Referring to the expulsion of Jews from Europe as a reason behind the establishment of Israel by the Westerners, he said: "They (Westerners), particularly the British, with their anti-Jewish attitude forced groups of Jews to migrate." The presence of Israel in the region which threatens the countries therein is another reason behind the establishment of Israel by the West, he said.
http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-236/0605111164145011.htm

Hmmm...no mention of Germany or France or the rest of the UN that blessed it. More tactics to divide the world and further proof of their deep set bigotry towards Jews. He declares of Europes bigotry, yet declare that they don't belong in Israel either. Israel is not the one that can't get along.

Westerners, using their alleged sympathy for the killing of over six million Jews in the course of World War II, established Israel on land belonging to the Palestinians and support its regime, he continued. "We value the life and dignity of human beings and condemn any massacre of innocent people," he said, and asked why, if indeed the Holocaust is a fact of history, why Israel was established in the East and in Palestinian lands when Jews were killed in Europe. If the Holocaust indeed happened, then those who committed the crime should compensate for it, the Iranian president suggested.
http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-236/0605111164145011.htm

This would be more of that revised history that you state cannot be proven. 1) His use of history is selective, as their was an Israel centuries before their was a Palestinia/Syria....Two) Palestinians never owned it - they merely lived under the control of one empire to the next.....3) I believe your people would be able to deny his feeble attempts to continue this Muslim fantasy that the holocaust never happened or are Germans starting to prescribe to this revision too?.....4) Jews migrated into Europe because of they were chased out of Israel centuries ago.

Also, about the part where he said "those who committed the crime should compensate for it"....I believe that would be your people. Have you compensated? It is far too late to compensate the families that were destroyed and ruined, yet the least your people could do is stand between Iranian lunatics and Israel who merely wish to persecute "Zions" as they have all through history.

 

[MSgt]

Oh ya, and he did such a great job of diplomacy as well:

Dear George Bush,

You are evil come to Islam praise to Allah.


Sincerely,

Ahmadejad

p.s. death to Israel

Summed up beautifully.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Yes, obviously there is.

I don't even want to appease them, because I don't see a need to do so.
If they want to have nuclear power plants, let them have some.



I don't think, they will abandon enrichment process. There was a chance to enrich it in Europe, but EU 3 failed to make a reasonable proposal. Then there was a chance to enrich in Russia, but IAEO goofed it by giving the case to Security Council. Giving it back to IAEO would probably better the chances for the Russian solution. They don't have the initial load for Bushehr so far. Even though there is uranium mining in Iran, to import uranium would be good for them. To not let them have imports of uranium would be a possible consequence, but not a justified one in my opinion. But so far Russia is against sanctions.

What? Who threatened to kill millions of people?

Why do they want to have enrichment capabilities with those power plants? THey are mutualy exclusive unless you get a dual purpose processor to enrich further then power use, a least that is my understanding.


"The existence of this (Israeli) regime is a permanent threat" to the Middle East, he added. "Its existence has harmed the dignity of Islamic nations."


President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Israel a "permanent threat" to the Middle East that will "soon" be liberated. He also appeared to again question whether the Holocaust really happened.


"Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation," Ahmadinejad said at the opening of a conference in support of the Palestinians. "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."


The land of Palestine, he said, referring to the British mandated territory that includes all of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank, "will be freed soon."


"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

 

[Volker]

Yes you are. You are very aware of their public threats towards Israel.

No, I'm not. Are you talking about the speaking choirs?

His letter was full of revision.

I can't find an example.

After Katrina struck, Iran offerred a substantial number of oil barrels in aid...IF we lifted sanctions. Not very honorable.

They can't supply you with oil, if sanctions do not permit this, I guess.

Their letter is "johnny come lately," which means too late and too convenient.

Oh, I see. Well, actually it's not too late, because so far no one was running wild in this case.

Does Germany restrict the free flow of information also? The threats towards Israel is all common knowledge. Where have you been?

Mr. Ahmadinejad's speech in october 2005 was in German media, too.
The reporting was rather differentiated.

...ummm....not exactly what I said was it? Why did Iran choose to send a leter to America instead of the EU and the UN? The EU will say no and so will the UN. However, as always, these Middle Eastern countries need us as the "great satan" than they want peace and therefore use our "No" to gain strength amongst their ignorant masses.

...ummm...exactly, what you said
There are letters, calls and visits quite often. Mr. Ahmadinejad does not have to write a letter. If he wants to come to Soccer World Championship in a few weeks for instance, then his people talk to our people and it will be arranged that he feels comfortable here.
We call it normal diplomatic relationships.

I have no idea what you are talking about. History is history.

I was talking about the letter and the history-related remarks in it.

This is a diseased culture.

Now you sound like a Christian preacher talking about the West

The last three years in Iraq are nothing.

They changed a lot, for instance it showed the limitations of American forces to Middle East people.

 

[MSgt]

Now you sound like a Christian preacher talking about the West

Yes, becausae Christian preachers are so studied in the Middle East. If you are unable to identify the common factors found in all failing or backwards cultures, then you fit right in with Iranians. This is indeed, a diseased culture.

They changed a lot, for instance it showed the limitations of American forces to Middle East people.

:roll: Pathetic. It showed the limitations of what a civilized nation will do. Without this restriction to act better than they, we could easily wipe out the Middle East and not use one nuke to do it. I doubt the Radicals of Islam armed with a nuke will have such decency.

As far as Iraq, Saddam's Regime fell as easy as any of their governments would. All militaries in all nations throughout history will always have to deal with the lingering affects of gorilla warfare. In Iraq, you are equating a car bomb that kills thirty civillians to the hundred insurgents killed daily. Very defeatist of you, but this is what Europeans do - they do and use anything to save face. The terrorists advantage is that they have the entire world to hide in and a never ending supply of targets.

Don't you even know military tactics?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Please tell me with all those quotes you have something to defend them with? Or are you planning on skipping that reply alltogether?