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After New York attack, Trump calls for ending 'Diversity Visa Lottery Program'

Islam is not the problem, the interpretation that radical Muslims are using is the problem.

Maybe so. But that internal dispute is not our problem either.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

Nope. Never said that either.
You are unable to read and understand and are a waste of time I see.

You have no solution. You are unable to post any solution, at all. I have cornered you and you know it. Your only position is that you hate Trump and anything Republican.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

So you think different perspectives and backgrounds come from nationality rather than people?

It's not an either or. People have varied experiences but there are definitely different perspectives that are based on where you grew up and who you interacted with.
 
Because it is highly discriminatory and you don't give a DAMN about whether a country can vet or not because you seem to think Saudi Arabia is trustworthy when they we had terrorists run planes into buildings. I can understand your need to obey your saint Trump

How would things be less discriminatory of Saudi Arabia was on that list as well?
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

Because it is highly discriminatory and you don't give a DAMN about whether a country can vet or not because you seem to think Saudi Arabia is trustworthy when they we had terrorists run planes into buildings. I can understand your need to obey your saint Trump.

Hypocritically you say it isn't your job to determine if Saudi Arabia is trustworthy or not, but you had no problem determining if Obama did something wrong to you.

What do you think that we, the USA should do to help safeguard our citizens? You oppose President Trump trying to limit people coming here without sufficient vetting, you oppose eliminating the Diversity Visa Lottery. I think that you simply are showing your hatred toward President Trump. You will oppose anything that he puts forth. You have no solution. You are against a wall to protect our southern border.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

How do you vet someone with information provided by a government that we are unable to trust? How do you vet someone when their government either can't or won't provide information?

I think you're bringing in another issue. I think King supports Trump's proposed ban of the countries you refer to.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

There are FAR more deaths due to drunk drivers, there are far more deaths due to opioid abuse, there are far more deaths due to gun violence. How extreme are you willing to go to PREVENT all those deaths? Are you willing to ban alcohol, opioids, and guns? If not, then banning Muslims from entering the country isn't the answer either and is EXTREME.

Every community has its own internal issues. Problems that members of said community have, that adversely effect the entire community.
To try, in vain mind you, to equate these internal community issues, with external threats...is opaque and poorly thought out.
And nobody said "banning Muslims". They said, the lottery needs to be ended so that more Islamic Terrorist don't get into the country.
Which leads us to the next point.
You Recently said:
Hypocritically you say it isn't your job to determine if Saudi Arabia...
Sir...may I suggest you may be the last person who should be tossin' accusations like "Hypocritically " out there?
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

That is something that you will not ever know because he won the lottery. Tell me why you think that we should have the Diversity Visa Lottery program. Defend it. How many dead is acceptable?

That is not the way the lottery works. Despite winning it, all winners are checked. So, eight years ago, what would vetting discover? Just another dude in a foreign country. All security protocols apply.

Oh, I don't care if the program exists or not. It's just foolish to attack it over one individual's doing. But it shocks me that you can't see your contradiction....

1) Here we have an immigrant IS wannabe who has been in the country for many, many years and killed 8~10 people with a truck. You, and so many others, have decided that he represents all immigrants who have won the lottery, thus nobody else shall benefit from the lottery because another may take advantage of this gift. Fair enough. Arguments can be made for national security.

2) Of course, when it comes to a good 'ole red blooded American in Vegas who shoots 600 people and kills 60 with his legally purchased weapons, you demand he not define the whole, despite nobody even trying to make it so. It seems to me that you have far more to fear from an idiot who abuses his American rights than some Muslim idiot who can't even plan a decent operation after an entire year's time. Arguments can be made for national security when it comes to the American idiot.

Attacking the program is entirely knee jerk. It is the same thing that some liberals do towards gun control. Rise above the nonsense and try to be a part of the solutions. Killing the program is not the answer. Ending the Second Amendment is not only not the answer, but impossible. Both behaviors are merely distraction. And if you actually care about security, you and so many others need to shove the distractions away from your thinking.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

That is not the way the lottery works. Despite winning it, all winners are checked. So, eight years ago, what would vetting discover? Just another dude in a foreign country. All security protocols apply.

Oh, I don't care if the program exists or not. It's just foolish to attack it over one individual's doing. But it shocks me that you can't see your contradiction....

1) Here we have an immigrant IS wannabe who has been in the country for many, many years and killed 8~10 people with a truck. You, and so many others, have decided that he represents all immigrants who have won the lottery, thus nobody else shall benefit from the lottery because another may take advantage of this gift. Fair enough. Arguments can be made for national security.

2) Of course, when it comes to a good 'ole red blooded American in Vegas who shoots 600 people and kills 60 with his legally purchased weapons, you demand he not define the whole, despite nobody even trying to make it so. It seems to me that you have far more to fear from an idiot who abuses his American rights than some Muslim idiot who can't even plan a decent operation after an entire year's time. Arguments can be made for national security when it comes to the American idiot.

Attacking the program is entirely knee jerk. It is the same thing that some liberals do towards gun control. Rise above the nonsense and try to be a part of the solutions. Killing the program is not the answer. Ending the Second Amendment is not only not the answer, but impossible. Both behaviors are merely distraction. And if you actually care about security, you and so many others need to shove the distractions away from your thinking.

You should read this one, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/diversity-visa-lottery.html
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

I think diversity is fine but not necessarily beneficial. We don't need government programs to engineer it.

Ah. I disagree and agree.

Agree = The program, since 1990, has always been about global PR in the post-Cold War world. But notice that even after 9/11 nobody cared. It's because terrorist organizations plan and they do not plan with the hopes of winning a lottery. This was just some moron that happened to have won eight years ago. However, the program certainly doesn't need to exist. But it also certainly makes those in the world who declare everybody hates us as foolish. There's a lot of people who dream of winning, coming to America, and leaving the **** world behind.

Disagree = Three things have made our country the richest and most powerful nation in history- our rights, capitalism, and immigration. I don't really care to use the word diversity because it tends to skew the point. Diversity is a black guy and an white guy getting hired. Big whoop.

But immigration has been one of the life bloods of America's strength. It is something to be proud of. I don't think many people realize that the United States was the world's first and is really still the only universal nation. This is because we are a nation of immigrants. The irony is that we have also spent centuries looking down upon immigrants, especially during the waves. Immigration is what pushes American prosperity forward. We can see quite clearly the populations around the world that have monopolies on such things like religion, culture, and so on. These civilizations stagnate to worse or less degrees from each other. Immigration introduces new and fresh ideas into a civilization. And given the journey one must make to bring a family across the ocean to the "new land," we generally receive the most intelligent, educated, hard working, and open minded. Why would anybody turn that away? Because some idiot did something? We have plenty more idiots who were born and raised here.

Immigration is entirely beneficial in many ways. It doesn't matter where the U.S. goes to war. Linguists from those countries are already here to help. When it comes to trying to understand cultures that are alien to our own (dictatorships, theology, communism, etc.), our population is full of people who fled such environments and offer insights. When America went to war during World War II, it brought the world's population to bear. And when it comes to understanding the Middle East, do you think the white guy in Idaho is supplying the insight? Our nation of full of experts who immigrated from these countries. They are not only shop keepers or cab drivers, but professors and intel analysts. Americans don't have to go to China, Japan, France, Morocco, or India to eat their cuisines. It's down the street. Just this intermingling of culture expands our minds beyond our safe zones. When it comes to invention, the United States isn't restricted to getting ideas from only within the local culture. Immigration frees the society from conventional and traditional concrete bases, which allows it to grow. Fresh ideas and ingenuity come from the outside and get applied and expands our own thinking. Where does China, Japan, or Russia go for fresh ideas? Unless it's through spy programs or the Internet, they normally don't. They tap into the same old local culture over and over and look towards people that look exactly like them and have the same life experiences. They really do not benefit from immigration. And this is one of the reasons the United States races forward while most trail behind.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

Yes but a country does not always need them. Different economics, different demographic issues, different employment opportunitie available...or not.

When a country stops being a magnet for productive and innovative people.. it generally is the start of its decline.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

wait what?

what don't you understand?.

The purpose of terrorism is to get another country/people afraid (hence "terror") so they change their behavior.

What is one of the main behaviors that the muslim terrorists want to stop? they want to stop the immigration of talented, educated and motivated muslims.. out of their sphere of control.. i.e. they want to stop drain of talented muslims from middle eastern countries toward France, Germany and the US.

When we stop immigrants from these countries because of terrorism.... WE ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT.
 
But this is so often the case of 'diversity"- it is so undiverse. The assumption seems to be that everyone in the world more or a less values are of a good western liberal democrat, with differing styles of cuisine.

No, just trying to broaden the horizons of the biggot. Cuisine is an obvious example of how other cultures have enriched America. Other examples would likely go over most people's heads.

The fact is that "American culture" has been substantially influenced by its "melting pot" roots.
 
Link

I think ending this program would be "prudent".

Question: Is it "protection" or "cowardice" that makes a football player wear padding and a helmet?

Meh, I prefer rugby - no padding whatsoever, no stopping and starting BS when one team scores, possession changes, etc, and tackling is a hell of a lot safer (going into it with your shoulder, grappling to make your target lose their balance).
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

MSgt said:
That is not the way the lottery works. Despite winning it, all winners are checked.



I read it...

At noon on May 15, millions of people around the world will click on the State Department website to find out if they are among them.

Even then, a visa is not guaranteed. Winners are interviewed, undergo background checks and medical exams. Many are eliminated for failing to meet requirements and deadlines.

I'm not sure what your link was supposed to do for you. As I stated, "despite winning it, all winners are checked." He was vetted. There was nothing there to eliminate him. But also from your link I read that "the program contributes about 5 percent of the approximately one million legal immigrants that enter the United States each year." You are worried about the 5 percent, simply because eight years later one immigrant turned idiot?

Like I stated, it is funny how a Vegas red-blooded American can shoot 600 people and kill 60, but this clown who runs over eight people, must represent the dastardly immigrant problem of this program (which only provides for 5% of the million immigrants that enter the U.S every year.) Your focus on the program is a distraction. Ending it will do nothing. It's simple knee jerk.
 
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Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

How about this, you stop calling my family and other people like them ‘crapola’ and I’ll stop calling you out on it.

The countries on the list are those that have few migrants to the US. Usually poor, and the requirements to get through the program means America gets the cream of those other countries. On average, migrants to the US have better jobs, own more businesses and commit less crimes than native born Americans. We’re also tested on America and I can tell you from experience that we’re more familiar with American civics than most Americans too :)

The '‘crapola’ reference was an embellishment based on the lottery winner who murdered 8 people in NYC, never heard of this diversity lottery until terrorist attack.
Listened to NPR this morning and they talked about subject in depth, there was a certain vetting process involved & I didn't get the impression there was last night.
Anyway IMO the waves of immigration over the last 20 years & to a smaller extent the last 50 years both legal & illegal have not been good for the nation as a whole, that's my concern for the country I'm doing fine!

Consider California where Mrs. Clinton got all the votes she needs for a plurality:
Clinton 8,753,798
Trump 4,483,810

So Clinton won the plurality one state California by 4,270,000 votes
While Trump won the plurality in the other 49 states by over 1,500,000 votes

A state that Reagan, Nixon & Bush #1 won rather easily now is a state with a 62% minority population.
40% Latino
16% Asain
6% black

'Two Democratic legislators in the state, Senate president Kevin de Leon and assembly speaker Anthony Rendon, issued a statement about the election results:'
"Today, we woke up feeling like strangers in a foreign land, because yesterday Americans expressed their views on a pluralistic and democratic society that are
clearly inconsistent with the values of the people of California," State Sen. Leader Kevin de León and Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon said in a joint statement,
according to ABC News.'

'In the Spring of 2019, Californians will go to the polls in a historic vote to decide by referendum if California should exit the Union, a #Calexit vote.'

if immigration continues till the rest of the country looks more & more like California, what will hold it together. I like the idea of the 'raise act ' initiated by
Senator Cotton & recently mentioned by Trump.
 
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Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

That is not the way the lottery works. Despite winning it, all winners are checked. So, eight years ago, what would vetting discover? Just another dude in a foreign country. All security protocols apply.

Oh, I don't care if the program exists or not. It's just foolish to attack it over one individual's doing. But it shocks me that you can't see your contradiction....

1) Here we have an immigrant IS wannabe who has been in the country for many, many years and killed 8~10 people with a truck. You, and so many others, have decided that he represents all immigrants who have won the lottery, thus nobody else shall benefit from the lottery because another may take advantage of this gift. Fair enough. Arguments can be made for national security.

2) Of course, when it comes to a good 'ole red blooded American in Vegas who shoots 600 people and kills 60 with his legally purchased weapons, you demand he not define the whole, despite nobody even trying to make it so. It seems to me that you have far more to fear from an idiot who abuses his American rights than some Muslim idiot who can't even plan a decent operation after an entire year's time. Arguments can be made for national security when it comes to the American idiot.

Attacking the program is entirely knee jerk. It is the same thing that some liberals do towards gun control. Rise above the nonsense and try to be a part of the solutions. Killing the program is not the answer. Ending the Second Amendment is not only not the answer, but impossible. Both behaviors are merely distraction. And if you actually care about security, you and so many others need to shove the distractions away from your thinking.

Maybe one day one of your family members will be part of a terrorist attack, then maybe start hearing the part where muslims say kill all infidels. And this is a good saying, if I give you a bowl of grapes but tell you only one is poisonous, how many would you eat? Or one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
Or are you saying we should pay to bring them here, put them on government handouts (tax payers money), give them a shot at the American dream, so they can show us appreciation by killing our fellow Americans.
I think Trump is right, only allow immigrants in under a merit system, why should we take people that don’t want to assimilate to America not Americans assimilate to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

what don't you understand?.

The purpose of terrorism is to get another country/people afraid (hence "terror") so they change their behavior.

What is one of the main behaviors that the muslim terrorists want to stop? they want to stop the immigration of talented, educated and motivated muslims.. out of their sphere of control.. i.e. they want to stop drain of talented muslims from middle eastern countries toward France, Germany and the US.

When we stop immigrants from these countries because of terrorism.... WE ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT.

Errr...ya...ok...:shock:
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

Maybe one day one of your family members will be part of a terrorist attack, then maybe start hearing the part where muslims say kill all infidels. And this is a good saying, if I give you a bowl of grapes but tell you only one is poisonous, how many would you eat? Or one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
Or are you saying we should pay to bring them here, put them on government handouts (tax payers money), give them a shot at the American dream, so they can show us appreciation by killing our fellow Americans.
I think Trump is right, only allow immigrants in under a merit system, why should we take people that don’t want to assimilate to America not Americans assimilate to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Son, try to embrace your big boy feelings. I have been in close proximity of actual terrorists (not what you think is a terrorist). I have handled combatant prisoners whose role was to sow terrorism. I have personally killed terrorists. Who are you?

Your "one day maybe a family member will die" doesn't have the impact you think it does. Instead of knee jerking like a moron, I choose to understand the problem. The best thing any troop can do if he ever gets an extremist in his sights is to pull the trigger. Making prisoners out of them only serves to create martyrs and it is a political hassle for us. So, no, I do not suggest that we bring the "terrorist" to the United States and set them up in a home next to you so that we can teach him how to garden. Instead of knee jerking and drowning in emotional ignorance, contribute.

Perhaps your emotional tirade helped you miss the part where eight years ago, when this guy won the lottery, he was not a terrorist. But by all means, swim within the shallow, ignore what is really going on, and inadvertently encourage a never-ending problem.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

MSgt...how do you know he wasn't a terrorist when he got here?
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

Or, if you really want to eliminate the problem, instead of surrendering your rights and freedoms in the name of safety, how about change your foreign policy...

Change our foreign policy to resemble whose? France's? Or Belgium's? Or Spain's? Or Britain's? Or Pakistan's? Or India's? Or the Philippines'? Or Indonesia's? Or Canada's? Or the Netherlands'? Or Kenya's? Or Tunisia's? Or Iraq's? Or Turkey's? Or Algeria's? Or Syria's? Or Israel's? Which country? Because all of these countries (and a hundred others I could have listed) have in one way or another been affected by Islamist-inspired terrorism. Notably absent from the list: Japan. Why? Because the Japanese aren't idiots who see it in their national interest to import people from Uzbekistan with a "diversity" lottery.

You say we need to change our foreign policy, and I agree in this sense: We need to stop trying to remake the planet in our image. There are institutional and cultural differences between a Western-style democracy such as ours and an Islamic, tribal-oriented backwater such as Afghanistan that no amount of troops or cash will alter. We should just accept and respect that fact. Say what you want about Steve Bannon, but at least he has the intelligence to understand that. It's time to wake up, smell the roses, and realize we are NOT a global village created in the image of Thomas Jefferson.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

Change our foreign policy to resemble whose? France's? Or Belgium's? Or Spain's? Or Britain's? Or Pakistan's? Or India's? Or the Philippines'? Or Indonesia's? Or Canada's? Or the Netherlands'? Or Kenya's? Or Tunisia's? Or Iraq's? Or Turkey's? Or Algeria's? Or Syria's? Or Israel's? Which country? Because all of these countries (and a hundred others I could have listed) have in one way or another been affected by Islamist-inspired terrorism. Notably absent from the list: Japan. Why? Because the Japanese aren't idiots who see it in their national interest to import people from Uzbekistan with a "diversity" lottery.

You say we need to change our foreign policy, and I agree in this sense: We need to stop trying to remake the planet in our image. There are institutional and cultural differences between a Western-style democracy such as ours and an Islamic, tribal-oriented backwater such as Afghanistan that no amount of troops or cash will alter. We should just accept and respect that fact. Say what you want about Steve Bannon, but at least he has the intelligence to understand that. It's time to wake up, smell the roses, and realize we are NOT a global village created in the image of Thomas Jefferson.

hehe...funny part is, the majority of those countries you have listed are American allies, dragged into this mess because of that. :) Europe gets hit harder because it's easier to get to, and it's interesting you bring up the terrorism experienced in Islamic countries, where it would have not nearly as much to do with "foreign" policy.

But despite that, I agree with you on a lot of what you've said here, you guys should stop going into these places and getting involved. The problem is that bomb making is very lucrative, so long as you guys never stop fighting, while at the same time there is no better recruiting tool than American bombs, so I guess you're kind of stuck until something changes. But I don't think that should be taken out on the majority of folks from these regions who are not interested in terrorism at all, except maybe to escape from it.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

I read it...



I'm not sure what your link was supposed to do for you. As I stated, "despite winning it, all winners are checked." He was vetted. There was nothing there to eliminate him. But also from your link I read that "the program contributes about 5 percent of the approximately one million legal immigrants that enter the United States each year." You are worried about the 5 percent, simply because eight years later one immigrant turned idiot?

Like I stated, it is funny how a Vegas red-blooded American can shoot 600 people and kill 60, but this clown who runs over eight people, must represent the dastardly immigrant problem of this program (which only provides for 5% of the million immigrants that enter the U.S every year.) Your focus on the program is a distraction. Ending it will do nothing. It's simple knee jerk.

Did you read the part about people buying their way into marriages to come here with the visa lottery winner? This program needs to be eliminated. Merit based needs to replace it. It's a travesty. I do not see how anyone can support such a program.
 
Re: The Visa Lottery Program - Post Latest NYC Terrorist Attack

Ah. I disagree and agree.

Agree = The program, since 1990, has always been about global PR in the post-Cold War world. But notice that even after 9/11 nobody cared. It's because terrorist organizations plan and they do not plan with the hopes of winning a lottery. This was just some moron that happened to have won eight years ago. However, the program certainly doesn't need to exist. But it also certainly makes those in the world who declare everybody hates us as foolish. There's a lot of people who dream of winning, coming to America, and leaving the **** world behind.

Disagree = Three things have made our country the richest and most powerful nation in history- our rights, capitalism, and immigration. I don't really care to use the word diversity because it tends to skew the point. Diversity is a black guy and an white guy getting hired. Big whoop.

But immigration has been one of the life bloods of America's strength. It is something to be proud of. I don't think many people realize that the United States was the world's first and is really still the only universal nation. This is because we are a nation of immigrants. The irony is that we have also spent centuries looking down upon immigrants, especially during the waves. Immigration is what pushes American prosperity forward. We can see quite clearly the populations around the world that have monopolies on such things like religion, culture, and so on. These civilizations stagnate to worse or less degrees from each other. Immigration introduces new and fresh ideas into a civilization. And given the journey one must make to bring a family across the ocean to the "new land," we generally receive the most intelligent, educated, hard working, and open minded. Why would anybody turn that away? Because some idiot did something? We have plenty more idiots who were born and raised here.

Immigration is entirely beneficial in many ways. It doesn't matter where the U.S. goes to war. Linguists from those countries are already here to help. When it comes to trying to understand cultures that are alien to our own (dictatorships, theology, communism, etc.), our population is full of people who fled such environments and offer insights. When America went to war during World War II, it brought the world's population to bear. And when it comes to understanding the Middle East, do you think the white guy in Idaho is supplying the insight? Our nation of full of experts who immigrated from these countries. They are not only shop keepers or cab drivers, but professors and intel analysts. Americans don't have to go to China, Japan, France, Morocco, or India to eat their cuisines. It's down the street. Just this intermingling of culture expands our minds beyond our safe zones. When it comes to invention, the United States isn't restricted to getting ideas from only within the local culture. Immigration frees the society from conventional and traditional concrete bases, which allows it to grow. Fresh ideas and ingenuity come from the outside and get applied and expands our own thinking. Where does China, Japan, or Russia go for fresh ideas? Unless it's through spy programs or the Internet, they normally don't. They tap into the same old local culture over and over and look towards people that look exactly like them and have the same life experiences. They really do not benefit from immigration. And this is one of the reasons the United States races forward while most trail behind.

You misunderstand me. I'm a big fan of immigration. I understand the benefits of immigration. My issue is with diversity and government involvement in it. We gain from effective people who immigrate here. It doesn't matter their national origin. It is the diversity that doesn't matter, not the immigration.
 
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